“I Can’t Breathe” Yet another black man dies at the hands of police

[wiffleball 4,686]

Ya know, not for nuthin',

But I believe it's not "breathe".

 

It's "Breve"

 

I could be wrong, you should probably Axe someone. 

[Nomad99 478]

2 hours ago, TimHauck said:

It’s racism if the prejudging is based on race.

Yes words do have definitions.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

racism: a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

also  : behavior or attitudes that reflect and foster this belief : racial discrimination or prejudice

 

So yeah, thanks for admitting you’re describing racism here.

I couldn't have described Detroit any better

[double tour 90]

3 hours ago, TimHauck said:

It’s racism if the prejudging is based on race.

Yes words do have definitions.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

racism: a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

also  : behavior or attitudes that reflect and foster this belief : racial discrimination or prejudice

 

So yeah, thanks for admitting you’re describing racism here.

Pathetic. 

[MLCKAA 421]

20 hours ago, TimHauck said:

I think there’s a difference between police behavior based on someone being a thug based on past crimes, and police behavior arresting someone for doing something thuggish.   This dude was clearly belligerent and fighting back, IIRC Floyd wasn’t really fighting much.

Fighting?  No, not if you mean trying to assault the officers.  Floyd did not do that.  
Hysterical, uncooperative, irrational resistance describes how Floyd behaved.

[MLCKAA 421]

17 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Of course it’s a tremendous issue. When have I not acknowledged that? It’s a terrible issue, it’s caused by poverty and by the problems with black culture stemming back to Jim Crow and before that, slavery. The whole point of Critical Race Theory and the 1619 Project is to acknowledge how our terrible history has led to this problem. Once we do that we can work on trying to fix it. 

You’re so close to understanding what ails America and so far from it at the same time.

You choose the racial lenses.  And it is definitely a choice.

If you would just deliberately look at things without the lens of racism, you would see how income inequality and financial disparities are THE social problem in America.  Everything else is a distraction.  Unfortunately, you lap it up like a kitten at a saucer.

You’re obviously a bright guy.  Maybe you can convince yourself to look for something else in all of this.  Just as an experiment in personal development, try to look at any of the social issues that anger you without questioning racial elements of the issue and instead considering how financial inequality influences it.

[jonmx 1,764]

1 hour ago, MLCKAA said:

You’re so close to understanding what ails America and so far from it at the same time.

You choose the racial lenses.  And it is definitely a choice.

If you would just deliberately look at things without the lens of racism, you would see how income inequality and financial disparities are THE social problem in America.  Everything else is a distraction.  Unfortunately, you lap it up like a kitten at a saucer.

You’re obviously a bright guy.  Maybe you can convince yourself to look for something else in all of this.  Just as an experiment in personal development, try to look at any of the social issues that anger you without questioning racial elements of the issue and instead considering how financial inequality influences it.

 

And income inequity is just a symptom of the problem.  Our problem is our institutions have become too powerful and too corrupt.  For instance, the biggest factor which drives the federal reserve descion-making process are wage increases.   If the economy is too strong which supports wage increases, it triggers rate increases to slow down the economy and keep wages low.   We are allowing all these unelected unregulated institutions to make the most important rules and regulations which control our everyday lives far more than what our Congress does.  Shoot, even when our Congress passes laws, it is usually written by these corrupt institutions which hide a bunch of power-grabbing initiatives deep inside these bills.  

It may sound crazy as it blows away the paradigm that has been engraved into the heads of Americans, but we are being manipulated and controlled by millions of unelected government and corporate bureaucrats who themselves a controlled by the elite ruling class.  Our elected government is mostly a mirage whose powers have been largely taken away by these bureaucracies. 

That is the core truth to what is wrong with this country.  We need to reign in these government and corporate bureaucracies and empower our elected officials to regain control and to have oversight so that these agencies are answerable to the American people.  

[jonmx 1,764]

And to apply my above theory to this propaganda war on local police departments....why does the media hype up these killings by local police?  Because local police departments are run by locally elected sheriffs who are not inside the inner circle of our federal bureaucracies. 

The ultimate goal on these attacks on the integrity of our local police is to lead to legislation which puts local police under federal power to 'save' us from this 'crisis' of racism by police.  Local police will then be answerable to the elite ruling class and they will have little concern for the people they serve.  It is all about empowering bootlickers who do the work of the rich elitist bastards and creating a rogue government which has no Constitutional restrictions.  

  

[jerryskids 5,427]

21 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

First off I want conservatives to acknowledge that there is still institutionalized racism in this country against black people, and the worst of it is from police. Then we can discuss what’s to be done about it. 

I know you dislike when science disagrees with your beliefs, but Harvard economist Roland Fryer (a black man) showed that there was no police bias in police shootings.  There is however bias in non-lethal force.

This study hurt his career btw. Colleagues suggested he bury it. Not the right woke message. I wonder how many other such studies meet such a fate?

Abstract:

This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force –officer-involved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings.

[Patented Phil 874]

8 hours ago, double tour said:

Pathetic. 

Can you imagine going through life like this dude?

[TimHauck 1,887]

12 hours ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

prejudging is not racism

if any person comes up to me in a business suit no matter what race they are I am going to treat them differently than any person who comes up to me covered in tatts and a basketball jersey

but you have probably never been in sales, little things like this are key

 

What if the person is wearing basketball shorts and a Nike t shirt that fits them appropriately and has 1 or less tattoos?  Still treating them the same regardless of race?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,668]

7 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

What if the person is wearing basketball shorts and a Nike t shirt that fits them appropriately and has 1 or less tattoos?  Still treating them the same regardless of race?

Yep I treat everyone good regardless. How they appear is how I choose to interact 

[The Real timschochet 3,221]

32 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I know you dislike when science disagrees with your beliefs, but Harvard economist Roland Fryer (a black man) showed that there was no police bias in police shootings.  There is however bias in non-lethal force.

This study hurt his career btw. Colleagues suggested he bury it. Not the right woke message. I wonder how many other such studies meet such a fate?

Abstract:

This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force –officer-involved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings.

I have no problem agreeing with Fryer. I have never mentioned police shootings in this thread. All of my posts have been about overall treatment. The story in the OP is about a victim who died because he couldn’t breathe, not because he was shot. And deaths at the hands of police are very rare. It’s the overall treatment that I call into question. 

And contrary to what you wrote, I very much like it when science contradicts my beliefs. I’m just not convinced it has done so with regards to transgenders, which I think must be what you’re referring to. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,981]

Ever since the liberals have put themselves in black peoples business things have not improved for black people. Schools are worse than ever, committing crimes at a higher rate, also being victimized at a higher rate. Cities are filthy and in disrepair.  More fatherless children.  It’s almost as if they want them to be at odds with the police. This way the police catch the blame, not the architects. 

[The Real timschochet 3,221]

2 hours ago, MLCKAA said:

You’re so close to understanding what ails America and so far from it at the same time.

You choose the racial lenses.  And it is definitely a choice.

If you would just deliberately look at things without the lens of racism, you would see how income inequality and financial disparities are THE social problem in America.  Everything else is a distraction.  Unfortunately, you lap it up like a kitten at a saucer.

You’re obviously a bright guy.  Maybe you can convince yourself to look for something else in all of this.  Just as an experiment in personal development, try to look at any of the social issues that anger you without questioning racial elements of the issue and instead considering how financial inequality influences it.

It’s been pointed out in this thread, correctly, that other racial groups that suffer from income disparity do not commit crime at the same level that black people do. Poor people are still far more likely than others to commit crimes, but blacks commit crimes at a much higher rate even than other poor people. Therefore I conclude that with blacks it’s a combination of three issues: 

1. income disparity 

2. A long history of mistreatment against them, particularly slavery and Jim Crow, which has created social dysfunction, lack of family structure, etc. 

3. Police and societal mistreatment and racism against black people which continues in this current day. 
 

Keep in mind that the vast majority of African-Americans are law abiding and do not commit violent crimes or any crimes, and yet are still often victims of point #3. And THAT is why I am forced to view these issues with a lens of racism. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,981]

Fathers don’t matter. 

[TimHauck 1,887]

13 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Yep I treat everyone good regardless. How they appear is how I choose to interact 

So what would you do if the person I described is walking the opposite direction as you on the same side of the street at night?

[Engorgeous George 1,304]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

So what would you do if the person I described is walking the opposite direction as you on the same side of the street at night?

I wonder how close they will get to me before they cross over to avoid me.

[The Real timschochet 3,221]

12 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Yep I treat everyone good regardless. How they appear is how I choose to interact 

I think your point is a good one, I agree with you and I probably treat people the same as you do. 

But neither of us is a police officer. Because they almost uniquely in our society have the legal ability to use deadly force, their responsibility is that much greater. 

 

[Engorgeous George 1,304]

Groups concentrated in poor parts of cities are subject to greater police interaction.  It stands to reason that rural folks down long dark roads come into contact with police significantly less than folks on stoops in the city or walking down busy city streets patrolled by cops.  

 

Some groups have a strong ethos against calling the cops on other members of thier group, some enjoy the power and drama of doing so, appealing to authority to back them up in a dispute resulting in arrest.

 

All groups have the option of cooperating or at least acquiesing,  or resisting or fleeing.  There seems to be a culteral disparity in which paradigm is adopted by groups and that explains disparity in outcomes.

 

There is an element of self-fulfiling prophecy in police interactions.  Groups that believe the outcome will be extremely negative are likely to be nervous during police interactions and more likely, therefore, to react in ways which lead to bad outcomes. This is a self-reinforcing negative mechanism difficult to eliminate as it allows partisans to blame the other side for how things are.  

 

Some, a very few, but still some cops are bad cops, even racists who should never have been hired to enforce the law.  The problems are not institutional, they are not in training or policies or directives or sanctioned practice, they are anomalies, dangerous anomalies.

[nobody 2,111]

Anyone else wondering why there aren't riots and looting and murals being painted over this guy?

Or does that only happen when the blue team needs to get rid of a red team president?

[BrahmaBulls 283]

23 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

First off I want conservatives to acknowledge that there is still institutionalized racism in this country against black people, and the worst of it is from police. Then we can discuss what’s to be done about it. 

Go fock yourself

[The Real timschochet 3,221]

14 minutes ago, BrahmaBulls said:

Go fock yourself

How? Can you demonstrate? 

[jonmx 1,764]

15 minutes ago, BrahmaBulls said:

Go fock yourself

Typical leftist mentality.  If you don't buy into our cultist beliefs you are unworthy of discussion.   This is the leftist foundation of free speech, only those who buy into the idiotic beliefs we have been brainwashed with, should be able to speak.  The exact philosophy of how the massive online censorship and how government-stream media operates.  

[Fireballer 2,423]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I have no problem agreeing with Fryer. I have never mentioned police shootings in this thread. All of my posts have been about overall treatment. The story in the OP is about a victim who died because he couldn’t breathe, not because he was shot. And deaths at the hands of police are very rare. It’s the overall treatment that I call into question. 

 

This is why everyone sees you as a joke or a troll.  Your links that you posted yesterday focused on police shootings. Now, you say you have never mentioned shootings?   You posted these to support systemic racism.  You either can’t read, or you lazily just grab links that you think might agree with you without reading them.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,981]

6 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

This is why everyone sees you as a joke or a troll.  Your links that you posted yesterday focused on police shootings. Now, you say you have never mentioned shootings?   You posted these to support systemic racism.  You either can’t read, or you lazily just grab links that you think might agree with you without reading them.  

Many poorly educated liberals like Tim don’t read their own links. Happens all the time. Ron/ Gutterboy is another one. 

[TimHauck 1,887]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

Anyone else wondering why there aren't riots and looting and murals being painted over this guy?

No, this guy was being belligerent and was clearly on something 

[TimHauck 1,887]

1 hour ago, Engorgeous George said:

Groups concentrated in poor parts of cities are subject to greater police interaction.  It stands to reason that rural folks down long dark roads come into contact with police significantly less 

Hopefully they don’t often end with the police getting shot like by redneck Larry Acree

[double tour 90]

4 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Hopefully they don’t often end with the police getting shot like by redneck Larry Acree

Now do the numbers dumbass. Compare and contrast. 

[MDC 5,988]

On 4/26/2024 at 11:27 AM, The Real timschochet said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/frank-tyson-toledo-police-body-cam-video-handcuffed-facedown-bar-floor/

How long are we a society going to allow this sort of thing to continue? How long are conservatives going to pretend that this isn’t an issue, while claiming the real issue is black on black violence? 

Democrats tried to pass the George Floyd act which might have helped prevent this sort of thing, but Republicans stopped it. Donald Trump is campaigning on giving police unfettered power and immunity against being charged for this sort of activity. Which side are you on? 

At first glance I don’t see what the police did wrong here. Unless you think people resisting arrest shouldn’t be restrained at all. Either way maybe you should wait a day or 2 until the facts come in before posting this stuff. 

[The Real timschochet 3,221]

25 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

This is why everyone sees you as a joke or a troll.  Your links that you posted yesterday focused on police shootings. Now, you say you have never mentioned shootings?   You posted these to support systemic racism.  You either can’t read, or you lazily just grab links that you think might agree with you without reading them.  

No they focused on police encounters. Shootings were only one example. 

[The Real timschochet 3,221]

2 minutes ago, MDC said:

At first glance I don’t see what the police did wrong here. Unless you think people resisting arrest shouldn’t be restrained at all. Either way maybe you should wait a day or 2 until the facts come in before posting this stuff. 

I think that black males are restrained for too long. I think when somebody says he can’t breathe there should be a quicker response and there often is not for young black men. This was supposed to be addressed by the George Floyd Act which conservatives killed, as I pointed out in the OP. It’s an issue of vital concern so no I don’t think I posted too quickly. 

[double tour 90]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I think that black males are restrained for too long.

[The Real timschochet 3,221]

32 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Typical leftist mentality.  If you don't buy into our cultist beliefs you are unworthy of discussion.   

So let me see if I understand correctly: I make a cogent argument (whether or not you agree with me I’ve been pretty clear), the response by @Brahma Bulls is “go fock yourself” and you blame me and leftists for regarding him as unworthy of discussion. Is that right? 

[TimHauck 1,887]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

Anyone else wondering why there aren't riots and looting and murals being painted over this guy?

Or does that only happen when the blue team needs to get rid of a red team president?

Trayvon Martin, 2012, Obama

Eric Garner, 2014, Obama

Michael Brown, 2014, Obama

Tamir Rice, 2014, Obama

Walter Scott, 2015, Obama

Freddie Gray, 2015, Obama

Philando Castile, July 2016, Obama

 

Take the L, gaslighter

[The Real timschochet 3,221]

2 minutes ago, double tour said:

I don’t think the family of George Floyd found this amusing. Sorry that you do. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,981]

In 2015, Walter Scott was unarmed and gunned down in the back by a police officer while fleeing. The incident was caught on video, clear as day. Scott did not have an extensive criminal background.  No riots, no looting, no burning. Makes you go hmmmm.  

[TimHauck 1,887]

11 minutes ago, double tour said:

Now do the numbers dumbass. Compare and contrast. 

Sure, can you provide the statistics for the number of times police approach a residence in a rural area and the police are shot at by the residents vs the number of times police approach a residence in a city and the police are shot at by the residents?  I’d guess the % is actually higher for the rural area, but don’t have the numbers handy.

[MLCKAA 421]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s been pointed out in this thread, correctly, that other racial groups that suffer from income disparity do not commit crime at the same level that black people do. Poor people are still far more likely than others to commit crimes, but blacks commit crimes at a much higher rate even than other poor people. Therefore I conclude that with blacks it’s a combination of three issues: 

1. income disparity 

2. A long history of mistreatment against them, particularly slavery and Jim Crow, which has created social dysfunction, lack of family structure, etc. 

3. Police and societal mistreatment and racism against black people which continues in this current day. 
 

Keep in mind that the vast majority of African-Americans are law abiding and do not commit violent crimes or any crimes, and yet are still often victims of point #3. And THAT is why I am forced to view these issues with a lens of racism. 

In short, you’re not willing to consider a different perspective.  That’s OK.

Your first paragraph above, whether or not you realize it, is just illuminating that blacks, whites and others in poverty may display different symptoms of the condition.  Blacks in poverty commit more violent crimes than whites in poverty.  You can’t conflate the difference in the way people respond to a stimulus with the idea that they’re experiencing a different stimulus.

The overwhelming social problem is financial inequality and racism pales so dramatically that it is irrelevant in comparison.

Your passion is wasted on a myth.  Wake up and use your considerable cognitive abilities to solve the real problem.  The world needs you.

[The Real timschochet 3,221]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Trayvon Martin, 2012, Obama

Eric Garner, 2014, Obama

Michael Brown, 2014, Obama

Tamir Rice, 2014, Obama

Walter Scott, 2015, Obama

Freddie Gray, 2015, Obama

Philando Castile, July 2016, Obama

 

Take the L, gaslighter

I think perhaps the reason there are no protests (at least so far) is that blacks are exhausted. What do these protests ever get them? Nothing ever changes. 

[double tour 90]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t think the family of George Floyd found this amusing. Sorry that you do. 

I do.