Ever have to fire someone?

[MDC 5,895]

I have 3 direct reports and the one in NY is pretty close. I've been at my new job for about a year. 2 months into my tenure the person who hired me gave her notice and a few monts after that I was promoted to regional manager. At that point I already didn't like "George," the guy responsible for our NY office.

 

George does mediocre work and the people George works for have a low leel of confidence in him. He works on flex time and doesn't maintain the right hours, showing up 15-30 minutes late a few days per week and taking every other Friday off anyway. His work is subpar, full of typos and not responsive. He doesn't seem to get that the primary responsibility of the job is the thing he does very poorly. In the past he had a very bad attitude, getting defensive / argumentative when corrected until I essentially told him "You won't be here another 6 months if this persists."

 

Since then he's been more professional but just isn't that talented and I think we would replace him fairly easily with someone who has a better skill set and needs less maintenance and supervision. Mostly I think the things we need him to do well aren't his talents or things he's interested in.

 

Today my boss gave me the go ahead to fire him. My only reservation is this guy has 2 kids with another on the way in May and I'd rather not go that route but truthfully, he's just not that good. I have a report in Washington who's 23 Tara old and does equivalent work with no hand holding or drama and he's coach able.

 

This guy is 39 with years of experience and his work is garbage.

 

Sh1t can him? Yes we are secretaries and I'm talking about his coffee making and blowjob skills of course.

[jerryskids 5,207]

That's rough with his kid situation. Is there a job in the company that better fits his skill set?

[KSB2424 3,083]

That's rough with his kid situation. Is there a job in the company that better fits his skill set?

 

Yeah, seems to me since he hasn't done anything really "out of line" except being just a sub par employee you could either a. coach'em up or b. find another position better suited.

 

Sounds to me he lacks motivation and is complacent.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Sounds like sub par management to me.

[jerryskids 5,207]

 

Yeah, seems to me since he hasn't done anything really "out of line" except being just a sub par employee you could either a. coach'em up or b. find another position better suited.

 

Sounds to me he lacks motivation and is complacent.

Well, they promoted MDC over him. I'd probably eat a bullet.

[MDC 5,895]

Sounds like sub par management to me.

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RMFF!

[MDC 5,895]

Well, they promoted MDC over him. I'd probably eat a bullet.

The worst part is he was there for 3 years. I came in and 6 months later they made me his boss.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Face it, yer in over your head, Kid.

[MDC 5,895]

Face it, yer in over your head, Kid.

TILT!

[shotsup 832]

I didn't read all of that. Does he know he isn't doing a up to par level ? Can't you give him a warning or note to file and if he doesn't shape up it will be his outright fault.

[jerryskids 5,207]

The worst part is he was there for 3 years. I came in and 6 months later they made me his boss.

Seriously, that is likely an issue with his motivation. What are his personal career goals?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Just tell him to pay more attention to the timer on the fryer. Problem solved.

[MDC 5,895]

I didn't read all of that. Does he know he isn't doing a up to par level ? Can't you give him a warning or note to file and if he doesn't shape up it will be his outright fault.

Yeah, I gave him a pretty detailed warning back in November and probably should've done a formal review / performance improvement then, but that is a step from termination and I wasn't sure I want to go that route. Now he's somewhat improved but is still overpaid as lazy, and I can't tell him to have a better work ethic or be more talented.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

Personally I would not fire him if he's just OK. Sure you would rather have a star in his position but do you really want to ruin this dude's life over it?

 

One option could be to suggest to him that he may want to start looking elsewhere. Give him plenty of time to line something else up, if he doesn't then that's more on him.

 

Problem with that strategy is maybe he goes to your bosses or gets a lawyer or something like that to foul things up. So consider that side of it.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

Just tell him to pay more attention to the timer on the fryer. Problem solved.

Hilarious, nobody saw that joke coming

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Hilarious, nobody saw that joke coming

I'm sure it caught you off guard, Dumbass.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Cut bait. You have given him a chance to improve and he has not lived up to expectations. Look to upgrade with someone who has more drive and alignment with your goals.

[FlaHawker 24]

I have 3 direct reports and the one in NY is pretty close. I've been at my new job for about a year. 2 months into my tenure the person who hired me gave her notice and a few monts after that I was promoted to regional manager. At that point I already didn't like "George," the guy responsible for our NY office.

 

George does mediocre work and the people George works for have a low leel of confidence in him. He works on flex time and doesn't maintain the right hours, showing up 15-30 minutes late a few days per week and taking every other Friday off anyway. His work is subpar, full of typos and not responsive. He doesn't seem to get that the primary responsibility of the job is the thing he does very poorly. In the past he had a very bad attitude, getting defensive / argumentative when corrected until I essentially told him "You won't be here another 6 months if this persists."

 

Since then he's been more professional but just isn't that talented and I think we would replace him fairly easily with someone who has a better skill set and needs less maintenance and supervision. Mostly I think the things we need him to do well aren't his talents or things he's interested in.

 

Today my boss gave me the go ahead to fire him. My only reservation is this guy has 2 kids with another on the way in May and I'd rather not go that route but truthfully, he's just not that good. I have a report in Washington who's 23 Tara old and does equivalent work with no hand holding or drama and he's coach able.

 

This guy is 39 with years of experience and his work is garbage.

 

Sh1t can him? Yes we are secretaries and I'm talking about his coffee making and blowjob skills of course.

No they don't care about your kid situation. You will be fired.

[shotsup 832]

Cut bait. You have given him a chance to improve and he has not lived up to expectations. Look to upgrade with someone who has more drive and alignment with your goals.

This.

 

And BTW I have brought up on (bogus) discimination charges many time and won them all. Dot your i's and cross you t's. Have a paper trail and you'll be fine.

[DankNuggs 305]

You are ultimately responsible for his work product as his boss. Time to move on and find a better fit. He obviously needs to find a position that better suits his skill set. It's work, not charity. That's what unemployment insurance is for

[DankNuggs 305]

Make sure your documentation is in order before doing so. Presume he's been given requisite warnings of whatever your protocol is

[shotsup 832]

Make sure your documentation is in order before doing so. Presume he's been given requisite warnings of whatever your protocol is

Paper trail

[MDC 5,895]

You are ultimately responsible for his work product as his boss. Time to move on and find a better fit. He obviously needs to find a position that better suits his skill set. It's work, not charity. That's what unemployment insurance is for

Agreed, I guess my issue is his family situation and the fact that I should've formally written him up in the fall, now he's shown minor improvement and I'd be firing him for being mediocre moreso than anything else. This is my first rodeo as a departmental manager, live and learn.

 

At this point I will be back in NYC the week after next and start a formal review plan so I can fire him with cause in a few months if he can't figure out how to work the fryolator better.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Make sure your documentation is in order before doing so. Presume he's been given requisite warnings of whatever your protocol is

Another reason right to work states are better.

[NewbieJr 540]

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RMFF!

I think that's only for when someone else jumps on him or mentions him. Then he lives rent free in their head. And we're caught on his line. But his 24/7 obsession is just him being a cool dude.

[jerryskids 5,207]

Another reason right to work states are better.

I was wondering about this. Hey MDC, you say "fire," but is his work an at-will situation? When the time comes, can you lay him off instead of firing him, and claim "restructuring" or something as the reason? That way he gets unemployment, vs. being fired for cause which might make that more difficult (I think).

[Recliner Pilot 61]

[shotsup 832]

Drop the ax and PM me. We can get a beer on me. You said NY mean Manhattan ?

[BunnysBastatrds 1,921]

Wear a protective vest. Just kidding. Fire him and have a beer. He knows it. I have yet to meet anyone who knows they are on the chopping block and didn't see it coming.

 

The best way to fire someone is to let them them know you had no choice but to do so. Most who hear that get motivated so it doesn't happen again. Some you just can't teach. I've rehired employees after they learned this lesson and they've thanked me for the wake up call.

[cyclone24 1,814]

Think of it like prison...... You gotta go out of your way early on and whack someone to show that "Hey!! Fock that....you niggas ain't focking this arse or trading this nigga for a pack of cigarettes...you feel me blood?"

 

 

I kid....I've fired a bunch of people....YOU never fire someone....they fire themselves. Or ask yourself this....would you bet $5000 grand of your own money that you could develop or work with this guy to get him where you want? If you think you can or that he's coach able...keep the guy...if not..dump him. Certainly don't keep him for some irrational sense of duty since he has kids..we all have kids....HE is putting himself in jeopardy of struggling to provide for his family...not you.

[devin952 1]

No offence Mdc, but without "George's" side of the story the point is mute. Corporate is so deep even dead dogs can smell it. I'm not saying that's the case here but we only have one side of the story.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

Moot

 

Also that doesn't really make sense. It'd be a "moot" issue if George were to quit his job . Are you saying that's what's gonna happen?

[montana 89]

His personal life is ALWAYS separated from work life. What's going on at his home isn't your concern...unless you get paid to oversee that as well?

 

At the end of the day it boils down to these basic questions:

1. Were expectations & goals communicated CLEARLY & put into writing? Preferably signed by him & you.

2. Was a reasonable timeline established & agreed upon by all involved to meet question 1? Again, signed by him/you. (Reasonable timeframe is left up to interpretation. .wink, wink)

3. What are YOU doing to assist & support HIS development? Manager/Supervisor/Boss = COACH. Did you set times where you can give advice, coaching, mentoring, etc... and document what was discussed & any key situations that said employee achieved/failed directives.

 

Regardless of what the final result is, you need to show a guided illustration of his success/failure along the way.....WITH CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS & SIGNED DOCUMENTS to show "just cause".

*Assuming you work for Corporate America*

[montana 89]

FWIW - I've fired my fair share over the years...but as someone mentioned "they fired themselves" way before the words came from my mouth.

 

To my recollection, I've only had 2 bounce back after we developed a true "game plan" to salvage their job. The rest took the news & read through the b.s. & put their 2 wks notice within a few wks after step 1 & 2 were implemented.

[Mike Honcho 4,039]

His personal life is ALWAYS separated from work life. What's going on at his home isn't your concern...unless you get paid to oversee that as well?

 

At the end of the day it boils down to these basic questions:

1. Were expectations & goals communicated CLEARLY & put into writing? Preferably signed by him & you.

2. Was a reasonable timeline established & agreed upon by all involved to meet question 1? Again, signed by him/you. (Reasonable timeframe is left up to interpretation. .wink, wink)

3. What are YOU doing to assist & support HIS development? Manager/Supervisor/Boss = COACH. Did you set times where you can give advice, coaching, mentoring, etc... and document what was discussed & any key situations that said employee achieved/failed directives.

 

Regardless of what the final result is, you need to show a guided illustration of his success/failure along the way.....WITH CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS & SIGNED DOCUMENTS to show "just cause".

*Assuming you work for Corporate America*

 

 

FWIW - I've fired my fair share over the years...but as someone mentioned "they fired themselves" way before the words came from my mouth.

 

To my recollection, I've only had 2 bounce back after we developed a true "game plan" to salvage their job. The rest took the news & read through the b.s. & put their 2 wks notice within a few wks after step 1 & 2 were implemented.

 

+1

[cyclone24 1,814]

Plant coke in is desk.....call it in.

 

Fired AND you don't pay unemployment.

 

Then fock his wife while he's in jail.

[edjr 5,567]

Yes. and much hilarity ensued.

 

When we took over the bar, it was turn key. We had all the same employees.

 

I have as much tact as a gnat.

[Kanil 519]

This.

 

And BTW I have brought up on (bogus) discimination charges many time and won them all. Dot your i's and cross you t's. Have a paper trail and you'll be fine.

Yup. Document and release.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

If you don't man up and fire people who deserve it, eventually someone will man up to fire you.

 

Just do it. It's not that hard, I've done it a dozen times.

[shovelheadt 62]

I just let a contractor go a couple of days ago. Typical IT dork, but from the first week in, was way too comfortable. By comfortable, he'd make border line inappropriate comments to people he'd just met. People that I've known for 12 years and wouldn't consider saying things to. By border line....

 

To our admin assistant - "I'm a cheap date....and easy too"

To a mainframe guy he'd just met "Who's the bday present for?"..."My daughter, she turns 21 today"....."Hey, tell her I'm single"....."Uh, she's married"....."doesn't matter to me"

To a female coworker - "You're allowed to change your mind, you're a woman"

To the same admin assistant after she says something about her husband - "I've never met anyone married that cares about their weight...or anything else for that matter"

Aloud to himself while giggling about an email he received from an Asian coworker - "Good lord...me no worky, me no log in"

 

The 2nd day he was here, I'm in the cafeteria ordering a coffee. This dude walks by and says to the cafeteria worker "Hey, watch out for this guy". He was just dumb, annoying and made everyone around him uncomfortable. When I fired him, I told him "Honestly man, I never really had a chance to evaluate your work because you are so tiring to be around. You have no filter and I've had 5 different people come up to me I barely know saying "that guy is strange". Bottom line, you've thrown our team dynamic way off and I need to get it back to normal."