TK0001 97 Posted November 30, 2007 Kickers are the afterthought of every FF draft, and seem to matter very little throughout the season as well. I usually draft one kicker and start him every game, then drop him when his bye comes and pick up the flavor of the week to start from there on out. The top kicker in my league averages 9 points/game, and the 12th kicker (12 team league) averages 7.5. BFD. I'm thinking of introducing a new scoring structure for kickers - 3 pts for a PAT, 1 pt for a FG 0-40, 2 pts for a FG 41+. This would bring some interesting changes and actually make kickers valuable/tradeable. You'd go after kickers on good offenses and actually root for those teams to score TDs rather than get stopped in a certain zone on the field. Seems more natural that way, rooting for TDs. Anyway, I thought I'd run it by you guys to see what you think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TK0001 97 Posted November 30, 2007 This is the quality feedback I craved. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted November 30, 2007 How would reducing a kicker's points, therefore making him less valuable, make him more valuable? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Next Generation 10 Posted November 30, 2007 It's interesting, FGs are a crapshoot so I like the premise. But, I can't see anyone in my leagues going for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,567 Posted November 30, 2007 How would reducing a kicker's points, therefore making him less valuable, make him more valuable? 3 pts for an extra point would reduce points? TK, even though you're a ######, it's not a bad idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TK0001 97 Posted November 30, 2007 It's interesting, FGs are a crapshoot so I like the premise. But, I can't see anyone in my leagues going for it. It's a progressive concept. Kinda out of the box. I think traditionalists would instantly want to disagree with it just because real FGs = 3 pts, PATs = 1 pt. So it's pretty much backwards. But I think it would give kickers scoring consistency, and therefore they become more easily ranked, traded, and draftable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TK0001 97 Posted November 30, 2007 3 pts for an extra point would reduce points? TK, even though you're a ######, it's not a bad idea. Thanks man! :highfive: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted November 30, 2007 3 pts for an extra point would reduce points? I saw the - before the 3 and mistook it. After a second look, I like it. I would only go 2 pts though. 3 could get really crazy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,567 Posted November 30, 2007 It's a progressive concept. Kinda out of the box. I think traditionalists would instantly want to disagree with it just because real FGs = 3 pts, PATs = 1 pt. So it's pretty much backwards. But I think it would give kickers scoring consistency, and therefore they become more easily ranked, traded, and draftable. I'm very much an out of the closet, err box kinda guy! Every change my league has had in the last 10 years has been because of me, but I always have to beg and plead and when they changes are made, they are always happy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TK0001 97 Posted November 30, 2007 Looking at the top 10 offenses in the NFL to date, the average kicker scoring is as follows: 1. 8.55 2. 9.08 3. 9.08 4. 8.45 5. 9.18 6. 8.00 7. 8.73 8. 8.45 9. 6.36 10. 6.55 (The numbers aren't in numerical order because these are the top 10 ranked offenses, not kickers) If this new scoring were implemented, the kicker averages on these same teams would be: 1. 17.00 (Gostkowski would be the top dog by far) 2. 14.1 3. 11.4 4. 11.5 5. 11.0 6. 10.3 7. 10.2 8. 10.1 9. 9.91 10. 9.82 Much more of a scoring difference, just like with every other position you draft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,083 Posted November 30, 2007 Kickers are the afterthought of every FF draft, and seem to matter very little throughout the season as well. I usually draft one kicker and start him every game, then drop him when his bye comes and pick up the flavor of the week to start from there on out. The top kicker in my league averages 9 points/game, and the 12th kicker (12 team league) averages 7.5. BFD. I'm thinking of introducing a new scoring structure for kickers - 3 pts for a PAT, 1 pt for a FG 0-40, 2 pts for a FG 41+. This would bring some interesting changes and actually make kickers valuable/tradeable. You'd go after kickers on good offenses and actually root for those teams to score TDs rather than get stopped in a certain zone on the field. Seems more natural that way, rooting for TDs. Anyway, I thought I'd run it by you guys to see what you think. If you want to make it so you'd go after kickers on good offenses and actually root for the team they play on to do well, shouldn't it be: 3 pts for a PAT, 2 pts for a FG 0-40, 1 pt for a FG 41+. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillybear 364 Posted November 30, 2007 I'm very much an out of the closet, err box kinda guy! Every change my league has had in the last 10 years has been because of me, but I always have to beg and plead and when they changes are made, they are always happy. If all your changes were completely installed, everybody at your draft would be leaving with a tampon jammed up their ass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TK0001 97 Posted November 30, 2007 If you want to make it so you'd go after kickers on good offenses and actually root for the team they play on shouldn't it be: 3 pts for a PAT, 2 pts for a FG 0-40, 1 pt for a FG 41+. Good thought, but I think a kicker should be more rewarded for a FG from a longer distance, strictly due to degree of difficulty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,567 Posted November 30, 2007 I like it!! and to make defenses more tradeable and valuable, we should give 12 points for a sack and - 30 for every point they let up over 13.4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,083 Posted November 30, 2007 Good thought, but I think a kicker should be more rewarded for a FG from a longer distance, strictly due to degree of difficulty. Just playing devils advocate here, but the extra point is the easiest kick and is rewarded the most in your secenario though. What you are doing is kinda a mixture/hybrid/want your cake and eat it too sorta deal between degree of difficulty and team/kicker scoring. The standard scoring system is 1 - 2 - 3 ect. (extrapoint - FG - long FG). I would think completely reversing the scoring system 3 - 2 - 1 (extrapoint - FG - long FG). would be the way to go IMO, and actually like the idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 988 Posted November 30, 2007 I don't like it. Kickers should be drafted based somewhat and ideally primarily on their individual skill at kicking the field goal. And not artifically acquire points just because they happen to be on a good offense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McPhreak 0 Posted November 30, 2007 I agree that there needs to be a bigger difference between kickers, but I think you're going about it the wrong way. Kickers should be rewarded for their performance just like any other player. Big plays deserve big points. Gostkowski does nothing but chip in extra points every time the Pats score since the Pats refuse to kick field goals. Why should he be rewarded the most for essentially doing the least? On the flip side, guys like Janikowski who are relied upon to kick 50+ yard field goals deserve credit for what they've done. If you want a bigger discrepancy, perhaps increase the point totals between field goal lengths (i.e. 1 points for a field goal <30 yards, 3 points for 30-40, 6 points 40-50, 8 points 50+ yards) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cribdog 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Our league solved the kicker-scorer problem a long time ago...we eliminated kickers altogether. Every member of our league thinks it was the best move we ever made, and nobody has asked for them to be reinstated. Nothing was worse than losing because some propeller head happened to get 3 chances beyond 50 yards while your own guy just kicked a few PAT's. To give extra points for the easiest play in all of football is ridiculous. Many of us on this board could make 9/10 PAT's, and you want a professional football player to get bonus points for this? Think about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Next Generation 10 Posted November 30, 2007 Our league solved the kicker-scorer problem a long time ago...we eliminated kickers altogether. Every member of our league thinks it was the best move we ever made, and nobody has asked for them to be reinstated. Nothing was worse than losing because some propeller head happened to get 3 chances beyond 50 yards while your own guy just kicked a few PAT's. To give extra points for the easiest play in all of football is ridiculous. Many of us on this board could make 9/10 PAT's, and you want a professional football player to get bonus points for this? Think about it. I like this idea even better! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclemercy 51 Posted November 30, 2007 penalize the lonely kicker for the ones they miss... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohiomauler 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Personally, I don't like your idea. A few years ago in trying to eliminate ties we went to the decimal system with no threshholds. We made all 'chip shot' FGs up to 30 yds. 1 pt., from there it was .1 for every yard so a 49 yarder was worth more than a 40 yarder by almost a point. We also penalized missed XPs and FGs 1 point. We did that on all players(tenths with no threshholds) and wound up eliminating all ties and we had a few games decided by less than a point. We still gave the 100 yd. bonuses and since the web was totalling the scores the commish didn't have to much at all once the perameters were set. It worked out well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted November 30, 2007 I'm in a league where we get bonuses for FG length. And I can tell you that I hate it. The thing is that good kickers don't have to come from great offensive teams, actually they're more likely to come from team that have offensive deficiencies. Kris Brown and Rob Bironas have both put up 31 pts in a week this year. It sucks to spend time prepping, knowing players, getting a good draft then get beat by a random friggin kicker who throws up 30 pts. I'm actually for devaluing kickers or getting rid of their sorry azzes completely. They're a necessary evil, not a feature to be enhanced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smashmouth 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Kickers are the afterthought of every FF draft, and seem to matter very little throughout the season as well. I usually draft one kicker and start him every game, then drop him when his bye comes and pick up the flavor of the week to start from there on out. The top kicker in my league averages 9 points/game, and the 12th kicker (12 team league) averages 7.5. BFD. I'm thinking of introducing a new scoring structure for kickers - 3 pts for a PAT, 1 pt for a FG 0-40, 2 pts for a FG 41+. This would bring some interesting changes and actually make kickers valuable/tradeable. You'd go after kickers on good offenses and actually root for those teams to score TDs rather than get stopped in a certain zone on the field. Seems more natural that way, rooting for TDs. Anyway, I thought I'd run it by you guys to see what you think. I think that might quite possibly be the most stupid idea I have ever read on this board, and there has been some really stupid posts in my 5+ years of coming here. Great job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
itsbigmoni 1 Posted November 30, 2007 Your idea sounds more like having team offense points, rather than rewarding a good kicker. What other position gets rewarded for being on a good team? Should steve smiths numbers be devalued since he's the only WR they have and they're not a good team. Well, pretend david carr didn't devalue SS. Or what about Frank Gore last year. And what about good teams this year. Should maroney get his points elevated since he plays on a good team? Makes no sense. I think i'm gonna eliminate the position all together next eyar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FSW Mephisto 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Yes, I want the kickers in my league to be as valuable as a #1 RB. Great idea!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590 Posted November 30, 2007 want to make their scoring more valuable? do what we do. fractional pts. 1-30 yrd 3 pts. 31 yrd 3.1 32 =3.2 45= 4.5 etc we also give 6 pts for 50+ works out pretty good, have had a couple 25 pt games for some kickers, and they generally score around 10-12 on a weekly basis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeremy 0 Posted November 30, 2007 Good rule for those who enjoy PPR leagues. Rewards the player handsomely for doing essentially nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westlak 1 Posted November 30, 2007 Kickers are the afterthought of every FF draft, and seem to matter very little throughout the season as well. I usually draft one kicker and start him every game, then drop him when his bye comes and pick up the flavor of the week to start from there on out. The top kicker in my league averages 9 points/game, and the 12th kicker (12 team league) averages 7.5. BFD. I'm thinking of introducing a new scoring structure for kickers - 3 pts for a PAT, 1 pt for a FG 0-40, 2 pts for a FG 41+. This would bring some interesting changes and actually make kickers valuable/tradeable. You'd go after kickers on good offenses and actually root for those teams to score TDs rather than get stopped in a certain zone on the field. Seems more natural that way, rooting for TDs. Anyway, I thought I'd run it by you guys to see what you think. we use decimals in our kicker scoring. 18 yd fg 1.8 pts 45 yd fg 4.5 pts. they get what they get. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plasma george 52 Posted November 30, 2007 I don't like it. Kickers should be drafted based somewhat and ideally primarily on their individual skill at kicking the field goal. And not artifically acquire points just because they happen to be on a good offense. The problem with this is it's impossible to predict which kickers will have these oppurtunities every year. Last year, the Bears offense yielded Robbi Gould all kinds of FG chances, and was #1....I drafted him high, and the Bears offense doesn't give him these chances, and he was killing me. (on my bench now). Moral of the story....Robbie Gould has all the individual skills your talking about, and was drafted accordingly....but it's the crapshoot of the how the games unfold, and how the offense will perform and this is impossible to predict, unlike any other position in a Roster. I'm copying this thread and emailing it to every owner....I'm proposing we dump Kickers once and for all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gocolts 300 Posted November 30, 2007 I wish my league would eliminate kickers too. Our scoring for kickers is crazy. 0-39 = 3 points 40-49 = 5 points 50+ = 10 points extra point = 1 point Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Killer Elite 0 Posted November 30, 2007 It's a bad idea. Kickers score points for kicking, not for the quality of their offense! If you want to have a roster spot for team offense. Draft that. The parity in kickers is actually a boon for those of us that realize that we don’t need to draft a kicker in the 8th round because we can pick up a Folk off the waiver wire and be money all season. You need to think your idea through. Though it solves your short sighted issue it goes against the principle of the fantasy position at the core. Again, change the roster spot into team offense, that's what you're rewarding anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
duddy2020 0 Posted November 30, 2007 i been running a league for 10 years and my rules for kickers are like this -3 miss extra point -1 miss fg +1 extra point +3 fg made 0-38 yards + 4 FG MADE 39-49 + 5 50 AND OVER Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gocolts 300 Posted November 30, 2007 i been running a league for 10 years and my rules for kickers are like this -3 miss extra point -1 miss fg +1 extra point +3 fg made 0-38 yards + 4 FG MADE 39-49 + 5 50 AND OVER negative points Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nobody 2,044 Posted December 1, 2007 It flies in the face of the spirit of fantasy football, and I hate you because of it. What you are doing is making the kicker points equate to the team's offensive prowess. The idea of fantasy football is to put neato skill guys on your team that would normally never play together. In conclusion, meatballs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclemercy 51 Posted December 1, 2007 i been running a league for 10 years and my rules for kickers are like this -3 miss extra point -1 miss fg +1 extra point +3 fg made 0-38 yards + 4 FG MADE 39-49 + 5 50 AND OVER up yer ass, colts FOOTBALL GAMBLING!!! i think it's perfect... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Road_Cats 1 Posted December 1, 2007 Soring system we use currently 0-39 yds 3pts 40-49 yds 5pts 50+ yds 10pts PAT 1pt I like it and I find there is definitly little more thought into drafting a kicker. Plus like in real football in our fantasy league a kicker can get you a win. save a week for ya. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted December 1, 2007 Kickers have little value on their own teams and are typically viewed similarly to water boys. Why would you want to have them mean more in FF? Might as well start giving bonus points for them making a tackle on kickoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boogaloobboy 0 Posted December 1, 2007 Horrible idea. Do you realize how godly Gostwhateverhisnameis would be? The score at least he would be averaging at least 15 points a week under that format and be a lock for 9 points a week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclemercy 51 Posted December 1, 2007 Kickers have little value on their own teams and are typically viewed similarly to water boys. Why would you want to have them mean more in FF? Might as well start giving bonus points for them making a tackle on kickoffs. no crap... we get those in the IDP league i play. it's bush, but it's fun, and if your kicker ever won a game by a tackle... name a better reason to clown around and talk smack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
