Timmy’s thread for general discussion

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

The abundance of complaing and dearth of solutions continues, I see. Fun to watch Tim steamroll some mooks in here with actual facts, while the mooks use right wing Twitter trolls as their info sources. 

I find it sad. They really think mass deportation would be a good thing and perfectly workable. They’re not living on the same planet. 

[jerryskids 6,567]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

The abundance of complaing and dearth of solutions continues, I see. Fun to watch Tim steamroll some mooks in here with actual facts, while the mooks use right wing Twitter trolls as their info sources. 

To be fair, to Tim the ongoing influx of illegals is a fait accompli, and deportation is a non-starter, so it kinda takes away the two most obvious and effective solutions.   

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

It’s like the leftists who magically believe they can pass a law making all guns illegal and they will just disappear. It’s the exact same logic. 

[Fnord 2,051]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

To be fair, to Tim the ongoing influx of illegals is a fait accompli, and deportation is a non-starter, so it kinda takes away the two most obvious and effective solutions.   

I'm not commenting on just that; he's owned them on a few topics now. And will likely continue to do so. 

[Fnord 2,051]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I find it sad. They really think mass deportation would be a good thing and perfectly workable. They’re not living on the same planet. 

What goes unsaid is that many of them would be completely fine with a police state as long as said state was enforcing THEIR preferred policies and grievances.

[jerryskids 6,567]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s like the leftists who magically believe they can pass a law making all guns illegal and they will just disappear. It’s the exact same logic. 

You seem to follow a faulty dichotomy logic:  if we can't deport all of the illegal aliens, we shouldn't do it at all.  Do you see the fault in this logic?

The gun analogy is OK, but the problem is that the more onerous you make gun ownership, the more you affect law-abiding gun owners, not the criminals or psychos who don't really care about laws.  That analogy doesn't apply to illegal aliens.

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

7 minutes ago, Fnord said:

The abundance of complaing and dearth of solutions continues, I see. Fun to watch Tim steamroll some mooks in here with actual facts, while the mooks use right wing Twitter trolls as their info sources. 

I used the center for American progress dumbphuck. What facts, that he thinks we have the same amount of illegals here today that we had in 2010? You people are so economically illiterate it’s not worth the time. Every illegal we add to our population puts a strain on our healthcare system, educational system, social services, housing the list goes on. Yoy have zero argument. 

[Dozer FBG 324]

Yeah you guys! Quit responding to Timmy in a thread titled Timmy’s Thread!!!

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.  Are the numbers overwhelming, no, though they are big.  A decade ago folks where unanimously conceeding the number of illegals was north of 10 million.  In the last decade I know of no one who would argue there have been less than 15 million more.  That puts us at 25 million or more illegals. A big number but not prohibitive, unless one hopes it is prohibitive and does not want to examine the number.

There are around 800,000 law enforcement officers in the U.S.  That means there are around 33 illegals per law enforcement officer.  That number does not seem so daunting.  If each law enforcement officer identified, detained and began processing one illegal per month the problem would be solved in three years.  Now that is at a very manageable rate, but frankly as some come in family units the deportation of one would have the rest of the family unit going with that one were it the head of household or the mother.  They would self deport to hold their family unit together.  Now for the singles, they may have a nice life, an apartment, some clothes, tools, recreational equipment like boats and a decent truck and a t.v. and a stereo.  These things are not paid off and are subject to repossession if payments are not made.  Imagine then the illegal who knows if he is next to be scooped up will lose all his equity in his possessions due to non-opayment.  Might that illegal not risk the loss and instead seek to consolidate what they might and self deport.  The answer is yes.  it is an economic decision to come here and it is also one to leave.

Now some will say this is all hard-hearted or even heartless.  Frankly that is the message that needs to get broadcast all over the world.  The U.S. is heartless to invaders.  Your treks, your sacrifices will be in vain.  Do not come.  At the same time we need to establish reasonable guest worker programs more generous in number than is the current proactice.  We also need to expand the number of legal entrants every year.  Finally we need to make a second illegal entry punishable by death.

On announcing a start date for such policies the run for the bordeer would be epic and the turn around on the illegal grail would be like the tide receding.

 

This is very much doable.

 

 

[Strike 5,203]

44 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

But it’s true isn’t it? If we have 15 million people here ( @Dizkneelande says a lot more) how are we to remove them?) You’re not a stupid guy; it’s an unrealistic goal. 

No it's not true.  Again, starting with the notion that we have to deport EVERY one of them throws the notion of "serious" discussion out the window.  We don't.  You should rename this thread the Tim reframes every issue and continues to spout his opinion and doesn't give a sh#t about opposing viewpoints.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

It’s funny you guys think Trump actually wants to get rid of illegal immigration.

Where do you think he’s going to get cheap labor for his hotels and golf courses, among other uses?

And that’s true of many large businesses and in several huge sectors of the economy like agriculture, child care, hospitality etc.

I’m not saying do nothing, but the concept that Trump—or really most any politician—actually wants to eradicate illegal immigration is deeply naive.

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

To work my program we would need an influx of Administrative Law Judges to handles the cases.  5000 new, additional ones ought to do.  Each one working 200 days per year handling 10 cases per day would get 10 million matters processed per year.  Now starting pay for ALJ's averages around $75,000 per year but with benefits and what not is closer to $100,000 per year.  That means we would need 5 billion dollars to fund the program for the next three years.    That could come from foreign add to difficult allies or it could come from the Homeland security budget which was 97 billion last year..

[Strike 5,203]

11 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

To work my program we would need an influx of Administrative Law Judges to handles the cases.  5000 new, additionaly ones out to do.  Each one working 200 days per year handling 10 cases per day would get 10 million matters processed per year.  Now starting pay for ALJ's averages around $75,000 per year but with benefits and what not is closer to $100,000 per year.  That means we would need 5 billion dollars to fund the program for the next three years.    That could come from foreign add to difficult allies or it could come from the Homeland security budget which was 97 billion last year..

As Jerry noted, we are paying illegals over 100k right now.  Just use that money.

[jerryskids 6,567]

12 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

To work my program we would need an influx of Administrative Law Judges to handles the cases.  5000 new, additionaly ones out to do.  Each one working 200 days per year handling 10 cases per day would get 10 million matters processed per year.  Now starting pay for ALJ's averages around $75,000 per year but with benefits and what not is closer to $100,000 per year.  That means we would need 5 billion dollars to fund the program for the next three years.    That could come from foreign add to difficult allies or it could come from the Homeland security budget which was 97 billion last year..

Timmy told me that $60B for Ukraine is mice nuts, so $5B is 1/12 of mice nuts$#@!

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

Sorry guys it’s completely unworkable. Come up with all the plans you want, none of them are ever going to work. 
 

But the part that really depresses me is that anyone would find this a desirable goal to begin with. I agree, reluctantly, that we need to secure our borders because these people are coming in too large numbers at the present time. I agree, reluctantly, that we need to to tighten things up. But I hate it. It goes against everything America stands for, our whole purpose for being a nation. We’re supposed to be the New World, the refuge for people escaping poverty and slavery. That and that alone justified our seizing this land from the Indians. That and that alone justified our terrible actions over the years. 
 

We can’t have open borders. I get it. But for anyone to WANT to deport millions of people, to think that this is a desirable goal, for anyone who wants to send a message to the world’s wretched people that they’re not welcome here…I think some of you have lost sight of what it truly means to be an American. We might as well place a bomb on the Statue of Liberty and blow it up. 

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sorry guys it’s completely unworkable. Come up with all the plans you want, none of them are ever going to work. Your fear is that it clearly is very workable.
 

But the part that really depresses me is that anyone would find this a desirable goal to begin with. I agree, reluctantly, that we need to secure our borders because these people are coming in too large numbers at the present time. I agree, reluctantly, that we need to to tighten things up. But I hate it. It goes against everything America stands for, our whole purpose for being a nation. We’re supposed to be the New World, the refuge for people escaping poverty and slavery. That and that alone justified our seizing this land from the IndiansNothing justifies what we did.  The course of history taught us then that might made right.   We acted under the mores of the time, but it was not justified.. That and that alone justified our terrible actions over the years. Nothing justifies our actions over the years.  They are what they were, the good and the bad. Justification is something your liberal bleeding heart graves, but it is not an element of the real world.  It is a construct of man, and ultimately a stupid one.
 

We can’t have open borders. I get it. But for anyone to want  redognizing necessity is different from wanting to do something.  It is being willing to do the difficult.to deport millions of people, to think that this is a desirable goal, for anyone who wants to send a message to the world’s wretched people that they’re not welcome here…I think some of you have lost sight of what it truly means to be an American. We might as well place a bomb on the Statue of Liberty and blow it up. I would not blow it up.  It is a decent statue and a inspiring poe reflecting 19th century midweestern values.  Never was it adopted U.s. policy.  Romanticize it all you want but you would not romanticize much else from that era.

 

[Horseman 2,367]

16 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sorry guys it’s completely unworkable. Come up with all the plans you want, none of them are ever going to work. 

Sorry guys.  No serious discussion here.  Don't bother even responding.  This is where you ALWAYS end up with Tim.

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

9 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

 

With regard to your first response: let me correct my thinking. Yes it is workable, theoretically, if we want to give up being a free society. Since I don’t, for me it’s unworkable. 
 

Beyond that it’s politically unworkable because you will never get enough of the public to allow you the 60 hardline Republicans in the Senate, a majority of hardline Republicans in the House, and a hardline Republican President, all in office at the same time, that would be necessary to pass such a plan. 

[listen2me 23 1,825]

28 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sorry guys it’s completely unworkable. Come up with all the plans you want, none of them are ever going to work. 
 

But the part that really depresses me is that anyone would find this a desirable goal to begin with. I agree, reluctantly, that we need to secure our borders because these people are coming in too large numbers at the present time. I agree, reluctantly, that we need to to tighten things up. But I hate it. It goes against everything America stands for, our whole purpose for being a nation. We’re supposed to be the New World, the refuge for people escaping poverty and slavery. That and that alone justified our seizing this land from the Indians. That and that alone justified our terrible actions over the years. 
 

We can’t have open borders. I get it. But for anyone to WANT to deport millions of people, to think that this is a desirable goal, for anyone who wants to send a message to the world’s wretched people that they’re not welcome here…I think some of you have lost sight of what it truly means to be an American. We might as well place a bomb on the Statue of Liberty and blow it up. 

I understand your position.   Where would you get all your cheap labor?   You know the people you didn't care who were vaxed.  Yet said you would fire rail workers if they didn't comply.  

[listen2me 23 1,825]

13 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Sorry guys.  No serious discussion here.  Don't bother even responding.  This is where you ALWAYS end up with Tim.

This.  When Tim doesn't want to discuss he just says you are wrong puts a stamp on it like he is the one in charge.  It is quite comical.  

"Oh you are coming up with ideas and giving opinions?  Nope.  Your proposal wont work.  End of discussion".    

Lol

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

With regard to your first response: let me correct my thinking. Yes it is workable, theoretically, if we want to give up being a free society. Since I don’t, for me it’s unworkable. 
 

Beyond that it’s politically unworkable because you will never get enough of the public to allow you the 60 hardline Republicans in the Senate, a majority of hardline Republicans in the House, and a hardline Republican President, all in office at the same time, that would be necessary to pass such a plan. 

The only thing that could cause such a wild swing would be a few more years of Democrat control or a single internal terrorist attack attributable to the non-existant border.  Everyday i wonder when our enemies, who are legion, will strike again.

 

 

In the meantime, and to offset my yin with some yang and the sins of my wang, i give you Arlo Guthrie, an acquaintance of my younger days.  Arlo Guthrie - Deportee (Live at Farm Aid 2000) (youtube.com)

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

8 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

This.  When Tim doesn't want to discuss he just says you are wrong puts a stamp on it like he is the one in charge.  It is quite comical.  

"Oh you are coming up with ideas and giving opinions?  Nope.  Your proposal wont work.  End of discussion".    

Lol

Well not quite. I explain why it won’t work. 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

1 minute ago, Engorgeous George said:

The only thing that could cause such a wild swing would be a few more years of Democrat control or a single internal terrorist attack attributable to the non-existant border.  Everyday i wonder when our enemies, who are legion, will strike again.

 

 

In the meantime, and to offset my yin with some yang and the sins of my wang, i give you Arlo Guthrie, an acquaintance of my younger days.  Arlo Guthrie - Deportee (Live at Farm Aid 2000) (youtube.com)

Live that song. His dad wrote it right? 
 

Did you really know Arlo? Very cool, big fan. 

[Strike 5,203]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well not quite. I explain why it won’t work. 

No you don't.  In fact, you admitted to EG that what he proposed WOULD work.  ROFLMAO at your linguistic gymnastics.  At the end of the day you don't want "serious" discussion.  You want to get on your soapbox and lecture us.

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

14 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Live that song. His dad wrote it right? 
 

Did you really know Arlo? Very cool, big fan. 

His Dad did write it.  And yes I had beers and more with him on several occassions.  He was a friend of a friend.  He never sought me out when he was in town, but he sought out my friend and we were often a package deal.  He knew my name.

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

• Tim believes a clear message to illegals is cruel.  i believe it cruel to allow them to spend thier life's savings to march 2000 miles while being preyed upon and raped to get to a country where they will continue to be victimized.  They are hearing a lie and that lie brings them in search of a land which neveer existed.  The streets around here are not paved with gold.  This is not the land of milk and honey.  There is no pie in the sky when you die..

 

They need a new dream, a dream of reformation of their own lands or of revolution, our example to the world. Dreams of escape beyond tyranny are folly.  Tyranny is everywhere.

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

7 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

His Dad did write it.  And yes I had beers and more with him one several occassions.  He was a friend of a friend.  He never sought me out when he was in town, but he sought out my friend and we were often a package deal.  He knew my name.

That is very cool. 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

• Tim believes a clear message to illegals is cruel.  i believe it cruel to allow them to spend thier life's savings to march 2000 miles while being preyed upon and raped to get to a country where they will continue to be victimized.  They are hearing a lie and that lie brings them in search of a land which neveer existed.  The streets around here are not paved with gold.  This is not the land of milk and honey.  There is no pie in the sky when you die..

 

They need a new dream, a dream of reformation of their own lands or of revolution, our example to the world. Dreams of escape beyond tyranny are folly.  Tyranny is everywhere.

It’s not a lie. This land did exist for my grandparents. It continues to exist for millions of immigrants both documented and undocumented, and hopefully will continue to exist despite the efforts to dismantle it. 

[listen2me 23 1,825]

18 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s not a lie. This land did exist for my grandparents. It continues to exist for millions of immigrants both documented and undocumented, and hopefully will continue to exist despite the efforts to dismantle it. 

My great grandparents both came over on the boat.  They went through Ellis Island.  They were given nothing.  

[seafoam1 2,803]

32 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s not a lie. This land did exist for my grandparents. It continues to exist for millions of immigrants both documented and undocumented, and hopefully will continue to exist despite the efforts to dismantle it. 

Legal and illegal.

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

1 hour ago, listen2me 23 said:

My great grandparents both came over on the boat.  They went through Ellis Island.  They were given nothing.  

Neither were mine; that’s not what I’m talking about. 

[BrahmaBulls 628]

4 hours ago, Horseman said:

It's only 300,000 bus loads.  1,000 buses a day for less than a year.  Quit being a drama queen.  

Those MFers will pile 10 of themselves into a pickup truck.  We could easily just let them lay on top of each in other in airplanes,, boats, buses or whatever and ship them out.

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

10 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

The only thing that could cause such a wild swing would be a few more years of Democrat control or a single internal terrorist attack attributable to the non-existant border.  Everyday i wonder when our enemies, who are legion, will strike again.

 

 

 

I’ve been busy all day so I didn’t get a chance to respond to this. But the truth is that neither of those events would cause the swing that you need. The key is that you would need 60 hardline conservative Senators in favor of mass deportation. Just getting 60 GOP Senators would be quite an accomplishment and really unlikely; getting 60 hardline (basically meaning MAGA) Republicans is, in my estimation impossible. 

With regard to the two possibilities you raised, certainly more Democrats will eventually lead to more Republicans- that’s how this country works, we swing back and forth on the pendulum. But 60 is unlikely and 60 MAGA is not happening. As far as a terrorist attack, that could certainly lead to much greater power in the hands of the government (something that I would think libertarians such as yourself would be opposed to) but I doubt it would ever lead to enough power to enforce the “solutions” for undocumented immigrants that you are proposing. 
 

So we’re back to this is an unworkable idea, never going to happen. These folks are here to stay, let’s come up with a solution that does not involve trying to deport all of them. 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

12 hours ago, jerryskids said:

You seem to follow a faulty dichotomy logic:  if we can't deport all of the illegal aliens, we shouldn't do it at all.  Do you see the fault in this logic?

The gun analogy is OK, but the problem is that the more onerous you make gun ownership, the more you affect law-abiding gun owners, not the criminals or psychos who don't really care about laws.  That analogy doesn't apply to illegal aliens.

1. I don’t. We do deport some undocumented people right now. But if we ever try to do it in large numbers the cost will be enormous. And with no benefit whatsoever (IMO). 
 

2. Of course the analogy applies. The vast majority of undocumented immigrants do not commit violent crimes. They are hard working people, essential to our economy. The more onerous you make conditions for undocumented immigrants, the more you affect the honest ones who don’t commit crimes and contribute heavily to our society. The analogy is spot on. 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

9 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

Legal and illegal.

The reason I don’t use that term is because it is dehumanizing. A person cannot be illegal. An act is illegal, not a person. In Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union there were people classified as illegal. That’s not something we should ever emulate here. 

[seafoam1 2,803]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

The reason I don’t use that term is because it is dehumanizing. A person cannot be illegal. An act is illegal, not a person. In Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union there were people classified as illegal. That’s not something we should ever emulate here. 

There is no doubt that they are illegal. Sugarcoat it all you want. But the correct term for them is "illegal". 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/illegal-immigrants-biden-admin-amount-greater-population-36-states

7.2M illegals entered the US under Biden admin, an amount greater than population of 36 states

[Maximum Overkill 1,740]

 

[supermike80 1,804]

16 hours ago, Strike said:

No you don't.  In fact, you admitted to EG that what he proposed WOULD work.  ROFLMAO at your linguistic gymnastics.  At the end of the day you don't want "serious" discussion.  You want to get on your soapbox and lecture us.

LOL I am enjoying this thread because yes, that's what Tim is and what Tim does.  He's smarter than you.....all of you.  Your opinions are wrong...always and it's just cause you're not as smart as him.   But you all keep coming in here looking for a debate.  There is none with Timmy.  Hes right , you're wrong..always.  

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

14 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

LOL I am enjoying this thread because yes, that's what Tim is and what Tim does.  He's smarter than you.....all of you.  Your opinions are wrong...always and it's just cause you're not as smart as him.   But you all keep coming in here looking for a debate.  There is none with Timmy.  Hes right , you're wrong..always.  

Also, when you use his leftist sources to show him what an idiot he truly is, he takes his ball and goes home. Total clown.

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

2 hours ago, supermike80 said:

LOL I am enjoying this thread because yes, that's what Tim is and what Tim does.  He's smarter than you.....all of you.  Your opinions are wrong...always and it's just cause you're not as smart as him.   But you all keep coming in here looking for a debate.  There is none with Timmy.  Hes right , you're wrong..always.  

Glad you’re enjoying the thread. But I don’t think I’m smarter than all of them. I do think I’m smarter than YOU.