FFT Homer Mock Draft Commentary...

[listen2me 23 1,871]

Why do you feel the need to apologize? I was just playing along. I'm giving and taking here. Apparently you don't get my humor.

 

I like the debate.

 

I don't know. Just seems like you are getting mad at everything that is brought up against Dorsey.

[cmh6476 1,023]

Got to agree with you on that one. I don't see a lot of teams trading with the top 7-8 teams. Too much dough on players with questions.

if McFadden were there, that might be the only way

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

if McFadden were there, that might be the only way

 

McFadden potentially or if someone is infatuated with Gholston.

[cmh6476 1,023]

Also I think you've seen evidence of this new Chiefs philosophy. This should be my last piece on the Chiefs pick, unless any others have questions.

 

The Chiefs biggest need last year wasn't WR, it was probably OT, CB, or DT. Yet they went outside of the box and took the best player they thought was left on the board, Dwayne Bowe. So far so good, that should encourage them to take the same approach this year.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

Also I think you've seen evidence of this new Chiefs philosophy. This should be my last piece on the Chiefs pick, unless any others have questions.

 

The Chiefs biggest need last year wasn't WR, it was probably OT, CB, or DT. Yet they went outside of the box and took the best player they thought was left on the board, Dwayne Bowe. So far so good, that should encourage them to take the same approach this year.

 

Still you have to admit WR was a decent size need. I mean who were the WRs? Parker and Kennison? WR isn't as important of a position as a OT or CB, but I think it was just as much of a need. That Off. has went from one of the best, to one of the worst in a couple years.

 

I think need and BPA go hand in hand. GMs needs to balance both in picking a player.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Still you have to admit WR was a decent size need. I mean who were the WRs? Parker and Kennison? WR isn't as important of a position as a OT or CB, but I think it was just as much of a need. That Off. has went from one of the best, to one of the worst in a couple years.

 

I think need and BPA go hand in hand. GMs needs to balance both in picking a player.

 

GM's also need to balance in money when it comes to these 1st few picks, let's not forget that. It's going to be a very large financial commitment so filling a need over a better talent at another position is not good value.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

GM's also need to balance in money when it comes to these 1st few picks, let's not forget that. It's going to be a very large financial commitment so filling a need over a better talent at another position is not good value.

 

I agree with a top 5 pick.

 

But talking about Bowe and the Chiefs last year, who was what 19th pick? Need becomes more of a factor the later you get, unless a super talented player falls.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

I agree with a top 5 pick.

 

But talking about Bowe and the Chiefs last year, who was what 19th pick? Need becomes more of a factor the later you get, unless a super talented player falls.

 

Bowe was a great pick who was good in his rookie year and should be great in the future. The same can't be said for Ted Ginn in Miami and Robert Meachem in NO.

[yostevo 0]

It should be noted that I am actually not going to be partaking in any of the Lion's picks. I retired as a fan and in the signup thread I was simply reiterating that.

[Little Big Head 6]

1.6 Jets take Gholston

 

This was obviously a bigger need before the Calvin Pace signing, but neither Pace or Bryan Thomas have shown any consistancy in their carears. The Jets were terrible at getting pressure on the QB especially before their bye week. Getting Gholston here will allow the Jets to use him as a rotational player with Thomas at DE/OLB in the Jets 3-4 and infuse some youth and athleticism into a previously uninspiring pass rush. Gholston was the best player on the board here imo, and Im glad he landed in the Jets lap

[ROCKET 0]

This draft scenario is the absolute worst case for the Pats. There isn't another player on the board who justifies using the #7 pick on and the salary that goes with it. Even though we don't need another DT I figured getting Ellis or Dorsey would have been great value at the 1.07 assuming Gholston and the Longs were gone.. I don't see any OL, LB, or DB worth taking here. I'd trade down and hope that someone wants Ryan even if I only get a 3rd rounder or so in return. If this unfolds I hope we leapfrog the Jets and get to KC's pick and grab Gholston. Unfortunately unless Ryan is picked we're stuck at #7 in a 6 premiere player draft.

 

Call me crazy but I honestly see the Pats moving up to grab someone they covet as an impact can't miss stud. They won't be this close to the top 5 again for most likely the foreseeable future and if they can burn the Jets in the process (Gholston) I see them all over a move up. We'd still have 2- 3rd rounders so losing a second and an 09 pick would be a solid move for a team that has as few holes to fill as any. If I'm the Pats brass I give up our 08 second rounder and an 09 3rd/4th ? and move up to 5 and grab Gholston meanwhile pi$$ing in the Jets punchbowl.

[Hurricane Ditka 0]

Yo. What kind of time limit on picks are we doing and how many rounds are we going?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Here was my thinking on the pick for NE (sorry that I had to step out and take the kids to get some grub).

 

With Gholston gone, I know that the Pats will try to trade out of this spot. Assuming that they can’t do so (anyone want to take a chance on Matt Ryan?), there are a few players to consider:

 

Leodis McKelvin – more of an Asante Samuel replacement by way of size and skill, but can also be a return guy

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie– high upside type of guy with height and speed combination that is rare in a CB

Keith Rivers – They need help at LB, but he is probably not a 3-4 type of guy

Derrick Harvey – probably a guy that fits the Pats style, but also a little early to reach for this guy

Ryan Clady – Questions about whether Neal is going to be good to go for the season and you have to protect Brady

 

 

When all is said and done, I think that they go with Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. Maybe he can have his cousin take it easy on them when they play SD. His tools are too good to pass up. There will be a ton of questions as to whether he can pick things up, but his Wonderlic is supposedly higher than McKelvin’s and it will be real fun to watch him try to stop Moss in practice.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

1.6 Jets take Gholston

 

This was obviously a bigger need before the Calvin Pace signing, but neither Pace or Bryan Thomas have shown any consistancy in their carears. The Jets were terrible at getting pressure on the QB especially before their bye week. Getting Gholston here will allow the Jets to use him as a rotational player with Thomas at DE/OLB in the Jets 3-4 and infuse some youth and athleticism into a previously uninspiring pass rush. Gholston was the best player on the board here imo, and Im glad he landed in the Jets lap

 

I think Gholston to the Jets is one of the biggest locks of the draft so far. It is still early, but if I were to bet on a pick right now it would be this one.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

This draft scenario is the absolute worst case for the Pats. There isn't another player on the board who justifies using the #7 pick on and the salary that goes with it. Even though we don't need another DT I figured getting Ellis or Dorsey would have been great value at the 1.07 assuming Gholston and the Longs were gone.. I don't see any OL, LB, or DB worth taking here. I'd trade down and hope that someone wants Ryan even if I only get a 3rd rounder or so in return. If this unfolds I hope we leapfrog the Jets and get to KC's pick and grab Gholston. Unfortunately unless Ryan is picked we're stuck at #7 in a 6 premiere player draft.

 

Call me crazy but I honestly see the Pats moving up to grab someone they covet as an impact can't miss stud. They won't be this close to the top 5 again for most likely the foreseeable future and if they can burn the Jets in the process (Gholston) I see them all over a move up. We'd still have 2- 3rd rounders so losing a second and an 09 pick would be a solid move for a team that has as few holes to fill as any. If I'm the Pats brass I give up our 08 second rounder and an 09 3rd/4th ? and move up to 5 and grab Gholston meanwhile pi$$ing in the Jets punchbowl.

 

I doubt that they move up, but I could see them trying to move down. Definitely a worst case scenario, but not an unlikely one. I don't know that people are high on Matt Ryan as a top 7 pick. Given the inability to trade and the players available, I went with the most upside guy.

[Hurricane Ditka 0]

I personally think the Patriots are going to grab a defensive player. Your pick for them makes perfect sense.

[Hurricane Ditka 0]

I doubt that they move up, but I could see them trying to move down. Definitely a worst case scenario, but not an unlikely one. I don't know that people are high on Matt Ryan as a top 7 pick. Given the inability to trade and the players available, I went with the most upside guy.

I think Ryan falls just like Brady Quinn did last year. I am buying in to him not being much higher than some of the guys that will be available later.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

Keith Rivers – They need help at LB, but he is probably not a 3-4 type of guy

Ryan Clady – Questions about whether Neal is going to be good to go for the season and you have to protect Brady

When all is said and done, I think that they go with Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. Maybe he can have his cousin take it easy on them when they play SD. His tools are too good to pass up. There will be a ton of questions as to whether he can pick things up, but his Wonderlic is supposedly higher than McKelvin’s and it will be real fun to watch him try to stop Moss in practice.

 

I think these two are good options unless they really like one of the CBs.

 

I have heard Rivers can play anywhere. So he could be a MLB. I agree that if this was how the draft panned out the Pats should TRY to move down and grab one of the CBs in the middle of the round.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

I think Ryan falls just like Brady Quinn did last year. I am buying in to him not being much higher than some of the guys that will be available later.

 

If he doesn't go #3 to ATL he should go #8? to the Ravens.

 

I didn't like him much at the start of all of this, but every person I see/hear has him at least in the top 10, and many times #3 to ATL.

 

In many "experts" minds he has seperated himself enough from the rest of the guys. If anyone remembers at the start of Draft talk Brohm and Woodson were considered 1st round picks. Now Brohm is considered a 2nd and Woodson a 3rd/4th. Ryan is still considered a top 10 pick. Kiper grades him with the QBs from the Eli, Rivers, and Ben draft.

[cblue 0]

Here was my thinking on the pick for NE (sorry that I had to step out and take the kids to get some grub).

 

With Gholston gone, I know that the Pats will try to trade out of this spot. Assuming that they can’t do so (anyone want to take a chance on Matt Ryan?), there are a few players to consider:

 

Leodis McKelvin – more of an Asante Samuel replacement by way of size and skill, but can also be a return guy

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie– high upside type of guy with height and speed combination that is rare in a CB

Keith Rivers – They need help at LB, but he is probably not a 3-4 type of guy

Derrick Harvey – probably a guy that fits the Pats style, but also a little early to reach for this guy

Ryan Clady – Questions about whether Neal is going to be good to go for the season and you have to protect Brady

When all is said and done, I think that they go with Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. Maybe he can have his cousin take it easy on them when they play SD. His tools are too good to pass up. There will be a ton of questions as to whether he can pick things up, but his Wonderlic is supposedly higher than McKelvin’s and it will be real fun to watch him try to stop Moss in practice.

 

The *pats go with Rodgers-Cromartie.

 

I have always thought of *pats corners as being the shorter quicker type of corners. I think that is the type of corner that fits their system best. At 6' 2'', Rodgers-Cromartie doesn't fit that mold. But, he is a great athlete and he will make a good Cornerback.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

The *pats go with Rodgers-Cromartie.

 

I have always thought of *pats corners as being the shorter quicker type of corners. I think that is the type of corner that fits their system best. At 6' 2'', Rodgers-Cromartie doesn't fit that mold. But, he is a great athlete and he will make a good Cornerback.

 

I thought of that as well and looked at McKelvin. The challenge is that Rodgers-Cromartie is taller AND faster. They are considering moving Merriweather to CB, which would give them a taller CB than they are used to, so this would give them the option of keeping Merriweather at S. The clincher is that it appears that McKelvin is not the brightest bulb on the tree given his Wonderlics. Even though Rodgers-Cromartie was not a lot better, it was enough to push him over the edge in my eyes.

[NorthernVike 2,084]

Lots of D players going off the bored early. I can see this in the real draft as well

[phillybear 366]

Yo. What kind of time limit on picks are we doing and how many rounds are we going?

 

A couple of years ago we went 5 rounds, and I remember that year specifically as the Seahawks had an outstanding draft of several ProBowl players as I pat myself on the back, but I think we usually go 2 to 3 rounds.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

The *pats go with Rodgers-Cromartie.

 

I have always thought of *pats corners as being the shorter quicker type of corners. I think that is the type of corner that fits their system best. At 6' 2'', Rodgers-Cromartie doesn't fit that mold. But, he is a great athlete and he will make a good Cornerback.

 

Fits the mold?

 

So a team would actually want a smaller CB over a taller one? I don't get it? At 6'2 he is too tall for the Pats?

 

Does that make any sense at all?

[cblue 0]

Fits the mold?

 

So a team would actually want a smaller CB over a taller one? I don't get it? At 6'2 he is too tall for the Pats?

 

Does that make any sense at all?

 

 

Yes it does.

 

 

Generally, shorter corners are quicker than taller corners. Some personel managers believe this and there is validity to it. It's just like WR's.....some teams favor tall WR's and some favor shorter quicker WR's. It depends on the system the team runs. Another example would be defensive linemen, some teams like them smaller and quicker. And other teams like big and bulky.

 

It makes sense if you have common sense.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

Yes it does.

Generally, shorter corners are quicker than taller corners. Some personel managers believe this and there is validity to it. It's just like WR's.....some teams favor tall WR's and some favor shorter quicker WR's. It depends on the system the team runs. Another example would be defensive linemen, some teams like them smaller and quicker. And other teams like big and bulky.

 

It makes sense if you have common sense.

 

It would make sense if Cromartie was a slower corner. He is pretty fast and agile.

 

Just because he is taller doesn't mean he isn't fast. Josh Reed for the Bills is a 5'10 WR and is slow as dirt.

 

Again, doesn't make sense.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

Here you go Mr. Common Sense.

 

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr...scromartie.html

 

Looks to be exactly who you say he's not. If the Pats like faster, quicker CBs than he most likely is the best one in the draft. Now if this fast-quick CB has to be 5'10 for some reason than I guess he isn't the CB for them.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Yes it does.

Generally, shorter corners are quicker than taller corners. Some personel managers believe this and there is validity to it. It's just like WR's.....some teams favor tall WR's and some favor shorter quicker WR's. It depends on the system the team runs. Another example would be defensive linemen, some teams like them smaller and quicker. And other teams like big and bulky.

 

It makes sense if you have common sense.

 

I think that you miss a key point that the Patriots have not had the option of taking a CB of that size and speed in recent years. The team plays a lot of zone and they don't typically look for their corners to be a shut down type of player. They use scheme to address that. The main reason is that they have not really had a shut down corner since Ty Law's younger days.

 

If they don't have the option to take Gholston or trade down, then they would be looking for the best playmaker out there. Rodgers-Cromartie is faster than the others and he is taller than the others. Seems like a better option than the others.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

I think that you miss a key point that the Patriots have not had the option of taking a CB of that size and speed in recent years. The team plays a lot of zone and they don't typically look for their corners to be a shut down type of player. They use scheme to address that. The main reason is that they have not really had a shut down corner since Ty Law's younger days.

 

If they don't have the option to take Gholston or trade down, then they would be looking for the best playmaker out there. Rodgers-Cromartie is faster than the others and he is taller than the others. Seems like a better option than the others.

 

And since they play a lot of zone, wouldn't speed not be a #1 concern anyway?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

And since they play a lot of zone, wouldn't speed not be a #1 concern anyway?

 

Absolutely. I think that they might look to have him start out as a nickel guy and let him use that speed to close on people and make some plays. Again, I don't think that they see any of these CB's as being worth top 7 money, but if there is no option to trade out and none of their other guys are there, Rodgers-Cromartie is the best CB in that group.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

I like New England taking Cromartie.

[cblue 0]

Here you go Mr. Common Sense.

 

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr...scromartie.html

 

Looks to be exactly who you say he's not. If the Pats like faster, quicker CBs than he most likely is the best one in the draft. Now if this fast-quick CB has to be 5'10 for some reason than I guess he isn't the CB for them.

 

 

Ya, I read that too. Did you read that L. McKlevin is rated higher on that website. If your "bigger is better" theory was right, then Rodgers-Cromartie would be the #1 rated CB. He's not, and your theory is crap.

 

I am not saying that Rodgers-Cromartie is not a good CB. No one know who is better at this point.

 

I am saying that teams have different opinions on what their ideal player is.

 

Once again, I say, some teams value smaller quicker players more than bigger players. I think that the *pats like smaller quicker CB's. Their history suggests that they don't use taller CB's.

 

It makes sense if you have common sense.

[cblue 0]

And since they play a lot of zone, wouldn't speed not be a #1 concern anyway?

 

 

Who plays better zone, McKlevin or Rogders-Cromartie. You don't know and niether do I. And that website doesn't know either. So I look at the type of player that they have coveted- smaller and quicker CB's.

[cblue 0]

I think that they might look to have him start out as a nickel guy and let him use that speed to close on people and make some plays.

 

That can be said of any CB that they draft in the first round.

 

And I don't have anything against Rodgers-Cromartie. I just think the *pats like a different type of player at that position.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

Ya, I read that too. Did you read that L. McKlevin is rated higher on that website. If your "bigger is better" theory was right, then Rodgers-Cromartie would be the #1 rated CB. He's not, and your theory is crap.

 

I am not saying that Rodgers-Cromartie is not a good CB. No one know who is better at this point.

 

I am saying that teams have different opinions on what their ideal player is.

 

Once again, I say, some teams value smaller quicker players more than bigger players. I think that the *pats like smaller quicker CB's. Their history suggests that they don't use taller CB's.

 

It makes sense if you have common sense.

 

Haha

 

What theory? Can you read? Are you drunk? I never said Cromartie was even the best CB in this draft.

 

I proved to you that Cromartie may be the quickest CB in this draft. That along with his size is a great combo. I never said "bigger is better" and I didn't even say Cromartie was the best CB in the draft. Come back when you know how to read and make sense.

 

You are an idiot.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

Who plays better zone, McKlevin or Rogders-Cromartie. You don't know and niether do I. And that website doesn't know either. So I look at the type of player that they have coveted- smaller and quicker CB's.

 

Again you say "smaller" as if it automatically means quicker too. Why? Cromartie may be the most agile CB in this draft yet he is 6'2.

[Little Big Head 6]

I thought Rodgers Cromartie was a good pick. I think NE would love to trade down and aquire another 1st day pick if that option presents itself during the actual draft

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Here was my thinking on the pick for NE (sorry that I had to step out and take the kids to get some grub).

 

With Gholston gone, I know that the Pats will try to trade out of this spot. Assuming that they can’t do so (anyone want to take a chance on Matt Ryan?), there are a few players to consider:

 

Leodis McKelvin – more of an Asante Samuel replacement by way of size and skill, but can also be a return guy

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie– high upside type of guy with height and speed combination that is rare in a CB

Keith Rivers – They need help at LB, but he is probably not a 3-4 type of guy

Derrick Harvey – probably a guy that fits the Pats style, but also a little early to reach for this guy

Ryan Clady – Questions about whether Neal is going to be good to go for the season and you have to protect Brady

When all is said and done, I think that they go with Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. Maybe he can have his cousin take it easy on them when they play SD. His tools are too good to pass up. There will be a ton of questions as to whether he can pick things up, but his Wonderlic is supposedly higher than McKelvin’s and it will be real fun to watch him try to stop Moss in practice.

 

 

Why is Quentin Groves not even a consideration here? He's as tall as Gholston, only weighs a few less pounds, he's faster than Gholston, and he had 26 sacks while at Auburn. Also, the Pats have already had a private workout with him on Auburn's campus on March 13.

 

I'm not so sure about Rodgers-Cromartie this high. He's been a scary fast riser on draft geek boards based on his height, speed, and potential. He played against crap in college and really didn't even put up that good of numbers. He's a freakish athlete but I'm not sure how good of a football player he is.

[ROCKET 0]

I like Cromartie but I don't see any way they take a CB at the #7 spot. I know this mock doesn't allow trades so I'm fine with the pick in this format. In reality the Pats are'nt going to invest the kind of $$ the 7 spot takes on a rookie CB. Now if they trade down a few spots and add some more picks I can easily see them going CB.

 

I just figure seeing how they are'nt likely to get a pick as high as the #7 that they go hard after a guy like Gholston who they almost never would have a shot at. I also like Herm and the Chiefs as a trading partner. If the Chiefs want Clady or Otah or any lineman they know the Jets at #6 are'nt taking one. And Herm would love to stick it to his old team by lettting the Pats move up to #5. If Gholston is there at #5, (or Chris Long which either is doubtfull IMO) I see a very likely Pats/KC deal unless KC is enamored with Gholston themselves which isn't likely. KC is in a rebuilding mode and aside from Jake Long I see them definately moving down to grab more picks. And the Pats still have 1-1st, 1-2nd and 2 3rd's including a high 3rd from the Raiders so giving up a second rounder and an 09 pick wouldn't hurt too badly. I'm praying Gholston slides to #5 to see if my prediction comes true. Sadly I think he's gone by then.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Why is Quentin Groves not even a consideration here? He's as tall as Gholston, only weighs a few less pounds, he's faster than Gholston, and he had 26 sacks while at Auburn. Also, the Pats have already had a private workout with him on Auburn's campus on March 13.

 

I'm not so sure about Rodgers-Cromartie this high. He's been a scary fast riser on draft geek boards based on his height, speed, and potential. He played against crap in college and really didn't even put up that good of numbers. He's a freakish athlete but I'm not sure how good of a football player he is.

 

They looked at Groves, just like they have looked at other players. He is a later first rounder that I would see them liking if they moved down. They are not sure that he can play the 3-4 and his injuries leave him in a situation where taking him at #7 is way too much of a reach. They could go for Harvey before Groves IMO.