Ryan Plan not working out too well for Republicans

[IGotWorms 4,060]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/us/politics/27congress.html?_r=1&hp

 

House G.O.P. Members Face Voter Anger Over Budget

By JENNIFER STEINHAUER and CARL HULSE

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — In central Florida, a Congressional town meeting erupted into near chaos on Tuesday as attendees accused a Republican lawmaker of trying to dismantle Medicare while providing tax cuts to corporations and affluent Americans.

 

At roughly the same time in Wisconsin, Representative Paul D. Ryan, the architect of the Republican budget proposal, faced a packed town meeting, occasional boos and a skeptical audience as he tried to lay out his party’s rationale for overhauling the health insurance program for retirees.

 

In a church theater here on Tuesday evening, a meeting between Representative Allen B. West and some of his constituents began on a chaotic note, with audience members quickly on their feet, some heckling him and others loudly defending him. “You’re not going to intimidate me,” Mr. West said.

 

After 10 days of trying to sell constituents on their plan to overhaul Medicare, House Republicans in multiple districts appear to be increasingly on the defensive, facing worried and angry questions from voters and a barrage of new attacks from Democrats and their allies.

 

The proposed new approach to Medicare — a centerpiece of a budget that Republican leaders have hailed as a courageous effort to address the nation’s long-term fiscal problems — has been a constant topic at town-hall-style sessions and other public gatherings during a two-week Congressional recess that provided the first chance for lawmakers to gauge reaction to the plan.

 

Might I suggest that targeting Medicare is not politically viable?

[Voltaire 5,363]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/us/politics/27congress.html?_r=1&hp

 

 

 

Might I suggest that targeting Medicare is not politically viable?

This is what I worried about.

 

The GOP put it's neck on the line by doing the right thing and now they're getting punished for it. The same thing will happen in reverse if tax increases are put on the table.

[penultimatestraw 473]

This is what I worried about.

 

The GOP put it's neck on the line by doing the right thing and now they're getting punished for it. The same thing will happen in reverse if tax increases are put on the table.

Targeting Medicare needs to be done, but they have to address the cost of healthcare rather than assuming the free market will figure it out and forcing the reluctant consumers to pay more. Private insurance has played a good part in our current mess, though they base most of their pricing on Medicare.

 

The fact is, sophisticated healthcare is expensive, and not a money making venture for most hospitals. Meanwhile outpatient private practices are forced to move patients through 15 minute visit assembly lines to pay for overhead and realize some profit. If the goal is determined purely by business' standard, maximizing $, you emphasize procedures with high profit margins (like plastic surgery, dermatology, Lasik, chemotherapy mammograms and cardiac stress tests), not all of which are critical to health. This may be one of the reasons almost all of the industrialized world has some sort of government-sponsored healthcare. If you want to learn a little about the topic of healthcare reform, I suggest the Commonwealth Fund's "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall" publications, which compare US healthcare to other world leaders. Cliff notes: It ain't pretty.

My link

[NorthernVike 2,087]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/us/politics/27congress.html?_r=1&hp

 

 

 

Might I suggest that targeting Medicare is not politically viable?

Wow! Imagine that. People want their handouts. WTF do old people care anyway. They'll be dead when the bill comes due.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Ryan's plan is designed to work out well for America, not the Rep party. I wouldn't expect an Obamabot like you to grasp that concept. LMAO at you being shocked someone would object to their program getting cut. Fact is, any serious debt reduction is gonna have to cut accross the board.

 

I didn't click on the link, did you author mention Obamacare is cutting $500 billion from Medicare? I'm thinking it didn't.

[Voltaire 5,363]

If you ask for big cuts in Medicare, it's a hard pill to swallow but maybe you can educate the voters enough that it's necessary. When you're trying to get those cuts passed but with no cuts to the military and even worse, large irresponsible tax cuts for the wealthy, it becomes a more difficult sell.

 

Then, predictably, the Dems don't have your back at all and are beating you over the head with it... it can get nasty.

[Vikings4ever 567]

No surprise.

 

Once you've got people attached to the government teet, they'll raise hell when you try to ween them.

[MedStudent 56]

Ryan has been having a tussle with rand Paul on his budget proposal as well. I'd take ryan over Paul any day. I don't know if Ryan has the answer on Medicare but both sides need to work this out together. From what someone told me his Medicare plan is basically obamacare for seniors.

[Bert 1,128]

This is what I worried about.

 

The GOP put it's neck on the line by doing the right thing and now they're getting punished for it. The same thing will happen in reverse if tax increases are put on the table.

 

Once again the hypocritical American people fock up the solution.

[Frank M 181]

I've always found it quite funny that this new crop of "fiscally responsible" politicians was ushered into Congress by the Tea Party, a large bloc of which are people of retirement age and thus on Medicare. Now they get pissy when politicians want to cut Medicare. Medicare is one of the governments biggest expenditures. WTF did you expect them to cut?

 

Saying we need to cut spending yet crying foul when it's Medicare just shows that these dolts didn't know what they wanted in the first place.

[Bert 1,128]

I've always found it quite funny that this new crop of "fiscally responsible" politicians was ushered into Congress by the Tea Party, a large bloc of which are people of retirement age and thus on Medicare. Now they get pissy when politicians want to cut Medicare. Medicare is one of the governments biggest expenditures. WTF did you expect them to cut?

 

Saying we need to cut spending yet crying foul when it's Medicare just shows that these dolts didn't know what they wanted in the first place.

 

The democrats and people that voted for Obama did the very same thing. This isn't about parties it is about the hypocrisy and stupidity of the average American voter.

[Phurfur 70]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/us/politics/27congress.html?_r=1&hp

 

 

 

Might I suggest that targeting Medicare is not politically viable?

 

Right! Obama took $500 billion out of medicare to fund Obamacare and no says a word. When the population is too stupid to see what is going on they deserve exactly what they will get.

[Phurfur 70]

I've always found it quite funny that this new crop of "fiscally responsible" politicians was ushered into Congress by the Tea Party, a large bloc of which are people of retirement age and thus on Medicare. Now they get pissy when politicians want to cut Medicare. Medicare is one of the governments biggest expenditures. WTF did you expect them to cut?

 

Saying we need to cut spending yet crying foul when it's Medicare just shows that these dolts didn't know what they wanted in the first place.

 

Please show me the link where the Tea Party is agaist this or are you just making things up again?

[IMMensaMind 462]

Please show me the link where the Tea Party is agaist this or are you just making things up again?

 

Oh, he's making it up again. In fact, the entire thread is fabricated:

 

Gallup Poll shows Seniors support Ryan's plan more than Obama's

 

The ones against Ryan's plan are the younger (18-29) skulls full of propagandized mush.

[shovelheadt 71]

large irresponsible tax cuts for the wealthy, it becomes a more difficult sell.

 

 

This is the problem right here. No matter how many times it comes back to bite this county in the ass, the Republicans continue to be tethered to the same flawed theories.

[Frank M 181]

Please show me the link where the Tea Party is agaist this or are you just making things up again?

 

What am I making up? That a large bloc of the Tea Party is retirees and they don't want their Medicare touched?

 

Here's just a couple of pictures from Tea Party protests. You can tell me then what I'm making up.

 

Don't Touch My Medicare

 

Hands Off My Medicare!

 

Keep You Socialist Hands Off My Medicare!

 

Keep The Guvmint Out Of My Medicare!

 

Keep Govt. Out Of My Medicare

[Greedo 13]

This isn't about parties it is about the hypocrisy and stupidity of the average American voter.

 

Agreed. Medicare needs to be significantly overhauled, and when legislators go to do it, there's whining. The average American voter that didn't see this coming is, as you say, stupid. I've been saying here for years that medicare and social security must be completely revamped in order to fix our fiscal house.

[drobeski 3,061]

If the democratics never ruined social security, we wouldn't be in this mess

[Vikings4ever 567]

If the democratics never ruined social security, we wouldn't be in this mess

Yes, we would.

 

When Social Security was introduced, the average American died 3 years before they were eligible for benefits.

 

Now the average American lives a good 10 years on benefits. The American life expectancy has increased by 30 years over the past century. Social Security and Medicare laws haven't kept up with those advances.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

What am I making up? That a large bloc of the Tea Party is retirees and they don't want their Medicare touched?

 

Here's just a couple of pictures from Tea Party protests. You can tell me then what I'm making up.

 

Don't Touch My Medicare

 

Hands Off My Medicare!

 

Keep You Socialist Hands Off My Medicare!

 

Keep The Guvmint Out Of My Medicare!

 

Keep Govt. Out Of My Medicare

Those signs were protesting Obama stealing $500 billion from Medicare to fund his unconstitutional takeover of the healthcare system.

 

HTH

[drobeski 3,061]

Those signs were protesting Obama stealing $500 billion from Medicare to fund his unconstitutional takeover of the healthcare system.

 

HTH

Why do you hate imagination land ?

[Frank M 181]

Those signs were protesting Obama stealing $500 billion from Medicare to fund his unconstitutional takeover of the healthcare system.

 

HTH

 

That's my point. Republicans took control of the House based on these people who didn't want anyone touching their Medicare without thinking that these same people they put there to make spending cuts would by necessity have to cut Medicare, and now they're pissed.

[MDC 7,590]

That's my point. Republicans took control of the House based on these people who didn't want anyone touching their Medicare without thinking that these same people they put there to make spending cuts would by necessity have to cut Medicare, and now they're pissed.

 

These people were under the delusion that we're in debt because of Obama's program to give a platinum crack pipe to every welfare recipient.

[patweisers44 859]

Yes, we would.

 

When Social Security was introduced, the average American died 3 years before they were eligible for benefits.

 

Now the average American lives a good 10 years on benefits. The American life expectancy has increased by 30 years over the past century. Social Security and Medicare laws haven't kept up with those advances.

The ratio of contributors to collectors was significantly higher when it was introduced as well.

[Bishop82 61]

Those signs were protesting Obama stealing $500 billion from Medicare to fund his unconstitutional takeover of the healthcare system.

 

HTH

 

 

That's my point. Republicans took control of the House based on these people who didn't want anyone touching their Medicare without thinking that these same people they put there to make spending cuts would by necessity have to cut Medicare, and now they're pissed.

 

 

These people were under the delusion that we're in debt because of Obama's program to give a platinum crack pipe to every welfare recipient.

 

 

Wait a minute..................Are you trying to tell me that politicians lie?

 

[rholio 339]

Yes, we would.

 

When Social Security was introduced, the average American died 3 years before they were eligible for benefits.

 

Now the average American lives a good 10 years on benefits. The American life expectancy has increased by 30 years over the past century. Social Security and Medicare laws haven't kept up with those advances.

 

This is the problem, agreed. Raising the retirement age is the biggest fix needed for social security / medicare.

[Phurfur 70]

What am I making up? That a large bloc of the Tea Party is retirees and they don't want their Medicare touched?

 

Here's just a couple of pictures from Tea Party protests. You can tell me then what I'm making up.

 

Don't Touch My Medicare

 

Hands Off My Medicare!

 

Keep You Socialist Hands Off My Medicare!

 

Keep The Guvmint Out Of My Medicare!

 

Keep Govt. Out Of My Medicare

 

I am still waiting, none of these links have anything to do with the Ryan plan, they were protesting Obama stealing $500 billion from medicare to fund Obama care. You may be the most misinformed poster on this board.

[Phurfur 70]

That's my point. Republicans took control of the House based on these people who didn't want anyone touching their Medicare without thinking that these same people they put there to make spending cuts would by necessity have to cut Medicare, and now they're pissed.

 

Do you understand the difference between cutting spending to bring down our debt and cutting spending in one area to spend it in another? I didn't think you did but there is a huge difference.

[Frank M 181]

I am still waiting, none of these links have anything to do with the Ryan plan, they were protesting Obama stealing $500 billion from medicare to fund Obama care. You may be the most misinformed poster on this board.

 

I understand that simple concepts are hard for you to grasp, so I'll type slowly.

 

1-Tea Partiers protest against Obama because they think he's going to take away their Medicare.

 

2-Tea Partiers fuel the wave of new, spendthrift Republicans voted to the House.

 

3- New, spendthrift Republicans that the Tea Partiers sent to Congress to cut spending now want to cut/modify Medicare.

 

4-Tea Partiers say "WTF? Now YOU guys want to mess with my Medicare, too?"

 

5- Frank-M laughs at Tea Partiers who thought they could have their cake and eat it, too, because anyone with a lick of sense knows you can't balance the budget without including Medicare in the equation.

 

 

HTH

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I understand that simple concepts are hard for you to grasp, so I'll type slowly.

 

1-Tea Partiers protest against Obama because they think he's going to take away their Medicare.

 

2-Tea Partiers fuel the wave of new, spendthrift Republicans voted to the House.

 

3- New, spendthrift Republicans that the Tea Partiers sent to Congress to cut spending now want to cut/modify Medicare.

 

4-Tea Partiers say "WTF? Now YOU guys want to mess with my Medicare, too?"

 

5- Frank-M laughs at Tea Partiers who thought they could have their cake and eat it, too, because anyone with a lick of sense knows you can't balance the budget without including Medicare in the equation.

 

 

HTH

 

Still waiting for examples of your claim #4.

[Phurfur 70]

I understand that simple concepts are hard for you to grasp, so I'll type slowly.

 

1-Tea Partiers protest against Obama because they think he's going to take away their Medicare.

 

2-Tea Partiers fuel the wave of new, spendthrift Republicans voted to the House.

 

3- New, spendthrift Republicans that the Tea Partiers sent to Congress to cut spending now want to cut/modify Medicare.

 

4-Tea Partiers say "WTF? Now YOU guys want to mess with my Medicare, too?"

 

5- Frank-M laughs at Tea Partiers who thought they could have their cake and eat it, too, because anyone with a lick of sense knows you can't balance the budget without including Medicare in the equation.

 

 

HTH

 

I am still waiting for your link to the Tea Party protesting Ryan's plan or is this the independant though of the left Nikki is talking about?

 

 

Let me explain this again.

 

1. The Tea Party protested against Obama taking $500 billion dollars out of medicare so he could give the money to someone else.

2. The Tea Party is will to do its part in defict reduction, that is why they are not protesting the Ryan plan.

[Bert 1,128]

5- Frank-M laughs at Tea Partiers who thought they could have their cake and eat it, too, because anyone with a lick of sense knows you can't balance the budget without including Medicare in the equation.

 

 

HTH

 

Do you also laugh at the idiots that voted for Obama thinking there would be change?

[Frank M 181]

Do you also laugh at the idiots that voted for Obama thinking there would be change?

 

Sometimes.

[Voltaire 5,363]

Do you also laugh at the idiots that voted for Obama thinking there would be change?

People get this confused all the time. Change doesn't mean "make better" it just means "different."

[Frank M 181]

I am still waiting for your link to the Tea Party protesting Ryan's plan or is this the independant though of the left Nikki is talking about?

 

 

Let me explain this again.

 

1. The Tea Party protested against Obama taking $500 billion dollars out of medicare so he could give the money to someone else.

2. The Tea Party is will to do its part in defict reduction, that is why they are not protesting the Ryan plan.

 

Keep waiting. I never said the Tea Party is protesting his plan.

 

HTH

[Strike 5,748]

People get this confused all the time. Change doesn't mean "make better" it just means "different."

 

Obama led people to believe he would be changing the culture in Washington and improving the transparency and ethics of government. Are you suggesting that he has done that?

[Frank M 181]

Still waiting for examples of your claim #4.

 

The link in the OP. Plenty of blue hairs riled up over the thought of Medicare being cut.

 

I suppose they could all be Democratic plants, though.

 

[Bert 1,128]

People get this confused all the time. Change doesn't mean "make better" it just means "different."

 

I don't see any change in the massive spending, partisan politics, transparency in government, pandering to big campaign contributors or our troops dying on foreign soil.

[drobeski 3,061]

I don't see any change in the massive spending, partisan politics, transparency in government, pandering to big campaign contributors or our troops dying on foreign soil.

Well he is getting more of them killed in Afghanistan if that counts as change.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Keep waiting. I never said the Tea Party is protesting his plan.

 

HTH

 

Post 29. Numbers 3 and 4. If you weren't referring to the Ryan plan, WTF were you talking about?

 

This should be good.