14 dead at Batman premeire in Colorado

[Strike 3,979]

The part that bothers me is what drives someone to do this? Just senseless killing. No hate, no motive, no target, just massacre.

 

Makes me wonder what the hell is going on in this dudes mind.

 

 

I don't want this to turn into a gun control debate, but I realize it probably will.

 

Stuff like this is why I try to convince my students to carry all the time. You just never know where you'll be when some whackjob decides to start shooting the place up.

 

Yeah, I just don't get it either. And again not to turn this into a political thing but if there's ever a case for the death penalty it seems this should be it. This guy killed a bunch of people he didn't even know. He needs to be put down like a wild animal that doesn't fear humans, something we do every day.

[penultimatestraw 473]

The part that bothers me is what drives someone to do this? Just senseless killing. No hate, no motive, no target, just massacre.

 

Makes me wonder what the hell is going on in this dudes mind.

 

 

I don't want this to turn into a gun control debate, but I realize it probably will.

 

Stuff like this is why I try to convince my students to carry all the time. You just never know where you'll be when some whackjob decides to start shooting the place up.

I don't think gun control would impact this situation one iota. But you have to ask yourself, does the likelihood of being the victim of such a scenario (or any violent crime for that matter) justify the risk of carrying a gun all the time? For me, the answer is no, but I don't live in Denver. Also as others have said, having a gun on you probably wouldn't have impacted the outcome in this case.

[TD Ryan2 314]

Stuff like this is why I try to convince my students to carry all the time. You just never know where you'll be when some whackjob decides to start shooting the place up.

are the odds of seeing a massacre like this better or worse than the odds of winning millions is the lottery?

 

BLS - I'm not for or against the guns here - it just seems to me that so many gun advocates are waiting (hoping?) for that one in a million scenario to unfold in front of them and be prepared to act heroically.

 

Maybe the best answer I've heard for owning/carrying came from a woman who said, "it gives me peace of mind - I don't know what would happen if I needed the firearm, but I feel better and sleep better knowing it's there just in case." Maybe worth noting that this women was battered and had a violent ex out there.

[parrot 789]

I don't think gun control would impact this situation one iota. But you have to ask yourself, does the likelihood of being the victim of such a scenario (or any violent crime for that matter) justify the risk of carrying a gun all the time? For me, the answer is no, but I don't live in Denver. Also as others have said, having a gun on you probably wouldn't have impacted the outcome in this case.

 

What is the risk of carrying a gun all the time?

[NewbieJr 540]

Yeah, I just don't get it either. And again not to turn this into a political thing but if there's ever a case for the death penalty it seems this should be it. This guy killed a bunch of people he didn't even know. He needs to be put down like a wild animal that doesn't fear humans, something we do every day.

100% in agreement. And it should be such a cut and dry case that he should be fried and buried before the end of the month.

[edjr 5,567]

i'd love to see someone be against the death penalty in this case.

 

No doubt who did it. No doubt he's guilty. What more do you need?

[parrot 789]

 

Maybe the best answer I've heard for owning/carrying came from a woman who said, "it gives me peace of mind - I don't know what would happen if I needed the firearm, but I feel better and sleep better knowing it's there just in case." Maybe worth noting that this women was battered and had a violent ex out there.

 

Captain Woodrow Call: "It's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

[Recliner Pilot 61]

One of my friends is an environmental engineer with a CCL. He was in Marshall last week looking at a site that may have some toxic stuff to be cleaned up. It was in a nasty part of town. Two black dudes came walking toward him down the RR tracks adjacent to where he was. He was alone, and when they got close they split up to get on either side of him.

 

He pulled his gun and told them "I have nothing you guys want". They turned and left. He dialed 911 and the cops sent someone to stay with him until he finished his testing. Cop told him there was no way a white guy should be in that area, much less by himself.

 

At the very least he would have been mugged.

[GobbleDog 816]

i'd love to see someone be against the death penalty in this case.

 

No doubt who did it. No doubt he's guilty. What more do you need?

That would be me. Even when guilt is certain, I still think the cons outweigh the pros.

[Strike 3,979]

are the odds of seeing a massacre like this better or worse than the odds of winning millions is the lottery?

 

BLS - I'm not for or against the guns here - it just seems to me that so many gun advocates are waiting (hoping?) for that one in a million scenario to unfold in front of them and be prepared to act heroically.

 

Maybe the best answer I've heard for owning/carrying came from a woman who said, "it gives me peace of mind - I don't know what would happen if I needed the firearm, but I feel better and sleep better knowing it's there just in case." Maybe worth noting that this women was battered and had a violent ex out there.

 

For any ONE individual the odds are poor. If a larger percentage of our population was trained and armed the odds for one out of that pool of people encountering a situation where a firearm might help would be much more significant.

[NewbieJr 540]

That would be me. Even when guilt is certain, I still think the cons outweigh the pros.

And what on God's earth are the cons here??

[edjr 5,567]

That would be me. Even when guilt is certain, I still think the cons outweigh the pros.

 

[FeelingMN 273]

The part that bothers me is what drives someone to do this? Just senseless killing. No hate, no motive, no target, just massacre.

 

Makes me wonder what the hell is going on in this dudes mind.

 

 

I don't want this to turn into a gun control debate, but I realize it probably will.

 

Stuff like this is why I try to convince my students to carry all the time. You just never know where you'll be when some whackjob decides to start shooting the place up.

 

 

This conversation should be about how someone got so focked in the head that he gunned down innocent people.....and no one in this guy's life did anything about it. Look at Jared Loughner. Dude was a wreck, and while no one had any idea of what he was planning on doing, seemed like a lot of people knew something was wrong with him and didn't really help him.

 

I bet there's that same dynamic here. Dude was disturbed, and instead of someone really trying to connect with the guy....to help him out, he just got shuffled from one person to the next. That's not to assign blame to anyone in particular other than Holmes, but rather to say that there was a breakdown in community moreso than lax gun laws.

[TD Ryan2 314]

What is the risk of carrying a gun all the time?

I'll take a crack at that parrot -

in one way, it's like driving a car - it is inherintly dangerous - even moreso with a gun, a machine whose sole purpose is to shoot stuff - it is a weapon.

But I undersatnd that you don't want to live in a controlled bubble - plugging in your toaster is also dangerous. So as usual, the question is, where's the line in that gray area.

 

Admittedly, I do lean towards controlling guns more - but I did see this recently:

 

Was on vacation in a very rural area - needed some nice cigars and the ONLY place that sold cigars had this sign:

Guns

Ammo

Knives

Cigars

 

funny "store" to go into. What was most interesting to me was watching the cars/drivers come and go out this tiny, narrow, one-car driveway - nobody honked, swore, yelled, middle-fingered - EVERYONE was extra polite and deferential - and it was obvious that nobody wanted to escalate anything in that parking lot b/c you just didn't know what weaponry was probably in that other car.

[GobbleDog 816]

If a larger percentage of our population was trained and armed...

In theory, that might reduce the number of massacres.

 

In reality, most Americans will never walk the streets armed no matter what the law allows.

[southcarolina 166]

i'd love to see someone be against the death penalty in this case.

 

No doubt who did it. No doubt he's guilty. What more do you need?

 

Too bad it isnt possible to kill him 14 times.

[penultimatestraw 473]

What is the risk of carrying a gun all the time?

Accidental firing by owner/someone else, child finding it, escalating a potentially violent confrontation I know all of those are pretty unlikely, but risk > benefit IMO. I saw a stat that the likelihood of of being the victim of a homicide is ~ 1:100000, and I'm sure that is skewed towards urban residents/lower socioeconomic strata.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

What is the risk of carrying a gun all the time?

 

In me carrying all the time? Not much risk. I guess the small risk of accidental discharge.

 

The devil is in the fact that the OTHER guy is carrying.

 

Think of how many pissing contest and near barfights you've been involved in in your life. Now add two guns to the equation.

 

It is just stupid to think that an armed populace is safer. An armed populace merely shoots each other instead of punches each other. An armes populace misses and hits someone else. And armed populace gives psychos like the guy last night access to high-efficency killing machines.

 

The simple fact... you don't see this kind of sh!t happening in other countries all the time like it does here. Is it because the populace is armed in those countries? No. Quite the opposite.

[Strike 3,979]

In theory, that might reduce the number of massacres.

 

In reality, most Americans will never walk the streets armed no matter what the law allows.

 

I really don't know if it would or wouldn't reduce the number of massacres. But I think it's every person's right, unless they've shown themselves not worthy, to be equipped to defend themselves if they so choose.

[penultimatestraw 473]

And what on God's earth are the cons here??

The idea of condemning violence by perpetrating it, for one.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

 

It is just stupid to think that an armed populace is safer. An armed populace merely shoots each other instead of punches each other.

 

This scare tactic was used during the debate to pass CC in Texas. It has not happened, and crime has gone down.......just like every other place that has passed CC.

 

Facts are not on your side.

[TD Ryan2 314]

In me carrying all the time? Not much risk. I guess the small risk of accidental discharge.

 

The devil is in the fact that the OTHER guy is carrying.

 

Think of how many pissing contest and near barfights you've been involved in in your life. Now add two guns to the equation.

 

It is just stupid to think that an armed populace is safer. An armed populace merely shoots each other instead of punches each other. An armes populace misses and hits someone else. And armed populace gives psychos like the guy last night access to high-efficency killing machines.

 

The simple fact... you don't see this kind of sh!t happening in other countries all the time like it does here. Is it because the populace is armed in those countries? No. Quite the opposite.

 

I agree with this TTBOM.

I my rural store story above, all it would have taken is ONE ass hole, drunk, etc to stir up a hornets nest of bullets and gore.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

In theory, that might reduce the number of massacres.

 

In reality, most Americans will never walk the streets armed no matter what the law allows.

 

And if they did, and happened to be in a situation where a gun was necessary, they'd be too busy p!ssing themselves or in shock to respond in time. See, this ain't Dodge City, where the bad guy challenges you to a fair gunfight in the town square. In the real world, you'll get a second or so to draw and fire.

[GobbleDog 816]

And what on God's earth are the cons here??

Not another debate...

 

Costs more to execute.

More families victimized.

State sanctioned killing.

Ethical issues.

Rarely 100% certain of guilt.

Easier punishment for some.

etc.

 

IMO the death penalty pros only outweigh the cons when National Security is at risk, such as rare cases involving spies or terrorists. Other than that... no.

[BLS 313]

Accidental firing by owner/someone else, child finding it, escalating a potentially violent confrontation I know all of those are pretty unlikely, but risk > benefit IMO. I saw a stat that the likelihood of of being the victim of a homicide is ~ 1:100000, and I'm sure that is skewed towards urban residents/lower socioeconomic strata.

 

 

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/575852_360623554010706_51701518_n.jpg

 

 

 

I can understand your concern, and they ARE valid. Proper safety measures and training are STRONGLY recommended.

For instance, you guys all heard about the 71 yo guy in Florida who shot at 2 robbers this week right?

 

He won't be charged, but good god, everytime I watch that video I CRINGE. Watch this video of him shooting and watch the lady who's CLEARLY in danger of being hit by the 'good guy' at :28.

 

Did he do the right thing? Absolutely. But he almost got himself a manslaughter charge by almost shooting the dumb woman who wouldn't get out of his way.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm9o3vhKoF8

[TD Ryan2 314]

The idea of condemning violence by perpetrating it, for one.

I'm for the death penalty but I do see the merits of this -

 

take parenting for example:

Johnny stop hitting your sister!

WACK

Don't Hit Your Sister again or you'll get another one!

[parrot 789]

I'll take a crack at that parrot -

in one way, it's like driving a car - it is inherintly dangerous - even moreso with a gun, a machine whose sole purpose is to shoot stuff - it is a weapon.

But I undersatnd that you don't want to live in a controlled bubble - plugging in your toaster is also dangerous. So as usual, the question is, where's the line in that gray area.

 

I know guns freak some people out, but there is very little danger to carrying a quality pistol in a proper rig, provided the proper safety techniques are employed. Police officers do it every day and accidents are exceedingly rare. The problem is that too many people wouldn't satisfy all three of those criteria.

[NewbieJr 540]

Not another debate...

 

Costs more to execute.

More families victimized.

State sanctioned killing.

Ethical issues.

Rarely 100% certain of guilt.

Easier punishment for some.

etc.

 

IMO the death penalty pros only outweigh the cons when National Security is at risk, such as rare cases involving spies or terrorists. Other than that... no.

In ths particular case, there is 100% certainty. ANd if it was a cut and dry case and they injected or electrocuted this asswhole quickly, there is no possible way it would be more expensive than housing and feeding him the rest of his life.

[BLS 313]

In ths particular case, there is 100% certainty. ANd if it was a cut and dry case and they injected or electrocuted this asswhole quickly, there is no possible way it would be more expensive than housing and feeding him the rest of his life.

 

 

I'd like to agree with you, because I'd love to see him hanging from a rope in the city square.

However, the legal appeals, etc., make it CONSIDERABLY more cost-prohibitive. Not that I agree it should be more expensive, but it is.

 

I'm all for reforming those laws though. 10 witnesses or more (arbitrary) or video proof, you hang. Cut and dry.

[edjr 5,567]

Too bad it isnt possible to kill him 14 times.

 

have you seen Se7en?

[TD Ryan2 314]

The problem is that too many people wouldn't satisfy all three of those criteria.

this is why I agree with TTBOM - you, me, TTBOM carrying a gun is safe. We'd take the courses - follow the rules - respect the firearm.

 

But all the lunatics and dumasses our there? And that's really the breakdown - some are just too stupid to be safe/responsible (think the Jack ass crowd) - and some are just too mentally unstable (think the anger management and fatal attraction crowd).

 

Off the top of my head I can think of 3 friends and 3 ex girlfriends that should NEVER be armed. NEVER! "Everybody should carry" is a false, utopian view of what the reality of it would be.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I know guns freak some people out, but there is very little danger to carrying a quality pistol in a proper rig, provided the proper safety techniques are employed. Police officers do it every day and accidents are exceedingly rare. The problem is that too many people wouldn't satisfy all three of those criteria.

 

Of course not. People are stupid d!psh!ts. They can barely handle a car, and you wanna have them all carrying a focking death spraying machine?

 

This of course doesn't take into account the fact that most people, like north of 80% most, would be useless in a sudden gunfight. They don't have the temperment, nerves, balls, whatever to respond properly. Hell, what would probably happen in most cases if we were all armed is the bad guy would shoot, then half the people would freeze, the other half would draw, 10% of those would hit the bad guy, and the rest would randomly spray bullets around, hitting random pepole in the process.

[parrot 789]

In me carrying all the time? Not much risk. I guess the small risk of accidental discharge.

 

The devil is in the fact that the OTHER guy is carrying.

 

Think of how many pissing contest and near barfights you've been involved in in your life. Now add two guns to the equation.

 

It is just stupid to think that an armed populace is safer. An armed populace merely shoots each other instead of punches each other. An armes populace misses and hits someone else. And armed populace gives psychos like the guy last night access to high-efficency killing machines.

 

The simple fact... you don't see this kind of sh!t happening in other countries all the time like it does here. Is it because the populace is armed in those countries? No. Quite the opposite.

 

You're conflating a multitude of different issues here to address my question about carrying. The act of simply carrying is not terribly dangerous if done responsibly.

[BLS 313]

Of course not. People are stupid d!psh!ts. They can barely handle a car, and you wanna have them all carrying a focking death spraying machine?

 

This of course doesn't take into account the fact that most people, like north of 80% most, would be useless in a sudden gunfight. They don't have the temperment, nerves, balls, whatever to respond properly. Hell, what would probably happen in most cases if we were all armed is the bad guy would shoot, then half the people would freeze, the other half would draw, 10% of those would hit the bad guy, and the rest would randomly spray bullets around, hitting random pepole in the process.

 

 

I'm sorry man, but that's just nonsensical, fear-mongering, rhetoric.

[parrot 789]

Of course not. People are stupid d!psh!ts. They can barely handle a car, and you wanna have them all carrying a focking death spraying machine?

 

This of course doesn't take into account the fact that most people, like north of 80% most, would be useless in a sudden gunfight. They don't have the temperment, nerves, balls, whatever to respond properly. Hell, what would probably happen in most cases if we were all armed is the bad guy would shoot, then half the people would freeze, the other half would draw, 10% of those would hit the bad guy, and the rest would randomly spray bullets around, hitting random pepole in the process.

 

Yeah, I said I want everyone to carry a gun.

[TD Ryan2 314]

if done responsibly.

you MUST always put that caveat in there and it is a falsely Utopian view to accept that it will always be done responsibly.

[cyclone24 1,814]

Lets see....if im in a room with 1000 knives...the odds i get cut with a knife are pretty good. If you remove the knives....my odds of getting cut go down significantly.......odd how that works when you dont have them around.

[GobbleDog 816]

In ths particular case, there is 100% certainty. ANd if it was a cut and dry case and they injected or electrocuted this asswhole quickly, there is no possible way it would be more expensive than housing and feeding him the rest of his life.

You're right, eliminating appeals would make is cheaper. Unfortunately, it would also increase the number of innocent executions. You can't pick and chose which cases you think are 100% certain of guilt. And we don't execute insane people in this country. It costs time and money determining if someone is insane or not.

 

I ain't arguing this POS doesn't deserve to die (insane or not), but as a society it's not the right thing to do.

[parrot 789]

this is why I agree with TTBOM - you, me, TTBOM carrying a gun is safe. We'd take the courses - follow the rules - respect the firearm.

 

But all the lunatics and dumasses our there? And that's really the breakdown - some are just too stupid to be safe/responsible (think the Jack ass crowd) - and some are just too mentally unstable (think the anger management and fatal attraction crowd).

 

Off the top of my head I can think of 3 friends and 3 ex girlfriends that should NEVER be armed. NEVER! "Everybody should carry" is a false, utopian view of what the reality of it would be.

 

I don't think any of us wants every dumbass on the street carrying a gun. I am for fairly stingent requirements, but if those requirements are met, and proper protocol followed, I don't have any problem seeing a few more guns around.

[Strike 3,979]

you MUST always put that caveat in there and it is a falsely Utopian view to accept that it will always be done responsibly.

 

It's already legal to carry in most places in the U.S.. We have pretty few incidents from people who carry. So it does seem to work. Most people aren't batsh*t crazy and know that if they use their gun irresponsibly the consequences will be significant, as they should be. Most people who carry take that responsibility very seriously. I don't think the evidence supports your assertion.