Uh-oh. Middle class tax HIKE on the way?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Looks like Obama is willing to throw the middle class under the bus (and his promise not to raise ANY taxes on anyone making less than $250k) for his Socialized medicine scheme.

 

WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama's treasury secretary on Sunday said he cannot rule out higher taxes to help tame an exploding budget deficit and his chief economic adviser would not dismiss raising them on middle-class Americans as part of a health care overhaul.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32260411/ns/politics-white_house

[BLS 313]

Figures.

[MDC 5,990]

Obama!

[Vikings4ever 496]

The last time we had a surplus, we had a fiscally conservative congress, a fairly fiscally moderate Democrat in the White House, during one of the greatest economies in the history of our country, which was riding two bubbles that bit us in the ass when the burst (tech and housing).

 

The surplus wasn't even enough to cover that year's interest on the debt. And that was when the debt was half the size.

 

The only way we can become sustainable is with massive budget cuts.

[GettnHuge 1]

Bush

[Recliner Pilot 61]

The last time we had a surplus, we had a fiscally conservative congress, a fairly fiscally moderate Democrat in the White House, during one of the greatest economies in the history of our country, which was riding two bubbles that bit us in the ass when the burst (tech and housing).

 

The surplus wasn't even enough to cover that year's interest on the debt. And that was when the debt was half the size.

 

The only way we can become sustainable is with massive budget cuts.

 

And the surplus was a farce because they had to steal the SS surplus to offset the actual deficit. Without that there would have been no "surplus".

[Brad GLuckman 518]

As much as I don't want my taxes to go up....I would be ok with it if it was coupled with big spending cuts. For some reason, I don't see that happening

[kpbuckeye 2]

'Read my lips"

 

sealed his fate, Obama is about to seal his.

[surferskin 30]

Yeah, let's raise taxes in the middle of a recession. Brilliant!

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

'Read my lips"

 

sealed his fate, Obama is about to seal his.

 

Agreed. If Obama raises taxes, he can kiss his second term goodbye.

[KSB2424 3,087]

In fairness, he said that they are not ruling it out. It hasn't happened yet.

 

I think it would be political suicide for Obama and any bill that does that wouldn't pass congress as it would be political suicide for the people that vote it in as well. Most of the Democrats including Obama used the "No person who makes less than 200K will pay more taxes" line for a couple years now.

[RLLD 3,563]

The consumer is the force that will "bail out" our economy.....if we stop baling out banks and car makers and instead use our resources to help improve things for the consumer then our economy will lurch into gear almost instantly....

 

But the average consumer doe snot have a "lobby" throwing cash at the politicians...

[Mungwater 589]

In fairness, he said that they are not ruling it out. It hasn't happened yet.

 

I think it would be political suicide for Obama and any bill that does that wouldn't pass congress as it would be political suicide for the people that vote it in as well. Most of the Democrats including Obama used the "No person who makes less than 200K will pay more taxes" line for a couple years now.

 

The money has to come from somewhere, I don't know where else you can get it besides major budget cuts, which you know they aren't going to do.

 

Has anyone else seen that email forward showing the amount of staff the first lady has? I usually just ignore that BS, but her staff has a payroll of like 1.7Mil. Jackie Kennedy only had two, and Mamie Eisenhower only had a secretary, and she had to pay that salary out of her own pocket.

[Bert 1,110]

The consumer is the force that will "bail out" our economy.....if we stop baling out banks and car makers and instead use our resources to help improve things for the consumer then our economy will lurch into gear almost instantly....

 

But the average consumer doe snot have a "lobby" throwing cash at the politicians...

 

[KSB2424 3,087]

The money has to come from somewhere, I don't know where else you can get it besides major budget cuts, which you know they aren't going to do.

 

Has anyone else seen that email forward showing the amount of staff the first lady has? I usually just ignore that BS, but her staff has a payroll of like 1.7Mil. Jackie Kennedy only had two, and Mamie Eisenhower only had a secretary, and she had to pay that salary out of her own pocket.

Obama is in a conundrum. He wants to implement massive costly changes, yet he vowed not to raise taxes on the middle class. An impossible tight rope to walk. The "rich" can only be taxed but so much, and that in and of itself will not fund all of this overhaul.

 

Obama either has to back off the gas pedal on his massive liberal agenda, or he is gonna have to break one of his biggest promises of his campaign that effects most of the voting public. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Strike 4,111]

Obama has already broken his promise not to raise taxes on those making less than 250k. This would just be more blatant.

[GettnHuge 1]

Obama is in a conundrum. He wants to implement massive costly changes, yet he vowed not to raise taxes on the middle class. An impossible tight rope to walk. The "rich" can only be taxed but so much, and that in and of itself will not fund all of this overhaul.

 

Obama either has to back off the gas pedal on his massive liberal agenda, or he is gonna have to break one of his biggest promises of his campaign that effects most of the voting public. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

 

remember 1992? clinton and his middle class tax promises?

 

george stephanopolous after leaving the admin: That was a promise we never intended to keep.

 

in 92 withguys like carville the strategy changed. They figured that getting power was more important than keeping promises.

So Crinton went out there and promised everything under the sun. Get the power and you have the podium. By the time the

next election comes around, those promises are long forgotten. Then it was Gore's turn, but he didn't want any Crnton help or

advice and he lost. Kerry had no chance. But Osama played the same erection game that Crinton did, promise everything

knowing that it's not truthful...but as long as you defeat your opponent and have the power. The ridiculous idea that he was

going to cut taxes for 95% of americans when not even close to that many pay taxes, should have told everyone anywhere

that most of these 'promises' were bullshiz.

[DankNuggs 305]

Barack O'bait'n'switch

[Recliner Pilot 61]

remember 1992? clinton and his middle class tax promises?

 

george stephanopolous after leaving the admin: That was a promise we never intended to keep.

 

in 92 withguys like carville the strategy changed. They figured that getting power was more important than keeping promises.

So Crinton went out there and promised everything under the sun. Get the power and you have the podium. By the time the

next election comes around, those promises are long forgotten. Then it was Gore's turn, but he didn't want any Crnton help or

advice and he lost. Kerry had no chance. But Osama played the same erection game that Crinton did, promise everything

knowing that it's not truthful...but as long as you defeat your opponent and have the power. The ridiculous idea that he was

going to cut taxes for 95% of americans when not even close to that many pay taxes, should have told everyone anywhere

that most of these 'promises' were bullshiz.

 

Hell, Clinton didn't even wait till he had power.........he raised taxes before taking office.

[NewbieJr 541]

Obama has already broken his promise not to raise taxes on those making less than 250k. This would just be more blatant.

Agreed.

 

I also agree with kpbuckeye and titansandabunchofotherwords about this possibly costing him a second term.

[Greedo 13]

Looks like Obama is willing to throw the middle class under the bus (and his promise not to raise ANY taxes on anyone making less than $250k) for his Socialized medicine scheme.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32260411/ns/politics-white_house

 

Fortunately BHO is not the treasury secretary, and neither BHO nor Geithner has a vote in congress, where the tax increase will come from.

 

The only way we can become sustainable is with massive budget cuts.

 

There are 2 ways. Increase taxes is another.

 

And BTW - there are only 3 programs that make up the massive portion of the budget: interest on the debt, medicare/medicaid, and SS. Should we default on the debt, or cut one of the other 2 programs?

 

I'd personally prefer to eliminate Social Security, but keep the SS tax in place as a "pay down the debt" tax - it's the only place those dollars would be allowed to go, until the debt is paid down.

[GettnHuge 1]

Fortunately BHO is not the treasury secretary, and neither BHO nor Geithner has a vote in congress, where the tax increase will come from.

There are 2 ways. Increase taxes is another.

 

And BTW - there are only 3 programs that make up the massive portion of the budget: interest on the debt, medicare/medicaid, and SS. Should we default on the debt, or cut one of the other 2 programs?

 

I'd personally prefer to eliminate Social Security, but keep the SS tax in place as a "pay down the debt" tax - it's the only place those dollars would be allowed to go, until the debt is paid down.

 

uhh you left out defense spending which is about equal to SS or medicare. Debt interest...at least until now...only makes up about 6-8%

McCain was blasted last fall for suggesting that outside of those 3 biggies, there be a spending freeze -and- major bureaucratic cuts

[Greedo 13]

uhh you left out defense spending which is about equal to SS or medicare. Debt interest...at least until now...only makes up about 6-8%

McCain was blasted last fall for suggesting that outside of those 3 biggies, there be a spending freeze -and- major bureaucratic cuts

 

Defense spending is one of the purposes of government, and shouldn't go away, so I didn't include it. I don't consider that spending "program", if you will, optional, though the content is certainly subject to debate.

 

Debt interest is going to grow as a percentage, certainly in the short term.

 

McCain was blasted because it's the 3 biggies that need to be addressed, not the other window dressing.

[GettnHuge 1]

Defense spending is one of the purposes of government, and shouldn't go away, so I didn't include it. I don't consider that spending "program", if you will, optional, though the content is certainly subject to debate.

 

Debt interest is going to grow as a percentage, certainly in the short term.

 

McCain was blasted because it's the 3 biggies that need to be addressed, not the other window dressing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Fed...g_-_FY_2007.png

17% other discretionary needs to take a hit

[Strike 4,111]

Fortunately BHO is not the treasury secretary, and neither BHO nor Geithner has a vote in congress, where the tax increase will come from.

There are 2 ways. Increase taxes is another.

 

Are you suggesting that if congress votes for tax increases but BHO doesn't sign them, they still become law?

[Greedo 13]

Looks like Obama is willing to throw the middle class under the bus (and his promise not to raise ANY taxes on anyone making less than $250k) for his Socialized medicine scheme.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32260411/ns/politics-white_house

 

 

Are you suggesting that if congress votes for tax increases but BHO doesn't sign them, they still become law?

 

No. I was suggesting 2 things:

 

1) Geithner is not BHO. A quote from Geithner does not equal BHO throwing the middle class under the bus, or eliminating a campaign promise.

 

2) I was suggesting that even if BHO wants to break his promise, he cannot pass a bill, he can only sign one that comes across his desk that was passed by Congress.

 

While it's conceptually possible that congress could vote for a tax hike, BHO could veto, congress could override (the scenario you reference in your post), this seems unlikely to me, and is not at all what my post you quoted suggests.

[GettnHuge 1]

No. I was suggesting 2 things:

 

1) Geithner is not BHO. A quote from Geithner does not equal BHO throwing the middle class under the bus, or eliminating a campaign promise.

 

2) I was suggesting that even if BHO wants to break his promise, he cannot pass a bill, he can only sign one that comes across his desk that was passed by Congress.

 

While it's conceptually possible that congress could vote for a tax hike, BHO could veto, congress could override (the scenario you reference in your post), this seems unlikely to me, and is not at all what my post you quoted suggests.

 

1. Geithner has less a problem being honest about something political since he's not elected.

 

2. Osama isn't going to say: lets raise their taxes. He's going to be like Crinton who came on tv, said the economy was worse

than expected and that americans will have to "contribute more" and never mention the words: tax increase. I remember back

in the day Limbaugh's response was: just tell the IRS you don't wish to contribute this year.

 

3. Osama will find a scapegoat or a villain for this. It will be slipped onto a bill that is guaranteed to pass and Osama will act like

he is reluctantly signing it. Something like this will happen. He's a corrupt lyng chicago politician

[Strike 4,111]

No. I was suggesting 2 things:

 

1) Geithner is not BHO. A quote from Geithner does not equal BHO throwing the middle class under the bus, or eliminating a campaign promise.

 

2) I was suggesting that even if BHO wants to break his promise, he cannot pass a bill, he can only sign one that comes across his desk that was passed by Congress.

 

While it's conceptually possible that congress could vote for a tax hike, BHO could veto, congress could override (the scenario you reference in your post), this seems unlikely to me, and is not at all what my post you quoted suggests.

 

My point is you're being disingenuous. First of all, Geithner works directly for Obama. He doesn't say something unless it's an official White House stance. If he did he'd be sure to specify that he was NOT speaking for the White House. Second, Obama is for all intents and purposes king of the democrats. He knows what's going in to legislation before almost anyone does. So his involvement is not just in signing the bill in to law. He has a significant role in the creation of the bill to begin with despite the fact that he's not in Congress anymore.

[MDC 5,990]

The only way to really balance the budget is by cutting spending - in the form of social security, Medicare and military spending - AND increasing taxes.

 

hth

[Greedo 13]

My point is you're being disingenuous. First of all, Geithner works directly for Obama. He doesn't say something unless it's an official White House stance. If he did he'd be sure to specify that he was NOT speaking for the White House. Second, Obama is for all intents and purposes king of the democrats. He knows what's going in to legislation before almost anyone does. So his involvement is not just in signing the bill in to law. He has a significant role in the creation of the bill to begin with despite the fact that he's not in Congress anymore.

 

Surely you're not suggesting that no employee of an administration has ever said anything not on the agenda? I see stuff on here about Biden going off the reservation weekly, for one example.

 

BHO may have a say in creation of the bill, but he doesn't pass it. And he may not have votes for it, even in his own party. Look no further than what the Blue Dogs have done to make adjustments in the health care bill for an example.

 

I'm downplaying the excessive concern in this thread from a quote by the treasury secretary regarding tax increases, and the claim that BHO is breaking a campaign promise because Geithner said it, simple as that.

[Strike 4,111]

Surely you're not suggesting that no employee of an administration has ever said anything not on the agenda? I see stuff on here about Biden going off the reservation weekly, for one example.

 

BHO may have a say in creation of the bill, but he doesn't pass it. And he may not have votes for it, even in his own party. Look no further than what the Blue Dogs have done to make adjustments in the health care bill for an example.

 

I'm downplaying the excessive concern in this thread from a quote by the treasury secretary regarding tax increases, and the claim that BHO is breaking a campaign promise because Geithner said it, simple as that.

 

 

Larry Summers said essentially the same thing as Geithner. Please don't pretend this wasn't a coordinated message. The bottom line is it's been apparent to anyone with half a brain that Obama couldn't finance his agenda without taxing "regular" people. It's simply not economically feasible. The only people believing otherwise are the Obama kool aid drinkers. This is just a step in Obama's administration setting the table for these inevitable tax increases.

[gocolts 300]

The only way to really balance the budget is by cutting spending - in the form of social security, Medicare and military spending - AND increasing taxes.

 

hth

Funny how for all these years the Dems have been saying that the Repubs want to cut your SS and benefits. Crazy to think that the ones who have been lying about the repubs wanting to cut SS are the ones who keep talking about doing just what they said the GOP would do for all these years.

[shake_a_leg 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090803/ap_on_.../us_obama_taxes

 

WASHINGTON – In a rebuke to the Treasury secretary, the White House said Monday that President Barack Obama remains opposed to any tax hike for families earning up to $250,000.

 

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs restated the assurance after Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and National Economic Council Director Larry Summers appeared Sunday to leave open the possibility Obama would tap middle-class Americans' income to reduce the deficit or help pay for a health insurance overhaul.

 

"I'm going to deal with this and I'll do this one more time," Gibbs said after repeated questions from reporters about the differences between the economists and Obama. "The president was clear. He made a commitment in the campaign. That commitment stands."

 

 

Maybe we should just wait to see how it all actually plays out?

[Strike 4,111]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090803/ap_on_.../us_obama_taxes

 

Maybe we should just wait to see how it all actually plays out?

 

I suppose Geithner and Summers could have calibrated their remarks better......

[MDC 5,990]

Funny how for all these years the Dems have been saying that the Repubs want to cut your SS and benefits. Crazy to think that the ones who have been lying about the repubs wanting to cut SS are the ones who keep talking about doing just what they said the GOP would do for all these years.

 

Yes we have to either up the age for SS or cut benefits - that's a given. And the GOP needs to accept some serious cuts to the massively bloated military. And we'll probably have to raise taxes on top of that. Neither party has been honest or serious about balancing the budget.

[GettnHuge 1]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090803/ap_on_.../us_obama_taxes

 

Maybe we should just wait to see how it all actually plays out?

 

 

plays out? and when you're losing more to the gov't in taxes you'll say: why didn't anyone stop ths?!

[Vikings4ever 496]

Yes we have to either up the age for SS or cut benefits - that's a given. And the GOP needs to accept some serious cuts to the massively bloated military. And we'll probably have to raise taxes on top of that. Neither party has been honest or serious about balancing the budget.

Personally, I'd be just fine with closing a lot of military bases around the world. We've got bases in something like 200 countries around the world. I'm not sure how much that would help, but it's something.

[MDC 5,990]

Personally, I'd be just fine with closing a lot of military bases around the world. We've got bases in something like 200 countries around the world. I'm not sure how much that would help, but it's something.

 

Agreed. And one of the 2 things I can remember ever agreeing with Bush on was at least partly privatizing social security (the other thing was a day worker program for Messicans).

[gocolts 300]

Yes we have to either up the age for SS or cut benefits - that's a given. And the GOP needs to accept some serious cuts to the massively bloated military. And we'll probably have to raise taxes on top of that. Neither party has been honest or serious about balancing the budget.

However, raising taxes more often than not only decreases revenue. So raising taxes is the worst idea, if the goal is to bring in more tax money. Upping the age on SS will be tough to sell, but I am on the fence on that. Cutting seems insane. You can't hardly live on SS now, so cutting benefits doesn't sound particularly reasonable.

 

It really pisses me off to see these focks talk about cutting benefits to SS while they won't even consider cutting other things, like foreign aid and freebies to illegal aliens. We always here the dems talk about how important education and SS is, and they may be right. However, when things start to get tough, like in California, the first thing they talk about cutting is education and benefits for the poor. It's easy to see where their priorities are. Bow down to the foreigners and illegals. Fock the American people who have worked their whole lives for this country. Outrageous.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

However, raising taxes more often than not only decreases revenue. So raising taxes is the worst idea, if the goal is to bring in more tax money.

 

Is this true? I've heard this before, but I've also heard people say that's a flawed theory