Now that the transcripts have been released for deflategate.....

[Herbivore 1,134]

Well, you might want to take a look at the Giants stats then. They had no running game to speak of in 2011 and he ran in to a bunch of HOF QB'S on his way to his rings. He beat Romo, Favre, Rodgers and Brady twice, all on the road. He had one home playoff game in his runs as well. And took down a great 49r defense on the road in OT, and got his ass kicked in bad conditions the whole game. This Eli got lucky nonsense is out of control.

 

Many quality posts pointing to how Eli is not Elite. Good, can be very good, often not. He certainly was clutch in the 2 bowl runs. Which are also the only 2 years that he has won a game in the playoffs.

[edjr 6,580]

I hope someone in my league does that. And I hope they take Rodgers real early too.

 

the only league I am in that I care about ($1000 entry) gives extra points for longer tds, so Rogers and Luck will go top 3 easy Probably 1, 2.. Brady would have (boston based league) hopefully someone else sneaks in there.

 

Used to always be a dominant RB or 2 to take high, don't see him this year.

 

I am drafting 10 out of 14 (Gronk?)

 

Draft is Sept 9, hopefully Brady thing will be over

[cbfalcon 825]

 

the only league I am in that I care about ($1000 entry) gives extra points for longer tds, so Rogers and Luck will go top 3 easy Probably 1, 2.. Brady would have (boston based league) hopefully someone else sneaks in there.

 

Used to always be a dominant RB or 2 to take high, don't see him this year.

 

I am drafting 10 out of 14

 

If I were you, I wouldn't allow myself to care about any league CBFalcon is in either. Why torture yourself, you know?

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

 

the only league I am in that I care about ($1000 entry) gives extra points for longer tds, so Rogers and Luck will go top 3 easy. Brady would have (boston based league) hopefully someone else sneaks in there.

 

I am drafting 10 out of 14

Same scoring system 12 teamer 3 rr. 500 a team. It's our 20th year and I can tell you with great accuracy who's drafting who. I'm the only one who does it counter to popular strategy. I usually end up with a glut of WR's QB 's and TE's. While everyone is banging away on RB's I'm stacking up at everything else. It requires discipline, but the only spot on the WW or trades I have to worry about is RB. I've taken a RB early once in the last 10 years. AP the year before last. It didn't work out. There are no more Ladanians or Priest Holmes anymore.

[edjr 6,580]

Same scoring system 12 teamer 3 rr. 500 a team. It's our 20th year and I can tell you with great accuracy who's drafting who. I'm the only one who does it counter to popular strategy. I usually end up with a glut of WR's QB 's and TE's. While everyone is banging away on RB's I'm stacking up at everything else. It requires discipline, but the only spot on the WW or trades I have to worry about is RB. I've taken a RB early once in the last 10 years. AP the year before last. It didn't work out. There are no more Ladanians or Priest Holmes anymore.

 

Im the guy that waits till round 6 or after to take a QB.. I think Gronk at 10 might be a good pick

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

 

Im the guy that waits till round 6 or after to take a QB.. I think Gronk at 10 might be a good pick

I think Gronk is incredible. I had him the last 2 years, but I got him in the 4 and 5th rounds. Keep in mid that TE is a high contact position, so TE's tend to get hurt, a lot, Tony Gonzalez being the exception. I like Demarious Thomas late first round. Steady high end production.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Well, you might want to take a look at the Giants stats then. They had no running game to speak of in 2011 and he ran in to a bunch of HOF QB'S on his way to his rings. He beat Romo, Favre, Rodgers and Brady twice, all on the road. He had one home playoff game in his runs as well. And took down a great 49r defense on the road in OT, and got his ass kicked in bad conditions the whole game. This Eli got lucky nonsense is out of control.

 

Bradshaw had a pretty solid run in the playoffs that year (2011)...with Jacobs as a compliment...including the SB.

And sacks and turnovers against the Packers that year too. 4 sacks and 4 turnovers by Green Bay. Eli had a very good game...but the D shut down the Packers that day...one of the best Packers offenses ever.

Beating Romo in the playoffs isn't saying all that much.

He beat Favre in 2007 on his last few years of legs (when he didn't look like he wanted to be out in that cold). Eli didn't do much that game either. Conditions and the Giants D won that more than Eli.

[edjr 6,580]

I think Gronk is incredible. I had him the last 2 years, but I got him in the 4 and 5th rounds. Keep in mid that TE is a high contact position, so TE's tend to get hurt, a lot, Tony Gonzalez being the exception. I like Demarious Thomas late first round. Steady high end production.

 

believe it or not Gronk was only hurt once while playing TE.

 

He got hurt blocking for a FG. Nice job Coach.. for what? that one fake FG you will never run?

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

 

 

Bradshaw had a pretty solid run in the playoffs that year (2011)...with Jacobs as a compliment...including the SB.

And sacks and turnovers against the Packers that year too. 4 sacks and 4 turnovers by Green Bay. Eli had a very good game...but the D shut down the Packers that day...one of the best Packers offenses ever.

Beating Romo in the playoffs isn't saying all that much.

He beat Favre in 2007 on his last few years of legs (when he didn't look like he wanted to be out in that cold). Eli didn't do much that game either. Conditions and the Giants D won that more than Eli.[/quote

 

In 2011 the Giants were 32nd in rushing. That's last. In the playoff games vs Green Bay and the 49rs they rushed for 85 and 87 yards. Conditions? Oh yeah, the Giants must have been on the sunny side of the field. And Brett Favre finished fourth in passing in 2007. Brett Favre was throwing picks in big spots long before 2007 and he played at a pretty high level long after that. Nice try.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

 

believe it or not Gronk was only hurt once while playing TE.

 

He got hurt blocking for a FG. Nice job Coach.. for what? that one fake FG you will never run?

He got knocked out for the season mid way through the 2013 season. Low tackle. I know. I had him.

[edjr 6,580]

He got knocked out for the season mid way through the 2013 season. Low tackle. I know. I had him.

 

That is the once.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

 

That is the once.

Ok, but TE, especially in that offense, takes on a lot of contact. Contact=injuries. But he may be worth the risk.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

He was also hurt in the 2011 Suoer bowl. Could barely run.

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

In 2011 the Giants were 32nd in rushing. That's last. In the playoff games vs Green Bay and the 49rs they rushed for 85 and 87 yards. Conditions? Oh yeah, the Giants must have been on the sunny side of the field. And Brett Favre finished fourth in passing in 2007. Brett Favre was throwing picks in big spots long before 2007 and he played at a pretty high level long after that. Nice try.

 

Yearly rankings don't always tell the whole story.

Their defense has not always ranked well on the year either...but then steps up. Eli has done the same at times.

 

Yes...conditions that a 40 year old QB looked miserable to be in...part of what sent him out of town the next year. Giants overcame that. But Eli didn't exactly have the best game...and acting like it was going thru Favre in his prime is just dumb.

 

And you ignore the rest of what I said...which isn't shocking.

 

Nice try yourself.

Eli has come up clutch twice with great runs in the playoffs...does not make him elite right now.

[cbfalcon 825]

Back to Brady and Goodell....

 

I'm not endorsing these articles (yet), as I haven't read them (yet) but I do think it's interesting that the media viewpoint is turning. The whole punishment is based on Goodell knowing the headlines will convince the uneducated that he did good....So headlines could also turn the tide if they get loud enough. I just gogled "Roger Goodell" and these were the first 3 stories listed.

 

Skip Bayless says Goodell Framed Brady:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/08/skip-bayless-says-roger-goodell-framed-tom-brady-deflategate-espn-first-take

 

Deflate-gate is rotting Roger Goodell's spoils of lockout victory:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflate-gate-is-rotting-roger-goodell-s-spoils-of-lockout-victory-064322873.html

 

Roger Goodell’s insistence on acting as emperor makes the NFL vulnerable to a legal smackdown

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/deflategate-judge-doesnt-seem-likely-to-rubber-stamp-roger-goodells-decisions/2015/08/21/034f8a26-4747-11e5-846d-02792f854297_story.html

[cbfalcon 825]

"There has to be some basic process of fairness," Berman said at one point, but the truth – and the crux of the case – is that maybe there doesn't.

The NFL's defense, as Nash kept pointing out in the face of a double-team of repeated hostile questioning by Berman and dramatic presentations by Kessler, is that it doesn't matter if the league's system is terrible, unfair, nonsensical, rooted in bias or, at its core, heavy-handed. Since it was collectively bargained with the union, league commissioner Roger Goodell can, in theory, be completely wrong based on the inaccurate findings of a bad investigation and no one can do anything about it.

"We had a hearing and the commissioner gave a verdict that is final and binding," Nash said.

The NFL may very well be correct on that. Berman may very well go against what appears to be his instincts and rule in favor of the league, essentially concluding that the NFL won this case, or any case really, when it whipped the union in the last lockout.

………

How, for instance, could the NFL deny Brady the right to question Jeff Pash, the league's general counsel, "co-lead"/editor of the Wells Report and a critical potential witness?

"I don't understand," Berman said before blasting the NFL's reasoning that Goodell, as the arbitrator, decided that anything Pash would say would just be "cumulative" and thus not worth hearing.

"Under the law the arbitrator doesn't have the authority to determine evidence will be cumulative," Berman stated. "… How would you know [what Pash was going to testify]?"

How could the NFL attorneys use specific notes to cross-examine Brady but refuse to supply that information to Brady's attorneys when they requested it?

"There are standards of fairness," Berman said.

…….

How could Goodell, in his role of appellate judge not merely rule on upholding the original conviction of Brady but actually triple down on the verdict and take the QB from "generally aware" of others behavior to the guy orchestrating "a scheme." This was an appeals hearing, not a new trial begging for a new, tougher, verdict.

"A quantum leap," Berman declared.

……..

How could the conclusive sentence in Ted Wells' report be used as the basis to punish Brady for the football inflation levels of footballs in the AFC championship game when it failed to even mention the game or the date or anything specific?

"A conspicuous absence," Berman said, a couple of times, after he – not Kessler of the NFLPA – raised this potential flaw in the NFL's case

Was Wells, the "independent" investigator, just that incredibly sloppy or was it a tell that he had nothing on Brady for that game … which, Berman noted, is the only game that matters and not what two guys texted months prior.

"Mr. Wells is a smart man," Berman said, wondering if it could be a coincidence that such an experienced attorney was so cute with the verbiage.

 

…..

When Kessler made fun of the league not being aware of the ninth-grade scientific concept of Ideal Gas Law, the judge laughed. When Kessler compared the NFL's inflation level measuring techniques to a cop catching a speeder by counting "one Mississippi, two Mississippi …" he appeared as amused as almost everyone else.

When Kessler noted the league was wrong when it tried to paint Brady as a cheat for preferring his footballs be inflated at the low end of the legal limit, Berman cheered him on before requesting Berman read Brady's specific testimony to drive the point home.

"I agree with you," the judge said.

 

 

http://sports.yahoo....-064322873.html

[Kanil 520]

Back to Brady and Goodell....

 

I'm not endorsing these articles (yet), as I haven't read them (yet) but I do think it's interesting that the media viewpoint is turning. The whole punishment is based on Goodell knowing the headlines will convince the uneducated that he did good....So headlines could also turn the tide if they get loud enough. I just gogled "Roger Goodell" and these were the first 3 stories listed.

 

Skip Bayless says Goodell Framed Brady:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/08/skip-bayless-says-roger-goodell-framed-tom-brady-deflategate-espn-first-take

 

Deflate-gate is rotting Roger Goodell's spoils of lockout victory:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflate-gate-is-rotting-roger-goodell-s-spoils-of-lockout-victory-064322873.html

 

Roger Goodell’s insistence on acting as emperor makes the NFL vulnerable to a legal smackdown

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/deflategate-judge-doesnt-seem-likely-to-rubber-stamp-roger-goodells-decisions/2015/08/21/034f8a26-4747-11e5-846d-02792f854297_story.html

Good post except for relying on Skip Bayless. That guy's made a career out of saying (and defending) the most ridiculous things possible. Keep in mind, this is the guy that still thinks Tebow is elite.

[cbfalcon 825]

Good post except for relying on Skip Bayless. That guy's made a career out of saying (and defending) the most ridiculous things possible. Keep in mind, this is the guy that still thinks Tebow is elite.

 

I didn't endorse it. I just showed the top 3 stories when googling "Roger Goodell".

 

Bayliss is a screwball obviously. But those other 2 stories are spot on. I think Goodell is done. Soon everyone will know it.

[Kanil 520]

 

I didn't endorse it. I just showed the top 3 stories when googling "Roger Goodell".

 

Bayliss is a screwball obviously. But those other 2 stories are spot on. I think Goodell is done. Soon everyone will know it.

I think the ruling determines whether he stays or goes. If he wins, he just gave the NFL a huge chip when they go to the table on the next CBA. Opposite if they lose as the chip will be in the NFLPAs hands.

[edjr 6,580]

Transcript from last week's court session has been released.

 

 

 

 

 

Judge: Why didn’t you let Mr. Pash testify?
NFL: Because he wasn’t important to the case.
Judge: Wasn’t there a press release saying that he was the co-investigator?
NFL: That press release doesn’t matter and was incorrect.
Judge: But didn’t the NFL write the press release?
NFL: Roger Goodell said the press release doesn’t matter and that Mr. Pash doesn’t have to testify and that’s really all that matters.
Judge: That doesn’t seem fair
NFL: It doesn’t matter what you think it’s fair or not. Even though we are the ones who started this lawsuit and brough Tom Brady to court you don’t have the right to make a decision because Roger Goodell is more powerful than you and that’s all that matters.

[cbfalcon 825]

Transcript from last week's court session has been released.

 

 

 

 

 

Judge: Why didn’t you let Mr. Pash testify?

NFL: Because he wasn’t important to the case.

Judge: Wasn’t there a press release saying that he was the co-investigator?

NFL: That press release doesn’t matter and was incorrect.

Judge: But didn’t the NFL write the press release?

NFL: Roger Goodell said the press release doesn’t matter and that Mr. Pash doesn’t have to testify and that’s really all that matters.

Judge: That doesn’t seem fair

NFL: It doesn’t matter what you think it’s fair or not. Even though we are the ones who started this lawsuit and brough Tom Brady to court you don’t have the right to make a decision because Roger Goodell is more powerful than you and that’s all that matters.

 

The league could announce "We had no evidence at all that Brady cheated, nor that any cheating actually even happened. But we didn't want to look dumb for having made a big deal about this, so we essentially decided we would suspend him no matter what. We told Wells what to say, then we edited his report to make it more favorable. We then decided to lie and and announce that the appeal's process confirmed our suspicions, as we thought we could convince the public of that since we believed the testimony would remain sealed by the court. This is all true. But the fact is, we don't know for a fact he didn't cheat, do we? And Roger Goodell has the right to do what he wants to anyone with or without cause, as outlined in the CBA. So we've decided to suspend Brady for the entire season now, and Belichick is gone for 2 years". And the Newbies and ShoNuffs would simply nod their heads and say "Sure, the route taken is questionable, but they got the correct result and that's all that matters"

[NewbieJr 541]

So now none of the balls were even underinflated? Wow, the Patriots were framed. Bwahahahaha

 

The Deflator should sue for defamation of character.

[RLLD 4,230]

So now none of the balls were even underinflated? Wow, the Patriots were framed. Bwahahahaha

 

The Deflator should sue for defamation of character.

 

...and being suspended and punished for no good reason?

[cbfalcon 825]

So now none of the balls were even underinflated? Wow, the Patriots were framed. Bwahahahaha

 

The Deflator should sue for defamation of character.

 

1. Who said none of the balls were underinflated?

2. Is your contention that underinflated balls are proof enough of cheating and worthy of suspension?

[NewbieJr 541]

 

...and being suspended and punished for no good reason?

LOL Yup. They permanently suspended The Deflator and his buddy. Accepted losing two draft picks and fined a million bucks, and now, suddenly, there wasn't even air left out of any of the balls. So nice of New England to voluntarily lose staff, draft picks, and money when they didn't do a thing wrong. Such great fellas.

[cbfalcon 825]

LOL Yup. They permanently suspended The Deflator and his buddy. Accepted losing two draft picks and fined a million bucks, and now, suddenly, there wasn't even air left out of any of the balls. So nice of New England to voluntarily lose staff, draft picks, and money when they didn't do a thing wrong. Such great fellas.

 

I keep waiting on you to develop a stance.

 

We know you think accepting a punishment in hopes of ending the story confirms 100% guilt in your eyes.

We know that appealing the punishment and fighting it to the end confirms 100% guilt in your eyes.

 

It's almost as if........no matter how they reacted, you would have said that confirmed 100% guilt in your eyes. While I could never be so close minded, I will admit your way of thinking is a much simpler way to live a life. Kudos friend.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

 

I keep waiting on you to develop a stance.

 

We know you think accepting a punishment in hopes of ending the story confirms 100% guilt in your eyes.

We know that appealing the punishment and fighting it to the end confirms 100% guilt in your eyes.

 

It's almost as if........no matter how they reacted, you would have said that confirmed 100% guilt in your eyes. While I could never be so close minded, I will admit your way of thinking is a much simpler way to live a life. Kudos friend.

It's not that they accepted punishment to make it go away, that's understandable. It's the severity of the punishment that they accepted. That's not make it go away punishment, that's they have the goods on me punishment.

[TD Ryan2 316]

 

I keep waiting on you to develop a stance.

 

We know you think accepting a punishment in hopes of ending the story confirms 100% guilt in your eyes.

We know that appealing the punishment and fighting it to the end confirms 100% guilt in your eyes.

 

It's almost as if........no matter how they reacted, you would have said that confirmed 100% guilt in your eyes. While I could never be so close minded, I will admit your way of thinking is a much simpler way to live a life. Kudos friend.

 

this is an excellent point.

cbfalcon is winning. very nice job here.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

I keep waiting on you to develop a stance.

 

We know you think accepting a punishment in hopes of ending the story confirms 100% guilt in your eyes.

We know that appealing the punishment and fighting it to the end confirms 100% guilt in your eyes.

 

It's almost as if........no matter how they reacted, you would have said that confirmed 100% guilt in your eyes. While I could never be so close minded, I will admit your way of thinking is a much simpler way to live a life. Kudos friend.

I have zero doubt that they're guilty. Cheating is what they do. The Deflator is proof to me. Destroying the phone is proof to me. The patriots firing the ball boys is proof to me. Kraft so quickly accepting his penalties is proof to me.

 

Multiple times, I've stated what Brady needed to do to make this be a tiny story with minimal punishment. He decided to go the Rafael Palmiero route. And Arod route. And Ryan Braun route. Good for him. Braun got lucky and a bad investigation got him off. And that's what Brady is hoping for.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

this is an excellent point.

cbfalcon is winning. very nice job here.

OMG omg omg A Patriots fan thinks that someone defending Brady and the Pats is winning!!!! Someone alert the media!! ROFL

[Sho Nuff 720]

I have zero doubt that they're guilty. Cheating is what they do. The Deflator is proof to me. Destroying the phone is proof to me. The patriots firing the ball boys is proof to me. Kraft so quickly accepting his penalties is proof to me.

 

Multiple times, I've stated what Brady needed to do to make this be a tiny story with minimal punishment. He decided to go the Rafael Palmiero route. And Arod route. And Ryan Braun route. Good for him. Braun got lucky and a bad investigation got him off. And that's what Brady is hoping for.

 

Meanwhile...Andy P....just had his Yankees jersey retired.

[DankNuggs 305]

 

I keep waiting on you to develop a stance.

 

We know you think accepting a punishment in hopes of ending the story confirms 100% guilt in your eyes.

We know that appealing the punishment and fighting it to the end confirms 100% guilt in your eyes.

 

It's almost as if........no matter how they reacted, you would have said that confirmed 100% guilt in your eyes. While I could never be so close minded, I will admit your way of thinking is a much simpler way to live a life. Kudos friend.

He doesn't want to have a stance, he is rooting for bad things to happen to the best team in football.... Like all the other haters, it goes no further than that.

[Djgb13 2,339]

It's hard to win an argument with a smart person. It's impossible to win an argument with a dumb person. HTH

[DankNuggs 305]

It's not that they accepted punishment to make it go away, that's understandable. It's the severity of the punishment that they accepted. That's not make it go away punishment, that's they have the goods on me punishment.

Putting myself in Krafts shoes, he just won the SB, wants the focus on that rather than something tearing down his franchise, figuring whatever the nominal cost was it couldn't compare to the value generated the season before. ... That SB win was probably worth 100-200 million + in team value, maybe substantially more than that. The fine is a drop in the bucket. The draft pick was much higher than he suspected.

 

He regrets his decision which was made at the time with the presumption that the NFL would be fair.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

Meanwhile...Andy P....just had his Yankees jersey retired.

I know. lol You'd think that he would be the blueprint for cheaters who get caught. But nope, they still revert to denying and lying.

[parrot 789]

 

Meanwhile...Andy P....just had his Yankees jersey retired.

 

Just like Brady will have his Patriots jersey retired.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

Just like Brady will have his Patriots jersey retired.

But Pettite is respected by all. Brady is respected by Patriot fans.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

Putting myself in Krafts shoes, he just won the SB, wants the focus on that rather than something tearing down his franchise, figuring whatever the nominal cost was it couldn't compare to the value generated the season before. ... That SB win was probably worth 100-200 million + in team value, maybe substantially more than that. The fine is a drop in the bucket. The draft pick was much higher than he suspected.

 

He regrets his decision which was made at the time with the presumption that the NFL would be fair.

He made the decision in May I believe? Long after the Super Bowl glow had subsided. My theory is that he took the hit for Belichecks sake, not Brady's. As part of the spygate settlement if BB gets caught again he's banned. My theory is that Goodell told him they are not looking at BB right now, so let's keep it that way. Don't you find it weird that BB, noted hands on freak, hasn't been dragged into this? I don't think Kraft counted on Brady fighting it all the way through, that he thought TB would take a slap on the wrist and get on with it.

[cbfalcon 825]

But Pettite is respected by all. Brady is respected by Patriot fans.

 

Newbie quotes:

"When you get rid of a cellphone, that's proof of guilt, even if nobody was ever going to ask to see your cellphone"

"Accepting punishment proves you are guilty, just as not accepting punishment proves you are guilty"

"I focking hate cheaters. But I love Chip Kelly because he cheated previously instead of now, and I respect the hell out of Andy Pettite for cheating and admitting it."

[IGotWorms 4,058]

OMG omg omg A Patriots fan thinks that someone defending Brady and the Pats is winning!!!! Someone alert the media!! ROFL

Three oh my gods. And a ROFL! Hard to argue with that