Not a catch?

[posty 2,296]

The player was already on the ground when he had control of the ball. If he were touched right away he would have been down by contact. But since he wasn't touched, he turned and reached the ball over the goal line.

 

The rule was applied incorrectly

Considering he didn't have control of the ball...

[seafoam1 1,879]

Considering he didn't have control of the ball...

You could, but why would you do that since he did have control?

[yanko 11]

Amazing that you can catch a ball, go down down once, then make a football play and yet still not be rewarded a catch. Meanwhile, if youre a QB and decided to pull the ball to your chest and fumble it, its not a fumble, but do the same as anyone else on the field and it is a fumble. You really cant make this stuff up.

[seafoam1 1,879]

Amazing that you can catch a ball, go down down once, then make a football play and yet still not be rewarded a catch. Meanwhile, if youre a QB and decided to pull the ball to your chest and fumble it, its not a fumble, but do the same as anyone else on the field and it is a fumble. You really cant make this stuff up.

Seriously. If he got touched by the defender the second after he caught the ball, he would have been called down at the 1.

 

I think the problem is just instant replay. It makes it impossible to officiate.

[murf74 461]

Seriously. If he got touched by the defender the second after he caught the ball, he would have been called down at the 1.

 

I think the problem is just instant replay. It makes it impossible to officiate.

 

The fact that he would have been down if touched after his knee hit the ground at the one tells you all you need to know about completing the catch (it was completed at that point). In fact if someone had touched him as he stretched the ball and got within an inch of goalline they would have ruled him down before crossing the plane.

[TD Ryan2 314]

Amazing that you can catch a ball, go down down once, then make a football play and yet still not be rewarded a catch. Meanwhile, if youre a QB and decided to pull the ball to your chest and fumble it, its not a fumble, but do the same as anyone else on the field and it is a fumble. You really cant make this stuff up.

[DankNuggs 305]

This stuff is very very simple. You have to survive the ground. Knee on the ground as you are falling doesn't count. You have to maintain possession without letting the ball hit the ground.

 

Ball bobbled and hit the ground in the end zone... No catch.

 

 

Should they change the rule to possession with two feet in bounds and the play ends? Maybe. But that isn't the rule.

[DankNuggs 305]

 

The fact that he would have been down if touched after his knee hit the ground at the one tells you all you need to know about completing the catch (it was completed at that point). In fact if someone had touched him as he stretched the ball and got within an inch of goalline they would have ruled him down before crossing the plane.

I don't think him being touched would have mattered, you still have to survive the ground. It wasn't two acts, it was all a single act of surviving the ground

[DankNuggs 305]

 

If you read the rule, you have to hold it through first contact to the ground, which he did, then he became a runner with a football move, which is obvious by anyone who watches football. Break the goalline and the play is over well before the ball gets close to the ground.

 

And is it no wonder the refs ate their whistles on the last play..........Pats penalties for the night was 2 for 4 yards

 

Shocked there is not talk into the defensive holding on last pass to Eli..........irrefutable evidence here, look at Eli's jersey holy crap!!!!!

 

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12/eli-rogers-believes-held-final-fake-spike-play/

Pats lost a game last year to Carolina where gronk was being blatently held by Keuchly in the endzone on the last play, they didn't call it, pats lost. Sometimes ref miss calls.

[seafoam1 1,879]

This stuff is very very simple. You have to survive the ground. Knee on the ground as you are falling doesn't count. You have to maintain possession without letting the ball hit the ground.

 

Ball bobbled and hit the ground in the end zone... No catch.

 

 

Should they change the rule to possession with two feet in bounds and the play ends? Maybe. But that isn't the rule.

So now he has to somehow "survive" the ground twice? Once when he caught it and was on the ground, and now a second time when he turns and lunges forward over the goal line. Just wow.

 

Why doesn't the NFL just say the receiver needs to hold the ball after the catch for a minimum of 60 mississippis? Then hand the ball to the ref and recieve signed documentation that the referee acknowledges the catch for the player to present to the other team's coach for his signiture of confirmation. Then, if it is also a touchfown, the process repeats for TD confirmation.

[murf74 461]

Pats lost a game last year to Carolina where gronk was being blatently held by Keuchly in the endzone on the last play, they didn't call it, pats lost. Sometimes ref miss calls.

2 blown calls in 3 plays to end the game is tough to swallow. Couple that with 2 penalties for a total of 4 yards? => Yeah, sometimes refs miss calls.

[Kopy 491]

And the ironic part of this whole scenario is. 90% of the Patriot fanbase is so arrogant, they think that the league is out to get them in every situation.

It's not the franchise that turns people off. It's the fans lack of humility.

[seafoam1 1,879]

And the ironic part of this whole scenario is. 90% of the Patriot fanbase is so arrogant, they think that the league is out to get them in every situation.

It's not the franchise that turns people off. It's the fans lack of humility.

My grouping of those types of fans are as follows:

NY Yankees

NY Giants

St. Louis Cardinals

LA Dodgers

LA Lakers

Dallas Cowboys

Vancouver Canucks

TB Bucs

Philadelphia Phillies

[polecatt 403]

This stuff is very very simple. You have to survive the ground. Knee on the ground as you are falling doesn't count. You have to maintain possession without letting the ball hit the ground.

 

Ball bobbled and hit the ground in the end zone... No catch.

 

 

Should they change the rule to possession with two feet in bounds and the play ends? Maybe. But that isn't the rule.

Except the ball can hit the ground as long as it doesn't move, although it is clearly moving if it does hit the ground

Face it, the rule is ridiculous and so is the fact that one of the simplest and easiest to call rules in the game has been turned into a giant clusterF by Roger

[TD Ryan2 314]

And the ironic part of this whole scenario is. 90% of the Patriot fanbase is so arrogant,

 

I like you Kopy - sorry you feel that way. NE watches their team play smart, disciplined football week in and week out. The Pats rarely beat themselves whether the calls go their way or not and their opponents frequently fold mentally - you're a Seahhawks fan... you should know this better than anyone.

 

So here we are... the world crying over a debatable call that still left the Steelers in great position to tie and even win the game - and they didn't - they literally threw it away - they folded mentally like so many do.

They didn't because they weren't prepared - because they weren't ready for the critical situation .. the QB and Coaches didn't know whether it was a fake spike or not... the majority of their team just stood there after the ball was snapped on 3rd down... the QB stupidly threw the ball into the middle of the field where a bunch of NE players were ready... ready because they KNEW the exact formation and play that PIT used for their "fake spike" routine... they watched it in the film room prior to this week's game... it's the same one PIT ran last year... the situation and preparation are not a lot different than Malcolm Butler's interception two SuperBowls ago.

 

So yes... I'm arrogant. Because I believe that the coach and team I root for are ALWAYS better prepared than their opponents. Sometimes they have more talent. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they get the calls. Sometimes they don't. And after nearly 2 decades of it, the crying only gets worse... and the louder those cry babies get, the more enjoyable it is for me.

 

You should be crying over the Steelers confusion, lack of effort on a critical third down, and lack of preparation. But you won't... you'll cry because of a call, or a conspiracy theory, or some other made up boogeyman... and next year, when it happens again (and it does every year with NE and PIT), your team will have the same flaws because it was never their fault in anyone's eyes, it was the boogeyman that made them lose. You keep believing it's the boogeyman, and we'll just keep beating your asses... convincing you all that the boogeyman exists is maybe Belichick's greatest trick of all.

[Maulers1973 117]

So now he has to somehow "survive" the ground twice? Once when he caught it and was on the ground, and now a second time when he turns and lunges forward over the goal line. Just wow.

 

Why doesn't the NFL just say the receiver needs to hold the ball after the catch for a minimum of 60 mississippis? Then hand the ball to the ref and recieve signed documentation that the referee acknowledges the catch for the player to present to the other team's coach for his signiture of confirmation. Then, if it is also a touchfown, the process repeats for TD confirmation.

 

 

Falling to the ground is falling to the ground. It's not falling to 1 knee. It's not falling until your butt hits and that is it. It is falling to the ground. A guy falling, catching, diving is going to be flat to the ground. He has to survive that and by survive it means maintain possession of the ball. It's the exact same type of deal they got Dez Bryant with. None of you Steeler fans were defending him then.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,647]

And the ironic part of this whole scenario is. 90% of the Patriot fanbase is so arrogant, they think that the league is out to get them in every situation.

It's not the franchise that turns people off. It's the fans lack of humility.

Don't dare remind them of 18-1 and the follow up. That was all luck. And they didn't mind when Goodell destroyed the spygate tapes, but when Tawmmy destroyed his cell phone Goodell was the worst.

[DaBeerz 88]

I think Steelers fans just have to let this one go.

 

Despite the application of a very stupid rule by officials, the fact remains the Steelers still could have won that game with better coaching and execution.

 

Spike the ball, kick a FG would have been option 1

 

Option 2, try to score a TD but use a quick corner fade, you had good WR who could probably make a play over the Pats DBs, if nothing was there throw the ball away and kick the FG.

[Gepetto 987]

This is on Jesse James, know the rule and don't bobble the ball when you lunge to the ground/enzone. Same with Derek Carr in the Dallas game, that was really stupid.

 

But again, the catch rule is stupid, he caught the ball and crossed the plane of the endzone.

[seafoam1 1,879]

I think Steelers fans just have to let this one go.

 

Despite the application of a very stupid rule by officials, the fact remains the Steelers still could have won that game with better coaching and execution.

 

Spike the ball, kick a FG would have been option 1

 

Option 2, try to score a TD but use a quick corner fade, you had good WR who could probably make a play over the Pats DBs, if nothing was there throw the ball away and kick the FG.

Oh for sure. If that call alone cost them the playoffs, then I would say they have the right to complain, but with time left on the clock and that interception, what can you say other than "ouch".

[Bills04 46]

I was watching the game, and heard the perplexing about WHY was the replay taking so long? Then Romo keyed on whether it was a catch or not ..

 

The replay CLEARLY showed the ball SPINNING on the ground / James lost control.

 

It was N-O-T a catch, as he "didn't survive the ground!"

[DankNuggs 305]

So now he has to somehow "survive" the ground twice? Once when he caught it and was on the ground, and now a second time when he turns and lunges forward over the goal line. Just wow.

 

Why doesn't the NFL just say the receiver needs to hold the ball after the catch for a minimum of 60 mississippis? Then hand the ball to the ref and recieve signed documentation that the referee acknowledges the catch for the player to present to the other team's coach for his signiture of confirmation. Then, if it is also a touchfown, the process repeats for TD confirmation.

No, there was no 'he was on the ground stopped, then reached out' it was all one motion, one play, never survived the ground.

[DankNuggs 305]

And the ironic part of this whole scenario is. 90% of the Patriot fanbase is so arrogant, they think that the league is out to get them in every situation.

It's not the franchise that turns people off. It's the fans lack of humility.

You learned some humility this weeked... That was a savage beating

[DankNuggs 305]

 

 

Falling to the ground is falling to the ground. It's not falling to 1 knee. It's not falling until your butt hits and that is it. It is falling to the ground. A guy falling, catching, diving is going to be flat to the ground. He has to survive that and by survive it means maintain possession of the ball. It's the exact same type of deal they got Dez Bryant with. None of you Steeler fans were defending him then.

This.... catch is an income statement, not a balance sheet.... Its the complete process, not a snapshot in time

[seafoam1 1,879]

No, there was no 'he was on the ground stopped, then reached out' it was all one motion, one play, never survived the ground.

Ok. So this is where I say yes, he caught the ball while on the ground, then he made a separate move to reach it over the goal line. Sorry you don't agree but the ball was caught and controlled.

[DankNuggs 305]

Ok. So this is where I say yes, he caught the ball while on the ground, then he made a separate move to reach it over the goal line. Sorry you don't agree but the ball was caught and controlled.

we disagree on 'while on the ground'. his first knee was hitting and he was continuing to the ground as he reached out.

[DaBeerz 88]

Oh for sure. If that call alone cost them the playoffs, then I would say they have the right to complain, but with time left on the clock and that interception, what can you say other than "ouch".

 

Exactly but a lot in this thread are implying the call went against the Steelers because they were playing the pats. I think it was just a bad call based on a bad rule. I don't see some review official in a booth somewhere twirling his mustache saying "yess let's make sure the Patriots win all the time" with the NFL commissioner standing over him to ensure that happens. Some of the responses in this thread are just salty and reaching for something that's just not there.

[seafoam1 1,879]

we disagree on 'while on the ground'. his first knee was hitting and he was continuing to the ground as he reached out.

It's cool. I heard an ex ref say that it is impossible for refs to get all calls right actually because of the video.

[seafoam1 1,879]

 

Exactly but a lot in this thread are implying the call went against the Steelers because they were playing the pats. I think it was just a bad call based on a bad rule. I don't see some review official in a booth somewhere twirling his mustache saying "yess let's make sure the Patriots win all the time" with the NFL commissioner standing over him to ensure that happens. Some of the responses in this thread are just salty and reaching for something that's just not there.

Totally agree. Just a bad call. That conspiricy crap is getting annoying.

[Maulers1973 117]

It wasn't a bad call. It was a correct call. That is what we want. The problem is that it is a dumb rule. That's the crux of the problem. The call in accordance with the way the rule is written now was correct.

[DankNuggs 305]

It's cool. I heard an ex ref say that it is impossible for refs to get all calls right actually because of the video.

agree with this... super slow mo replay can take away context of a play sometimes.

[cavern 70]

only people that are in on the conspiracy would say such a thing

Totally agree. Just a bad call. That conspiricy crap is getting annoying.

[Kopy 491]

You learned some humility this weeked... That was a savage beating

 

Yes it was.

I'm not sure what I learned though?

[Kopy 491]

My grouping of those types of fans are as follows:

NY Yankees

NY Giants

St. Louis Cardinals

LA Dodgers

LA Lakers

Dallas Cowboys

Vancouver Canucks

TB Bucs

Philadelphia Phillies

Vancouver. Really?

I don't follow hockey so I really wouldn't know. That just seemed like a really oddball selection.

[jgcrawfish 232]

going to chime in without reading every response. the call was correct based on the definition of a catch. people keep pointing to the fact that he made a football move. that part of the rule died a few years ago. the "survive the ground" replaced it. i have very little problem with the interpretation of the rule in this instance. Now...the definition of a catch is CRAPTASTIC!!! Calvin had a catch, Dez had a catch, this was a catch.

 

So Bill Barnwell at ESPN wrote a piece about how to fix this, and I think his last suggestion is spectacular. Have a panel of former DBs and WR's and give them one minute to review the play, then they have to vote on it. Majority wins, plain and simple. You cut to them in a room all looking at their individual monitors then BING, time to vote and the votes role in.

 

Beyond that, it's time to vent. This loss goes squarely on the Steelers. Horrible clock management left Brady time to do what Brady always does. Horrible defensive play calling aided Brady...who the hell doesn't hit Gronk with bracketed coverage on the last drive?! FOCKING MAKE SOMEBODY OTHER THAN GRONK BEAT YOU!!! Your DB's have held up ALL GODDAMNED DAY in man coverage, but Gronk is eating whoever is on him alive. DOUBLE HIS ASS!!! Then, just when you thought clock/end game management can't get any worse, JuJu bails your ass out. So your goal? SCREW UP THE CLOCK MANAGEMENT EVEN MORE!!! Tomlin should have had the offense on the sideline as a group for the "what if" scenario on the Jesse James TD? Get a play called and get them ready just in case. But FOCK no! Ben is by himself praying, Jesse James is talking with another player on the field, and the rest of the offensive guys are celebrating on the sidelines. They rush back on after it's reversed with no plan, no nothing. Then, the crown of idiocy on the fake spike. JESUS, SPIKE THE DAMN BALL...GET ONE MORE SHOT INTO THE ENDZONE...AND IF YOU DON'T MAKE IT, KICK THE FOCKING FIELD GOAL!

[seafoam1 1,879]

Vancouver. Really?

I don't follow hockey so I really wouldn't know. That just seemed like a really oddball selection.

For that one I think it was my watching a few Blackhawk playoff series against them, I suppose if I rethought it I would switch that to the Bruins, Rangers or Canadiens. But they whined like noones business when the Hawks beat them up.

[boilerddd 62]

going to chime in without reading every response. the call was correct based on the definition of a catch. people keep pointing to the fact that he made a football move. that part of the rule died a few years ago. the "survive the ground" replaced it. i have very little problem with the interpretation of the rule in this instance. Now...the definition of a catch is CRAPTASTIC!!! Calvin had a catch, Dez had a catch, this was a catch.

 

So Bill Barnwell at ESPN wrote a piece about how to fix this, and I think his last suggestion is spectacular. Have a panel of former DBs and WR's and give them one minute to review the play, then they have to vote on it. Majority wins, plain and simple. You cut to them in a room all looking at their individual monitors then BING, time to vote and the votes role in.

 

Beyond that, it's time to vent. This loss goes squarely on the Steelers. Horrible clock management left Brady time to do what Brady always does. Horrible defensive play calling aided Brady...who the hell doesn't hit Gronk with bracketed coverage on the last drive?! FOCKING MAKE SOMEBODY OTHER THAN GRONK BEAT YOU!!! Your DB's have held up ALL GODDAMNED DAY in man coverage, but Gronk is eating whoever is on him alive. DOUBLE HIS ASS!!! Then, just when you thought clock/end game management can't get any worse, JuJu bails your ass out. So your goal? SCREW UP THE CLOCK MANAGEMENT EVEN MORE!!! Tomlin should have had the offense on the sideline as a group for the "what if" scenario on the Jesse James TD? Get a play called and get them ready just in case. But FOCK no! Ben is by himself praying, Jesse James is talking with another player on the field, and the rest of the offensive guys are celebrating on the sidelines. They rush back on after it's reversed with no plan, no nothing. Then, the crown of idiocy on the fake spike. JESUS, SPIKE THE DAMN BALL...GET ONE MORE SHOT INTO THE ENDZONE...AND IF YOU DON'T MAKE IT, KICK THE FOCKING FIELD GOAL!

The Steeler defensive back that flat dropped an interception on that final Pats drive should also be kicked squarely in the nuts as well. You drop that interception and you KNOW Brady is going to make you pay.

[jaxjag 43]

The rule was applied incorrectly because when you go to the ground in the process of making a catch you must maintain control of the ball. Not only was it applied correctly, it was remarkably consistent with calls you see every week in the NFL.

 

I fixed this for you.

[jaxjag 43]

He was already on the ground when he caught the ball. If he were to be touched at that point, the whistle would have blown and he would be down by contact. Since he wasn't touched, he made a move to reach/lunge the ball over the goal line. Those are two different actions. 1. Catch (and his knees/rear were down on the ground) 2. Reach over and score.

 

The only reason this rule comes into play is because they used it incorrectly.

 

No, he wasn't on the ground. Watch a replay for Christ's sake.

 

And, no, he wouldn't be down if he was touched.

 

James' mistake was losing the ball as he went to the ground. Simple as that - James' fault, not the Patriots, not the officials.

 

He did apparently have the ball well under control as he rotated his body and reached... I think the move was more continuous than you describe. The league may address the rule in the future although there have been more egregious call in the past than this one.

[jaxjag 43]

And the ironic part of this whole scenario is. 90% of the Patriot fanbase is so arrogant, they think that the league is out to get them in every situation.

It's not the franchise that turns people off. It's the fans lack of humility.

 

The real irony is that the call was consistent with calls we see every week. Yet, because the call was in NE's favor, there are tons of people here and across the internet that think the league is in cahoots with the Pats. Which is exactly the opposite of your claim.

 

The Patriot hatred is palpable. You are living proof of that. Look at your post and its bizarre claims. And you wonder why they stick up for themselves?