Moral responsibility

[The Real timschochet 6,574]

The news that 6 of the hostages were found dead is horrible. But I’ve also been irritated by some of the reactions: 

1. On CNN I watched a guy blame Netanyahu. 

2. On Meet the Press I watched Tom Cotton blame Biden and Harris for not supporting Israel enough. 
 

3. On a progressive radio station I heard a dude blame Trump for encouraging Netanyahu to ignore Biden. 
 

These responses from both left and right are a product of our age of moral relativism. So let’s be very clear. Some or all of the above people may have made mistakes depending on your point of view. But NONE of them are to blame for this. 
 

Hamas is to blame for this. Full stop. They are evil. They are terrorist. How we should respond to them is open to reasonable debate. But they are ones responsible. 

[Strike 5,367]

And yet CNN says Hersh-Goldberg Polin "has died."   Nothing about how he was brutally murdered by Hamas.  But yeah, no bias there.  Oh wait.  NBC too.  Any others?  Let's see. 

 

 

 

 

And our Vacationer in Chief says he " worked tirelessly to bring their beloved Hersh safely to them and am heartbroken by the news of his death. "   Anyone believe that?   No wonder Tim is such a fan.  They're both devout liars.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

A thread on morals, coming to you from the guy who minimizes, excuses, and blames criminal activity on others.  The same guy who believes in abortion up until the moment of birth?  Who believes that we have a moral obligation to let in anyone who wants to come into this country, and receive free healthcare and all sorts of other welfare benefits?

Sorry, but it’s laughable.

[Strike 5,367]

3 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

A thread on morals, coming to you from the guy who minimizes, excuses, and blames criminal activity on others.  The same guy who believes in abortion up until the moment of birth?  Who believes that we have a moral obligation to let in anyone who wants to come into this country, and receive free healthcare and all sorts of other welfare benefits?

Sorry, but it’s laughable.

You forgot - The guy who happily exploits illegals to do the menial labor he is too far above them to do.   And the guy who has joined the long list of FFT welchers. 

[The Real timschochet 6,574]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

You forgot - The guy who happily exploits illegals to do the menial labor he is too far above them to do.   And the guy who has joined the long list of FFT welchers. 

I have never welched on anyone. And feel free to attack me all you want for my views on undocumented immigrants. I stand by all of those. And they have nothing to do with this topic. 

[The Real timschochet 6,574]

10 minutes ago, Strike said:

And yet CNN says Hersh-Goldberg Polin "has died."   Nothing about how he was brutally murdered by Hamas.  But yeah, no bias there.  Oh wait.  NBC too.  Any others?  Let's see. 

 

 

 

 

And our Vacationer in Chief says he " worked tirelessly to bring their beloved Hersh safely to them and am heartbroken by the news of his death. "   Anyone believe that?   No wonder Tim is such a fan.  They're both devout liars.

This is a good example of what I’m talking about: in order, you attack the MSM, President Biden, and myself. 

[Strike 5,367]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I have never welched on anyone. And feel free to attack me all you want for my views on undocumented immigrants. I stand by all of those. And they have nothing to do with this topic. 

The topic is "Moral Responsibility."  It says so right in the title.   Try reading it, Welcher.

[Strike 5,367]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

This is a good example of what I’m talking about: in order, you attack the MSM, President Biden, and myself. 

Yes, because none of those entities deserves to start a thread called "Moral Responsibility."  When you start showing some you can start the thread.  Until then, fock off WELCHER.

[seafoam1 2,891]

31 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The news that 6 of the hostages were found dead is horrible. But I’ve also been irritated by some of the reactions: 

1. On CNN I watched a guy blame Netanyahu. 

2. On Meet the Press I watched Tom Cotton blame Biden and Harris for not supporting Israel enough. 
 

3. On a progressive radio station I heard a dude blame Trump for encouraging Netanyahu to ignore Biden. 
 

These responses from both left and right are a product of our age of moral relativism. So let’s be very clear. Some or all of the above people may have made mistakes depending on your point of view. But NONE of them are to blame for this. 
 

Hamas is to blame for this. Full stop. They are evil. They are terrorist. How we should respond to them is open to reasonable debate. But they are ones responsible. 

Troll. Liberals have zero morals. You are a commie.

[The Real timschochet 6,574]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Yes, because none of those entities deserves to start a thread called "Moral Responsibility."  When you start showing some you can start the thread.  Until then, fock off WELCHER.

You know what’s so sad and pathetic? I KNOW that you and @Patented Phil agree with me about what I wrote in the opening post. But you can’t bring yourself to acknowledge it. You can’t write “I disagree with Tim on most issues but he’s got this one right.” You can’t bring yourself to do it because your dislike of me is so great, or your tribalism is so strong, or a combination of both. So you feel the need to attack me instead. And that’s really sad. Not at all surprising coming from you but sad. I hope and pray I’m never like you. 

[seafoam1 2,891]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You know what’s so sad and pathetic? I KNOW that you and @Patented Phil agree with me about what I wrote in the opening post. But you can’t bring yourself to acknowledge it. You can’t write “I disagree with Tim on most issues but he’s got this one right.” You can’t bring yourself to do it because your dislike of me is so great, or your tribalism is so strong, or a combination of both. So you feel the need to attack me instead. And that’s really sad. Not at all surprising coming from you but sad. I hope and pray I’m never like you. 

People dislike you because you are a terrible person. Just own it.

[Strike 5,367]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You know what’s so sad and pathetic? I KNOW that you and @Patented Phil agree with me about what I wrote in the opening post. But you can’t bring yourself to acknowledge it. You can’t write “I disagree with Tim on most issues but he’s got this one right.” You can’t bring yourself to do it because your dislike of me is so great, or your tribalism is so strong, or a combination of both. So you feel the need to attack me instead. And that’s really sad. Not at all surprising coming from you but sad. I hope and pray I’m never like you. 

I don't believe that by noon on a Sunday you've already watched CNN, NBC, and listened to progressive radio.  You probably read some headlines on a lefty hack website and had to come here and post about them, just like you read some hack article on Benzingay earlier instead of doing actual research in to the data and methodology that Nate Silver uses to generate his predictions.  And if you did watch CNN, NBC, and listen to progressive radio by noon on Sunday you live an unbelievably pathetic existence.

[easilyscan 908]

43 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The news that 6 of the hostages were found dead is horrible. But I’ve also been irritated by some of the reactions: 

1. On CNN I watched a guy blame Netanyahu. 

2. On Meet the Press I watched Tom Cotton blame Biden and Harris for not supporting Israel enough. 
 

3. On a progressive radio station I heard a dude blame Trump for encouraging Netanyahu to ignore Biden. 
 

These responses from both left and right are a product of our age of moral relativism. So let’s be very clear. Some or all of the above people may have made mistakes depending on your point of view. But NONE of them are to blame for this. 
 

Hamas is to blame for this. Full stop. They are evil. They are terrorist. How we should respond to them is open to reasonable debate. But they are ones responsible. 

I'll go with #1

That guy has been around since Netscape was a thing, & someone joked that he was the result of a Netscape & Yahoo merger.

That's not an attempt at humor. Tired of the US being blamed for everything that goes wrong around the world. We have our own problems. 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

41 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You know what’s so sad and pathetic? I KNOW that you and @Patented Phil agree with me about what I wrote in the opening post. But you can’t bring yourself to acknowledge it. You can’t write “I disagree with Tim on most issues but he’s got this one right.” You can’t bring yourself to do it because your dislike of me is so great, or your tribalism is so strong, or a combination of both. So you feel the need to attack me instead. And that’s really sad. Not at all surprising coming from you but sad. I hope and pray I’m never like you. 

It’s not that I don’t like you.  I kind of do, actually.  But your moral positions are at times bordering on evil.  And I can’t overlook that. 

[jerryskids 6,692]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

The news that 6 of the hostages were found dead is horrible. But I’ve also been irritated by some of the reactions: 

1. On CNN I watched a guy blame Netanyahu. 

2. On Meet the Press I watched Tom Cotton blame Biden and Harris for not supporting Israel enough. 
 

3. On a progressive radio station I heard a dude blame Trump for encouraging Netanyahu to ignore Biden. 
 

These responses from both left and right are a product of our age of moral relativism. So let’s be very clear. Some or all of the above people may have made mistakes depending on your point of view. But NONE of them are to blame for this. 
 

Hamas is to blame for this. Full stop. They are evil. They are terrorist. How we should respond to them is open to reasonable debate. But they are ones responsible. 

I find such posts from you frustrating.  I'd like to think that you realize that the Left and MSM has failed with these hostages, but you just can't help with the "both sides are bad" stuff.  Oh well, at least you acknowledge that Hamas is an evil terrorist organization.

There is no moral relativism issue with this conflict.  It is the most clear, obvious, morally absolute support decision in the history of conflicts.  Hamas is evil, they must be destroyed.  20 years ago Palestinians were given the freedom to elect leaders, and they chose Hamas, whose stated charter remains the elimination of all Jews worldwide.  20 years later, Gaza is still a shiot hole mired in the 1200s.  And if given the freedom to elect leaders again, the polling shows that the vast majority of Palestinians would choose... Hamas again.

When I hear "Free Palestine!", I always respond in my head, "from Hamas!"

Biden/Harris is absolutely culpable for forcing Israel to slow-play this, presumably to win the votes of a cohort of terrorist-lovers in Michigan.  That shows a severe lack of moral compass. 

Similarly, the MSM issuing reports en masse that Hersh "has died" in the headline shows a lack of moral compass from our media.  He was brutally executed, say the words MSM.

Had Israel been given the support and freedom to do what is needed, this conflict would be over by now.  Yes, more Palestinians would be dead.  Some innocents, many supporters.  Many babies.  That's unfortunate, but war is ugly.  But it is the only way this ends with the hope that what rises from the ashes is actually a productive, safe, prosperous region.  Currently this slow-play leads us to a path of... what exactly?

[The Real timschochet 6,574]

39 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I find such posts from you frustrating.  I'd like to think that you realize that the Left and MSM has failed with these hostages, but you just can't help with the "both sides are bad" stuff.  Oh well, at least you acknowledge that Hamas is an evil terrorist organization.

There is no moral relativism issue with this conflict.  It is the most clear, obvious, morally absolute support decision in the history of conflicts.  Hamas is evil, they must be destroyed.  20 years ago Palestinians were given the freedom to elect leaders, and they chose Hamas, whose stated charter remains the elimination of all Jews worldwide.  20 years later, Gaza is still a shiot hole mired in the 1200s.  And if given the freedom to elect leaders again, the polling shows that the vast majority of Palestinians would choose... Hamas again.

When I hear "Free Palestine!", I always respond in my head, "from Hamas!"

Biden/Harris is absolutely culpable for forcing Israel to slow-play this, presumably to win the votes of a cohort of terrorist-lovers in Michigan.  That shows a severe lack of moral compass. 

Similarly, the MSM issuing reports en masse that Hersh "has died" in the headline shows a lack of moral compass from our media.  He was brutally executed, say the words MSM.

Had Israel been given the support and freedom to do what is needed, this conflict would be over by now.  Yes, more Palestinians would be dead.  Some innocents, many supporters.  Many babies.  That's unfortunate, but war is ugly.  But it is the only way this ends with the hope that what rises from the ashes is actually a productive, safe, prosperous region.  Currently this slow-play leads us to a path of... what exactly?

It will come as no surprise to you that I strongly disagree with your opinion of how we should have handled this affair. I think the exact opposite: that we should have put MORE pressure on Netanyahu and Israel not less. I think that letting Israel do what it wanted would have resulted in more death and destruction and no solution at all and no safety for Israel. We are at complete odds here. 
 

However, this all misses the point I was trying to mistake. You can blame Biden and I can blame Netanyahu but neither is responsible for these deaths. The moral responsibility is with the terrorists , not the civilized people who try to deal with them. No matter what errors we make we are not the culprits. They are. That was my point. 

[The Real timschochet 6,574]

45 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

It’s not that I don’t like you.  I kind of do, actually.  But your moral positions are at times bordering on evil.  And I can’t overlook that. 

This gets to the heart of the thread. I think you misuse the word “evil” here. Evil is a deliberate attempt to do malice to others. I can assure you with 100% sincerity that I have no such motive. I honestly believe that my views will bring about good results without bringing harm to others. I could be wrong about that; I’m sure you believe I am. But if I’m wrong it’s not deliberate. Likewise I feel the same about you. I have read your views and I think many of them are wrongheaded and would bring real problems and in some instances potential catastrophe to this country if they were ever enacted. But I don’t believe that they are evil and I don’t think you are evil. 

Evil is Hamas and Hitler and Stalin and Charles Manson, Pol Pot, etc. The word has no place in a discussion between American liberals and conservatives. Neither Joe Biden, nor Donald Trump, nor any American politician of consequence in our history, has been evil. 

[seafoam1 2,891]

19 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

This gets to the heart of the thread. I think you misuse the word “evil” here. Evil is a deliberate attempt to do malice to others. I can assure you with 100% sincerity that I have no such motive. I honestly believe that my views will bring about good results without bringing harm to others. I could be wrong about that; I’m sure you believe I am. But if I’m wrong it’s not deliberate. Likewise I feel the same about you. I have read your views and I think many of them are wrongheaded and would bring real problems and in some instances potential catastrophe to this country if they were ever enacted. But I don’t believe that they are evil and I don’t think you are evil. 

Evil is Hamas and Hitler and Stalin and Charles Manson, Pol Pot, etc. The word has no place in a discussion between American liberals and conservatives. Neither Joe Biden, nor Donald Trump, nor any American politician of consequence in our history, has been evil. 

And liberals. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,884]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

And they have nothing to do with this topic. 

It is crazy how CNN and MSNBC won't denounce Hamas or even mention them in a negative light. Do you see where this Country is going? 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

45 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

This gets to the heart of the thread. I think you misuse the word “evil” here. Evil is a deliberate attempt to do malice to others. I can assure you with 100% sincerity that I have no such motive. I honestly believe that my views will bring about good results without bringing harm to others. I could be wrong about that; I’m sure you believe I am. But if I’m wrong it’s not deliberate. Likewise I feel the same about you. I have read your views and I think many of them are wrongheaded and would bring real problems and in some instances potential catastrophe to this country if they were ever enacted. But I don’t believe that they are evil and I don’t think you are evil. 

Evil is Hamas and Hitler and Stalin and Charles Manson, Pol Pot, etc. The word has no place in a discussion between American liberals and conservatives. Neither Joe Biden, nor Donald Trump, nor any American politician of consequence in our history, has been evil. 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Nomad99 719]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

 You can’t write “I disagree with Tim on most issues but he’s got this one right.” You can’t bring yourself to do it because your dislike of me is so great, or your tribalism is so strong, or a combination of both. So you feel the need to attack me instead. And that’s really sad.

I couldn't sum up better, what the left has done to trump.......bravo

Other than that.....you posting a thread about moral responsibility is like Jeffrey Dahmer working for the food network. 

[easilyscan 908]

6 minutes ago, Nomad99 said:

you posting a thread about moral responsibility is like Jeffrey Dahmer working for the food network. 

A+

What did Jeffrey Dahmer say to Lorena Bobbitt ?

You gonna eat that ?

[jerryskids 6,692]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

It will come as no surprise to you that I strongly disagree with your opinion of how we should have handled this affair. I think the exact opposite: that we should have put MORE pressure on Netanyahu and Israel not less. I think that letting Israel do what it wanted would have resulted in more death and destruction and no solution at all and no safety for Israel. We are at complete odds here. 
 

However, this all misses the point I was trying to mistake. You can blame Biden and I can blame Netanyahu but neither is responsible for these deaths. The moral responsibility is with the terrorists , not the civilized people who try to deal with them. No matter what errors we make we are not the culprits. They are. That was my point. 

We agree on Hamas.

So, what is the end game with Hamas in your scenario?

[weepaws 3,160]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

This gets to the heart of the thread. I think you misuse the word “evil” here. Evil is a deliberate attempt to do malice to others. I can assure you with 100% sincerity that I have no such motive. I honestly believe that my views will bring about good results without bringing harm to others. I could be wrong about that; I’m sure you believe I am. But if I’m wrong it’s not deliberate. Likewise I feel the same about you. I have read your views and I think many of them are wrongheaded and would bring real problems and in some instances potential catastrophe to this country if they were ever enacted. But I don’t believe that they are evil and I don’t think you are evil. 

Evil is Hamas and Hitler and Stalin and Charles Manson, Pol Pot, etc. The word has no place in a discussion between American liberals and conservatives. Neither Joe Biden, nor Donald Trump, nor any American politician of consequence in our history, has been evil. 

Evil is anyone against God, and you’re.  

[The Real timschochet 6,574]

25 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

We agree on Hamas.

So, what is the end game with Hamas in your scenario?

Hamas can only be ultimately destroyed by the Palestinian people. And that can only happen when the Palestinian people have economic stability, freedom, and a certain level of pride. 
Therefore IMO the end game is a 3 state solution. My model is a miniature version of the  British Raj in 1948: 

India = Israel 

The West Bank = Pakistan 

Gaza = Bangladesh 

[shadrap 226]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

The news that 6 of the hostages were found dead is horrible. But I’ve also been irritated by some of the reactions: 

1. On CNN I watched a guy blame Netanyahu. 

2. On Meet the Press I watched Tom Cotton blame Biden and Harris for not supporting Israel enough. 
 

3. On a progressive radio station I heard a dude blame Trump for encouraging Netanyahu to ignore Biden. 
 

These responses from both left and right are a product of our age of moral relativism. So let’s be very clear. Some or all of the above people may have made mistakes depending on your point of view. But NONE of them are to blame for this. 
 

Hamas is to blame for this. Full stop. They are evil. They are terrorist. How we should respond to them is open to reasonable debate. But they are ones responsible. 

I'm of the belief that we should have exerted more pressure on Hamas; in that you are dealing with Israel, but you have American hostages.  Release the hostages, all of them or we vaporize you.

simple as that.

so yea, I blame it on Biden/Harris.

[shadrap 226]

Just now, shadrap said:

I'm of the belief that we should have exerted more pressure on Hamas; in that you are dealing with Israel, but you have American hostages.  Release the hostages, all of them or we vaporize you.

simple as that.

so yea, I blame it on Biden/Harris.

Reason Biden/Harris didn't do that?  Votes.

[shadrap 226]

Just now, shadrap said:

Reason Biden/Harris didn't do that?  Votes.

Votes are now more important than lives.  Let that sink in.

[jerryskids 6,692]

45 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Hamas can only be ultimately destroyed by the Palestinian people. And that can only happen when the Palestinian people have economic stability, freedom, and a certain level of pride. 
Therefore IMO the end game is a 3 state solution. My model is a miniature version of the  British Raj in 1948: 

India = Israel 

The West Bank = Pakistan 

Gaza = Bangladesh 

Did you read my earlier post?  Gaza was given freedom 20 years ago, they chose Hamas. And would again today. They don't want economic stability and freedom. They want hate and barbaric behavior. 

[Mark Davis 378]

23 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Did you read my earlier post?  Gaza was given freedom 20 years ago, they chose Hamas. And would again today. They don't want economic stability and freedom. They want hate and barbaric behavior. 

That's the issue.  All of the protesters, I agree with what they want, the return of the hostages in return for peace.  But Hamas has shown there will be no peace.  There was a peace deal before their assault.  The reason the earlier cease-fire for hostages ended was they didn't have enough alive hostages to continue trading.  Their sentiment is correct, but the reality is Hamas isn't someone you can make a deal with.

[seafoam1 2,891]

3 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

That's the issue.  All of the protesters, I agree with what they want, the return of the hostages in return for peace.  But Hamas has shown there will be no peace.  There was a peace deal before their assault.  The reason the earlier cease-fire for hostages ended was they didn't have enough alive hostages to continue trading.  Their sentiment is correct, but the reality is Hamas isn't someone you can make a deal with.

It's called weak creepy Joe. 

 

[The Real timschochet 6,574]

3 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Did you read my earlier post?  Gaza was given freedom 20 years ago, they chose Hamas. And would again today. They don't want economic stability and freedom. They want hate and barbaric behavior. 

They were given a level of political freedom, but they didn’t have economic freedom. They were prevented from freedom of movement, from agriculture, from industry, from trade. Their cities were (are) overcrowded and hopeless. There is no means of social mobility, no sense of economic stability. Under such conditions we would also elect extreme radicals who promised a violent solution. 

[edjr 6,579]

this thread worked out well

[edjr 6,579]

6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

This gets to the heart of the thread. I think you misuse the word “evil” here. Evil is a deliberate attempt to do malice to others. I can assure you with 100% sincerity that I have no such motive. I honestly believe that my views will bring about good results without bringing harm to others. I could be wrong about that; I’m sure you believe I am. But if I’m wrong it’s not deliberate. Likewise I feel the same about you. I have read your views and I think many of them are wrongheaded and would bring real problems and in some instances potential catastrophe to this country if they were ever enacted. But I don’t believe that they are evil and I don’t think you are evil. 

Evil is Hamas and Hitler and Stalin and Charles Manson, Pol Pot, etc. The word has no place in a discussion between American liberals and conservatives. Neither Joe Biden, nor Donald Trump, nor any American politician of consequence in our history, has been evil. 

Tim you can’t be that naive. You, like cnn and msnbc and the rest, intentionally overlook and deflect

[seafoam1 2,891]

42 minutes ago, edjr said:

Tim you can’t be that naive. You, like cnn and msnbc and the rest, intentionally overlook and deflect

You are as bad as the liberals. Dumbass. He's a troll. 

[posty 2,662]

The irony…

[Tree of Knowledge 1,782]

Reality is if the 2020 election had not been stolen from Father Trump, none of this would have happened 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,192]

I was someone else’s daughters brutally raped and murdered  by Hamas. So it Doesn’t register with Tim.   

[Tree of Knowledge 1,782]

8 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I was someone else’s daughters brutally raped and murdered  by Hamas. So it Doesn’t register with Tim.   

Tim is able to rationalize it as a really late term abortion.  Sad!!!!

[HellToupee 1,674]

16 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Evil is Hamas and Hitler and Stalin and Charles Manson, Pol Pot, etc. The word has no place in a discussion between American liberals and conservatives. Neither Joe Biden, nor Donald Trump, nor any American politician of consequence in our history, has been evil.

Do you think that MSM & SM have done damage to the country and the world pushing  out the Trump is evil etc propaganda. Posters here and at the other place as well as you yourself have peddled this garbage . Look at what your little pissboy posts here from twitter. . The MSM along with social media have warped the minds