Cultural existential threat: Marxism and Moral Relativism

[jerryskids 5,335]

This is the first of what may be several threads on my thoughts about cultural existential threats facing our nation, depending on how it goes and how much stuff gets swept under this topic.

Marxism and Moral Relativism:  Definitions of Marxism abound; for our purposes, I'll call it the support of the worker class over the ownership class, or the oppressed over the oppressors from an economic standpoint.  

Marxism also supports moral relativism:

Quote

In the absence of a universal morality, each and every moral code from all societies and from all historical periods, is equally valid. There is no way of establishing that some are better than others, that some are valid but some invalid. This concept is known as moral relativism. In the absence of a transcendent morality, there is only an absence of morality – amoralism. So amoralism is a logical consequence of materialism. It asserts that, universally, all moral codes are invalid; nothing is inherently good or bad, right or wrong, just or unjust. There is no ought or should.  To summarize, the assumption of materialism leads to the following conclusions: 1. there is no transcendent morality 2. all moralities are socially constructed 3. all local moralities are valid 4. amoralism is the only outlook that can be applied universally 

https://www.google.com/search?q=marxist+moral+relativism&sca_esv=4771c1dce5b9df5f&sxsrf=ADLYWIKmN0GtIzO1s5LmuDWRPAuBlaa9Uw%3A1715614907871&ei=uzRCZqHzNMT1kPIPr5iD8AY&oq=marxism+and+moral+rela&gs_lp=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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

For most of its existence, Marxism and economics were closely intertwined.  But in recent history, we have seen the tenets of Marxism extended to other areas.

- BLM and anti-racism are racial Marxism, where the oppressed are black people.  We are led to believe that white people (the oppressors) are inherently racist, as are all systems developed by the oppressors.  Biden's administration has enacted many policies supporting this.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/10/19/fact-sheet-the-biden-harris-administration-advances-equity-and-opportunity-for-black-people-and-communities-across-the-country/

- The allowance of biological men into women's safe spaces and sports is sexual Marxism.  It places the needs of the oppressed (the men) over the needs of the oppressors (cis women).  Biden's recent Title 9 changes show clear support of this.

- The support of Palestinians over Israel is... terrorist Marxism?  religious Marxism?  Obviously the Palestinians are the oppressed in this model.  We see Biden's support for Israel waning in deference to the Islamic State of Dearborn.

I do not believe in moral relativism; I believe there are some moral absolutes.  But you need moral relativism to defend men in women's prisons, or woman-raping child-burning terrorists.

Existential Threat:

I do not believe that a nation can survive in the long term on a backbone of moral relativism.  While the above specific issues are not likely to cause the demise of our nation, they are part of a clear pattern and trajectory towards increasing relativism.  What is the American Way?  Is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness good?  How about the American Dream, that any person through hard work can achieve his/her goals?  Is that good?  We seem to be increasingly celebrating people for being on an intersectional scale more than people who achieve great things.

Anyway, I've typed enough for now.  I look forward to @BeachGuy23responding with a grammatically challenged one-liner, but hopefully this can generate some discussion among intelligent folks.   

[weepaws 2,501]

This is a loaded thread that I would beware of having any discussion with this OP,  if you disagree even slightly with this OP, your His enemy.  

Pass on.  

[MDC 5,942]

When I think of my top issues, they’re probably our broken healthcare system and the housing and opioid crises. Maybe the cost of education and infrastructure crack the Top 5.

It’s a bummer that wokeness and where trannies take a Number 2 will probably get more mental real estate this year than anything I care about. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,170]

8 minutes ago, MDC said:

When I think of my top issues, they’re probably our broken healthcare system and the housing and opioid crises. Maybe the cost of education and infrastructure crack the Top 5.

It’s a bummer that wokeness and where trannies take a Number 2 will probably get more mental real estate this year than anything I care about. 

The healthcare system isn't broke, so until we get full on socialism or communism, you'll never be happy with the solution.  Even then, you still won't be fully happy because the problem isn't the system, it's the people.

[MDC 5,942]

14 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

The healthcare system isn't broke

I disagree. 

[jerryskids 5,335]

40 minutes ago, weepaws said:

This is a loaded thread that I would beware of having any discussion with this OP,  if you disagree even slightly with this OP, your His enemy.  

Pass on.  

What, are you butt sore because I pointed out that China has 10X the abortions vs. the US?  You came at me with the abortion claim out of nowhere; I merely pointed out you were wrong. You are like your buddy BeachGuy, who also tried to come at me with something stupid, and cried to mommy when I corrected him.

[jerryskids 5,335]

36 minutes ago, MDC said:

When I think of my top issues, they’re probably our broken healthcare system and the housing and opioid crises. Maybe the cost of education and infrastructure crack the Top 5.

It’s a bummer that wokeness and where trannies take a Number 2 will probably get more mental real estate this year than anything I care about. 

I was challenged to defend my claim of cultural existential issues, hence this thread.  That doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned about issues like the opioid epidemic.  If you can think of a differentiated approach by one of the candidates to support why they should be elected on one of these issues you listed, by all means start a thread and we can discuss.   

[The Real timschochet 3,127]

Your two examples of moral relativism don’t really hold up IMO: 

Regarding your first example, all we’re doing is giving trans women recognition as women. There is no oppressed, and no oppressing force, there is no Marxism involved, sexual or otherwise. I regard this as a matter of individual liberty. But even if you take the opposing view, this isn’t large enough an issue to reflect on society as a whole, IMO.

Regarding your second example: that is not an either or situation. One can support Palestinian rights and at the same time support the State of Israel. This is in fact my position. I don’t see any contradiction at all; in fact, I think that securing Palestinian rights (and an eventual state) is vital to Israel’s security and long term interests. Once again I don’t think moral relativism, or Marxism, are involved. 

[edjr 5,656]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

This is the first of what may be several threads on my thoughts about cultural existential threats facing our nation, depending on how it goes and how much stuff gets swept under this topic.

Marxism and Moral Relativism:  Definitions of Marxism abound; for our purposes, I'll call it the support of the worker class over the ownership class, or the oppressed over the oppressors from an economic standpoint.  

Marxism also supports moral relativism:

https://www.google.com/search?q=marxist+moral+relativism&sca_esv=4771c1dce5b9df5f&sxsrf=ADLYWIKmN0GtIzO1s5LmuDWRPAuBlaa9Uw%3A1715614907871&ei=uzRCZqHzNMT1kPIPr5iD8AY&oq=marxism+and+moral+rela&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiFm1hcnhpc20gYW5kIG1vcmFsIHJlbGEqAggAMgYQABgWGB4yCxAAGIAEGIYDGIoFMgsQABiABBiGAxiKBTIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogRIu4UBUP4WWJ1pcAF4AZABAJgBzwGgAdoOqgEFOC44LjG4AQHIAQD4AQGYAhKgAvcPwgIKEAAYsAMY1gQYR8ICDRAAGIAEGLADGEMYigXCAg0QABiABBixAxhDGIoFwgIOEAAYgAQYkQIYsQMYigXCAgsQABiABBiRAhiKBcICCxAAGIAEGLEDGIMBwgIKEAAYgAQYQxiKBcICCBAAGIAEGLEDwgIFEAAYgATCAgsQLhiABBiRAhiKBcICBRAuGIAEwgIaEC4YgAQYkQIYigUYlwUY3AQY3gQY4ATYAQHCAgoQABgWGAoYHhgPmAMAiAYBkAYKugYGCAEQARgUkgcFOS44LjGgB8elAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

For most of its existence, Marxism and economics were closely intertwined.  But in recent history, we have seen the tenets of Marxism extended to other areas.

- BLM and anti-racism are racial Marxism, where the oppressed are black people.  We are led to believe that white people (the oppressors) are inherently racist, as are all systems developed by the oppressors.  Biden's administration has enacted many policies supporting this.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/10/19/fact-sheet-the-biden-harris-administration-advances-equity-and-opportunity-for-black-people-and-communities-across-the-country/

- The allowance of biological men into women's safe spaces and sports is sexual Marxism.  It places the needs of the oppressed (the men) over the needs of the oppressors (cis women).  Biden's recent Title 9 changes show clear support of this.

- The support of Palestinians over Israel is... terrorist Marxism?  religious Marxism?  Obviously the Palestinians are the oppressed in this model.  We see Biden's support for Israel waning in deference to the Islamic State of Dearborn.

I do not believe in moral relativism; I believe there are some moral absolutes.  But you need moral relativism to defend men in women's prisons, or woman-raping child-burning terrorists.

Existential Threat:

I do not believe that a nation can survive in the long term on a backbone of moral relativism.  While the above specific issues are not likely to cause the demise of our nation, they are part of a clear pattern and trajectory towards increasing relativism.  What is the American Way?  Is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness good?  How about the American Dream, that any person through hard work can achieve his/her goals?  Is that good?  We seem to be increasingly celebrating people for being on an intersectional scale more than people who achieve great things.

Anyway, I've typed enough for now.  I look forward to @BeachGuy23responding with a grammatically challenged one-liner, but hopefully this can generate some discussion among intelligent folks.   

 

[Bier Meister 1,528]

49 minutes ago, weepaws said:

This is a loaded thread that I would beware of having any discussion with this OP,  if you disagree even slightly with this OP, your His enemy.  

Pass on.  

I disagree. I often have differing opinions with OP and this has not diminished our comradery.  

41 minutes ago, MDC said:

When I think of my top issues, they’re probably our broken healthcare system and the housing and opioid crises. Maybe the cost of education and infrastructure crack the Top 5.

It’s a bummer that wokeness and where trannies take a Number 2 will probably get more mental real estate this year than anything I care about. 

health care, education, civil rights

32 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

The healthcare system isn't broke, so until we get full on socialism or communism, you'll never be happy with the solution.  Even then, you still won't be fully happy because the problem isn't the system, it's the people.

there needs to be a change away from connecting it with our employers, and moving toward cost reduction.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,170]

2 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

there needs to be a change away from connecting it with our employers, and moving toward cost reduction.  

So every person fends for themselves?  Or do you mean the government doing it?

[Bier Meister 1,528]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So every person fends for themselves?  Or do you mean the government doing it?

my preference is for more options, with one to include reliable, accessible, affordable  plans from the government.

[MDC 5,942]

19 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I was challenged to defend my claim of cultural existential issues, hence this thread.  That doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned about issues like the opioid epidemic.  If you can think of a differentiated approach by one of the candidates to support why they should be elected on one of these issues you listed, by all means start a thread and we can discuss.   

These 2 candidates? I can’t think of any reasons why either of them should be elected.

[edjr 5,656]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

This is a loaded thread that I would beware of having any discussion with this OP,  if you disagree even slightly with this OP, your His enemy.  

Pass on.  

his enemy what?

[TBayXXXVII 2,170]

51 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

my preference is for more options, with one to include reliable, accessible, affordable  plans from the government.

Who's paying for it?

[Bier Meister 1,528]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Who's paying for it?

theoretically, we should be paying for it with our tax dollars.  part of this, for me, is how we allocate funding. 

[BeachGuy23 578]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

I was challenged to defend my claim of cultural existential issues, hence this thread.  That doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned about issues like the opioid epidemic.  If you can think of a differentiated approach by one of the candidates to support why they should be elected on one of these issues you listed, by all means start a thread and we can discuss.   

So to sum it up you think wokeness will bring an end to the United States.

And Biden has supported Israel every step of the way.  He just wants them to slaughter less.

LMFAO at democrats supporting Palestine...SMH.

Prior to the invasion cultist were massively anti-jew and would slur them nonstop.  Now because the morons think they're getting political points, cultist try to act like dems have abandoned Israel in support of Palestine.

You literally can't make this level of low IQ "strategy" up.

[Fireballer 2,422]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Your two examples of moral relativism don’t really hold up IMO: 

Regarding your first example, all we’re doing is giving trans women recognition as women. There is no oppressed, and no oppressing force, there is no Marxism involved, sexual or otherwise. I regard this as a matter of individual liberty. But even if you take the opposing view, this isn’t large enough an issue to reflect on society as a whole, IMO.

Regarding your second example: that is not an either or situation. One can support Palestinian rights and at the same time support the State of Israel. This is in fact my position. I don’t see any contradiction at all; in fact, I think that securing Palestinian rights (and an eventual state) is vital to Israel’s security and long term interests. Once again I don’t think moral relativism, or Marxism, are involved. 

Define “recognition” in this instance.  And who is “we”?

[TBayXXXVII 2,170]

6 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

theoretically, we should be paying for it with our tax dollars.  part of this, for me, is how we allocate funding. 

So you want what Canada has basically?  Wait until you see that number come out of your pay check.   You think you pay a lot now?  Just wait until Uncle Sam gets his hooks in it.    The campaign ads from presidential candidates pretending on how they're going to lower those costs will be comedic.

[Bier Meister 1,528]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So you want what Canada has basically?  Wait until you see that number come out of your pay check.   You think you pay a lot now?  Just wait until Uncle Sam gets his hooks in it.    The campaign ads from presidential candidates pretending on how they're going to lower those costs will be comedic.

i am aiming higher than canada. there are models that work better.  

 

but yes, lowering costs on both premium side and balance would help everyone.  again, it comes down to how we allocated resources. it is a bigger priority to me. i do not mind paying for something that is reasonable and of quality. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,170]

8 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

i am aiming higher than canada. there are models that work better.  

 

but yes, lowering costs on both premium side and balance would help everyone.  again, it comes down to how we allocated resources. it is a bigger priority to me. i do not mind paying for something that is reasonable and of quality. 

Models that work better... where?

[The Real timschochet 3,127]

21 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Define “recognition” in this instance.  And who is “we”?

I think you know exactly what I mean because we have had this discussion/argument in this forum for months now. Obviously we disagree. 

My larger point is that this issue, whatever your views on it, is simply not large enough to merit being an example of encroaching moral relativism, much less Marxism. 

[Fireballer 2,422]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I think you know exactly what I mean because we have had this discussion/argument in this forum for months now. Obviously we disagree. 

My larger point is that this issue, whatever your views on it, is simply not large enough to merit being an example of encroaching moral relativism, much less Marxism. 

Your use of a vaguery  like “recognition” is what allows you to, in your mind, diminish the issue.  So sidestepping this isn’t shocking.  

[jerryskids 5,335]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Your two examples of moral relativism don’t really hold up IMO: 

Regarding your first example, all we’re doing is giving trans women recognition as women. There is no oppressed, and no oppressing force, there is no Marxism involved, sexual or otherwise. I regard this as a matter of individual liberty. But even if you take the opposing view, this isn’t large enough an issue to reflect on society as a whole, IMO.

Regarding your second example: that is not an either or situation. One can support Palestinian rights and at the same time support the State of Israel. This is in fact my position. I don’t see any contradiction at all; in fact, I think that securing Palestinian rights (and an eventual state) is vital to Israel’s security and long term interests. Once again I don’t think moral relativism, or Marxism, are involved. 

The trans people are absolutely the oppressed.  They are the very definition of oppressed.  The oppressors is a little more nuanced -- it is those who oppose anything but 100% treatment of biological men as women.  And it is absolutely moral relativism to say that the rest of us should adopt to their desires; specifically in my example, their desire to be in girls' sports and safe spaces.

If you look up moral relativism in the dictionary, you very well may find the Palestinian situation.  I don't know if there ever has been a more clear moral absolute.  And it is clearly an oppressed/oppressor situation.  In fact, support from the Left of the cultures in many Islamic-ruled countries requires a heaping dose of moral relativism.  Women in these cultures are property.  They don't walk outside alone for fear of being raped.  If they are raped, it is the woman's fault and her family will shun her.  They aren't allowed to get educated.  And of course we know how LGBTQ folks are treated there.  And the Left is like, oh well, that's just how they roll.  It's disgusting and makes no sense other than moral relativism.

[jerryskids 5,335]

41 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

So to sum it up you think wokeness will bring an end to the United States.

And Biden has supported Israel every step of the way.  He just wants them to slaughter less.

LMFAO at democrats supporting Palestine...SMH.

Prior to the invasion cultist were massively anti-jew and would slur them nonstop.  Now because the morons think they're getting political points, cultist try to act like dems have abandoned Israel in support of Palestine.

You literally can't make this level of low IQ "strategy" up.

Your ability to, in the same post, both argue that Leftie support for something is just at the fringe extreme, then generalize 1/2 of the country into moron cultist, is quite impressive.

Biden's support of Israel is waning, if you haven't been living under a rock.  And it is driven by his perception that young voters and Islamic Dearborn want it.

[Maximum Overkill 775]

26 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

moral relativism, much less Marxism. 

 

[BeachGuy23 578]

12 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Your ability to, in the same post, both argue that Leftie support for something is just at the fringe extreme, then generalize 1/2 of the country into moron cultist, is quite impressive.

Biden's support of Israel is waning, if you haven't been living under a rock.  And it is driven by his perception that young voters and Islamic Dearborn want it.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

It all make sense now.  Yes Biden is changing from his unwavering support of Israel because of some college protests.

He’s only been consistent in his support of Israel and he’s supplied them with weapons.

But yes some college protesters are changing all that.  Nothing to do with Israel slaughtering children.

At this point I’m convinced you’re nothing but a troll.

[IGotWorms 3,405]

Marxism? The fock?

 

Joe focking Biden is not a Bolshevik

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,650]

57 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So you want what Canada has basically?  Wait until you see that number come out of your pay check.   You think you pay a lot now?  Just wait until Uncle Sam gets his hooks in it.    The campaign ads from presidential candidates pretending on how they're going to lower those costs will be comedic.

 

 

[TheNewGirl 1,057]

1 hour ago, Bier Meister said:

theoretically, we should be paying for it with our tax dollars.  part of this, for me, is how we allocate funding. 

You realize that when the govt/taxes takes over healthcare then they are the ones who decide what/when you get treatment for things, right?  

They decide to approve you for things like x-rays, dialysis and chemo.  They truly decide if someone is actually worth the treatments available, someone is worth saving. 

Are you willing to know that "allocating funding" means letting someone's mother die? 

[jerryskids 5,335]

55 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

It all make sense now.  Yes Biden is changing from his unwavering support of Israel because of some college protests.

He’s only been consistent in his support of Israel and he’s supplied them with weapons.

But yes some college protesters are changing all that.  Nothing to do with Israel slaughtering children.

At this point I’m convinced you’re nothing but a troll.

Quote

Did College Protesters Sway Joe Biden?

Published May 09, 2024 at 11:23 AM EDTUpdated May 09, 2024 at 12:57 PM EDT

A week ago, President Joe Biden said nationwide student protests had not made him reconsider any of his policies regarding Israel's actions in Gaza.

Biden had long rejected conditioning military aid to its ally despite the mounting death toll of Palestinians and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza since Israel launched its war following Hamas' October 7 attack on Israel, which killed 1,200 people. Nearly 35,000 Palestinians, two-thirds of them women and children, have been killed since then, The Associated Press reported, citing the local health ministry.

In recent days, it emerged that the Biden administration halted a shipment of 3,500 bombs last week amid concerns about Israel's plan to launch a full-scale assault on the southern Gaza city of Rafah.

And in an interview with CNN on Wednesday, Biden said that the U.S. would not supply Israel with weapons that could be used to invade Rafah, where more than a million Palestinian civilians are sheltering. However, he said the U.S. was still committed to Israel's defense and would supply Iron Dome rocket interceptors.

"I made it clear that if they go into Rafah—they haven't gone into Rafah yet—if they go into Rafah, I'm not supplying the weapons that have been used historically to deal with problems," Biden said. He also acknowledged that U.S. bombs had been used to kill Palestinians in Gaza.

The ongoing pro-Palestinian campus demonstrations played a large part in moving Biden to act, according to some political analysts and activists.

Ralph Young, a history professor at Temple University in Philadelphia and expert on dissent and protest movements in America, said the student protests likely influenced Biden to act.

"We can't know exactly what Biden is thinking," Young told Newsweek. "I do suspect that he is genuinely concerned about the deaths and the ongoing humanitarian crisis. I think it's partially his concern for the innocent civilians in Gaza, but the student protests probably did have a significant influence in getting him to act."

The White House has been contacted for comment via email.

https://www.newsweek.com/college-protesters-joe-biden-1898868#:~:text="Biden has been emphatic that,University College London%2C told Newsweek.

Once again, to no one's surprise, I bring data, and you bring feelz.

Honest question:  have you ever posted a link here to support your feelz posts?   

[jerryskids 5,335]

54 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Marxism? The fock?

 

Joe focking Biden is not a Bolshevik

Oh good, Worms is here for some invigorating discussion.   

If you bothered to read or try to digest anything I said, you would understand... well, any of this better than you do now.

[BeachGuy23 578]

7 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

https://www.newsweek.com/college-protesters-joe-biden-1898868#:~:text="Biden has been emphatic that,University College London%2C told Newsweek.

Once again, to no one's surprise, I bring data, and you bring feelz.

Honest question:  have you ever posted a link here to support your feelz posts?   

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

"Facts"

"We can't know exactly what Biden is thinking," Young told Newsweek. "I do suspect that he is genuinely concerned about the deaths and the ongoing humanitarian crisis. I think it's partially his concern for the innocent civilians in Gaza, but the student protests probably did have a significant influence in getting him to act."

 

Smacking you around like the lowly salesman you are is getting tiresome boyo.  If I were a chick like you I'd go into some back and forth about what facts are, but what's the point, you're clearly nothing but a pathetic troll.  Posting some moronic opinion piece as fact...SAD

Wave the white flag already troll.

obably

[jerryskids 5,335]

1 minute ago, BeachGuy23 said:

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

"Facts"

"We can't know exactly what Biden is thinking," Young told Newsweek. "I do suspect that he is genuinely concerned about the deaths and the ongoing humanitarian crisis. I think it's partially his concern for the innocent civilians in Gaza, but the student protests probably did have a significant influence in getting him to act.

Smacking you around like the lowly salesman you are is getting tiresome boyo.  If I were a chick like you I'd go into some back and forth about what facts are, but what's the point, you're clearly nothing but a pathetic troll.

Wave the white flag already troll.

obably

Dear God are you stupid.  You called me a troll for thinking the protests are impacting his decisions.  Some political analysts agree; are they trolls as well?  And we can't know, because nobody is inside his vacuous, dementia-riddled brain.

Now go run a creative ERP report.  Those plastic spoons aren't going to make themselves!

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,650]

You're on the right path, @jerryskids.   Don't let the Boyosexual Power Twink Twins derail you.

The #1 issue we have today is the Marxism and Communism that has infiltrated our institutions.  Joseph McCarthey was right - just 60 years too early.

[jerryskids 5,335]

3 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

You're on the right path, @jerryskids.   Don't let the Boyosexual Power Twink Twins derail you.

The #1 issue we have today is the Marxism and Communism that has infiltrated our institutions.  Joseph McCarthey was right - just 60 years too early.

Thanks.  I predicted that BeachGirl would come in with inane drivel, I just need to be better about ignoring him.   

[BeachGuy23 578]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Dear God are you stupid.  You called me a troll for thinking the protests are impacting his decisions.  Some political analysts agree; are they trolls as well?  And we can't know, because nobody is inside his vacuous, dementia-riddled brain.

Now go run a creative ERP report.  Those plastic spoons aren't going to make themselves!

You said FACTS boyo.  You didn't imply the protests are impacting his decisions you said they are driving them.  You stated it as an absolute.

 

1 hour ago, BeachGuy23 said:

And it is driven by his perception that young voters and Islamic Dearborn want it.

 

Opinions even by political "experts" are not FACTS.  This is why you have to be a slimy salesman rather than actually designing.

Wave the white flag salesboy.  Let the adults talk.

HFS that's gotta sting.

[BeachGuy23 578]

9 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

You're on the right path, @jerryskids.   Don't let the Boyosexual Power Twink Twins derail you.

The #1 issue we have today is the Marxism and Communism that has infiltrated our institutions.  Joseph McCarthey was right - just 60 years too early.

LOLOLOLOL

This uneducated, wrench turner has the unmitigated gall to inject himself into a complex conversation.

Stick to weighing in on the best flavors of monster boyo. 

Stay in your uneducated lane.

[Fnord 1,161]

37 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

The trans people are absolutely the oppressed.  They are the very definition of oppressed.  The oppressors is a little more nuanced -- it is those who oppose anything but 100% treatment of biological men as women.  And it is absolutely moral relativism to say that the rest of us should adopt to their desires; specifically in my example, their desire to be in girls' sports and safe spaces.

If you look up moral relativism in the dictionary, you very well may find the Palestinian situation.  I don't know if there ever has been a more clear moral absolute.  And it is clearly an oppressed/oppressor situation.  In fact, support from the Left of the cultures in many Islamic-ruled countries requires a heaping dose of moral relativism.  Women in these cultures are property.  They don't walk outside alone for fear of being raped.  If they are raped, it is the woman's fault and her family will shun her.  They aren't allowed to get educated.  And of course we know how LGBTQ folks are treated there.  And the Left is like, oh well, that's just how they roll.  It's disgusting and makes no sense other than moral relativism.

Jesus. I get where you're coming from but shockingly disagree with you.

IMO in your trans example is specious. I don't think any trans people GAF about being 100% accepted, they just want to be left alone and treated with basic human respect. I believe that calling by their preferred name or pronoun is exactly that. If someone has a problem with that, it is indeed THEIR problem, not the problem of the trans individual. Here's one that will surprise you: one could look at the trans individuals themselves as oppressors to an extent. While I am supportive of trans rights like the good little mindless lib you believe me to be, I do have concerns for those whose rights are being infringed upon. You focus on men in women's sports, but I'm with Tim and consider that to be such a ridiculously small problem that it doesn't register. A bigger problem is what I have personally experienced in the workplace: a transsexual woman (biological man) using the women's locker room. Being that I work somewhere awesome with awesome employees, it hasn't been a huge issue, but the fact is that I was in a position where I had to tell a couple dozen women that they essentially had to STFU and deal with the fact that this new employee was going to be using their locker room. And while it has worked out okay, the fact that I had to do that gave me pause. No such thing as black and white.

As for the Israel/Palestine situation, please. I can recognize multiple truths at the same time:

• Hamas is evil and should be wiped out.
• Not every Palestinian supports Hamas, especially the young children.
• Israel is perfectly justified in retaliating and me being okay with it doesn't make me an Islamaphobe.
• Netenyahu is a questionable leader with a scummy past that may be in the process of carrying out genocide, so maybe we oughtta look into that and make sure it doesn't happen just because "God's chosen people" are pissed off.
• I can support the Palestinians that are suffering and question Zionism without being antisemitic and also recognize that while I think their Muslim religion is garbage, they as humans are not. I disagree with the tenets of most religion, but who am I (and who are you) to tell someone their religious beliefs are immoral, wicked, or wrong? You're encroaching on @weepaws territory here.

 

 

[BudBro 123]

5 hours ago, jerryskids said:

This is the first of what may be several threads on my thoughts about cultural existential threats facing our nation, depending on how it goes and how much stuff gets swept under this topic.

Marxism and Moral Relativism:  Definitions of Marxism abound; for our purposes, I'll call it the support of the worker class over the ownership class, or the oppressed over the oppressors from an economic standpoint.  

Marxism also supports moral relativism:

https://www.google.com/search?q=marxist+moral+relativism&sca_esv=4771c1dce5b9df5f&sxsrf=ADLYWIKmN0GtIzO1s5LmuDWRPAuBlaa9Uw%3A1715614907871&ei=uzRCZqHzNMT1kPIPr5iD8AY&oq=marxism+and+moral+rela&gs_lp=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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

For most of its existence, Marxism and economics were closely intertwined.  But in recent history, we have seen the tenets of Marxism extended to other areas.

- BLM and anti-racism are racial Marxism, where the oppressed are black people.  We are led to believe that white people (the oppressors) are inherently racist, as are all systems developed by the oppressors.  Biden's administration has enacted many policies supporting this.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/10/19/fact-sheet-the-biden-harris-administration-advances-equity-and-opportunity-for-black-people-and-communities-across-the-country/

- The allowance of biological men into women's safe spaces and sports is sexual Marxism.  It places the needs of the oppressed (the men) over the needs of the oppressors (cis women).  Biden's recent Title 9 changes show clear support of this.

- The support of Palestinians over Israel is... terrorist Marxism?  religious Marxism?  Obviously the Palestinians are the oppressed in this model.  We see Biden's support for Israel waning in deference to the Islamic State of Dearborn.

I do not believe in moral relativism; I believe there are some moral absolutes.  But you need moral relativism to defend men in women's prisons, or woman-raping child-burning terrorists.

Existential Threat:

I do not believe that a nation can survive in the long term on a backbone of moral relativism.  While the above specific issues are not likely to cause the demise of our nation, they are part of a clear pattern and trajectory towards increasing relativism.  What is the American Way?  Is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness good?  How about the American Dream, that any person through hard work can achieve his/her goals?  Is that good?  We seem to be increasingly celebrating people for being on an intersectional scale more than people who achieve great things.

Anyway, I've typed enough for now.  I look forward to @BeachGuy23responding with a grammatically challenged one-liner, but hopefully this can generate some discussion among intelligent folks.   

The extreme form of deism (a god that just shrugs his shoulders at the world and allows it to run on natural laws and doesn't get involved in its affairs) is secular atheism, where God is pushed so far from our thinking that we don't believe He exists at all.  The advantage is we aren't accountable to a higher being and free from God's authority.  But, it leaves us as nothing more than a cosmic accident in a world that cares nothing about us and won't miss us.

In the USA, atheism isn't popular.  But, as mentioned by the op, atheism has been extremely influential in geopolitics over the past century.  Marx taught that all of reality is the evolution of matter.  All human history is shaped by the evolution of economic systems.  In the modern period, this evolution has resulted in various problems.  People try to solve these problems through religion, which (Marx says) tells people to endure the economic problems of the present in exchange for the hope of a perfect world in the afterlife.  Marx says this is a false solution, not only because God doesn’t really exist, but also because religion acts like a sedative drug, tranquilizing people so that they don’t try to make the present world better.  Marx said the true solution is for the poor and oppressed to take up arms and revolt against their oppressors in order to bring in the next stage of evolution, which is a perfect Communist society in which all private property is abolished and everyone works for the good of others.  Marx’s ideas were put into practice throughout the 20^th century, resulting in a massive loss of life (because any action that promoted Communism was considered justified, no matter how violent). Source of “cost”: The Black Book of Communism. 25 mil died in USSR; 65 mil in China; 1.7 mil in Cambodia; etc.

Revolutions inspired by Marx led to the establishment of Communist governments across the globe in the 20^th century.  By the end of the 1980s and the beginning of the 1990s, however, many of these governments, especially in Eastern Europe, collapsed.  Marx’s philosophy proved to be unlivable in practice.   In modified form, however, Marx’s philosophy lives on in East Asia, most notably in China and North Korea.