NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 True, but they don't run the ball as much as a lot of teams either. They have led the league in least fumbles per carry though. As a percentage, which is a much better stat. But that stat doesn't work for their lies. So that won't get mentioned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingMN 273 Posted July 30, 2015 and one version of this claims they were suspended because the NFL offices asked NE to suspend them when the investigation started - Kraft begrudgingly agreed to it out of respect for the league and its investigation. The Patriots did not suspend these employees, they were asked by the NFL to suspend them. And the employees then testified in the Wells report that they did not tamper with the balls - and the NFL office then edited the "independent" report to remove that part. One of the equipment guys was known as the deflator, right? The Patriots actually called this guy the deflator but that was because he was trying to lose weight, right? And the NFL asked the Pats to suspend these guys during the investigation.....which has concluded. Are they still suspended? Is the NFL trying to keep these guys quiet because they insist they didn't do anything wrong and they don't want that version made public? Can the NFL control each team's personnel like that? That's a lot of ???....but you get the point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 848 Posted July 30, 2015 The key word that has everyone up in arms is "destroyed" which Brady used himself. Boy has he really turned out to be a typical moron football player Don't forget "Michigan Man" too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Ryan2 316 Posted July 30, 2015 Two ball boys who were accused of letting air out of balls- Fired this is the first thing out of your keyboard and it is not factual. As I said Newbie - Brady may have been involved, NE and the equipment guys may have deflated balls - I don't know the truth - there's no proof of it - only a media frenzy of misinformation and message boards of patriots haters that cherry-pick whatever version looks worst for NE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 191 Posted July 30, 2015 Here's your big chance. What's the truth about these equipment guys? Why were they suspended? Why aren't they back with the team yet? They are going to say they took memorabilia. Corralling and controlling the bal boys is the only thing these idiots have done right in this cover up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted July 30, 2015 But that stat doesn't work for their lies. So that won't get mentioned. What lies? You posted something as a "fact", which was not a "fact", ergo, you're the one who posted a "lie". You're entitled to your own opinion, you're not entitled to your own facts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 this is the first thing out of your keyboard and it is not factual. As I said Newbie - Brady may have been involved, NE and the equipment guys may have deflated balls - I don't know the truth - there's no proof of it - only a media frenzy of misinformation and message boards of patriots haters that cherry-pick whatever version looks worst for NE. If you were a fan of any team but New England, it would be as crystal clear to you as it is to everyone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 What lies? You posted something as a "fact", which was not a "fact". You're entitled to your own opinion, you're not entitled to your own facts. Sorry that I had the stat wrong. It still verifies my point. They fumble less than every team in the league per attempt. That better for you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Ryan2 316 Posted July 30, 2015 If you were a fan of any team but New England, it would be as crystal clear to you as it is to everyone else. agreed - I'd be piling on them too - easy target. But I'd also acknowledge the absurdity of it... 2 psi... so insignificant that the referee handling the ball for a half didn't even notice... and it's turned into this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mungwater 597 Posted July 30, 2015 agreed - I'd be piling on them too - easy target. But I'd also acknowledge the absurdity of it... 2 psi... so insignificant that the referee handling the ball for a half didn't even notice... and it's turned into this? It's never the action, always the cover up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 191 Posted July 30, 2015 It's never the action, always the cover up I often hear people say this, and it's always so stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 It's never the action, always the cover up Usually accurate. However, 2 weeks before the Super Bowl had Brady said.. meh, Yeah we did it. The world would have exploded Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 I often hear people say this, and it's always so stupid. Eli is a great QB? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted July 30, 2015 It's never the action, always the cover up I had this conversation with my wife last night at dinner. The tv was on in the other room, the nightly news talking about Tom Brady. She asked "Why are they making such a big deal about this? "Why is the NFL being so hard on him?" I replied: Well first of all Brady is a big time player so its going to be news, but moreso its not because of what he or they did per se, its because the NFL thinks they are not being forthcoming or outright lying to them. You know how we tell our kids to be truthful to us? That if they are truthful of something they did, we may be a bit disappointed and they may get into some trouble, BUT if we find out they lied to us about it we will be MAD and they will get in much more trouble? Well its like that." She said "makes sense". And I finished my Spaghetti. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mungwater 597 Posted July 30, 2015 I often hear people say this, and it's always so stupid. Maybe for hardcore stuff, but something minor like this, if tom would have said, "yeah, I guess I wasn't aware, sorry.." World would have exploded for a week and he would have been fined, end of story. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted July 30, 2015 Sorry that I had the stat wrong. It still verifies my point. They fumble less than every team in the league per attempt. That better for you? Still not true last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 because Roger Goodell is afraid of losing his job after a disastrous year as commissioner. He is trying to rehabilitate his image and re-establish himself as a powerful, respect commissioner. To do this, he levied an outrageous and unprecedented punishment on the team that may or may not have committed an equipment infraction. Kraft, in an attempt to bring some sanity to it all and calm down the volatile commissioner, agreed to Goodell's outlandish requests because he had faith that a full investigation based on science and truth would make it clear how insignificant or non-existent any wrong doings were. Instead, Goodell used Kraft/Brady/NE's cooperation to create media headlines and impose even harsher punishments beyond the already unprecedented punishments for something that may not have happened and even if it did happen is fairly insignificant. People keep saying this...the guy isn't going anywhere...owners still love him and want the Pats punished for their crap. May or may not have? No...they did. Its been shown...they did. You won't accept that. He agreed to the requests because he was focked and he had no choice. Science and truth showed the Pats to be in violation. Evidence showed enough for the threshold used in civil court that the pats had altered the balls and Brady had knowledge. Facts have shown Brady to be untrustworthy and uncooperative. Harsher punishments...quit crying. Your boys got off easy the way its looking with their lies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 this is the first thing out of your keyboard and it is not factual. As I said Newbie - Brady may have been involved, NE and the equipment guys may have deflated balls - I don't know the truth - there's no proof of it - only a media frenzy of misinformation and message boards of patriots haters that cherry-pick whatever version looks worst for NE. I don't hate the Patriots...just another false narrative of the fanboys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 agreed - I'd be piling on them too - easy target. But I'd also acknowledge the absurdity of it... 2 psi... so insignificant that the referee handling the ball for a half didn't even notice... and it's turned into this? It turned into this due to altereing balls after inspection...and the subsequent obstruction and lies by your golden boy QB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 I often hear people say this, and it's always so stupid. But its completely true. Who looks worse...Arod and Braun...or Andy Petitte? All did the same thing. One owned up to it rather than lie, obstruct and cover up. And he is not talked about with the others. Perjure yourself in a federal hearing for something small and see how "stupid" it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,059 Posted July 30, 2015 agreed - I'd be piling on them too - easy target. But I'd also acknowledge the absurdity of it... 2 psi... so insignificant that the referee handling the ball for a half didn't even notice... and it's turned into this? And the league was tipped off ahead of time, but allowed a team to play an entire half of a conference championship game with a supposed illicit advantage. Yeah focking right. I hope for their sakes that isn't true or they have essentially admitted the game is a sham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 If its so insignificant...whey did they do it? Oh wait...some of you still think they didn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 And the league was tipped off ahead of time, but allowed a team to play an entire half of a conference championship game with a supposed illicit advantage. Yeah focking right. I hope for their sakes that isn't true or they have essentially admitted the game is a shamit seems everything surrounding deflategate pisses you off. Except the fact that brady cheated. That's ok. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11218534_442239392620543_5853100699008018373_n.jpg?oh=3c85b825dfaf330fbe0e853218f0cc47&oe=561187A4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted July 30, 2015 True, but they don't run the ball as much as a lot of teams either. They have led the league in least fumbles per carry though. As a percentage, which is a much better stat. Why would "fumbles per carry" be a "much better stat" when 3/4 of fumbles come from non-RB positions? Even "fumbles per play" can be a misleading ratio since a disproportionate number of fumbles occur on special teams plays. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Ryan2 316 Posted July 30, 2015 And the league was tipped off ahead of time, but allowed a team to play an entire half of a conference championship game with a supposed illicit advantage. Yeah focking right. I hope for their sakes that isn't true or they have essentially admitted the game is a sham yup - and this is why it's not unreasonable to think that this was never about the integrity of the game, or "getting it right", it was a "gotcha", setup all along. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 191 Posted July 30, 2015 And the league was tipped off ahead of time, but allowed a team to play an entire half of a conference championship game with a supposed illicit advantage. Yeah focking right. I hope for their sakes that isn't true or they have essentially admitted the game is a sham Still don't get it. They checked the balls before the game. They didn't allow anything, but they were on the lookout. The patriots tampered after they were checked. Did you want them to check the balls during game time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 yup - and this is why it's not unreasonable to think that this was never about the integrity of the game, or "getting it right", it was a "gotcha", setup all along. So you think the NFL...already under fire for concussions. Set up the Patriots? One of the model franchises? And their golden boy QB? Yeah...seems like the most unreasonable and illogical thing ever. Except to Pats fans... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 191 Posted July 30, 2015 yup - and this is why it's not unreasonable to think that this was never about the integrity of the game, or "getting it right", it was a "gotcha", setup all along. So? They wouldn't have gotten anything if the Pats didn't cheat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted July 30, 2015 Why would "fumbles per carry" be a "much better stat" when 3/4 of fumbles come from non-RB positions? Even "fumbles per play" can be a misleading ratio since a disproportionate number of fumbles occur on special teams plays. Because if Team A runs 500 plays and Team B runs 400 plays then one would expect team A to have more fumbles. That's a numbers game and doesn't tell you which team is less prone to fumble. A percentage would. Lets use a baseball example. Player A has 1000 at bats and 312 hits. .312 batting average Player B has 750 at bats and 290 hits. .386 batting average Which player would be considered the "better hitter", i.e. which statistic is better to use? The one with the most total hits or the one that has the better batting average? Fumbles per play is a better stat than total fumbles. Now with that said, like any stat that may have to do with playing indoor versus outdoor, conditions, coaching, all of it. So it doesn't really "prove" anything. It's just something that makes you go hmmmmmm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 So you think the NFL...already under fire for concussions. Set up the Patriots? One of the model franchises? And their golden boy QB? Yeah...seems like the most unreasonable and illogical thing ever. Except to Pats fans... Why did they edit the Wells Report before releasing it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,790 Posted July 30, 2015 The Barry Bonds comparison Is a good one. Brady, by fighting this like he is Is only making things worse and setting his reputation in stone. Everybody hates Barry Bonds, But still loves Andy Pettitte. If Brady wouldn't have been such a about all this, you might have gotten 1 or 2 game suspension And moved on.It would be a non-story, And forgotten entirely by Thanksgiving.I have nothing against the guy personally, But he deserves everything that's coming to him Based upon his behavior. He really needs new advisors. Either that, or more than likely, he is ignoring The best advice of his best advisors. Which would be to shut up, take it and move on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted July 30, 2015 Because if Team A runs 500 plays and Team B runs 400 plays then one would expect team A to have more fumbles. That's a numbers game and doesn't tell you which team is less prone to fumble. A percentage would. Lets use a baseball example. Player A has 1000 at bats and 312 hits. .312 batting average Player B has 750 at bats and 290 hits. .386 batting average Which player would be considered the "better hitter", i.e. which statistic is better to use? The one with the most total hits or the one that has the better batting average? I understand how percentages work. Before you were saying "carries", now you're saying "plays". Those are different concepts; "carries" is a subset of "plays". QBs account for about half of all fumbles but a very small percentage of "carries". That's why "fumbles per carry" is a poor stat to stake much on in this instance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 The Barry Bonds comparison Is a good one. Brady, by fighting this like he is Is only making things worse and setting his reputation in stone. Was already there for most Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 Why did they edit the Wells Report before releasing it? Cause they could? Any evidence that they took bout things that prove NE didn't do anything? You all are reaching...bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 Was already there for most Not really.Now he is a known liar... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,608 Posted July 30, 2015 Cause they could? Pay 5 million for a report and edit it before the public sees it. not fishy at all. No agenda there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 Was already there for most Brady was known by the leagues' fans as a sissy boy. A whiner who wanted to be untouched the entire game or else he'd plead to the ref for a flag. His character was never called into question. By cheating, and then lying, and then refusing to just man up and move on, he is coming across as thinking he's above the rules and beyond reproach. He looks like a spoiled little baby. Plus, anytime you're found out to be a cheater, it raises a lot of questions about past accomplishments. Brady is well aware of that. That's why he's putting himself above the team right now. This is personal for him. He knows how it makes him look. Every roider denies it. For the same reason. Everyone hates a cheater. So cheaters deny, deny, deny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted July 30, 2015 Pay 5 million for a report and edit it before the public sees it. not fishy at all. No agenda there Nice parse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted July 30, 2015 Pats fans are in full Ryan Braun mode now. When you know you can no longer argue the fact of whether or not you're a cheater, turn to procedures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
