Let's play the WHAT IF gametoday.

[KSB2424 3,085]

I live in Dallas and see them every week. Believe me, the results wouldn't be any better!!!!

Thanks for clarifying this. That's a wrap everybody. No need to play anymore games this year. Poophead's crystal ball is working properly and he knows the results of future games. Go ahead and declare NE the champs and lets all go home.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

He's gotten better every game. The 4th Qtr of the Ravens game that D line was unmovable and they did a damn fine job yesterday.

 

Seymour did not really have a good game yesterday. Wilfork had a monster game.

[wiffleball 4,656]

Not that it's horribly relevant with DAL already locking up their Divsion, but there's a real possibility that GB could end up with a better record than Dal.

[donhaas 18]

hey... some teams have a drug addict for a QB, some have an illegal camera on the sidelines.

 

what can ya' do.

either way, Good Luck in the JV-Bowl.

 

RedTodd called. He wants his jokes from 1994 back.

He has a stand-up gig at the Rhinelander VFW this weekend and he needs all of his new material

[tubby_mcgee 691]

Patriots (or maybe the Colts) in a landslide by Half Time.

 

After that - everyone is only sticking around for the commercials.

 

 

Yeah...IndyTom is right. Dallas couldn't hang with either of them. I mean, last year, Dallas beat Indy, but Dallas has declined as a team since then and is really struggling, while the Colts are ramrodding the ball down everyone's throats and have proven they can't be beaten. So, yeah...yeah.....there really doesn't appear to be any way Dallas could hang with the Colts past halftime.

[Cruzer 1,993]

Not that it's horribly relevant with DAL already locking up their Divsion, but there's a real possibility that GB could end up with a better record than Dal.

dallas has philly, carolina and washington left. they'd have to lose 2 of the last 3 - considering vinny is qbing the panthers and todd collins is qbing the skins, not likely. the chance is remote at best.

[tubby_mcgee 691]

I don't think the Cowboys had Tank Johnson versus the Pats. He will help close the gap (by how much is up for debate).

 

Now we're talking serious Tom.

 

Has Tank really done much? It seems as though Ratliff play's a lot more. Maybe Tank wasn't in football shape the first couple games?

 

Newman playing corner vs. the Pats will help their chances.

[tubby_mcgee 691]

dallas has philly, carolina and washington left. they'd have to lose 2 of the last 3 - considering vinny is qbing the panthers and todd collins is qbing the skins, not likely. the chance is remote at best.

 

 

The Eagles will be tough. Of course Dallas can win...but the Giants swept the Eagles, and it's tough to visualize both Dallas and the Giants sweeping their division nemesis'.

[Gepetto 991]

Anthony Henry was out in that game against the Patriots. With him healthy and starting in the SuperBowl, along with the experience and improvement of both teams throughout the year, it will be a great matchup.

[BirdBradyBobbyOrr 0]

Record-wise, it would be the best ever, but from a historical standpoint, you'd have to take it for what it really is- the best two teams in a VERY mediocre NFL.

 

The fact that the current Steeler team isn't half as good as past Steller teams, yet they're still considered one of the AFC's top 4 or 5 teams is testament to that. The NFC is so horrible that Green Bay is 11-2. Now, I am a huge Favre supporter, and love what he's doing this year, but that team wouldn't even make the playoffs in the early 90's that Dallas, San Francisco, Philly, and the New York Giants.

 

It would definitely be a battle between the best two teams in a very watered down NFL.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but I'd say this is just a disguised attempt to take away from what the Patriots are doing. I'm going to try to reason with what I think was an unreasonable statement.

 

This current Patriots team and I'd also say the Colts are dominating teams. Great teams that have proven it over a sustained period, over 5 seasons, by playing great football throughout. If the Pats weren't crushing it this season all ESPN would be talking about is the Colts and if they can win it again. Think about it, we've only seen one team consistently beat the Colts over the last 5 years, the New England Patriots!!!

 

I'd say it's pretty fair to debate that it's either the Cowboys or the Steelers that are historically the NFL's premier franchises. No offense to Redskin, 49ers, and Packers fans who I'm sure will debate this point. What I've watched is a spectacular Tony Romo on one of the NFL's signature teams, setting all types of records, breaking Aikman and Staubach's records, along with leading the Cowboys to one of the their best seasons ever. Aikman never went 15-1 and I'm pretty sure he never even went 14-2, more like 12-4 SuperBowl, 10-6 SuperBowl, but those wins are not easy to come by and the Cowboys keep winning.

 

This current group of Patriots was already a dynasty and if they add an undefeated season and a 4th SuperBowl, or add either one of them to their resume, right beside all time NFL win streak and 3 SuperBowls, they will have stepped into "greatest dynasty ever?" debates. Sure I'm a homer but this is general opinion from anything I'm reading or anyone I've talked to.

 

To call the Patriots one of "two teams in a VERY mediocre NFL" and "a battle between the best two teams in a very watered down NFL" is really just not a fair representation of what we are watching. Like I said it seems like a disguised attempt to dismiss the Patriots accomplishments.

 

You might feel the only reason Brady, Manning and Romo are setting records is the talent they are competing against isn't that good but I just don't agree. It's the fastest, most talented, and most vicious sports league in the world. Players are getting recruited from everywhere (one example would be Stephen Neal for the Patriots) and the new training programs have these guys faster and stronger then ever. There's also been a nastiness to the NFL over the last few years that is old school. What we are seeing is a group of teams that is dominant, a middle class, = and a group of terrible teams. But let's look at those terrible teams such as in the case of the Rams and 49ers who both got decimated by injury. Or how about the Falcons where the Michael Vick situation was a season long albatross. In fact other the only truly pathetic team is the Dolphins and I bet they would have won a game if they still had Ronnie Brown.

 

The NFL tried to water things down and create parity and in a way they have but I don't think it's watered down at all. I'd put the Pats against any of those teams from the 1980's and if the Colts had Marvin Harrison and hand't lost their best O lineman, that offense would be as scary as the Pats, especially when you consider the talent Addai has.

 

I think a 15-1 Cowboys against a 16-0 Patriots would easily be the best matchup in NFL SuperBowl history, and it would clearly be the matchup of the best 2 records in NFL SuperBowl history. Add in the huge media markets, the National fanbase for the Cowboys, the national hatred of the Patriots (this season), the star QB's, Hollywood angles, Defensive stars, rematch from earlier this year, TO's SuperBowl rematch against the Patriots, TO vs Moss, Marion Barber and Laurence Maroney, and we have one of the most hyped matchups ever as well.

 

I'd like to see it..

[tubby_mcgee 691]

I think a 15-1 Cowboys against a 16-0 Patriots would easily be the best matchup in NFL SuperBowl history, and it would clearly be the matchup of the best 2 records in NFL SuperBowl history. Add in the huge media markets, the National fanbase for the Cowboys, the national hatred of the Patriots (this season), the star QB's, Hollywood angles, Defensive stars, rematch from earlier this year, TO's SuperBowl rematch against the Patriots, TO vs Moss, Marion Barber and Laurence Maroney, and we have one of the most hyped matchups ever as well.

 

Yep....lot's of angles to market that one.

[Cruzer 1,993]

The Eagles will be tough. Of course Dallas can win...but the Giants swept the Eagles, and it's tough to visualize both Dallas and the Giants sweeping their division nemesis'.

considering the boys swept the giants, i'd say it's more plausible for dallas to have done it than philly. plus this one is in dallas.

[edjr 5,600]

Yep....lot's of angles to market that one.

 

That's just the thing, there is no need to market the superbowl, this game would be the highest rated ever, easily.

[mighty_thor 115]

That's just the thing, there is no need to market the superbowl, this game would be the highest rated ever, easily.

 

Pats vs. dallas would be highest rated TV event in history.

 

Pats vs Packers would likely be highest rated in history as well.

[edjr 5,600]

Pats vs. dallas would be highest rated TV event in history.

 

Pats vs Packers would likely be highest rated in history as well.

 

Assuming they are 16 - 0 going in, yes. I think that plays a huge part in it.

 

just look at the ratings from the Ravens/Pats game

[KSB2424 3,085]

They should have a Bundchen/Moynahan vs. Simpson/Underwood bikini clad tag team Jello wrasslin' match at halftime! Forget Tom Petty, these are the real heartbreakers. Talk about ratings, geez.

[FecalHead 0]

Thanks for clarifying this. That's a wrap everybody. No need to play anymore games this year. Poophead's crystal ball is working properly and he knows the results of future games. Go ahead and declare NE the champs and lets all go home.

 

A healthy Indy team is about the only team that would have a chance of beating this Patriots team in the playoffs. Please don't confuse this with a lowly team (Eagles and Ravens) that gets way up to knock off an undefeated team while they are being overlooked. I'm talking playoffs!! When it's all on the line. I don't have a crystal ball, but I've watched enough football to see that this Cowboys team would be greatly over-matched. You can go home now, son!!

[wiffleball 4,656]

Just as last year, the most exciting - and the two best teams in the league - will be found in the AFC Championship.

 

 

And for all the d-bags who think somehow the 'Boys and their Superbowl Rookie QB who choked against the friggin SeaHags for God's sake are somehow magically going to make the SB closer than a 20 point dog, please report back here in January.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

I hate the NFL Postseason.

 

They should get rid of the playoffs, and have multiple Bowls which any team over .500 can get into. The individual bowls will be able to select which teams they want. Some Bowls will have traditional matchups between divisions: AFC North vs. NFC North for example.

 

A complex computer formula will be used to determine the best two teams in the league. These selected teams will play in the Super Bowl for the championship.

 

[Sho Nuff 720]

Now we're talking serious Tom.

 

Has Tank really done much? It seems as though Ratliff play's a lot more. Maybe Tank wasn't in football shape the first couple games?

 

Newman playing corner vs. the Pats will help their chances.

 

Newman did not help them last time.

[Cruzer 1,993]

Newman did not help them last time.

nor was he expected to. it was his first game back if i recall - and even then he was sort of rushed back into play bcoz henry was out. he was by no means in football shape at that time. would it have mattered? maybe, maybe not - but i sure and hell would rather have him 100% than 75%.

[Lions_or_Die 0]

Cowboys vs. Colts

[The Moz 69]

The hype around that game would be something never before seen.

 

The game itself likely pretty boring with a NE total blowout of Dallas.

[The Moz 69]

as far as who is banging the hotter chick Brady or Romo

 

Romo > Brady

 

Carrie and Jessica > Gisselle and Bridgett - though if you take into accouint that Gissell is worth like 120 million the balance might sway.

[KSB2424 3,085]

as far as who is banging the hotter chick Brady or Romo

 

Romo > Brady

 

Carrie and Jessica > Gisselle and Bridgett - though if you take into accouint that Gissell is worth like 120 million the balance might sway.

 

I'm really suprised no one has mentioned anything about the halftime jello wrasslin post. Ya'll sure do like football.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

 

I'm really suprised no one has mentioned anything about the halftime jello wrasslin post. Ya'll sure do like football.

 

I couldn't mention it. I just got back to my desk after a quick trip to the bathroom

[itsbigmoni 1]

They should have a Bundchen/Moynahan vs. Simpson/Underwood bikini clad tag team Jello wrasslin' match at halftime! Forget Tom Petty, these are the real heartbreakers. Talk about ratings, geez.

 

 

People are looking at both teams bad games way too much. Over a 16 game schedule you are gonna have fock up games. No matter how good you are, there's gonna be games where sh1t goes bad and you barely squeeze out a win, or even lose. Going 15-1 is a hard thing to do and it means a lot. Going 16-0? That is amazing.

 

I don't think it'll be a blow-out. As people have mentioned, the cowboys secondary was hit hard with injuries early in the year. You had jacque reeves covering stallworth and welker at times. Nathan Jones got serious burn. Even with both DB's healthy, its no easy match-up but having reeves as a nickle back is gonna be a lot better than having him out there every play.

 

I think in the close games, it shows how much skill the boys and pats have. The pats had no reason winning that game but they came through at the end. They got some help with the ravens making stupid plays, but good teams are ready to take advantage of the ball bouncing their way. Romo threw like 5 picks and they still won somehow. Thats pretty impressive.

 

Pats 38-31.

[DankNuggs 305]

Personally, the dream come true Super Bowl would be Dallas-Indy.

 

For starters, the two teams haven't played yet. It would feature the reigning greatest QB against evveryone's choice for the "next great QB".

 

Also, it would mean that Indy beat New England in the playoffs, therefore making the Patriots' season of cheating-then-running the score-up and going undefeated simply an irrelevent afterthought. They would be the biggest fraud in the sports world since Gerry Cooney.

 

ROFL

 

ROFL

 

 

Manning couldn't hold Bradys jock.... Its not even close.

 

Patriots a fraud??????? How about going 13-0 and losing out on going undefeating, then choking in the playoffs? Was that INDY!!!!!! Oh yes of course it was.

 

 

If the pats didn't choke away the afc champ to Manning, he would never have won anything. As it stands, he'll never win another SB... Its over for him.

[NewbieJr 540]

 

ROFL

 

ROFL

Manning couldn't hold Bradys jock.... Its not even close.

Oh please!

Ever since Brasy cam einto teh league, it was the same thing.. Manning is the bettwr quarterback, but Brady was better in the clutch. (That was before Manning's Super Bowl win, of course).

 

All of a sudden, Brady gets Randy Moss and starts putting up sick stats (look at Culpeeper before and after Moss) and not only is he suddenly better than Manning, but it's not even close! LOL

 

Dude, take off the homer glasses. You've completely lost the ability to see objectively.

[NewbieJr 540]

 

ROFL

 

ROFL

Manning couldn't hold Bradys jock.... Its not even close.

 

Patriots a fraud??????? How about going 13-0 and losing out on going undefeating, then choking in the playoffs? Was that INDY!!!!!! Oh yes of course it was.

If the pats didn't choke away the afc champ to Manning, he would never have won anything. As it stands, he'll never win another SB... Its over for him.

Oh, and just so you know, if the Pats do anything but win it all, it will go down as the biggest choke in sports history.

[BirdBradyBobbyOrr 0]

as far as who is banging the hotter chick Brady or Romo

 

Romo > Brady

 

Carrie and Jessica > Gisselle and Bridgett - though if you take into accouint that Gissell is worth like 120 million the balance might sway.

 

Bro you have to give it to Brady because Hollywood starlets and European Supermodels are much more "open" minded then tight ass bible belt country singers. I guarantee Gisselle just throws Supermodels in the bed and watches Tom and them go at it while she sits at a little table with Kate Moss doing lines and french kissing.

 

What a life he has.

[BirdBradyBobbyOrr 0]

Oh, and just so you know, if the Pats do anything but win it all, it will go down as the biggest choke in sports history.

 

That's completely not true. Biggest choke is way overboard.

 

It seems to me that Brady is better then Manning maybe I'm just a homer or homo or homeless person but I don't see how Manning is better then him. I've watched a lot of Peyton especially those early AFC East years. Don't see it.

 

One of the best ever but not as good as Brady.

[drobeski 3,061]

Oh, and just so you know, if the Pats do anything but win it all, it will go down as the biggest choke in sports history.

nothing can ever top the yankees collapse in 04, its just scientifically unpossible

[ROBOKOP 0]

PACKERS!

[donhaas 18]

The NFC is so horrible that Green Bay is 11-2.

 

The NFC leads the AFC head-to-head

 

The Packers are 4-0 versus the AFC.

3-1 versus the second best division in football (NFC East)

3-1 versus the third best division in football (NFC North)

 

Haven't played anybody from the worst division in football (NFC West)

 

 

 

Carry on... I don't know what point you were making anyway

[Ambroc 0]

The NFC leads the AFC head-to-head

 

The Packers are 4-0 versus the AFC.

3-1 versus the second best division in football (NFC East)

3-1 versus the third best division in football (NFC North)

 

Haven't played anybody from the worst division in football (NFC West)

Carry on... I don't know what point you were making anyway

 

No offense, Donhass, I know you are GB homer and apologist, but why don't you show some modesty with your team. I live in Wisconsin, I watch the games, I know Green Bay's strengths and weaknesses. I saw all the games Green Bay should have won (CHI), I know the games Green Bay should have lost (KC, DEN, PHI and WAS.) They are a good, good team, playing with heart and confidence.

 

I actually believe they have a chance to play and win in the Super Bowl. But to do that, they will have to sneak up on people.

 

They just don't have the guns to consistently compete with the top two teams in the league, INDY and the Patriots. They could beat Dallas on a good day, sure, but have you watched INDY or the PATS play? If you've noticed lately, the GB defense is not exactly a top ranked unit that could put consistent pressure on Peyton or Tom. (Please look at the stats for comfirmation on GB's rankings; use yard/attempt to clarify if you must.) The youth of the Packers is not a plus, either.

 

I will not play the "transitive" game with you (i.e. my team beat team "A" by ten points which beat your team by ten points,) which would not go well for you either, but as a fact, Green Bay has not played the PATS and INDY. This allows you to dream, of course, but stick to the dreaming until you can come up with a rational argument why you think the Packers are an elite team compared to the current NFL Champs or the currently undefeated Patriots.

 

I am not trying to bait you. I just think you should take a deep breath, take one game at a time. The Packers could easily lose to Seattle or the Giants at home in the play-offs. One game at a time. I will cheer for them against Dallas or the Vikings (my dark horse to upset the Cowboys) and hope they make the big game.

 

Hopefully, they will play the Patriots in the Super Bowl, but it might be INDY or PIT (another team that matches up well against the Packers.) If and when the Packers make the SB, then you can start blowing off inane chatter. But if you do, I suggest you don't piss of the Patriot fans because the only way the Packers winis if they take a page from the 2002 Super Bowl Champs on how to pull off the upset.

 

In which case, you will be thanking Pat fans. Funny how that works, huh?

[kristv 0]

No offense, Donhass, I know you are GB homer and apologist, but why don't you show some modesty with your team. I live in Wisconsin, I watch the games, I know Green Bay's strengths and weaknesses. I saw all the games Green Bay should have won (CHI), I know the games Green Bay should have lost (KC, DEN, PHI and WAS.) They are a good, good team, playing with heart and confidence.

 

I actually believe they have a chance to play and win in the Super Bowl. But to do that, they will have to sneak up on people.

 

They just don't have the guns to consistently compete with the top two teams in the league, INDY and the Patriots. They could beat Dallas on a good day, sure, but have you watched INDY or the PATS play? If you've noticed lately, the GB defense is not exactly a top ranked unit that could put consistent pressure on Peyton or Tom. (Please look at the stats for comfirmation on GB's rankings; use yard/attempt to clarify if you must.) The youth of the Packers is not a plus, either.

 

I will not play the "transitive" game with you (i.e. my team beat team "A" by ten points which beat your team by ten points,) which would not go well for you either, but as a fact, Green Bay has not played the PATS and INDY. This allows you to dream, of course, but stick to the dreaming until you can come up with a rational argument why you think the Packers are an elite team compared to the current NFL Champs or the currently undefeated Patriots.

 

I am not trying to bait you. I just think you should take a deep breath, take one game at a time. The Packers could easily lose to Seattle or the Giants at home in the play-offs. One game at a time. I will cheer for them against Dallas or the Vikings (my dark horse to upset the Cowboys) and hope they make the big game.

 

Hopefully, they will play the Patriots in the Super Bowl, but it might be INDY or PIT (another team that matches up well against the Packers.) If and when the Packers make the SB, then you can start blowing off inane chatter. But if you do, I suggest you don't piss of the Patriot fans because the only way the Packers winis if they take a page from the 2002 Super Bowl Champs on how to pull off the upset.

 

In which case, you will be thanking Pat fans. Funny how that works, huh?

 

Excellent post. I agree with most of it as well, and I'm a Packers fan! See, not all of us are blind to the fact that our team isn't perfect.

 

I think the Pack has a very good chance of making it to the NFC Championship game and possibly winning it, even in Dallas. But if they have to play a healthy Patriots or Colts team in the Super Bowl, I may cry a little. I think it would be anyone's game if the Pack played anyone else from the AFC though.

[donhaas 18]

No offense, Donhass, I know you are GB homer and apologist, but why don't you show some modesty with your team.

 

It’s interesting as you try to be impartial that you brought up a game you say GB should have lost against KC (they won by 11 points and almost doubled their offensive output 432-234) yet Indianapolis (who is out of GB’s league; GB can't compete with them) beat KC by 3.

 

But I digress… You can do this stuff all day….

 

 

Also interesting is the post that sparked your long post. Somebody was essentially saying Green Bay and the NFC was a fraud and I simply posted GB’s record versus the AFC and the top divisions in football. How is that immodest?

 

I just don’t get the part about being immodest. I am a homer, but so is everybody at this board. But unlike a lot of people on this board (read Patriot fans) I root for the Packers when they are down just as loud and just as hard. Wander over to the geek board and you will see monster Brewer posts from 3 and 4 years ago bigger then other teams. Yes people made fun of me constantly because the Brewers sucked hard but I guess because the Brewers sucked hard that didn't make me immodest like I am with the Packers now.

 

Most everything I say is all in fun and I think most Patriot fans understand that. Do a search on Patriot fans – edjr, Redtodd, drobeski – and search them with Packers and Favre and hundreds of posts come up. They are the main antagonists in this and I just play along. If that makes me immodest than so be it….

 

Now for this whole “be quiet so you can sneak up on the Patriots” thing you have going, I must say that I disagree. First, Belicheck and the Patriots have not been at fftoday for a couple years now. Second, players studying and practicing football 80 hours a week and coaches making millions of dollars to eat, drink, and sleep football don’t have teams “sneak up on them,” especially not in the Super Bowl. Do you think Belicheck never reads Sports Illustrated or listens to John Madden? Do you think Favre is going to sneak up on the Patriots if they should meet in the Super Bowl? "Oh, God, we didn't know Favre was this good... Wish we would have watched some tape. Packers? Never heard of the franchise.... Who's this Lombardi guy on the trophy we keep getting?"

 

Teams win because they are better. New England won that Super Bowl because they were better than St. Louis. Whoever wins this upcoming Super Bowl will win it because they are better, not because they “snuck up on the other team.”

 

In reality, the Packers may be a year or two off. They are the youngest team in the league. But there’s nothing, NOTHING that hints that any given Sunday they can’t win it all.

 

We will see.

[Ambroc 0]

It’s interesting as you try to be impartial that you brought up a game you say GB should have lost against KC (they won by 11 points and almost doubled their offensive output 432-234) yet Indianapolis (who is out of GB’s league; GB can't compete with them) beat KC by 3.

 

But I digress… You can do this stuff all day….

Also interesting is the post that sparked your long post. Somebody was essentially saying Green Bay and the NFC was a fraud and I simply posted GB’s record versus the AFC and the top divisions in football. How is that immodest?

 

I just don’t get the part about being immodest. I am a homer, but so is everybody at this board. But unlike a lot of people on this board (read Patriot fans) I root for the Packers when they are down just as loud and just as hard. Wander over to the geek board and you will see monster Brewer posts from 3 and 4 years ago bigger then other teams. Yes people made fun of me constantly because the Brewers sucked hard but I guess because the Brewers sucked hard that didn't make me immodest like I am with the Packers now.

 

Most everything I say is all in fun and I think most Patriot fans understand that. Do a search on Patriot fans – edjr, Redtodd, drobeski – and search them with Packers and Favre and hundreds of posts come up. They are the main antagonists in this and I just play along. If that makes me immodest than so be it….

 

Now for this whole “be quiet so you can sneak up on the Patriots” thing you have going, I must say that I disagree. First, Belicheck and the Patriots have not been at fftoday for a couple years now. Second, players studying and practicing football 80 hours a week and coaches making millions of dollars to eat, drink, and sleep football don’t have teams “sneak up on them,” especially not in the Super Bowl. Do you think Belicheck never reads Sports Illustrated or listens to John Madden? Do you think Favre is going to sneak up on the Patriots if they should meet in the Super Bowl? "Oh, God, we didn't know Favre was this good... Wish we would have watched some tape. Packers? Never heard of the franchise.... Who's this Lombardi guy on the trophy we keep getting?"

 

Teams win because they are better. New England won that Super Bowl because they were better than St. Louis. Whoever wins this upcoming Super Bowl will win it because they are better, not because they “snuck up on the other team.”

 

In reality, the Packers may be a year or two off. They are the youngest team in the league. But there’s nothing, NOTHING that hints that any given Sunday they can’t win it all.

 

We will see.

[Ambroc 0]

Don,

 

Thanks for the reply. This is the kind of discussion I like to see from you. I'll reply in kind:

 

 

"It’s interesting as you try to be impartial that you brought up a game you say GB should have lost against KC (they won by 11 points and almost doubled their offensive output 432-234) yet Indianapolis (who is out of GB’s league; GB can't compete with them) beat KC by 3."

 

We agree that "you can do this stuff all day…." I call this the "transitive" argument of football that almost always leads in a great big circle; that's why I like to break individual games down to get an idea of a team's relative value. (For example, you and I both know that if a certain KC wr bothers to keep his feet in bounds at the end of the GB/KC game then the Packers do not win at all.)

 

"Also interesting is the post that sparked your long post. Somebody was essentially saying Green Bay and the NFC was a fraud and I simply posted GB’s record versus the AFC and the top divisions in football. How is that immodest? I just don’t get the part about being immodest. I am a homer, but so is everybody at this board. But unlike a lot of people on this board (read Patriot fans) I root for the Packers when they are down just as loud and just as hard. Wander over to the geek board and you will see monster Brewer posts from 3 and 4 years ago bigger then other teams. Yes people made fun of me constantly because the Brewers sucked hard but I guess because the Brewers sucked hard that didn't make me immodest like I am with the Packers now."

 

NFC is not a fraud, it's just that the AFC has the elite teams in the NFL. It is this kind of attitude that gets teams in trouble. The Colts in the old NFC disrespected the AFC Jets in SB III; look where that got them.

 

Fan have no responsibility to be modest when they are in similar company, but in mixed company they must be able to see both sides of the argument in order for their points to be respected. Even the finest lawyers in the most desperate cases will concede points at times. Wise Patriot fans will concede that luck has played a role in their current season and that any team in the AFC Playoffs has a chance to knock them off. The din of you rabid fandom deadens the ears of your listeners.

 

"Most everything I say is all in fun and I think most Patriot fans understand that. Do a search on Patriot fans – edjr, Redtodd, drobeski – and search them with Packers and Favre and hundreds of posts come up. They are the main antagonists in this and I just play along. If that makes me immodest than so be it…."

 

It's just that you tend to be -- lately -- a gnat more than a contributor, and I know from your response here that you have more to contribute.

 

"Now for this whole “be quiet so you can sneak up on the Patriots” thing you have going, I must say that I disagree. First, Belicheck and the Patriots have not been at fftoday for a couple years now. Second, players studying and practicing football 80 hours a week and coaches making millions of dollars to eat, drink, and sleep football don’t have teams “sneak up on them,” especially not in the Super Bowl. Do you think Belicheck never reads Sports Illustrated or listens to John Madden? Do you think Favre is going to sneak up on the Patriots if they should meet in the Super Bowl? "Oh, God, we didn't know Favre was this good... Wish we would have watched some tape. Packers? Never heard of the franchise.... Who's this Lombardi guy on the trophy we keep getting?"

 

Actually, the Patriots are firm believers in modesty when it comes to their opponents. It is an attitude that helps the players focus. I think Mike does the same with the Packers, but not to the same extent. "Rah, rah, we are the best" attitude is counter-productive; you need to respect every opponent you play. Bulletin Board material has an effect.

 

What does that have to do with fans? Nothing if you are just a fan; but if you are a poster in a message board forum, then the same rules of respect apply. I hate it when Pat fans call the NFC worthless; do we not remember our first Super Bowl win? This board has become inane in the useless fandom chatter.

 

"Teams win because they are better. New England won that Super Bowl because they were better than St. Louis. Whoever wins this upcoming Super Bowl will win it because they are better, not because they “snuck up on the other team.”"

 

You know this statement is false. Every scientists -- those who invent drugs, rockets and space craft -- accounts for random effects, or LUCK, if you will. The best team does not always win. The best scheme, the best players, the most dedicated squad can lose to luck or the weather or to a corrupt ref who calls something he should not (see NBA, for example.)

 

One of the many factors that can contribute to victory is stealth, is the ability to hide schemes or plays or players. If the Packers start mouthing off: "We're the BEST!" They motivate the other team. If Packer fans start mouthing off: "Spygate!!! Cheaters." This will motivate the Patriots players, not just the fans.

 

IF the Packers get to the SB, they should say things like "Nope, Spygate has nothing to do with the Patriots season." This would be the modesty that could help them win the SB. This would be sneaking up on the Pats. (Note: Last time the Pats played the Packers, the Packers had to remove a camera from the sideline. If this is brought up, Mike should just say, "That has nothing to do with this season.")

 

The entire state of Wisconsin should go into full "Shut the <bleep> mode" when it comes to the whole Spygate, Patriots are lucky, Patriots are evil BS. This is how you lower their guard. This is efffective modesty. Respect the bully and then punch him in the nose.

 

"In reality, the Packers may be a year or two off. They are the youngest team in the league. But there’s nothing, NOTHING that hints that any given Sunday they can’t win it all."

 

They could get better, much better, but like so many teams in the NFL, they could get worse. (Name the top teams in the NFC last year. Where are they now? One injury, a different schedule, luck...and it could all fall apart. Ask yourself? Where would the Eagles be if they had somebody who could field a punt in the first game of the season? Where would they be if Feely did not throw that stupid pick against the Pats?) This is the year for the Packers to make a run, make no mistake. The magic can still bring them to the SB. Big underdogs can win, ask any Pats fan.

 

"We will see. "

 

True. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.