Trump talk only- no Eagles talk allowed (Steelers talk is OK though)

[jerryskids 6,799]

18 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

Yeah, I agree with a lot of libertarian views, but the border isn't one of them.  I don't know that I'd say that one issue or any one issue should exclude someone from a certain ideological group.  One thing I've found disheartening in recent times is the litmus/purity tests for people.  There's not a party or group I agree with on every major issue, much less every issue down the line.  Anyone who always agrees with one party needs to think for themselves more.

Pure libertarianism is the opposite pole of pure communism, and they share the same fatal flaw:  they only work if everyone follows the rules, but people suck and they don't follow the rules.  

The optimal solution is somewhere on the spectrum between the two; we spend our time debating where that point is.   

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,350]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

No you’re not. 

Your views on trade and immigration are inconsistent with libertarian values (small l). You can call yourself one if you like but it’s not a correct definition. 

If I agree with 75% of the principles and also agree that we should have secure borders where does that put me?  I also believe in fair trade 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

Trump got 6 out of 800 votes to be the libertarian nominee after begging for it last night.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Trump got 6 out of 800 votes to be the libertarian nominee after begging for it last night.

How many did Biden get?

[thegeneral 3,214]

49 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

How many did Biden get?

433

[GutterBoy 2,899]

5318008

[thegeneral 3,214]

7 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

5318008

The Democrats rigged another election! 

[The Real timschochet 6,766]

3 hours ago, Mark Davis said:

Yeah, I agree with a lot of libertarian views, but the border isn't one of them.  I don't know that I'd say that one issue or any one issue should exclude someone from a certain ideological group.  One thing I've found disheartening in recent times is the litmus/purity tests for people.  There's not a party or group I agree with on every major issue, much less every issue down the line.  Anyone who always agrees with one party needs to think for themselves more.

I agree with you as a general rule but there ARE core values in each political movement and this is one of them. For example, you couldn’t identify as an economic conservative and at the same time be for higher taxes and big government spending. Immigration and free trade are central libertarian ideas 

[The Real timschochet 6,766]

2 hours ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

If I agree with 75% of the principles and also agree that we should have secure borders where does that put me?  I also believe in fair trade 

It makes you a nationalist  conservative. Not a libertarian. Nothing wrong with that. 
 

Correction: even a libertarian can believe in secure borders and fair trade. But if you want to limit immigration and deport all the undocumented people, and if you want to attempt to enforce free trade through tariffs, then you move away from libertarianism towards nationalism. Again, nothing wrong with that except that IMO your ideas are bad for this country. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,350]

9 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

It makes you a nationalist  conservative. Not a libertarian. Nothing wrong with that. 
 

Correction: even a libertarian can believe in secure borders and fair trade. But if you want to limit immigration and deport all the undocumented people, and if you want to attempt to enforce free trade through tariffs, then you move away from libertarianism towards nationalism. Again, nothing wrong with that except that IMO your ideas are bad for this country. 

When have I said I want to deport all illegals?  I also only agree with tariffs if other countries put tariffs on stuff we export. 
 

and limited immigration. Is not bad for this nation. We should not be admitting people who contribute nothing 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,435]

2 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

When have I said I want to deport all illegals?  I also only agree with tariffs if other countries put tariffs on stuff we export. 
 

and limited immigration. Is not bad for this nation. We should not be admitting people who contribute nothing 

You don’t want illegals deported? 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,350]

11 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You don’t want illegals deported? 

All no. Cause it’s unrealistic. If listed plenty of thoughts over years here that are more reasonable solutions.

[Voltaire 5,316]

On 5/22/2024 at 2:11 PM, Fireballer said:

Joe is running on fumes.  Dude may not make it past the convention. Still, sadly, it’s gonna be a close race.  

 

We need him to at least make it to the convention. Ideally he loses, then runs again in 2028.

 

 

[Voltaire 5,316]

12 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

How many did Biden get?

826 out of 800.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,435]

11 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

All no. Cause it’s unrealistic. If listed plenty of thoughts over years here that are more reasonable solutions.

Of course all of them can’t be. But most of them can, and all should be subjected to it. If they can manage to live in the shadows and not cause trouble that’s acceptable. But too many people and out already thin resources get stretched. 

[Voltaire 5,316]

33 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Of course all of them can’t be. But most of them can, and all should be subjected to it. If they can manage to live in the shadows and not cause trouble that’s acceptable. But too many people and out already thin resources get stretched. 

Don't commit crimes, don't mooch off the government, do something productive with their life such that they are an asset to society...

 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

17 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Don't commit crimes, don't mooch off the government, do something productive with their life such that they are an asset to society...

 

Sounds like a very reasonable take where many of us agree.

Much better than detention camps, murderers and rapists, poisoning the blood, hate America, etc

[The Real timschochet 6,766]

1 hour ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

When have I said I want to deport all illegals?  I also only agree with tariffs if other countries put tariffs on stuff we export. 
 

and limited immigration. Is not bad for this nation. We should not be admitting people who contribute nothing 

Look I’m not trying to argue with you on these issues (though I very much disagree). All I’m saying is that they’re not libertarian. And that if you hold them you can’t really say you’re “mostly” libertarian because these particular issues go to the heart of libertarianism. 

[The Real timschochet 6,766]

22 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Sounds like a very reasonable take where many of us agree.

Much better than detention camps, murderers and rapists, poisoning the blood, hate America, etc

Except that with regard to the “don’t commit crimes” part, many MAGA types will tell you that this includes the crime of coming here illegally which makes them all criminals already. I must have heard this argument made a million times, though I don’t know if @Voltaire agrees. 

[The Real timschochet 6,766]

Back to the thread topic- will the issues of the border and undocumented immigration affect the outcome of the election? Maybe. But I still kind of doubt it. 

Here is my reasoning: Lets agree that more and more independents, and even liberals, are concerned about this topic and lean towards greater security at the border and prefer Trump over Biden on this issue. That still doesn’t make it a priority for them when it comes to voting. The polling that I’ve seen doesn’t suggest it is. 

If Biden loses this election it will be because of the economy, inflation, and Biden’s age, not because of the border. If Trump loses this election it will be because of fear for our democracy and abortion. These, not the border, nor foreign affairs,  will be the deciding issues in November IMO. 
 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,435]

Liberals are ok with rape trees. It’s a sacrifice some others have to make so their side can win an election. 

[The Real timschochet 6,766]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Liberals are ok with rape trees. It’s a sacrifice some others have to make so their side can win an election. 

Rape trees??

[Hardcore troubadour 15,435]

Angel Gabriel Cuz Choc, who entered here illegally from Guatemala in 2023, killed his girlfriend and her four year old daughter in Tampa in April.  He was wanted for two murders in Guatemala. He was described as a “Florida man”’ in the limited amount of press this story received. Imagine that. 

[jonmx 2,429]

15 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Back to the thread topic- will the issues of the border and undocumented immigration affect the outcome of the election? Maybe. But I still kind of doubt it. 

Here is my reasoning: Lets agree that more and more independents, and even liberals, are concerned about this topic and lean towards greater security at the border and prefer Trump over Biden on this issue. That still doesn’t make it a priority for them when it comes to voting. The polling that I’ve seen doesn’t suggest it is. 

If Biden loses this election it will be because of the economy, inflation, and Biden’s age, not because of the border. If Trump loses this election it will be because of fear for our democracy and abortion. These, not the border, nor foreign affairs,  will be the deciding issues in November IMO. 
 

The issue already has had a huge impact on the race.  This immigration stuff is no longer just an issue in border states, but showing up in the big cities across the country.  Trump support among blacks has risen from about 10 percent four years to around 20 percent today, some polls show as high as 23 percent.  The government is pushing blacks out of the lower income housing by giving illegals huge rent subsidies and also treating homeless illegals much better than others.   Of course your 'news' sources are never going to tell you the truth.  But our inner cities are becoming lawless war zones where police are not even allowed to police the illegals.  Crime stats will never capture this and your propaganda news sources will cover it up and never reveal the truth.  Good luck with Democrats holding a live convention in Chicago.  

[GutterBoy 2,899]

44 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Rape trees??

Evil dead?

I'm guessing rape trees are the latest bs spreading on foxnews

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Yeah I guess I’m pretty impressed by trees that can pull off rape

[The Real timschochet 6,766]

10 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Yeah I guess I’m pretty impressed by trees that can pull off rape

Geddy Lee warned us about this long ago…

[Hardcore troubadour 15,435]

Told you they think it’s ok. Even funny.  Some sad excuses for men. 

[squistion 2,203]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Rape trees??

Urban legend spread by conservatives (inspired perhaps by a Law And Order episode which may have been based on the urban legend)

https://www.borderreport.com/immigration/border-crime/border-authorities-refute-gop-allegations-of-rape-trees-rampant-in-south-texas/

Border authorities refute GOP allegations of ‘rape trees’ rampant in South Texas

McALLEN, Texas (Border Report) — Republican lawmakers and candidates have been espousing the notion that “rape trees” — spots where migrants are sexually assaulted, their undergarments are hung as “trophies” — are prevalent on the South Texas border.

But during interviews with Border Report, several border sheriffs and federal officials said they have found no evidence that “rape trees” exist.

[...]

U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, tweeted that he’d seen “rape trees” in July after visiting South Texas. He wrote: “What’s happening at the border is inhumane, it’s evil, and it cannot be defended.”

But Border Report spoke with three South Texas sheriffs from the border counties of Maverick, Hidalgo and Webb, and all say they have never heard of such a concept, nor come across such structures.

“I don’t know where they’re getting that information. What area? It’s not in Maverick (County) that I know of and I haven’t heard it from the other sheriffs close to my area,” Maverick County Sheriff Tom Schmerber said via phone Tuesday from his office in Eagle Pass, Texas.

[...]

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,435]

Oh. Some sheriffs in a few sectors said they never saw them. Well, that’s a wrap then. “Border Authorities” turn out to be local sheriffs. Damn some of you are dumb as dirt. I can see why the media misleads like they do. It works. “Border authorities”. Lol.  

[The Real timschochet 6,766]

4 minutes ago, squistion said:

Urban legend spread by conservatives (inspired perhaps by a Law And Order episode which may have been based on the urban legend)

https://www.borderreport.com/immigration/border-crime/border-authorities-refute-gop-allegations-of-rape-trees-rampant-in-south-texas/

Border authorities refute GOP allegations of ‘rape trees’ rampant in South Texas

McALLEN, Texas (Border Report) — Republican lawmakers and candidates have been espousing the notion that “rape trees” — spots where migrants are sexually assaulted, their undergarments are hung as “trophies” — are prevalent on the South Texas border.

But during interviews with Border Report, several border sheriffs and federal officials said they have found no evidence that “rape trees” exist.

[...]

U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, tweeted that he’d seen “rape trees” in July after visiting South Texas. He wrote: “What’s happening at the border is inhumane, it’s evil, and it cannot be defended.”

But Border Report spoke with three South Texas sheriffs from the border counties of Maverick, Hidalgo and Webb, and all say they have never heard of such a concept, nor come across such structures.

“I don’t know where they’re getting that information. What area? It’s not in Maverick (County) that I know of and I haven’t heard it from the other sheriffs close to my area,” Maverick County Sheriff Tom Schmerber said via phone Tuesday from his office in Eagle Pass, Texas.

[...]

 

Thanks. I can’t keep up with all the right wing conspiracies. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,435]

Boxes of plan B are found at the rape trees and other locations where cartel members rape woman and children.  Unless of course some Sheriff says that’s not happening.  “Border authorities “.  Laughable. 

[Voltaire 5,316]

16 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Except that with regard to the “don’t commit crimes” part, many MAGA types will tell you that this includes the crime of coming here illegally which makes them all criminals already. I must have heard this argument made a million times, though I don’t know if @Voltaire agrees. 

Being here illegally IS a crime and should be treated as such. If that's your only crime, you should get the benefit of the doubt when pumping gas or mowing the lawn or doing ordinary stuff. I wouldn't expect cops to go up to people shopping at the grocery store looking for foreign and are speaking a foreign language or broken/accented English and give them grief just based on a hunch. That's no way to live. Let them alone to walk the streets in peace. But if someone is caught doing something else and in doing a background check it turns out they're in the country illegally, stack this on top.

 

[Voltaire 5,316]

16 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Rape trees??

That's just the stupid neighbors being jerks again. It was fully consensual.

 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,350]

Libertarians throw their own convention to support Trump

nominate extreme leftist for presidential candidate, will only take democrat votes, Mises caucus shifts to Trump

[BeachGuy23 642]

On 5/27/2024 at 1:57 PM, Hardcore troubadour said:

Boxes of plan B are found at the rape trees and other locations where cartel members rape woman and children.  Unless of course some Sheriff says that’s not happening.  “Border authorities “.  Laughable. 

Cultist please tell me you're embarrassed by this freaking moron or I'll have even less respect for you morons than I do now...well in spirit anyway. 

Rape trees?

[SUXBNME 1,503]

On 5/27/2024 at 9:22 AM, The Real timschochet said:

Geddy Lee warned us about this long ago…

 Well done, sir...Well done. 

I believe that Peart wrote the song, but Geddy did sing it to us so there's that. 

 

There is unrest in the forest
Trouble with the trees
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas

The trouble with the maples
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light

But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade

There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the maples scream, "Oppression"
And the oaks just shake their heads

So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights
They say, "The oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light"

Now there's no more oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw

 

[jerryskids 6,799]

17 hours ago, Voltaire said:

That's just the stupid neighbors being jerks again. It was fully consensual.

 

Wood.   

[The Real timschochet 6,766]

We’ll see if the state of the race changes after the conviction. As I wrote earlier, I’m highly skeptical. Still if it affects even 5% of independents that could be decisive…

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

We’ll see if the state of the race changes after the conviction. As I wrote earlier, I’m highly skeptical. Still if it affects even 5% of independents that could be decisive…

I don't think it changes anything.  In fact, I think it galvanizes the voters and he even picks some up.  Just a guess.  I think the black vote might be more affected than independents.