KSB2424 3,148 Posted July 30, 2015 I understand how percentages work. Before you were saying "carries", now you're saying "plays". Those are different concepts; "carries" is a subset of "plays". QBs account for about half of all fumbles but a very small percentage of "carries". That's why "fumbles per carry" is a poor stat to stake much on in this instance. Let me whittle this down. Any team fumble statistic you pull and the New England Patriots are at the top of the list, if not THE top (#1) the past 5 - 7 years. Fumbles per carry, fumbles per play, all of them. Sometimes they are 2nd, sometimes they are 3rd, most times they lead the entire league. It depends how which stat you use but they all tell the same story when you put them all together. They are really, really good at not fumbling the football. That may have zero to do with less air in the balls. And those stats in and of themselves do not prove a thing. But when you put it in the context of everything else going on, it simply makes you go "Hmmmmmm". Lets take a single example of a NE RB who had a number of carries for them then went to another team and had roughly the same number of carries for the next team. BJGE. BJGE as a Patriot had 510 carries and 26 catches. And he had ZERO fumbles. BJGE as a Bengal had 498 carries and 26 catches. And has had FIVE fumbles. I know its just one player, but almost the exact same volumn yet he never once fumbled with NE but has 5 fumbles in two years with the Bengals? Again, doesn't really actually prove anything. Just makes you go Hmmmmmmm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 Remember when Goddell said he never saw the Ray Rice video Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 191 Posted July 30, 2015 Let me whittle this down. Any team fumble statistic you pull and the New England Patriots are at the top of the list, if not THE top (#1) the past 5 - 7 years. Fumbles per carry, fumbles per play, all of them. Sometimes they are 2nd, sometimes they are 3rd, most times they lead the entire league. It depends how which stat you use but they all tell the same story. They are really, really good at not fumbling the football. That may have zero to do with less air in the balls. And those stats in and of themselves do not prove a thing. But when you put it in the context of everything else going on, it simply makes you go "Hmmmmmm". Lets take a single example of a NE RB who had a number of carries for them then went to another team and had roughly the same number of carries for the next team. BJGE. BJGE as a Patriot had 510 carries and 26 catches. And he had ZERO fumbles. BJGE as a Bengal had 498 carries and 26 catches. And has had FIVE fumbles. I know its just one player, but almost the exact same volumn yet he never once fumbled with NE but has 5 fumbles in two years with the Bengals? Again, doesn't really actually prove anything. Just makes you go Hmmmmmmm. How can we be sure you're not leaving out any relevant information, considering your prior behavior? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Franknbeans 46 Posted July 30, 2015 Remember when Goddell said he never saw the Ray Rice video focus, grasshoppah Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 Let me whittle this down. Any team fumble statistic you pull and the New England Patriots are at the top of the list, if not THE top (#1) the past 5 - 7 years. Fumbles per carry, fumbles per play, all of them. Sometimes they are 2nd, sometimes they are 3rd, most times they lead the entire league. It depends how which stat you use but they all tell the same story when you put them all together. They are really, really good at not fumbling the football. That may have zero to do with less air in the balls. And those stats in and of themselves do not prove a thing. But when you put it in the context of everything else going on, it simply makes you go "Hmmmmmm". Lets take a single example of a NE RB who had a number of carries for them then went to another team and had roughly the same number of carries for the next team. BJGE. BJGE as a Patriot had 510 carries and 26 catches. And he had ZERO fumbles. BJGE as a Bengal had 498 carries and 26 catches. And has had FIVE fumbles. I know its just one player, but almost the exact same volumn yet he never once fumbled with NE but has 5 fumbles in two years with the Bengals? Again, doesn't really actually prove anything. Just makes you go Hmmmmmmm. [wormsedjrdankparrot] Belichick's superior coaching [wormsedjrdanparrot] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted July 30, 2015 How can we be sure you're not leaving out any relevant information, considering your prior behavior? Well here is BJGE's stats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeBe00.htm Do I have to always do everything around here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 Well here is BJGE's stats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeBe00.htm Do I have to always do everything around here? One person, always makes a solid case. Now please show us Laurence Maloney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BunnysBastatrds 2,461 Posted July 30, 2015 From The Washington Post Washpo - About that exploding cell phone. You know, the one that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell seems to think belonged to Machine Gun Kelly and was used in the kidnapping of the Lindberg baby, as well as the Krupp diamond theft. The one that Ted Wells said he didn’t want or need in order to complete his investigation into DeflateGate. The one the NFL’s own investigator said wasn’t necessary to the case. That one. Wells never asked for Tom Brady’s cell phone, and didn’t require it. “Keep the phone,” Wells told Brady and his agent. He insisted that his investigation was thorough without it. “I don’t think it undermines in any way the conclusions of the report,” he said. Those were his exact words. So were these, after interrogating Brady for more than five hours: “Totally cooperative,” Wells said of Brady’s testimony. Yet somehow Goodell found Brady guilty of lack of cooperation and willful destruction of evidence on appeal, all because he upgraded to an iPhone 6? There are two separate issues here. One is whether Brady and the Patriots knowingly softened game balls in the AFC Championship — and it seems clear from the league’s own recent rule changes that it doesn’t have enough evidence one way or the other on that, given its sloppy procedures and the fact that it treated ball inflation as not worth monitoring. The second larger matter is that of the league’s basic due process. Watching this case closely and curiously is John Dowd, the special counsel who conducted Major League Baseball’s investigation into Pete Rose and got him banned from the game. As a neutral observer, Dowd finds the abuse of process in DeflateGate to be the real scandal. “I still don’t know what this is about. . . . Like Seinfeld, this is about nothing,” he said in an email. He called Goodell’s ruling against Brady based on a sudden issue over Brady’s cell phone “an ambush,” and added, “The entire NFL disciplinary process lacks integrity and fairness.” “They knew and had no quarrel with the non-production of the phone,” Dowd points out. According to Dowd, this compromises the whole matter: Goodell moved the finish line. “The NFL commissioner has denied Tom Brady the fundamental right to a notice of charge and the right to defend against it,” Dowd says. There is another pattern here – a very unseemly pattern of unethical behavior by the league office under Goodell’s leadership. First, there is always a leak from the league that commands a big headline and gins up public indignation. Next comes a disciplinary hammer from Goodell that makes him look like a hero-protector. But when the excitement dies down and actual facts emerge, it all turns out to be a souped-up overreach. It happened with the leak of a false report from the league office that 11 of 12 Patriots balls were underinflated by two full pounds of PSI. It happened with the science of the Wells report that would later be shredded. And it’s happened again over the phone. It’s only when you go back and examine the Wells report, and study Goodell’s written decision more closely, that you discover the phone was never demanded as evidence. You also discover Footnote Number 11. Goodell’s own buried footnote says that during the appeal before him, Brady and his agents furnished comprehensive cell phone records, including records of 10,000 text messages, and offered to help find and reconstruct all relevant communications. The first instinct on hearing Brady “destroyed” his cell is to blast him for arrogance and stupidity and call him guilty. But then, because it’s Goodell in charge, the questions creep in. Wasn’t it Brady himself who voluntarily disclosed he got rid of his old cell and upgraded? Does it really make sense that Brady would intentionally destroy a phone it was agreed he wasn’t obliged to turn over? In fact, none of it has ever made sense. That fawking bag of d!cks Goodell will not be the commissioner this time next year. He's fawked up EVERY aspect of the league. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,995 Posted July 30, 2015 That fawking bag of d!cks Goodell will not be the commissioner this time next year. He's fawked up EVERY aspect of the league. Rog is basically printing money for the owners - he's not going anywhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 From The Washington Post Washpo - About that exploding cell phone. You know, the one that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell seems to think belonged to Machine Gun Kelly and was used in the kidnapping of the Lindberg baby, as well as the Krupp diamond theft. The one that Ted Wells said he didn’t want or need in order to complete his investigation into DeflateGate. The one the NFL’s own investigator said wasn’t necessary to the case. That one. Wells never asked for Tom Brady’s cell phone, and didn’t require it. “Keep the phone,” Wells told Brady and his agent. He insisted that his investigation was thorough without it. “I don’t think it undermines in any way the conclusions of the report,” he said. Those were his exact words. So were these, after interrogating Brady for more than five hours: “Totally cooperative,” Wells said of Brady’s testimony. Yet somehow Goodell found Brady guilty of lack of cooperation and willful destruction of evidence on appeal, all because he upgraded to an iPhone 6? There are two separate issues here. One is whether Brady and the Patriots knowingly softened game balls in the AFC Championship — and it seems clear from the league’s own recent rule changes that it doesn’t have enough evidence one way or the other on that, given its sloppy procedures and the fact that it treated ball inflation as not worth monitoring. The second larger matter is that of the league’s basic due process. Watching this case closely and curiously is John Dowd, the special counsel who conducted Major League Baseball’s investigation into Pete Rose and got him banned from the game. As a neutral observer, Dowd finds the abuse of process in DeflateGate to be the real scandal. “I still don’t know what this is about. . . . Like Seinfeld, this is about nothing,” he said in an email. He called Goodell’s ruling against Brady based on a sudden issue over Brady’s cell phone “an ambush,” and added, “The entire NFL disciplinary process lacks integrity and fairness.” “They knew and had no quarrel with the non-production of the phone,” Dowd points out. According to Dowd, this compromises the whole matter: Goodell moved the finish line. “The NFL commissioner has denied Tom Brady the fundamental right to a notice of charge and the right to defend against it,” Dowd says. There is another pattern here – a very unseemly pattern of unethical behavior by the league office under Goodell’s leadership. First, there is always a leak from the league that commands a big headline and gins up public indignation. Next comes a disciplinary hammer from Goodell that makes him look like a hero-protector. But when the excitement dies down and actual facts emerge, it all turns out to be a souped-up overreach. It happened with the leak of a false report from the league office that 11 of 12 Patriots balls were underinflated by two full pounds of PSI. It happened with the science of the Wells report that would later be shredded. And it’s happened again over the phone. It’s only when you go back and examine the Wells report, and study Goodell’s written decision more closely, that you discover the phone was never demanded as evidence. You also discover Footnote Number 11. Goodell’s own buried footnote says that during the appeal before him, Brady and his agents furnished comprehensive cell phone records, including records of 10,000 text messages, and offered to help find and reconstruct all relevant communications. The first instinct on hearing Brady “destroyed” his cell is to blast him for arrogance and stupidity and call him guilty. But then, because it’s Goodell in charge, the questions creep in. Wasn’t it Brady himself who voluntarily disclosed he got rid of his old cell and upgraded? Does it really make sense that Brady would intentionally destroy a phone it was agreed he wasn’t obliged to turn over? In fact, none of it has ever made sense. That fawking bag of d!cks Goodell will not be the commissioner this time next year. He's fawked up EVERY aspect of the league. He has made more money for the owners than you can even imagine. The way the league's popularity has grown under Goodell, I'd be shocked if the owners don't do everything in their power to keep him around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingMN 273 Posted July 30, 2015 Remember when Goddell said he never saw the Ray Rice video Remember when Kraft said he would accept the league's penalties for deflate gate and move on? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BunnysBastatrds 2,461 Posted July 30, 2015 Rog is basically printing money for the owners - he's not going anywhere. The NFL is going to make money no matter who the commissioner is. Sux could be commissioner and it would do just as good. It sells itself. Goodell is becoming a PR liability. And the owners do not want that. Not in today's society. He represents them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 191 Posted July 30, 2015 He has made more money for the owners than you can even imagine. The way the league's popularity has grown under Goodell, I'd be shocked if the owners don't do everything in their power to keep him around. If he had invented fantasy football then yeah, I would say he made tons of money for the owners. But he didn't, so I'm not crediting him with that. He also didn't invent the DVR, which makes live programming more valuable. So if the owners know their stuff, the monetary gains during his tenure shouldn't be a factor. As far as him knowing where th bodies are buried and being a lightning rod for the owners, that's a different story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted July 30, 2015 Let me whittle this down. Any team fumble statistic you pull and the New England Patriots are at the top of the list, if not THE top (#1) the past 5 - 7 years. Fumbles per carry, fumbles per play, all of them. Sometimes they are 2nd, sometimes they are 3rd, most times they lead the entire league. It depends how which stat you use but they all tell the same story when you put them all together. They are really, really good at not fumbling the football. That may have zero to do with less air in the balls. And those stats in and of themselves do not prove a thing. But when you put it in the context of everything else going on, it simply makes you go "Hmmmmmm". From 2007 to 2010 the Colts are better, both in terms of gross fumbles and fumbles per play. Then Peyton left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 Remember when Kraft said he would accept the league's penalties for deflate gate and move on? He was being disingenuous. He thought if he did that, it would get pretty boy on the field sooner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 191 Posted July 30, 2015 He was being disingenuous. He thought if he did that, it would get pretty boy on the field sooner. Frosted tips. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BunnysBastatrds 2,461 Posted July 30, 2015 He has made more money for the owners than you can even imagine. The way the league's popularity has grown under Goodell, I'd be shocked if the owners don't do everything in their power to keep him around. I keep hearing this sentiment and I don't agree with it. What has he done that any other commissioner wouldn't have done? How has he been responsible for generating any more revenue than any other commissioner could? I think the leagues popularity has grown because of fantasy football and parity in the league. Both of which were there before he became the commissioner. What has he done? Serious question: What is the first thought that comes to mind when you hear "Roger Goodell". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 I keep hearing this sentiment and I don't agree with it. What has he done that any other commissioner wouldn't have done? How has he been responsible for generating any more revenue than any other commissioner could? I think the leagues popularity has grown because of fantasy football and parity in the league. Both of which were there before he became the commissioner. What has he done? Serious question: What is the first thought that comes to mind when you hear "Roger Goodell". Goodell is fine as commissioner. People just have their selfish reasons for not liking him. Saints fans don't like him. Patriots fans don't like him. Hmmmm. What's the common denominator? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 Goodell is fine as commissioner. People just have their selfish reasons for not liking him. Saints fans don't like him. Patriots fans don't like him. Hmmmm. What's the common denominator? Teams that won a Super Bowl the last 30 years Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 191 Posted July 30, 2015 Goodell is fine as commissioner. People just have their selfish reasons for not liking him. Saints fans don't like him. Patriots fans don't like him. Hmmmm. What's the common denominator? I don't like him. I think he's a cookie cutter suit and the bro-hugs at the draft make me sick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 I don't like him. I think he's a cookie cutter suit and the bro-hugs at the draft make me sick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 Teams that won a Super Bowl the last 30 years Correct. Also teams who were heavily penalized because of wrongdoing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 Correct. Also teams who were heavily penalized because of wrongdoing. BECAUSE they won Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 Remember when Goddell said he never saw the Ray Rice video Which has what to do with Brady? Remember when Brady and his agent have tried to say that he just broke his phone before destroying it, that he also just wanted the new Iphone that was coming out (months after it came out), and that its normal to destroy his old phones (except when its not normal because he had the previous one)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 That fawking bag of d!cks Goodell will not be the commissioner this time next year. He's fawked up EVERY aspect of the league. Because of some editorial? Hah He will still be commish next year barring some new scandal. The owners freaking love him. Fawked up every aspect of the league? Really...what has he fawked up...since you claimed such a ludicrous thing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BunnysBastatrds 2,461 Posted July 30, 2015 Goodell is fine as commissioner. People just have their selfish reasons for not liking him. Saints fans don't like him. Patriots fans don't like him. Hmmmm. What's the common denominator? A "fine commissioner" would have had rules and guidelines set in place for handling suspensions before they happened, not after. They way he handled Rice and AP was a joke. And whether you like the Patriots or not, you have to admit that the long drawn out process of how he's handling Deflategate is a joke. This all could have been handled a month after the season ended. Goodell didn't know what the fawk he was doing. That much is clear considering where we are today. We should be talking about training camps, new coaches, rookie players, and positive stories that make the league look good. Instead, we're talking about the same negative story we've been talking since the Super Bowl. PR is a main part of his job. I'd say he's failed these past two years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BunnysBastatrds 2,461 Posted July 30, 2015 Teams that won a Super Bowl the last 30 years Nice!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 He has made more money for the owners than you can even imagine. The way the league's popularity has grown under Goodell, I'd be shocked if the owners don't do everything in their power to keep him around. and takes the heat off of them...which is part of his job and he does it well. They love him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 A "fine commissioner" would have had rules and guidelines set in place for handling suspensions before they happened, not after. They way he handled Rice and AP was a joke. And whether you like the Patriots or not, you have to admit that the long drawn out process of how he's handling Deflategate is a joke. This all could have been handled a month after the season ended. Goodell didn't know what the fawk he was doing. That much is clear considering where we are today. We should be talking about training camps, new coaches, rookie players, and positive stories that make the league look good. Instead, we're talking about the same negative story we've been talking since the Super Bowl. PR is a main part of his job. I'd say he's failed these past two years. Really? You think they can have a rule and guideline out there for every focking stupid things players do? The drawn out part of it sucks for sure...no doubt about that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BunnysBastatrds 2,461 Posted July 30, 2015 Which has what to do with Brady? Which has to do with Goodells incompetence. Please try and keep up with the current conversation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 191 Posted July 30, 2015 and takes the heat off of them...which is part of his job and he does it well. They love him. Sort of like being a lightening rod? Hack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted July 30, 2015 The NFL is going to make money no matter who the commissioner is. Sux could be commissioner and it would do just as good. It sells itself. Goodell is becoming a PR liability. And the owners do not want that. Not in today's society. He represents them. This. A huge reason that the NFL is making all of this money is due to some sweet TV deals and the current CBA with the players providing cost certainty for owners. Much of the former brokered by Robert Kraft and much of the latter by his son, Jonathan. With that said, there was little support for Kraft at the owner's meetings in San Francisco to fight the league. He backed down. If there is a change in other owner's view of this issue, then it could be a big power play between Goodell and Kraft. I would probably bet on Kraft at this point, though. The outcome of this court case could really affect the dynamic of the league from an ownership and union standpoint. Not sure how it will turn out, but it will be interesting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 191 Posted July 30, 2015 The Mara's and the Rooneys have the most influence in the league. As it should be. Kraft did, and Woody Johnson is right behind them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BunnysBastatrds 2,461 Posted July 30, 2015 Because of some editorial? Hah He will still be commish next year barring some new scandal. The owners freaking love him. Fawked up every aspect of the league? Really...what has he fawked up...since you claimed such a ludicrous thing? Not based on an editorial. On growing opinion. And not just my own, but plenty of others as well. He's not well liked by many. I think there are some nervous fans out there that hope their team doesn't have a scandal under this commissioner. And there will be plenty more scandals to come. It's the nature of the beast. The league is making a ton of money. It's popular. But all of these scandals are tarnishing it's image in my opinion. And Goodell is not handling ANY of them well. There's a scandal around every corner. I think the league has a black eye from all of it. I think the owners are starting to look bad because of Goodell. What's the first thing you think of when you hear Roger Goodell? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 BECAUSE they won Why haven't he Seahawks, Giants, Colts. etc received huge team penalties? Oh yeah, playing within the rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 A "fine commissioner" would have had rules and guidelines set in place for handling suspensions before they happened, not after. They way he handled Rice and AP was a joke. And whether you like the Patriots or not, you have to admit that the long drawn out process of how he's handling Deflategate is a joke. This all could have been handled a month after the season ended. Goodell didn't know what the fawk he was doing. That much is clear considering where we are today. We should be talking about training camps, new coaches, rookie players, and positive stories that make the league look good. Instead, we're talking about the same negative story we've been talking since the Super Bowl. PR is a main part of his job. I'd say he's failed these past two years. Penalties get made as different circumstances arise. Balls were measured and ready to go. Then Brady had the ball boy sneak into the bathroom to let air out. That's a new one. Of course there's not a penalty already in place. Plus, they're a repeat offender. I don't think Goodell is perfect. Far from it./ The Rice situation was ridiculous. But I do agree that off field issues shouldn't be as heavily fined as things that affect the outcome of games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 Not based on an editorial. On growing opinion. And not just my own, but plenty of others as well. He's not well liked by many. I think there are some nervous fans out there that hope their team doesn't have a scandal under this commissioner. And there will be plenty more scandals to come. It's the nature of the beast. The league is making a ton of money. It's popular. But all of these scandals are tarnishing it's image in my opinion. And Goodell is not handling ANY of them well. There's a scandal around every corner. I think the league has a black eye from all of it. I think the owners are starting to look bad because of Goodell. What's the first thing you think of when you hear Roger Goodell? So the league is starting to look bad because of Goodell? And not because of teams offering bounties to injure opposing players? Or teams cheating? LOLOL Listen to yourself. You sound ridiculous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 Why haven't he Seahawks, Giants, Colts. etc received huge team penalties? Oh yeah, playing within the rules. if the Patriots had never won, no one would give a sh1t about them. HTH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 if the Patriots had never won, no one would give a sh1t about them. HTH Spygate would have still been an issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Ryan2 316 Posted July 30, 2015 Spygate would have still been an issue. why? all the other teams were doing it too... they just weren't winning... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites