Why Blacks Are Poorer than Whites in America || Thomas Sowell

[jerryskids 6,547]

12 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I haven’t watched it yet, but I’ve read plenty of Sowell in the past, so I know the gist. He’s a smart dude and he does makes some good arguments. Problem is he knows his audience (white conservatives) and plays up to them knowing exactly what they want to hear. He’s made a ton of money doing this. 
 

Some of you praising him might be a little chagrined by your “allies” in this thread, @Cdub100 and @iam90sbaby expressing pure unadulterated racism. 

They might be racist in general, but blacks in America...

 

4 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

You are asking for a debate on if blacks have lower IQs than whites?

See yourself out.

...having lower IQ is a confirmable fact.

Quote

African Americans score lower than European Americans on vocabulary, reading, and math tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence. The gap appears before children enter kindergarten and it persists into adulthood. It has narrowed since 1970, but the typical American black still scores below 75 percent of American whites on almost every standardized test. This statistic does not imply, of course, that all blacks score below all whites. There is a lot of overlap between the two groups. Nonetheless, the test score gap is large enough to have significant social and economic consequences.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-black-white-test-score-gap-why-it-persists-and-what-can-be-done/

It's hard to find more recent data because I presume people are afraid to study it.  That being said, I feel like I've read that the gap is closing, but I haven't found a source.  

What is debatable is the cause or causes of the decrease.  Environment seems to be a factor:

Quote

Therefore, the scores in Moore's study were inflated by about 9.947 points. Applying this correction to Moore's data results in average IQs of 93.7 for traditionally adopted black children and 107.2 for the transracially adopted children.

Also, @Horsemanis making the point that there are known physical differences between the ethnicities, and the brain is a physical organ.  I've argued here before that hundreds of years of breeding people for strength and against intelligence is likely to have an evolutionary impact.

Usually this ends with some low-intelligence people from the "party of science" calling me a racist, so I'll stop for now.

ETA:  I've also pointed out multiple times here that Nigerians are the most successful immigrants here.  Also they have a commitment to education, family, and personal responsibility.

[seafoam1 2,797]

Jeez. We all know the truth of things. What's the point of the race baiting liberals moaning about this? 

[edjr 6,578]

where is peenie with her expert, unbiased opinion  

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,236]

So according to Tim. One of the most intelligent well spoken black men in history is just a grifting Uncle Tom trying to make the white man happy 

[squistion 1,942]

35 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

Does Sowell regularly use the term “black” to refer to AA?  I read something he wrote in the 1980’s decrying the term and advocating for “negro” instead.  I didn’t watch the video and haven’t read anything else by him, so just wondering if he acquiesced to usage of “black” or not.

"Negro" was not Politically Correct in the 80's and although it was not considered as pejorative as "colored" you still wouldn't want to refer to anyone Black in their presence as a "negro" as they would probably take offense to it. If Sowell insisted on using the term at that time, he comes across as being either obstinate or tone deaf.

[Sean Mooney 1,935]

I think a more accurate argument than "low IQ" would be the idea of "low income" impacting people heavily. Just seeing it from a student aged side of things one of the biggest determiners in a kid's education is their family income level. Notably because if a parent has to work multiple jobs to support a family there is less time at home reading with, and working with a kid which will lead to lower test scores and more of an educational struggle. That would eventually manifest into perhaps a lower IQ. 

But there are poor white people in that same boat as poor black people even though depending on your area the numbers would skew heavily in one direction or another. 

[RLLD 4,143]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

I think a more accurate argument than "low IQ" would be the idea of "low income" impacting people heavily. Just seeing it from a student aged side of things one of the biggest determiners in a kid's education is their family income level. Notably because if a parent has to work multiple jobs to support a family there is less time at home reading with, and working with a kid which will lead to lower test scores and more of an educational struggle. That would eventually manifest into perhaps a lower IQ. 

But there are poor white people in that same boat as poor black people even though depending on your area the numbers would skew heavily in one direction or another. 

I think you make a salient point.   Children who grow up in a two parent home would likely have better outcomes than those with a single parent; not an absolute, but a reasonable place to start.

If you have two parents, but both parents work two jobs....they arent around as much, so is a zero sum.

If you are the child of parents who have made good life choices you will enjoy a privilege that your friends likely will not.   All of this is certainly reliable in terms of likelihood, but as important is your culture   What does your culture reinforce, celebrate or imbue into you?

Are you taught not to steal? Does your culture celebrate good things or bad things?  Children are a product of their environment to a large extent, and that environment can hide their true ability.

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

2 hours ago, RLLD said:

Would you agree that there is a standing assertion that Trump voters are lower IQ?

No. There is a standing assertion that those without college educations preferred Trump by wide margins. That has nothing to do with intelligence level. 

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

No. There is a standing assertion that those without college educations preferred Trump by wide margins. That has nothing to do with intelligence level. 

Oh, so there is no attempt to correlate their educational status with their intellect then? The measure is...just for "awareness"?

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

34 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

They might be racist in general, but blacks in America...

 

...having lower IQ is a confirmable fact.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-black-white-test-score-gap-why-it-persists-and-what-can-be-done/

It's hard to find more recent data because I presume people are afraid to study it.  That being said, I feel like I've read that the gap is closing, but I haven't found a source.  

What is debatable is the cause or causes of the decrease.  Environment seems to be a factor:

Also, @Horsemanis making the point that there are known physical differences between the ethnicities, and the brain is a physical organ.  I've argued here before that hundreds of years of breeding people for strength and against intelligence is likely to have an evolutionary impact.

Usually this ends with some low-intelligence people from the "party of science" calling me a racist, so I'll stop for now.

ETA:  I've also pointed out multiple times here that Nigerians are the most successful immigrants here.  Also they have a commitment to education, family, and personal responsibility.

Performing lower on tests is certainly a confirmable fact. Having lower IQ is NOT a confirmable fact and I would dispute it rather strongly. I also believe it’s a racist suggestion. Based on your post however, I think you’re simply misusing the phrase “IQ” (at least I hope so.) I don’t give others in this thread that excuse. 

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Oh, so there is no attempt to correlate their educational status with their intellect then? The measure is...just for "awareness"?

I can’t speak for others. Personally I don’t see any correlation. Some of the brightest people I know in my life voted for Trump this time around. I don’t think they’re stupid or unaware, just very wrong. 

[RLLD 4,143]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I can’t speak for others. Personally I don’t see any correlation. Some of the brightest people I know in my life voted for Trump this time around. I don’t think they’re stupid or unaware, just very wrong. 

I see. I wish those leading the Democrat party shared your view. It would help restore them to better health

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

Just now, RLLD said:

I see. I wish those leading the Democrat party shared your view. It would help restore them to better health

Their health will be fine as you will shortly discover. Don’t be deceived by current polling. 2026 is going to be a referendum on Donald Trump and it will be largely negative, which means Democrats will do extremely well. Not because of anything they say or do but simply because they are currently out of power. 

[jerryskids 6,547]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Performing lower on tests is certainly a confirmable fact. Having lower IQ is NOT a confirmable fact and I would dispute it rather strongly. I also believe it’s a racist suggestion. Based on your post however, I think you’re simply misusing the phrase “IQ” (at least I hope so.) I don’t give others in this thread that excuse. 

Wut?  "IQ" is the result of a test, and those results are provably worse for blacks in America.

What I think you are saying is that the IQ test is not a fair proxy for "intelligence," and that if we had such a test, there would be no differences.  It is your prerogative to believe it, although you are doing so in the absence of any evidence and only to support your worldview.    

[RLLD 4,143]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Their health will be fine as you will shortly discover. Don’t be deceived by current polling. 2026 is going to be a referendum on Donald Trump and it will be largely negative, which means Democrats will do extremely well. Not because of anything they say or do but simply because they are currently out of power. 

I disagree. And I would further discourage the recency fallacy.  The party has a problem, multiple in fact, and needs to settle with it radical elements pretty soon.

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I disagree. And I would further discourage the recency fallacy.  The party has a problem, multiple in fact, and needs to settle with it radical elements pretty soon.

We’ll find out. 

[jbycho 579]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Their health will be fine as you will shortly discover. Don’t be deceived by current polling. 2026 is going to be a referendum on Donald Trump and it will be largely negative, which means Democrats will do extremely well. Not because of anything they say or do but simply because they are currently out of power. 

You poor stupid fat old man. 

[squistion 1,942]

9 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I can’t speak for others. Personally I don’t see any correlation. Some of the brightest people I know in my life voted for Trump this time around. I don’t think they’re stupid or unaware, just very wrong. 

He told us before the election what he planned to do.

The Project 2025 Policy Agenda was out there for anyone who wanted to read it.

But people ignored all that and the warnings from Democrats of what a debacle a second Trump term would be.

If those who voted for him weren't dumb or stupid, then they were just willfully ignorant for which there is no excuse.

 

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

2 minutes ago, squistion said:

He told us before the election what he planned to do.

The Project 2025 Policy Agenda was out there for anyone who wanted to read it.

But people ignored all that and the warnings from Democrats of what a debacle a second Trump term would be.

If those who voted for him weren't dumb or stupid, then they were just willfully ignorant for which there is no excuse.

 

I’m not even sure I would call them willfully ignorant. I think many of them made a Faustian bargain: they wanted a better economy and the border under control, and were willing to take the rest of it (or at least didn’t take it seriously.) 

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

14 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Wut?  "IQ" is the result of a test, and those results are provably worse for blacks in America.

What I think you are saying is that the IQ test is not a fair proxy for "intelligence," and that if we had such a test, there would be no differences.  It is your prerogative to believe it, although you are doing so in the absence of any evidence and only to support your worldview.    

OK. I’m not really interested in having this discussion. I could have it at some point with reasonable people such as yourself, but this forum has too many bigots in it who believe that people with black skin have inherently lower intelligence. I know you’re not one of them and that’s enough. Yes black Americans do perform lower on IQ tests. We can disagree on the reasons why. It’s racist to believe that it’s inherent. Let’s leave it at that. 

[Fnord 2,051]

34 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I think a more accurate argument than "low IQ" would be the idea of "low income" impacting people heavily. Just seeing it from a student aged side of things one of the biggest determiners in a kid's education is their family income level. Notably because if a parent has to work multiple jobs to support a family there is less time at home reading with, and working with a kid which will lead to lower test scores and more of an educational struggle. That would eventually manifest into perhaps a lower IQ. 

But there are poor white people in that same boat as poor black people even though depending on your area the numbers would skew heavily in one direction or another. 

THIS X 1000

Have any of you taken an IQ test? While it is a measure of intelligence, it is also a measure of at least a base level of education, and nobody is claiming it's perfect. If support within the home or other caregivers is not present, results will be lower. Many other factors can also influence results.

I will not blindly claim anyone that has this discussion is a racist, though cdub and 90s definitely seem to be, and horsemanure is foul and hateful enough that it wouldn't surprise me. There are valid points here, especially as it pertains to how intentional breeding of slaves affected future generations. I didn't have a problem with the points Sewell brought up, other than it gives those here an opportunity to tout their bigotry.

[MLCKAA 540]

1 hour ago, squistion said:

"Negro" was not Politically Correct in the 80's and although it was not considered as pejorative as "colored" you still wouldn't want to refer to anyone Black in their presence as a "negro" as they would probably take offense to it. If Sowell insisted on using the term at that time, he comes across as being either obstinate or tone deaf.

As I remember it, his points were that AA are not black; that “black” was a derivative of “colored”; and that there was no historical provenance for it, as “black” only gained prominence in the 1960’s from political activism movements.

 Respect that AA find “negro” pejorative, but I won’t say I entirely understand why.  If I were AA, I think I’d prefer something that is more formal sounding in reference of my race than a factually inaccurate description of everyone’s color. They’re not black and their skin tones vary wildly.

[Mike Hunt 261]

1 hour ago, squistion said:

"Negro" was not Politically Correct in the 80's and although it was not considered as pejorative as "colored" you still wouldn't want to refer to anyone Black in their presence as a "negro" as they would probably take offense to it. If Sowell insisted on using the term at that time, he comes across as being either obstinate or tone deaf.

Negroes can use whatever term they want.  

[squistion 1,942]

5 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

As I remember it, his points were that AA are not black; that “black” was a derivative of “colored”; and that there was no historical provenance for it, as “black” only gained prominence in the 1960’s from political activism movements.

Respect that AA find “negro” pejorative, but I won’t say I entirely understand why.  If I were AA, I think I’d prefer something that is more formal sounding in reference of my race than a factually inaccurate description of everyone’s color. They’re not black and their skin tones vary wildly.

It is for the same reason that "homosexual" became unacceptable to gay men and the term "gay" was adopted instead.

As it has been explained to me, there is nothing wrong, per se, with the terms "colored" or "Negro" it is just that over the years these words became loaded with additional meaning and when they heard non-Black folks use it to describe them it was often seemed to have an animus to it.

[HB Localboy 121]

3 hours ago, squistion said:

Jeebus. I thought the "Blacks are dumb" belief was a thing of the past, but I guess not.

If it's true, it's true!  

[HB Localboy 121]

https://ibb.co/tT0NSYrz

 

Two finger plus two finger = four finger

[Mike Hunt 261]

4 hours ago, squistion said:

It is for the same reason that "homosexual" became unacceptable to gay men and the term "gay" was adopted instead.

As it has been explained to me, there is nothing wrong, per se, with the terms "colored" or "Negro" it is just that over the years these words became loaded with additional meaning and when they heard non-Black folks use it to describe them it was often seemed to have an animus to it.

Just a word.  As you well know the term "Queer" in now OK and back in vogue after being unacceptable,

[HB Localboy 121]

4 hours ago, HB Localboy said:

https://ibb.co/tT0NSYrz

I think I found Peenie

 

[MLCKAA 540]

6 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

I think a more accurate argument than "low IQ" would be the idea of "low income" impacting people heavily. Just seeing it from a student aged side of things one of the biggest determiners in a kid's education is their family income level. Notably because if a parent has to work multiple jobs to support a family there is less time at home reading with, and working with a kid which will lead to lower test scores and more of an educational struggle. That would eventually manifest into perhaps a lower IQ. 

But there are poor white people in that same boat as poor black people even though depending on your area the numbers would skew heavily in one direction or another. 

Not the point you’re making, but I’ve insisted for years that racial inequality is far less a social problem than economic inequality.

[HB Localboy 121]

FAMOUS QUOTE:

 

Since the dawn of history the Negr0 has owned the Continent of Africa—rich beyond the dream of poet’s fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet. Yet he never picked one up from the dust until a white man showed to him its glittering light. His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled. A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrow-head worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour. In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud. With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail! He lives as his fathers lived—stole his food, worked his wife, sold his children, ate his brother, content to drink, sing, dance, and sport as the @pe! 

 

 

[Horseman 2,353]

6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

OK. I’m not really interested in having this discussion. I could have it at some point with reasonable people such as yourself, but this forum has too many bigots in it who believe that people with black skin have inherently lower intelligence. I know you’re not one of them and that’s enough. Yes black Americans do perform lower on IQ tests. We can disagree on the reasons why. It’s racist to believe that it’s inherent. Let’s leave it at that. 

 

Quote

Intelligence is highly heritable and predicts important educational, occupational and health outcomes better than any other trait. Recent genome-wide association studies have successfully identified inherited genome sequence differences that account for 20% of the 50% heritability of intelligence.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5985927/#:~:text=Intelligence is highly heritable and,the 50% heritability of intelligence.

Checkmate. 

Too easy. You have very low IQ for a white guy.  

[HB Localboy 121]

Just now, Horseman said:

 

Too easy. You have very low IQ for a white guy.  

You have to remember, he has an agenda based on the size of his nose. 

[Sean Mooney 1,935]

43 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

Not the point you’re making, but I’ve insisted for years that racial inequality is far less a social problem than economic inequality.

Agreed that it is. 

[iam90sbaby 2,472]

6 hours ago, squistion said:

He told us before the election what he planned to do.

The Project 2025 Policy Agenda was out there for anyone who wanted to read it.

But people ignored all that and the warnings from Democrats of what a debacle a second Trump term would be.

If those who voted for him weren't dumb or stupid, then they were just willfully ignorant for which there is no excuse.

 

You’re just stupid for not realizing that we know what we voted for and that’s what we want 

[iam90sbaby 2,472]

11 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

Years later you're still using the focking marshmallow test to support your racism, even after I proved you wrong on this over and over.  People like you disgust me.  The dumbest and worst of our society.

Hey that’s cool, fact of the matter is blacks have a lower IQ and I’m going to be on this side of the argument anytime it gets brought up 

[seafoam1 2,797]

6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

OK. I’m not really interested in having this discussion. I could have it at some point with reasonable people such as yourself, but this forum has too many bigots in it who believe that people with black skin have inherently lower intelligence. I know you’re not one of them and that’s enough. Yes black Americans do perform lower on IQ tests. We can disagree on the reasons why. It’s racist to believe that it’s inherent. Let’s leave it at that. 

[Voltaire 5,181]

 

Thomas Sowell gave us a 13 minute commentary with multiple explanations including as I recall, the importance of family structure, education, culture, support structures, and personal responsibility.

[squistion 1,942]

2 hours ago, Mike Hunt said:

Just a word.  As you well know the term "Queer" in now OK and back in vogue after being unacceptable,

It is not true that it is now OK.

That is why the Q in LTBTQ stands for either Queer or Questioning because many LGBTQ folks still find the term Queer offensive.

[seafoam1 2,797]

What's that you say??  

 

[MLCKAA 540]

8 minutes ago, squistion said:

It is not true that it is now OK.

That is why the Q in LTBTQ stands for either Queer or Questioning because many LGBTQ folks still find the term Queer offensive.

Eh, depends on the day.  Gays use the word queer the way AA use the N word.  He’s kinda right.