14 dead at Batman premeire in Colorado

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

So you have knowledge of how he acquired his guns?

 

I have no idea how he acquired his weapons. Nor do I care. The fact is, he did, so the system doesn't work. From what I am hearing, he had an AK, so the system REALLY focking failed.

 

____

 

 

Gun folks, answer me this...

 

I disagree with your position on handguns, but at least it is sane.

 

I will never understand the wack jobs who advocate legal assault weapons and automatics.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

_______________

 

Oh, and this isn't just a gun control problem...

 

How the fock did this assclown get a gas grenade? Surely we can all agree that GAS GRENADES should be focking illegal.

 

_______________

 

ETA: BLS, I know this is a state by state thing, but can you say generally, how much training is required for a carry permit? Would you advocate increasing that level of training, and maybe require yearly repeat training?

[KSB2424 3,083]

I would even be ok with a hald measure... you can carry a gun, but it can only hold 3 bullets. That would help prevent the kind of crap we saw last night.

This is sort of where I agree. I'm all for the right to bear arms to hunt and to protect your family. And if you really wanted to go after the gov't then everybody can grab their shotguns and revolvers.

 

However there is no need for assualt rifles and automatic or some types of semi-automatic guns to be legal. There just isn't. Weapons are already banned. We already have gun control. I can't go buy a military grade rocket launcher and have it in my living room can I? There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

 

SlingShot....20 Guage....Revolver.....Assault Rifle....Automatic gun....Rocket Launcher....Tank.

 

I'm not a complete gun aficionado but to be sure we can draw the line right infront of a revolver or type of handgun/ammo that cannot cause mass destruction.

 

Common sense stuff.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Nope, if he's THAT violently ill, he has absolutely no purpose on thsi earth. Kill the focker.

 

But doesn't it make him a little less morally culpable, such that killing him is perhaps wrong?

 

I mean, let's say for the sake of argument that this guy didn't even have the capacity to understand the results of his actions? In his head this WAS some kind of video game or something where those people he shot weren't even real. Could you really execute someone like that?

 

Lock him up for the rest of his life, for sure, but killing him???

[TD Ryan2 314]

What if it was proven that the guy was severely mentally ill?

is there any question that he WAS NOT severely mentally ill?

 

most horrible crimes are commited by people that are "wrong" in the head.

 

I kinda' lean towards, "fry 'em anyways".

[IGotWorms 3,315]

is there any question that he WAS NOT severely mentally ill?

 

most horrible crimes are commited by people that are "wrong" in the head.

 

I kinda' lean towards, "fry 'em anyways".

 

Who knows. It's possible that he's just a psychopath. While that does qualify as a personality disorder, it's not something you can recover from so most people treat it differently than a treatable mental illness. I think there's justification for treating psychopaths and sociopaths without remorse because, as a practical matter, there's really nothing that can be done about them.

[Strike 3,979]

is there any question that he WAS NOT severely mentally ill?

 

most horrible crimes are commited by people that are "wrong" in the head.

 

I kinda' lean towards, "fry 'em anyways".

 

I think there's definitely a question about this. People seem to think that if someone doesn't think like them or value the same things, like human life, then they must be mentally ill. But I don't believe that to be the case. Some people are just really, really angry. Bill Ayers killed people yet he's now a college professor. Do you think he's mentally ill?

[Strike 3,979]

I have no idea how he acquired his weapons. Nor do I care. The fact is, he did, so the system doesn't work. From what I am hearing, he had an AK, so the system REALLY focking failed.

 

 

And you called me whacky?

 

[Strike 3,979]

Pic of shooter:

 

http://ow.ly/i/MJW0

[TD Ryan2 314]

hey - didja' check out the Cinammon Challenge thread? We outta' give those folks guns too!

[penultimatestraw 473]

Scenario:

 

You're in a movie theater, watching a midnight preview of the new Batman movie. Some crazy focker comes in with a rifle and starts indiscriminantly shooting people.

 

No societal benefit of carrying a gun? Would you rather just be shot? Do you really believe if we outlawed all guns nobody would commit this crime with a gun?

 

I realize I'm not going to convince you of their benefit. My guess is you're scared to death of guns because you've never been around them or don't have much experience with them.

Either way, I disagree with you on the benefit, but respect your opinion.

As stated before, the likelihood of being involved in such a situation is extraordinarily low. Even if you were, you're not guaranteed to be shot, or stop the assailant. By your logic we all should carry uzis, or whatever the most deadly weapon available to protect ourselves.

 

I'm not scared of guns, just don't think they are necessary 99.99% of the time, and I'm willing to take the 0.01% risk when a gun might help.

[BLS 313]

As stated before, the likelihood of being involved in such a situation is extraordinarily low. Even if you were, you're not guaranteed to be shot, or stop the assailant. By your logic we all should carry uzis, or whatever the most deadly weapon available to protect ourselves.

 

I'm not scared of guns, just don't think they are necessary 99.99% of the time, and I'm willing to take the 0.01% risk when a gun might help.

 

 

Agreed on most of your points. And it's your right to not carry a firearm. Just don't infringe on mine.

[Strike 3,979]

Dude didn't have a hunting license or concealed carry permit. Not sure what the "system" could have done to prevent this.

[mobb_deep 917]

This focking focked up planet, with glorified violence everywhere you turn. Turn on a TV and see people shooting guns and violence, but god forbid if anyone tried to show a chicks boob. Sex is taboo! We got crap so focking backwards in this retarded society. It's sick.

 

[Recliner Pilot 61]

To the gun ban crowd: If you were one of those pinned down in that theater last night, would you prefer the gunman be the only person armed, or would you prefer there be 5-10 people who have gone through the training classes required to get a CC license be in the crowd as well?

[NewbieJr 540]

But doesn't it make him a little less morally culpable, such that killing him is perhaps wrong?

 

I mean, let's say for the sake of argument that this guy didn't even have the capacity to understand the results of his actions? In his head this WAS some kind of video game or something where those people he shot weren't even real. Could you really execute someone like that?

 

Lock him up for the rest of his life, for sure, but killing him???

I have no compassion for anything that doesn't have any coimpassion for others. No one can plan all that stuff- crowded theater, gas explosion, ect, without having some intelligence. It could be argued that anyone who could kill a bunch of innocent people is mentally disturbed. I'd rather he's just wiped off this earth. The same as if an out of control pit bull attacked and killed a bunch of people.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

To the gun ban crowd: If you were one of those pinned down in that theater last night, would you prefer the gunman be the only person armed, or would you prefer there be 5-10 people who have gone through the training classes required to get a CC license be in the crowd as well?

 

So let's see...

 

I'm in a room that is darker than a welldiggers asswhole. I'm told this guy waited until shooting in the movie started, so at first, I probably think its movie gunfire. Of course, I'm choking on teargas too.

 

So I am supposed to pull my trusty piece, figure out what direction the shots are coming from (he was moving supposedly) and fire an accruate shot to kill the guy?

 

Not very focking likely.

[BLS 313]

I have no idea how he acquired his weapons. Nor do I care. The fact is, he did, so the system doesn't work. From what I am hearing, he had an AK, so the system REALLY focking failed.

 

____

 

 

Gun folks, answer me this...

 

I disagree with your position on handguns, but at least it is sane.

 

I will never understand the wack jobs who advocate legal assault weapons and automatics.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

_______________

 

Oh, and this isn't just a gun control problem...

 

How the fock did this assclown get a gas grenade? Surely we can all agree that GAS GRENADES should be focking illegal.

 

_______________

 

ETA: BLS, I know this is a state by state thing, but can you say generally, how much training is required for a carry permit? Would you advocate increasing that level of training, and maybe require yearly repeat training?

 

First off, Automatics (as in full auto) are VERY difficult and extremely expensive to acquire. I personally do not know ANYONE who owns one, and I know MANY gun owners.

 

Assault rifles....I can see your argument, and you won't like my rebuttal, but the reality is that guns are the only guaranteed way to keep a government from running tryannical on it's people.

Not that I believe it would happen if we removed all firearms, but you gotta admit they are getting pretty frisky with some of the crap they do already, AND we are still an armed populous.

 

We'll save that argument for another time.

 

I don't know how he got a gas grenade. They are considered a DD, or Destructive Device and by law are illegal. So there's more proof right there than gun control laws simply cannot work.

 

Generally, training varies wildly. For example, in MN you are required to take a training course, that covers safe firearm handling, use and troubleshooting malfunctions. It must also cover the laws of carry, application process and requirements to display a permit to LEO. It also must cover the legal use of force, including use of deadly force, and cover the 4 criteria that dictates that use of force. And finally the applicant must participate in a live fire exercise, which is supervised by an instructor. This must be renewed every 5 years.

 

In WI: Hunter safety training is good enough. no live fire, no laws or legal aspects of carry or use of deadly force. Permit is good for 5 years. Florida is 7, but most are 5 years.

 

In Arizona, you don't even need a permit. You can just carry a gun if you're not a felon.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

So let's see...

 

I'm in a room that is darker than a welldiggers asswhole. I'm told this guy waited until shooting in the movie started, so at first, I probably think its movie gunfire. Of course, I'm choking on teargas too.

 

So I am supposed to pull my trusty piece, figure out what direction the shots are coming from (he was moving supposedly) and fire an accruate shot to kill the guy?

 

Not very focking likely.

 

I'm talking about people who have been trained, which is a requirement for CC....at least here in Texas.

 

You would just p!ss your pants.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

The news is saying his apartment is booby trapped with "sophisticated explosives".

 

Good thing those are banned here in the USA.

[NewbieJr 540]

 

 

Assault rifles....I can see your argument, and you won't like my rebuttal, but the reality is that guns are the only guaranteed way to keep a government from running tryannical on it's people.

Not that I believe it would happen if we removed all firearms, but you gotta admit they are getting pretty frisky with some of the crap they do already, AND we are still an armed populous.

 

 

Oh for the love of God

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

First off, Automatics (as in full auto) are VERY difficult and extremely expensive to acquire. I personally do not know ANYONE who owns one, and I know MANY gun owners.

Assault rifles....I can see your argument, and you won't like my rebuttal, but the reality is that guns are the only guaranteed way to keep a government from running tryannical on it's people.

Not that I believe it would happen if we removed all firearms, but you gotta admit they are getting pretty frisky with some of the crap they do already, AND we are still an armed populous.

 

We'll save that argument for another time.

 

I don't know how he got a gas grenade. They are considered a DD, or Destructive Device and by law are illegal. So there's more proof right there than gun control laws simply cannot work.

 

Generally, training varies wildly. For example, in MN you are required to take a training course, that covers safe firearm handling, use and troubleshooting malfunctions. It must also cover the laws of carry, application process and requirements to display a permit to LEO. It also must cover the legal use of force, including use of deadly force, and cover the 4 criteria that dictates that use of force. And finally the applicant must participate in a live fire exercise, which is supervised by an instructor. This must be renewed every 5 years.

 

In WI: Hunter safety training is good enough. no live fire, no laws or legal aspects of carry or use of deadly force. Permit is good for 5 years. Florida is 7, but most are 5 years.

 

In Arizona, you don't even need a permit. You can just carry a gun if you're not a felon.

 

Seems like the red statement is an example of a case where gun control IS working.

 

___

 

I have a friend with a conceal carry permit. They lived in Alabama at the time, and supposedly, getting one in Bama was a PITA. So instead, he got one from some place like New Hampshire by mail, and it had reciprocity with Alabama.

 

That kind of crap needs to be closed.

 

I'm talking about people who have been trained, which is a requirement for CC....at least here in Texas.

 

You would just p!ss your pants.

 

I don't give a fock how trained you are. If you are in a dark, crowded room with teargas, you and your gun are just as focked as me without one. Unless you want to start spraying randomly in the general direction of the shooter. You might hit him, or you might help him kill a few.

[BLS 313]

So let's see...

 

I'm in a room that is darker than a welldiggers asswhole. I'm told this guy waited until shooting in the movie started, so at first, I probably think its movie gunfire. Of course, I'm choking on teargas too.

 

So I am supposed to pull my trusty piece, figure out what direction the shots are coming from (he was moving supposedly) and fire an accruate shot to kill the guy?

 

Not very focking likely.

 

 

Honestly, if that happened and I was carrying, I would probably put my face on the deck ASAP. I would wait for the runners (IE targets to the bad guy) to get away from me and if possible I would take a shot only if I knew it wouldn't hit anyone else. And I would put him down.

 

Now, I heard just now on CNN that he had a bullet resistant vest. Which would mean my first two shots to his midsection would be ineffective. Scary, right?

 

My training has taught me that if you cannot shoot someone in the chest, a head shot is a BAD idea overall. Small, usually moving target and suprisingly difficult to penetrate with smaller caliber guns (such as a .38, 9mm, etc.) However, I also know from training that if you shoot a person in the pelvic bone, they will drop like a sack of bricks, because they cannot put weight on their legs. 2 shots to the lower abdomen (below the vest protection area) would incapacitate that person ASAP.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

To the gun ban crowd: If you were one of those pinned down in that theater last night, would you prefer the gunman be the only person armed, or would you prefer there be 5-10 people who have gone through the training classes required to get a CC license be in the crowd as well?

Let me ask this another way:

 

If you were pinned down in that theater last night which would you most likely hope to be able to say to yourself:

 

"Dayum, I'm glad I have a gun on me"

 

or

 

"Dayum, I'm glad I don't have a gun on me".

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Let me ask this another way:

 

If you were pinned down in that theater last night which would you most likely hope to be able to say to yourself:

 

"Dayum, I'm glad I have a gun on me"

 

or

 

"Dayum, I'm glad I don't have a gun on me".

 

I'd be thinking "Dayum, I wish this focker didn't have a focking gun on him."

[BLS 313]

Oh for the love of God

 

 

Read a history book, gym rat.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Honestly, if that happened and I was carrying, I would probably put my face on the deck ASAP. I would wait for the runners (IE targets to the bad guy) to get away from me and if possible I would take a shot only if I knew it wouldn't hit anyone else. And I would put him down.

 

Now, I heard just now on CNN that he had a bullet resistant vest. Which would mean my first two shots to his midsection would be ineffective. Scary, right?

 

My training has taught me that if you cannot shoot someone in the chest, a head shot is a BAD idea overall. Small, usually moving target and suprisingly difficult to penetrate with smaller caliber guns (such as a .38, 9mm, etc.) However, I also know from training that if you shoot a person in the pelvic bone, they will drop like a sack of bricks, because they cannot put weight on their legs. 2 shots to the lower abdomen (below the vest protection area) would incapacitate that person ASAP.

 

You think you could tell he has a vest, and then put two in his crotch while chocking on teargas in the dark before he kills you?

 

 

Also, I understand that this case is an extremely focked up oulier, and should not be the basis of the entire gun control argument.

 

______

 

Also... how did nobody notice a dude in mid July in a bulletproof vest with a focking grenade and assault rifle.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Agreed on most of your points. And it's your right to not carry a firearm. Just don't infringe on mine.

We've got no problem then.

[BLS 313]

Seems like the red statement is an example of a case where gun control IS working.

 

 

 

For law abiding folks it is. Illegal fully automatic weapons are EVERYWHERE.

I could go get an illegal full auto AK within a weekend.

 

There are over 80 million AK47's throughout the world (Full Auto AK's).

 

Do you think there is not a black market here in the US for them?

[IGotWorms 3,315]

I'm talking about people who have been trained, which is a requirement for CC....at least here in Texas.

 

You would just p!ss your pants.

 

Go away; this is an adult discussion.

[Vikings4ever 496]

That's some Final Destination shiit

 

An aspiring sports journalist and 'Dark Knight Rises' fan, Jessica Ghawi was among 12 people killed in the mass shooting Thursday night at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. The native Texan had written movingly about witnessing an earlier mass shooting incident in Toronto.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I'd be thinking "Dayum, I wish this focker didn't have a focking gun on him."

Not one of the options.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Go away; this is an adult discussion.

It's a legit question, Matlock.

 

fukk off.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Read a history book, gym rat.

 

1. The record of armed insurrection throughout history is pretty dismal, even in ancient days when the arms were similar. Yes, we did it in the 18th century, but we also had a lot of help from France, and our weapons and the British were pretty much the same thing. In fact, you could argue that ours (rifles) were better than the British (smoothbore muskets).

 

2. We don't live in that world anymore. The government has automatic weapons, body armour, tanks, airplanes, 14 kinds of gas, napalm, etc. Let's not even consider things like tactical nukes or biological weapons.

 

ANyone who tries to rise against the government now is just begging to die. Your only hope is that the soldiers would come over to the revolution.

 

And that's only until they develop the cyborg army. They already have the drones.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

It's a legit question, Matlock.

 

fukk off.

 

Take your troll schtick somewhere else. So far this has been a very civil discussion, in keeping with the severity of what has happened today. Then you come in here and immediately start throwing insults around. Take it to a different thread.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

For law abiding folks it is. Illegal fully automatic weapons are EVERYWHERE.

I could go get an illegal full auto AK within a weekend.

 

There are over 80 million AK47's throughout the world (Full Auto AK's).

 

Do you think there is not a black market here in the US for them?

 

You just said, and I quote, that they are "extremely difficult and expensive to acquire."

 

Now, could it be done? Sure. Could it be done easily by some pissed off teenager or wacko? No.

[BLS 313]

You think you could tell he has a vest, and then put two in his crotch while chocking on teargas in the dark before he kills you?

 

 

Also, I understand that this case is an extremely focked up oulier, and should not be the basis of the entire gun control argument.

 

______

 

Also... how did nobody notice a dude in mid July in a bulletproof vest with a focking grenade and assault rifle.

 

 

Yes, the carrier plates in bullet resistant vests are normally VERY thick.

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/usmc_plate_carrier.jpg

 

And while in the dark, it might be impossible to tell, I would figure out quickly after firing two rounds into his chest and him not going down that I've gotta do something different.

 

Yes, with tear gas, etc floating around, it would be VERY difficult to defend yourself. Dark, loud, confusing, shocked, unable to breathe or see very well. Very dificult circumstances.

 

But I also agree this is not your "normal' shooting situation. This whole thing is focked up.

 

Now, honestly, can I say I wouldn't be shittin myself? No...I probably would be scared out of my mind.

But I don't know because I've never been put in that situation. However I'd LIKE ot think if I saw someone murdering people I would have the spine to confront that person.

 

I hope I never have to find out.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Take your troll schtick somewhere else. So far this has been a very civil discussion, in keeping with the severity of what has happened today. Then you come in here and immediately start throwing insults around. Take it to a different thread.

If you don't want to answer the question I posed related to the incident, that's fine. Ignore it, and me.

 

In other words. Fukk off.

 

This is my last response to you on this.

[Strike 3,979]

Also... how did nobody notice a dude in mid July in a bulletproof vest with a focking grenade and assault rifle.

 

It was a midnight showing and he came in through an emergency exit. Probably wasn't seen.

[BLS 313]

1. The record of armed insurrection throughout history is pretty dismal, even in ancient days when the arms were similar. Yes, we did it in the 18th century, but we also had a lot of help from France, and our weapons and the British were pretty much the same thing. In fact, you could argue that ours (rifles) were better than the British (smoothbore muskets).

 

2. We don't live in that world anymore. The government has automatic weapons, body armour, tanks, airplanes, 14 kinds of gas, napalm, etc. Let's not even consider things like tactical nukes or biological weapons.

 

ANyone who tries to rise against the government now is just begging to die. Your only hope is that the soldiers would come over to the revolution.

 

And that's only until they develop the cyborg army. They already have the drones.

 

 

Like I said, let's save that for another thread.

[BLS 313]

You just said, and I quote, that they are "extremely difficult and expensive to acquire."

 

Now, could it be done? Sure. Could it be done easily by some pissed off teenager or wacko? No.

 

 

LEGALLY!!!!