LIBERATION DAY: USA and China agree to a 90 day pause on most new tariffs

[iam90sbaby 2,503]

2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I agree it wasn’t an oversight. Trump specifically excluding Russia & Belarus is in keeping with Trump’s fealty to Moscow. There’s no other explanation for it.

So?

[SaintsInDome2006 421]

Just now, iam90sbaby said:

So?

I’m not attacking your values, just explaining why it happened.

[Dizkneelande 1,088]

31 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

It’s just funny to me he thought something so obvious would be overlooked lol like cmon man 

Everyone is an international trade and macroeconomic expert now

[The Psychic Observer 498]

35 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

Everyone is an international trade and macroeconomic expert now

You don't need to be an expert to know this is stupid.

[CaptainObvious1 333]

49 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I agree it wasn’t an oversight. Trump specifically excluding Russia & Belarus is in keeping with Trump’s fealty to Moscow. There’s no other explanation for it.

Big focking deal.  Biden funneled money to other countries to line Hunter's pockets.  You didn't say sh!t then so STFU now.

[Engorgeous George 2,172]

So.  I wonder how the world is percieving all of this today.  The first reaction seems to have been anger and national pride.  Anger because this will hurt their economies and national pride because they will not be dictated to by the orange narcissist.  Still, at some point they are going to be confronted with their own shrinking versions of their 401K's.  Will they thenbe willing to reevaluate their policies to get a bit of a return to some normalcy?  will they make some concessions?  It is difficult to say.  I live in the American bubble so i see how unhappy we are with our markets tumbling.  I can only wonder how others around the world feel and are reacting.  Sure, I can look at their news feeds but that is a far cry from hearing neighbors and friends reacting over dinner, at workor out and about.

[MLCKAA 550]

In this thread, what I’m hearing from some is that returning manufacturing to the US will be  very difficult and take a long time, so we should not try.

Maybe we should just ask China to annex us?

[SaintsInDome2006 421]

18 minutes ago, CaptainObvious1 said:

Biden funneled money to other countries to line Hunter's pockets.  You didn't say sh!t then…

My understanding of what you’re saying is that we should support Trump’s aligning the US with the Kremlin. Got it. I disagree.

Fwiw Hunter Biden was investigated & indicted by a Trump appointed prosecutor, his case was assigned to 2 Trump appointed judges, both of whom convicted him. I have no problem with any of that. AG Bondi could still indict other people involved in the Burisma deal as well.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

4 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

In this thread, what I’m hearing from some is that returning manufacturing to the US will be  very difficult and take a long time, so we should not try.

Maybe we should just ask China to annex us?

Two things here.  Whether or not we should try to be the world's manufacturing giant is up for debate.  I don't see why that would be good for America but please explain to me the case for this.

The second point is even if you believe we should be a manufacturing giant, why is this tariff policy the best way to achieve that?  Aren't there better methods to grow manufacturing domestically?

[The Real timschochet 6,536]

8 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

 Will they then be willing to reevaluate their policies to get a bit of a return to some normalcy?  will they make some concessions?  

These two questions represent the flawed thinking that so many folks still have about this whole affair. Trump’s action was not caused by the policies of other nations. For many of them there is no concession that they can make that would  change anything, because the tariffs are based on trade deficits, not on reciprocal tariffs. 
This doesn’t end with other nations changing policies or giving in to our demands- we don’t have any demands. It ends when we decide to go back to what was previously status quo. 

[Engorgeous George 2,172]

15 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

These two questions represent the flawed thinking that so many folks still have about this whole affair. Trump’s action was not caused by the policies of other nations. For many of them there is no concession that they can make that would  change anything, because the tariffs are based on trade deficits, not on reciprocal tariffs. 
This doesn’t end with other nations changing policies or giving in to our demands- we don’t have any demands. It ends when we decide to go back to what was previously status quo. 

For some of them is far more accurate.  

 

Because in some instances, many perhaps, the tariffs are partially based upon trade deficits would be far more accurate.

 

My thinking was not flawed.  i have already acknowledged the defects, from your point of view and mine as well in Trump's structuring of these tariffs.  In fact i set out those difficulties or what I would term flaws before you did so in your more univiersal opposition to all things Trumpublican.  My post ws in recognition that across the seas we have counterparts, real people with real needs and real fears, just like us, who are being effected, just like us, and who may pressure their governments, just like us, for action.

 

My position on tariffs is that if they are indeed reciprocal in the strictest interpretation of that term, and if we understand that some protectionism by foriegn countries not based on trade concerns or industry concerns but on legitimate health concerns will not be overturned by tariffs but by cahnging American food production standards and practicesd, that reciprocal tariffs are justified.  They may be the only way to keep others from seeking unfair advantgqage.  Tehy will not give us advantage, we will suffer, but they will prevent long term suffering of unfair imbalance being institutionalized. 

[Engorgeous George 2,172]

Off to shovel the snow and then to the gym.  I am somewhat bouyed this morning in that my investment losses are not to a portion equal to the market drops.  I got hit, but not hurt, thus far.  If the costs of Trump's policies stop where they are right now I can bear it.  I am not convinced, however, that the total loss is yet known.  Maybe Monday will give us some indication.

[CaptainObvious1 333]

40 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

My understanding of what you’re saying is that we should support Trump’s aligning the US with the Kremlin. Got it. I disagree.

Fwiw Hunter Biden was investigated & indicted by a Trump appointed prosecutor, his case was assigned to 2 Trump appointed judges, both of whom convicted him. I have no problem with any of that. AG Bondi could still indict other people involved in the Burisma deal as well.

My understanding is you're about 3 levels dumber than the average retard.

[Strike 5,277]

19 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Off to shovel the snow and then to the gym.  I am somewaht bouyed this morning in that my investment losses are not to a protion equal to the market drops.  I got hit, but not hurt, thus far.  if the costs of Trump's policies stop where they are right now I can bear it.  I am not convinced, however, taht cthe total ost is yet known.  Maybe Monday will give us some indication.

This is a good post/point.  I just checked a couple of my investment accounts and I got hit as well but the losses are relatively benign in the grand scheme of things.  Probably the result of a balanced portfolio amongst other things.  I'd be curious how much in losses the chicken little's in this thread have taken on.  In some cases, I suspect 0% of 0 is 0.

[blick 35]

1 hour ago, MLCKAA said:

In this thread, what I’m hearing from some is that returning manufacturing to the US will be  very difficult and take a long time, so we should not try.

Maybe we should just ask China to annex us?

I have no idea if this is the correct path or not. I have to think there are very smart people preparing these plans. 
 

I think they may have underestimated the unwillingness of this country to make any sacrifice, even for a short period of time, for the greater good.  Previous generations would be ashamed. 

[The Psychic Observer 498]

7 minutes ago, blick said:

I have no idea if this is the correct path or not. I have to think there are very smart people preparing these plans. 
 

I think they may have underestimated the unwillingness of this country to make any sacrifice, even for a short period of time, for the greater good.  Previous generations would be ashamed. 

What is the greater good?

Personally I think previous generations would be ashamed that we elected an autocrat and allowed him to break the law and the Constitution including sending legal residents to foreign prisons, extortion of private business and elimination of services that save lives here and globally.

I don't see how accepting losing your retirement savings, losing your job and paying extraordinary taxes is for the greater good but please enlighten me.

[jerryskids 6,597]

15 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Yes, folks please pay $2300 for your new iPhone while you wait 15 years for Apple to build new factories here. And btw they will still cost $2300 and maybe more because our workers demand higher pay.

Forbes is not liberal. It's just business.

Adding 10% per pill, nearly $1 billion more in drug costs is definitely pro-pharma - let's face it folks all these big industries are more than happy to charge more for everything - but that's Trump's doing.

 

12 hours ago, Horseman said:

How many iPhones do you buy 15 years dumbass? I'll gladly pay more for a couple phones to get manufacturing here.  I'm a patriot.   

And it doesn't take 15 years to build a factory. More like 5.  And the tariffs aren't 130%.  JFC hyperventilating Helen.    

I'll also pay that extra hundred bucks for the new dishwasher!!!!  BFD.  

I just wanted to point out that Apple could build a factory in 15 months, not 15 years.  All the factory does is final assembly and test.  The real heavy lifting is in making the advanced semiconductors within the phone.  Also other components like the special glass and advanced printed circuit boards.  Apple doesn't manufacture those, at least the semiconductors.

[blick 35]

4 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

What is the greater good?

Personally I think previous generations would be ashamed that we elected an autocrat and allowed him to break the law and the Constitution including sending legal residents to foreign prisons, extortion of private business and elimination of services that save lives here and globally.

I don't see how accepting losing your retirement savings, losing your job and paying extraordinary taxes is for the greater good but please enlighten me.

I’ll ignore the first paragraph since it has nothing to do with this topic.
 

This debt is unsustainable. There has to be a reckoning. Would you rather keep the status quo and continue to borrow from the future and just let it collapse at some point or make sacrifices now that may start to balance spending/revenues?   
 

 

[Tree of Knowledge 1,733]

29 minutes ago, blick said:

I have no idea if this is the correct path or not. I have to think there are very smart people preparing these plans. 
 

I think they may have underestimated the unwillingness of this country to make any sacrifice, even for a short period of time, for the greater good.  Previous generations would be ashamed. 

Well put. 

[Strike 5,277]

15 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

What is the greater good?

Personally I think previous generations would be ashamed that we elected an autocrat and allowed him to break the law and the Constitution including sending legal residents to foreign prisons, extortion of private business and elimination of services that save lives here and globally.

I don't see how accepting losing your retirement savings, losing your job and paying extraordinary taxes is for the greater good but please enlighten me.

Your "autocrat" hyperbole aside, do you think we would be less embarrassed electing someone who hadn't received even one primary vote and in fact had dropped out of the previous Presidential election because she couldn't even win a delegate in her own state?  IOW, No process was followed for her to win the nomination.  She was simply declared as the candidate.  You think that would be LESS embarrassing?  At least Trump was duly elected with established process.

[Strike 5,277]

20 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

I just wanted to point out that Apple could build a factory in 15 months, not 15 years.  All the factory does is final assembly and test.  The real heavy lifting is in making the advanced semiconductors within the phone.  Also other components like the special glass and advanced printed circuit boards.  Apple doesn't manufacture those, at least the semiconductors.

And in reality, they could probably retrofit an existing vacant building and/or build a temporary one until they can build a permanent one.  Musk did that with Tesla:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/06/elon-musk-lauds-new-temporary-assembly-tent-as-factory-2-0-awaits/

It's amazing the things Musk has been able to do in his career that Libs believe to be impossible.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

14 minutes ago, blick said:

I’ll ignore the first paragraph since it has nothing to do with this topic.
 

This debt is unsustainable. There has to be a reckoning. Would you rather keep the status quo and continue to borrow from the future and just let it collapse at some point or make sacrifices now that may start to balance spending/revenues?   
 

 

Agreed that the debt is unsustainable and needs to be addressed.  I just strongly disagree that tariffs are the way to do it.  We need to grow the economy, cut spending and increase revenues.  We're doing the opposite.

[Gepetto 1,304]

Musk is stepping away from DOJ in May.

[HellToupee 1,616]

Let’s just print more money 

[Strike 5,277]

6 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Agreed that the debt is unsustainable and needs to be addressed.  I just strongly disagree that tariffs are the way to do it.  We need to grow the economy, cut spending and increase revenues.  We're doing the opposite.

So you're in favor of DOGE?

[Strike 5,277]

6 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

Musk is stepping away from DOJ in May.

Musk is a lawyer now?  That dude can do anything!!!!  

[MDC 7,172]

Massive protest in center city Philly today. Seems to be a lot of out of town res and older folks / seniors. People are pissed.

[The Real timschochet 6,536]

If the goal is to address  the debt, then there couldn’t be a worse solution than tariffs. 
And coupled with the fact that, in just a few weeks, the Republicans are going to explode the debt to brand new depths by passing a new tax cut, it’s absurd even to bring this topic up. 

[Strike 5,277]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

If the goal is to address  the debt, then there couldn’t be a worse solution than tariffs. 
And coupled with the fact that, in just a few weeks, the Republicans are going to explode the debt to brand new depths by passing a new tax cut, it’s absurd even to bring this topic up. 

So you're in favor of DOGE I assume?

[The Psychic Observer 498]

8 minutes ago, Strike said:

So you're in favor of DOGE?

No.  DOGE is not achieving any meaningful savings and they are operating in a haphazard way.  Anyone who thinks DOGE is saving anything is not informed.  In some ways they have reduced potential revenue with the IRS cuts and research cuts.  DOGE will not be a thing for much longer.  We need to get serious about Social Security, Medicaid/Medicaire, and National Defense.

[The Real timschochet 6,536]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

So you're in favor of DOGE I assume?

In principle yes, in practice no. From what I can observe they used a hammer, not a chisel. 

[Strike 5,277]

ROFLMAO.  The libs say "we should do something" and when someone actually does something they say "No, not that way!!!!".  Well fock, Biden was in office for 4 years.  Obama said he was going to implement some form of DOGE BEFORE he got elected but seemingly forgot that promise AFTER he was elected.  Ya know, if the Dems actually DID SOMETHING we wouldn't be in this mess. 

[The Psychic Observer 498]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

ROFLMAO.  The libs say "we should do something" and when someone actually does something they say "No, not that way!!!!".  Well fock, Biden was in office for 4 years.  Obama said he was going to implement some form of DOGE BEFORE he got elected but seemingly forgot that promise AFTER he was elected.  Ya know, if the Dems actually DID SOMETHING we wouldn't be in this mess. 

It's not a Dem v R thing.  Trump 45 didn't do anything.  W didn't do anything.  The only time we actually got serious was when Clinton and Gingrich worked together and we actually ran in a surplus for a sliver of time.

https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

[Strike 5,277]

8 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

It's not a Dem v R thing.  Trump 45 didn't do anything.  W didn't do anything.  The only time we actually got serious was when Clinton and Gingrich worked together and we actually ran in a surplus for a sliver of time.

https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

Dude's been in office 2 months.  The SKY IS FALLING!!!!!  FFS.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

Dude's been in office 2 months.  The SKY IS FALLING!!!!!  FFS.

You don't study history do you?  The last time this was attempted it didn't go so well.

[The Real timschochet 6,536]

37 minutes ago, Strike said:

ROFLMAO.  The libs say "we should do something" and when someone actually does something they say "No, not that way!!!!".  Well fock, Biden was in office for 4 years.  Obama said he was going to implement some form of DOGE BEFORE he got elected but seemingly forgot that promise AFTER he was elected.  Ya know, if the Dems actually DID SOMETHING we wouldn't be in this mess. 

As usual you refuse to address any of the points raised. Yes we need to do something. We don’t need to make things worse. 
 

The debt is so huge we can’t possibly solve it by cutting spending- we can never cut enough. The only way out is to grow our way out of it- and that means MORE trade not less. 
 

Trump is proposing curtailing trade and increasing the debt through tax cuts, the exact opposite of what we need to do. I pointed this out when he was running for office. Now it’s too late. But please don’t attempt to scold Democrats. We didn’t vote for this moron; you did. Now we all pay the price. 

[MDC 7,172]

Lot of anti-Musk stuff and hands off my social security. I laughed at the Grifter in Chief sign. Folks are starting to get it.

[Grace Under Pressure 74]

So people are agreeing we’re now in a mess. And of course MAGA goes with “it’s the Dems fault”. When it’s literally your guy who just did this.

Fkn lmaooooooo at the dumbest most gullible among us. Never change. 

[jbycho 630]

10 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

So people are agreeing we’re now in a mess. And of course MAGA goes with “it’s the Dems fault”. When it’s literally your guy who just did this.

Fkn lmaooooooo at the dumbest most gullible among us. Never change. 

Ok Rusty. 

[jbycho 630]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

As usual you refuse to address any of the points raised. Yes we need to do something. We don’t need to make things worse. 
 

The debt is so huge we can’t possibly solve it by cutting spending- we can never cut enough. The only way out is to grow our way out of it- and that means MORE trade not less. 
 

Trump is proposing curtailing trade and increasing the debt through tax cuts, the exact opposite of what we need to do. I pointed this out when he was running for office. Now it’s too late. But please don’t attempt to scold Democrats. We didn’t vote for this moron; you did. Now we all pay the price.