Chad johnson

[Cstriker 2]

He's still got the speed and the skill. But is he tapped out mentally?

 

Admiting to not running routes and working out to sabotage your team's season is a big ###### move. But this is fantasy football after all, and he is likely going to be a 4th-5th round pick..could be great value, if Palmer stays healthy and 85 does'nt have another mental lapse.

 

thoughts? does he get it done 2009?

[Cara 0]

He's still got the speed and the skill. But is he tapped out mentally?

 

Admiting to not running routes and working out to sabotage your team's season is a big ###### move. But this is fantasy football after all, and he is likely going to be a 4th-5th round pick..could be great value, if Palmer stays healthy and 85 does'nt have another mental lapse.

 

thoughts? does he get it done 2009?

 

 

I think he does get it done in 2009. He looked horrible last season and he knows he will never leave Cincy without a great season. Most guys want to make everyone forget their crap season, and he has a ton of pride. He is still young enough to have a few more quality seasons. I will disagree with you on the speed though. He's not a burner, but it doesn't matter when you have Palmer throwing you the ball. Chad will rebound with somewhere in the vicinity of 85 receptions, but I still think he will have fewer TD's than the elite WR's. He's never been a big TD guy, so I wouldn't expect more than 6 or 7. Great value pick in a PPR System, in my opinion.

[remote controller 141]

He's a nut! His "Broke Back" talk, saying he was moving in with the Palmers talk, and his Face Tat twitters, show me a human being on the course of a Britney Spears type meltdown. He lost his protection on the otherside, who by the way was the superior Wr the past 4 years. I honestly feel TJ's immurgence as the better receiver caused this. Chad couldn't handle being the second best receiver on his team and it messed him up. This is gonna get ugly before it goes away. I feel he alone was responsible for the window slamming shut on a promising Bengals team, 3 to 4 yeras ago. The Coach and ownership should have squelched this maniac years ago. I also blame ownership for keeping this worthless Coach.

[jjallans 0]

I think he could have a Top 10 type year this year. He seems to be working out more this offseason than he has in the past, and with TJ gone, I think he will see this as his opportunity to have the spotlight again, which he craves so badly.

[Super Cubs 135]

He could put up top 10 numbers but I think he will be to inconsistant on a weekly basis for me to want him.

[Melissa Stark 1]

I see the Bungles getting it handed to them again in the AFC North and folding early. Palmer or no Palmer.

 

I'm avoiding their players on my FF team.

[Raider 84 29]

I don't see top 10 numbers, maybe top 20. I can't see him scoring more than 7 tds.

[thesitedoc 5]

He's a nut! His "Broke Back" talk, saying he was moving in with the Palmers talk, and his Face Tat twitters, show me a human being on the course of a Britney Spears type meltdown. He lost his protection on the otherside, who by the way was the superior Wr the past 4 years. I honestly feel TJ's immurgence as the better receiver caused this. Chad couldn't handle being the second best receiver on his team and it messed him up. This is gonna get ugly before it goes away. I feel he alone was responsible for the window slamming shut on a promising Bengals team, 3 to 4 yeras ago. The Coach and ownership should have squelched this maniac years ago. I also blame ownership for keeping this worthless Coach.

 

immurgence?

[madd futher mucker 36]

Ochocinco is a great "buy low" this year.

[Larry David 20]

As a dynasty owner who has little depth at WR, I'm keeping Ocho by default. If Palmer stays healthy, Chad can't help but see an improvement in his numbers from last year. That being said, I don't expect to see the production he had two years ago, let alone anything prior to that. I've heard all the off-season sound bytes before and soon as he has one game where he gets roughed up or Palmer doesn't get him the ball enough, everything unravels. I hope I'm wrong of course.

[stonewall 647]

Well, he did promise fans at least 20 TD's this seasonwhile he was on the set of NFL Total Access last week.

 

I am eyeing him as a late round steal........so, heck, I would be happy with half that many.

[Ray_T 628]

I agree he is a bit of a headcase.

 

I wouldnt want him as my WR1 this year(too risky), but maybe as a WR2 I'd be able to put up with his antics and inconsistant results.

 

He's also a decent choice in a 'best ball' format.

[Larry David 20]

Well, he did promise fans at least 20 TD's this seasonwhile he was on the set of NFL Total Access last week.

 

Yeah and I promised my wife I'd paint the shed. Neither one is happening.

[Gepetto 1,042]

Bengals | Palmer says Ochocinco will be go-to receiver Published Mon Jun 22 10:25:04 a.m. CT 2009

(KFFL) The Associated Press reports Cincinnati Bengals QB Carson Palmer reiterated that WR Chad Ochocinco remains his top target within the team's offense. "He's going to play (the lead role) because he deserves to play there," Palmer said. "He's been one of the best receivers in this league for a long time. He's still able to play at that level, and still capable of making big plays and carrying the load offensively at the receiver spot, so he will."

 

 

My take, he has value where he's getting drafted. I think he'll have a good year, but be inconsistent as he usually is except last year when he was consistenly bad.

[49ers_suck 0]

the million dollar question with ocho, can he be consistent? without TJ?

 

i dont know. but if he's there in mid/later rnds i'll take a chance on him.

[GrimeCity 0]

He is already a nut and he has D.Brown behind him which is going to be pushing for some carries..

[stonewall 647]

He is already a nut and he has D.Brown behind him which is going to be pushing for some carries..

 

 

The dog ate my stash, man.

[dehaven123 31]

Great buy low.

Cincy as WC contender.

85= 1300, 10TD's.

LavColes= 1100, 6TD's

[Dan 61]

Laveranues Coles will outperform 85. I just can't get on board with Chad. Too many promises, too much bravado, and it isn't translated onto the field. It's old; it's tired; and I'm not convinced his head is in the game.

[Melissa Stark 1]

Palmer says Ochocinco will be go-to receiver

......By default

 

 

 

I won't disagree with 16 td's dehaven123... be prepared for good weeks and nada weeks, Palmer included..IMO.

Just from the varied opinions here, Ocho's hype(himself), as an "Elite" WR doesn't equal his mouth,

and never has.

 

 

But as a 2nd WR on FF squad, a great deal of potential to be a top tier WR, with alot of risk.

[R8RMick 242]

Carson Palmer is a flat-out stud. If he is right, ie healthy, whoever is his 'go-to' reciever will have a banner year. Also, lost in all his antics is the fierce work ethic that Johnson put in a few years back to get where he is, or was... So it's not like he's unfamiliar with work.

 

Even a clown can get serious with his back against the wall. Palmer was MIA last year. If the real Carson is back this season, Johnson will blow up.

[Dan 61]

Carson Palmer is a flat-out stud. If he is right, ie healthy, whoever is his 'go-to' reciever will have a banner year. Also, lost in all his antics is the fierce work ethic that Johnson put in a few years back to get where he is, or was... So it's not like he's unfamiliar with work.

 

Even a clown can get serious with his back against the wall. Palmer was MIA last year. If the real Carson is back this season, Johnson will blow up.

 

So . . . according to this logic, why was Houshmandzadeh able to thrive without him where Chad wasn't, and why does he (85) suddenly turn it around? That doesn't wash.

[DeaLerZ 0]

I see the Bungles getting it handed to them again in the AFC North and folding early. Palmer or no Palmer.

 

I'm avoiding their players on my FF team.

 

thats really dumb... if they do in fact get it handed to them early which is pretty hard to say at this point in the SUMMER.... they will have to go to the pass, which means Palmer will be throwing it even more and Chad will get getting twice as many balls thrown his way... and how my friend is that a bad thing for these two players that have been Fantasy Studs in the past?? not to mention they have Cedrick Benson at running back... whoopty freaking doo.. they are going to be a pass happy offense all year long with the only thing that has remained consistent over the years... Carson Palmer to Chad Johnson..... Chad Johnson IMO is one of the best Buy Low Candidates this season.. because he is almost sure to bounce back in a huge way... he is definitely one of the WR's that gets attached to his QB's and his production drops when his QB isn't paying him any attention... but so what, who cares that he changed his last name and dances in the endzone... Housh is gone, and Chad is only the guy left on that offense that Palmer completely trusts... i see 80+ receptions, 1200+ yards, and around 6-8tds minimal, which in my book makes him a top 10 wideout with the potential to be a top 3

 

So . . . according to this logic, why was Houshmandzadeh able to thrive without him where Chad wasn't, and why does he (85) suddenly turn it around? That doesn't wash.

 

Housh didn't thrive, he had 900yds and 4tds???

[shovelheadt 68]

So . . . according to this logic, why was Houshmandzadeh able to thrive without him where Chad wasn't, and why does he (85) suddenly turn it around? That doesn't wash.

 

Pretty simple, their games are so different. TJ thrives on the underneath stuff, the 3rd down catches, etc. CJ thrives on the deep balls. Once Palmer went down, it was over for CJ. With as much as Fitzpatrick was running around last year, I'm surprised he got the catches he did.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Who is Chad Johnson?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ochocinco will go as Palmer goes. If Palmer is playing well, then both CJ and Coles will be in good shape. If he is not able to get the ball out to the sidelines with any zip, then I don't think that their receivers will deliver based on expectations.

[shovelheadt 68]

Who is Chad Johnson?

 

I will never call that retard by his new name. I almost feel embarrassed for him.

[Dan 61]

Pretty simple, their games are so different. TJ thrives on the underneath stuff, the 3rd down catches, etc. CJ thrives on the deep balls. Once Palmer went down, it was over for CJ. With as much as Fitzpatrick was running around last year, I'm surprised he got the catches he did.

 

Are you suggesting that he is one-dimensional? If that's the case, doesn't that still make him easier to defend? And doesn't make it less likely that he rebounds this year as well as the supporters seem to hope?

[DeaLerZ 0]

Are you suggesting that he is one-dimensional? If that's the case, doesn't that still make him easier to defend? And doesn't make it less likely that he rebounds this year as well as the supporters seem to hope?

 

true you could make an argument for that... but not a very strong one... look what Chad has done every year that Carson has been healthy, L.Coles is a strong #2 wideout for the bengals that will counter balance Chad just as nicely as Housh did... Chad will bounce back big this year... i can't stand when people think one bad year is the end of a career... do you not like to see people over come???

 

and like i said before.. Chad is emotionally attached to his QB... Carson is back and so is Chad.... look what T.O. does every time he is on a team with a QB he doesn't get along with or hurt his feelings... he blames the QB for all his problems and doesn't look at his lack of effort as any part of when his game has gone down... Chad didn't put near as much effort because he didn't want Fitzpatrick throwing the ball to him.. he wanted Carson... probably got frustrated early while Fitzpatrick was building whatever chemistry he could find and stopped trying as hard.. which he admitted too

[Dan 61]

true you could make an argument for that... but not a very strong one... look what Chad has done every year that Carson has been healthy, L.Coles is a strong #2 wideout for the bengals that will counter balance Chad just as nicely as Housh did... Chad will bounce back big this year... i can't stand when people think one bad year is the end of a career... do you not like to see people over come???

 

and like i said before.. Chad is emotionally attached to his QB... Carson is back and so is Chad.... look what T.O. does every time he is on a team with a QB he doesn't get along with or hurt his feelings... he blames the QB for all his problems and doesn't look at his lack of effort as any part of when his game has gone down... Chad didn't put near as much effort because he didn't want Fitzpatrick throwing the ball to him.. he wanted Carson... probably got frustrated early while Fitzpatrick was building whatever chemistry he could find and stopped trying as hard.. which he admitted too

 

Um.

 

Back up a second, and try not to make assumptions about where I'm coming from. TJ outproduced Chad four years in a row. Last year was just the worst case. I'm not writing off Chad for one down year. I'm skeptical that he will bounce back, because the game is very much a mental game, and 85 is showing that he struggles in that area. It's easy to excuse it because it was Fitzpatrick, but it was Fitzpatrick for TJ, as well. I know, I know, Chad admitted it; but it doesn't change the reality that he has shown that he is prone to letting things get into his head. The burden of evidence lies with the supporters, not with the detractors. He is still a headcase, evidenced in many actions.

 

Yes, Palmer is back, and he is Chad's "boy", but that doesn't ensure results alone. Tell me why I'm supposed to now accept the bravado that's guaranteeing 20 TDs from a guy that can be shut down by a dedicated corner. Tell me why I should believe that half those numbers are realistic. Because Palmer is back? So everything is hunky-dory now . . . good luck with that.

[R8RMick 242]

So . . . according to this logic, why was Houshmandzadeh able to thrive without him where Chad wasn't, and why does he (85) suddenly turn it around? That doesn't wash.

 

 

Respectfully, I really haven't used logic to break down an argument since college. This was just my take on a player's situation. Housh? I actually had him last year and he killed me. But I felt that was attributed to the QB situation. Look, I'm no fan of Ochocinco. But I do respect the way he used to study film with Palmer and how they worked to get their route timing down in private practices. It's not totally unreasonable to expect a player that once possessed this work ethic to get motivated and achieve that level again. Still, having said that, my faith is in Carson Palmer's ability as a QB. I expect he'll bring out what pro-bowl ability that may be left in Johnson.

 

You mentioned 'head case.' Several times. I'm not one of those fans who judges a player on their actions off the field (or even on it in Ocho's case.) I care whether they score TD's. I just watched TO get railroaded out of Dallas by a team that will SORELY miss him this season. All because he was a problem child off the field. I actually didn't think he was that bad here. Much of it was overblown by a leering Dallas media. In perspective, I don't really care that Johnson thinks he can score 20 TD's this year, or whined for a trade in the offseason. If he can perform at a level that he performed at prior to last season, none of it matters.

[DeaLerZ 0]

Um.

 

Back up a second, and try not to make assumptions about where I'm coming from. TJ outproduced Chad four years in a row. Last year was just the worst case. I'm not writing off Chad for one down year. I'm skeptical that he will bounce back, because the game is very much a mental game, and 85 is showing that he struggles in that area. It's easy to excuse it because it was Fitzpatrick, but it was Fitzpatrick for TJ, as well. I know, I know, Chad admitted it; but it doesn't change the reality that he has shown that he is prone to letting things get into his head. The burden of evidence lies with the supporters, not with the detractors. He is still a headcase, evidenced in many actions.

 

Yes, Palmer is back, and he is Chad's "boy", but that doesn't ensure results alone. Tell me why I'm supposed to now accept the bravado that's guaranteeing 20 TDs from a guy that can be shut down by a dedicated corner. Tell me why I should believe that half those numbers are realistic. Because Palmer is back? So everything is hunky-dory now . . . good luck with that.

 

first off... he has been a headcase his whole career that didn't happen over night... so i don't think that will affect his numbers...

 

second off... i never even said anywhere close to half those numbers... i said something like 80+ receptions, 1200+ yards, and 6-8tds.. which gives him great value for where he is going in the drafts...

[gridiron whirlwinds 2]

I have had Chad on my Fantasy team for about 6 years now , as we have a keeper league.

 

Our league is a TD only league.....so throw out all the catches and yards.....he has only gotten double digit td's in one of those years I believe.

 

I will not be keeping him this year, I will be keeping RB Ray Rice instead.

 

I just don't see Chad scoring any more than 10 td's, and that would be a great year for him....I am going to guess 7-8, as that seems to be the norm.

[fantasymind 1]

Don't believe the hype---this has all of the makings of a guy who everyone and their mother will be targeting as a "buy low" guy, which will mean that someone will likely end up overpaying for him as a way to make sure they get the "bounce back player of the year" and can then trumpet to anyone who will listen that they had the balls to reach for a "potential top 3 wideout"...the reality is, even the best case scenario probably ain't that great. For instance, even if he "bounces back" to pre-'08 form, don't forget that he was one of the most wildly inconsistent of the "top" wrs, week to week, even at his best. As in, three down weeks, and then a 3 td game, followed by four down weeks, then a 2 td game...A couple of years ago, his numbers were almost entirely found in a few week span in the middle of the season---just the type of guy that kills in a h2h league--too good to bench, too inconsistent to win each week. So, if he "bounces back" to that, you have yourself a potential lineup headache each week. And, if he produces like last season, you spent a mid round pick on a guy who won't ever crack your lineup. The best advice I would give is to draft him ONLY after you have three or four quality options on your roster that makes him a complete luxury pick...If he puts up top 10 numbers, you have a steal, if not, no big deal...Otherwise, I'd let some other poor sap overpay and NEED 85 to produce like it was a few years ago.

[gridiron whirlwinds 2]

Don't believe the hype---this has all of the makings of a guy who everyone and their mother will be targeting as a "buy low" guy, which will mean that someone will likely end up overpaying for him as a way to make sure they get the "bounce back player of the year" and can then trumpet to anyone who will listen that they had the balls to reach for a "potential top 3 wideout"...the reality is, even the best case scenario probably ain't that great. For instance, even if he "bounces back" to pre-'08 form, don't forget that he was one of the most wildly inconsistent of the "top" wrs, week to week, even at his best. As in, three down weeks, and then a 3 td game, followed by four down weeks, then a 2 td game...A couple of years ago, his numbers were almost entirely found in a few week span in the middle of the season---just the type of guy that kills in a h2h league--too good to bench, too inconsistent to win each week. So, if he "bounces back" to that, you have yourself a potential lineup headache each week. And, if he produces like last season, you spent a mid round pick on a guy who won't ever crack your lineup. The best advice I would give is to draft him ONLY after you have three or four quality options on your roster that makes him a complete luxury pick...If he puts up top 10 numbers, you have a steal, if not, no big deal...Otherwise, I'd let some other poor sap overpay and NEED 85 to produce like it was a few years ago.

 

 

Very well said....I could not agree more.

[stonewall 647]

I have had Chad on my Fantasy team for about 6 years now , as we have a keeper league.

 

Our league is a TD only league.....so throw out all the catches and yards.....he has only gotten double digit td's in one of those years I believe.

 

I will not be keeping him this year, I will be keeping RB Ray Rice instead.

 

I just don't see Chad scoring any more than 10 td's, and that would be a great year for him....I am going to guess 7-8, as that seems to be the norm.

 

 

I thought I was the only one left who was in a TD-only league. I am in another "normal" league also, but our TD only league has been around since 85, and it is actually a blast.......live draft, lots of history, etc.

 

Not many left. I guess I better pick up Duckett......

[Doozer 0]

IMO it all depends where you draft him. Mid to late fourth I would consider him... fifth round or later and he's a steal. If Palmer is healthy that only helps his case, and if Benson is able to run the ball it will give them a Rudi Johnson like presence and open up the play action, something the Bengals haven't had in a long, long time. Also, he has Coles on the other side who is no slouch. The TJ love is BS imo, cant wait to watch him fail in Seattle... where receivers go to die. (or is that chicago Muhsin Mohammed )

 

Their defense will also be more competitive this year which means they might actually win some games and keep 85 relatively happy.

[Gladiators 1,924]

Don't believe the hype---this has all of the makings of a guy who everyone and their mother will be targeting as a "buy low" guy, which will mean that someone will likely end up overpaying for him as a way to make sure they get the "bounce back player of the year" and can then trumpet to anyone who will listen that they had the balls to reach for a "potential top 3 wideout"...the reality is, even the best case scenario probably ain't that great. For instance, even if he "bounces back" to pre-'08 form, don't forget that he was one of the most wildly inconsistent of the "top" wrs, week to week, even at his best. As in, three down weeks, and then a 3 td game, followed by four down weeks, then a 2 td game...A couple of years ago, his numbers were almost entirely found in a few week span in the middle of the season---just the type of guy that kills in a h2h league--too good to bench, too inconsistent to win each week. So, if he "bounces back" to that, you have yourself a potential lineup headache each week. And, if he produces like last season, you spent a mid round pick on a guy who won't ever crack your lineup. The best advice I would give is to draft him ONLY after you have three or four quality options on your roster that makes him a complete luxury pick...If he puts up top 10 numbers, you have a steal, if not, no big deal...Otherwise, I'd let some other poor sap overpay and NEED 85 to produce like it was a few years ago.

 

I completely agree. He has potential to be good, but not great. I've drafted him a few times over the years and he seems to be a guy that will put up 2 - 3 huge games during the year, but the rest of the season he's a turd. He's obviously not a WR1, but I'm looking for a guy that's going to put up 70-80 yards each week and a touchdown every other week for my WR2. In other words...consistency.

[The Moz 69]

right now in round 5 - 85 is a total steal. 85 ends up a top 10 if not ebtter WR by seasons end.

[Dan 61]

right now in round 5 - 85 is a total steal. 85 ends up a top 10 if not ebtter WR by seasons end.

 

Respectfully . . . you're dreaming.

[Houston Texans 10]

TJ outproduced Chad four years in a row. Last year was just the worst case.

How so?

 

 

 

2004

TJ- 73 rec/ 978 yds/ 4 TD/ 31 FF WR rank

85- 95 rec/ 1274 yds/ 9 TD/ 9 FF WR rank

2005

TJ- 78 rec/ 956 yds/ 7 TD/ 14 FF WR ran

85- 97 rec/ 1432 yds/ 9 TD/ 4 FF WR ran

2006

TJ- 90 rec/ 1081 yds/ 9 TD/ 11 FF WR rank

85- 87 rec/ 1369 yds/ 7 TD/ 4 FF WR rank

2007

TJ- 112 rec/ 1143 yds/ 12 TD/ 7 FF WR rank

85- 93 rec/ 1440 yds/ 8 TD/ 6 FF WR rank

2008

TJ- 92 rec/ 904 yds/ 4 TD/ 31 FF WR rank

85- 53 rec/ 540 yds/ 4 TD/ 50 FF WR rank

 

From 2004-2007, TJ was BEHIND 85 in fantasy points and receiving yards. From 2004-2006, TJ was BEHIND 85 in yardage, and from 2004-2005, TJ was BEHIND 85 in TDs. The only year you could make the claim that TJ passed 85 was 2007, and even then TJ finished behind 85 in fantasy rankings (non-PPR).

 

The bottom line is that the Cincy offense sucked last year. It started with Palmer's injury, but they also had a BAD O-line. As a result, Cincy had to rely on dink and dunk passes. These are the routes that TJ runs, not 85. Therefore, TJ's production suffered less. Couple that with the fact that 85 is a prima donna type WR and he pouted when he realized the team wasn't going to win and he wasn't getting the opportunity to put up #s. Do you realize that Cincy was dead last in YPA last year (actually tied with Cleveland at 5.2 YPA)? They were 10th in 2007, 5th in 2006, & 7th in 2005. It wasn't just 85 who had a bad year last year, it was the entire offense.

 

Now, look at these factors:

1-85 is not hurt (yet) as he was going into the season last year

2-Palmer is back, is reportedly healthy

3-TJ is gone, but Coles is a more than adequate replacement to keep teams from just focusing on 85

4-The O-line should be improved

5-The schedule-it's not easy: games against Baltimore (2x), Steelers (2x), Vikings, Chargers, Packers, Texans, and maybe the Jets figure to be games the Bengals will be/get behind and have to throw more

 

Based on the fact that 85's bad year wasn't his alone, but a wasted year for the whole team, I'm reluctant to say he's done.

 

83 catches (a low projection-before last year, he hasn't had less than 87 catches since his second year)

1200 yards (again a low projection-this averages out to 14.4 YPC; his career average is 14.6 YPC, and that includes his rookie year and last year which were well below his other year's averages)

6 TDs (also a low projection-he's averaged 6.7 TDs/year, and that is including his 1 TD rookie year, and his 4 TD year last year)

 

That would have made him the 12 ranked WR in 2008 (non-PPR), and makes him my 13th rank WR for 2009 projections. I consider those to be his floor projections (barring injury), with the potential for another 100-200 yards and 2-3 TDs, which would make his ceiling projections around 1400 yards, 9 TDs. Those numbers put him in my top 5 WR projections.

 

So for me, I see a good WR2 as his floor, and a good WR1 as his ceiling. Right now his ADP is an early to mid 5th round pick. Getting a (possibly) top 5 WR there is good value.