Montana Brady Manning

[KSB2424 3,083]

 

What did Brady do his last drive against the vaunted Broncos defense? lead his team to an amazing (what should have been game tying TD)

 

what did Newton do

 

I don't ever recall saying Cam Newton > Tom Brady. What does your post have to do with the price of tea in China?

[edjr 5,567]

 

I don't ever recall saying Cam Newton > Tom Brady. What does your post have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

who said you did?

 

Okay, what did Peyton Manning do his last drive against Denver? (2016)

[IGotWorms 3,315]

 

Brady's first Super was definitely good. he just didn't throw a lot and carry the team on his shoulders. But the passing game had yet to go bonkers like it is today. Defenses were still able to hit receivers. So, Brady's 86.2 quarterback rating in his first super bowl would have placed him sixth among league leaders in 2001 ahead of Peyton Manning that year. That same quarterback rating in 2015 would have him tied for 27th with Blaine Gabbert. 2001 and 2015 may not seem far apart but they are very far apart when it comes to the passing games. Brady's first Super Bowl performance was far better (not a tick better) than Manning's latest effort.

 

Manning's Passer Rating for Sundays game would have placed him dead last in the league this year by a big margin.

Excellent post

[Kopy 491]

From Pro Football Reference,never would've guessed Manning would be #1 in these categories of the three.

 

Montana....31 4th quarter comebacks,37 game winning drives

 

Brady.......37 4th quarter comebacks,48 game winning drives

 

Manning....45 4th quarter comebacks,56 game winning drives

Just out of curiosity, what were Elways numbers?

I always considered him to be the best comeback kid. But I never looked at any stats to see what he actually did do.

[tanatastic 2,061]

 

Brady's first Super should never have happened because the league cheated and invented the tuck rule, ask charles woodson or anyone really, it didnt exist before. he just didn't throw a lot and carry the team on his shoulders. But the passing game had yet to go bonkers like it is today. Defenses were still able to hit receivers. So, Brady's 86.2 quarterback rating in his first super bowl would have placed him sixth among league leaders in 2001 ahead of Peyton Manning that year. That same quarterback rating in 2015 would have him tied for 27th with Blaine Gabbert. 2001 and 2015 may not seem far apart but they are very far apart when it comes to the passing games. Brady's first Super Bowl performance was far better (not a tick better) than Manning's latest effort.

 

Manning's Passer Rating for Sundays game would have placed him dead last in the league this year by a big margin.

I agree with Worms, good post.

[nzoner 936]

Just out of curiosity, what were Elways numbers?

I always considered him to be the best comeback kid. But I never looked at any stats to see what he actually did do.

35 & 46

[IGotWorms 3,315]

I agree with Worms, good post.

Pretty weak, you're usually better than that

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Pretty weak, you're usually better than that

 

Since when?

[IGotWorms 3,315]

 

Since when?

I dunno, seems to me like he's usually willing to admit when he's been bested by another poster. But not this time

[tanatastic 2,061]

I dunno, seems to me like he's usually willing to admit when he's been bested by another poster. But not this time

Bested? It wasnt a contest or 1vs1 debate! I just added a troll with some snark to an exchange that I wasnt even involved in (you and thor). In a topic thats entirely subjective mind you (qb rank).

[Cruzer 1,992]

 

Brady's first Super was definitely good. he just didn't throw a lot and carry the team on his shoulders. But the passing game had yet to go bonkers like it is today.

The 5 Yard Contact Rule (rule prohibiting defenders from touching wrs after 5 yards) was in fact in force during Brady's 1st SB. Not only was that rule significant in boosting the passing game at that time - so was the rule allowing offensive lineman to extend their arms and use their hands in pass blocking. Brady played that SB with luxuries for sure that helped his cause.

[nzoner 936]

The 5 Yard Contact Rule (rule prohibiting defenders from touching wrs after 5 yards) was in fact in force during Brady's 1st SB. Not only was that rule significant in boosting the passing game at that time - so was the rule allowing offensive lineman to extend their arms and use their hands in pass blocking. Brady played that SB with luxuries for sure that helped his cause.

I'd think Manning and Brady also benefited from roughing the passer calls that wouldn't have been flagged in Montana's era.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

The 5 Yard Contact Rule (rule prohibiting defenders from touching wrs after 5 yards) was in fact in force during Brady's 1st SB. Not only was that rule significant in boosting the passing game at that time - so was the rule allowing offensive lineman to extend their arms and use their hands in pass blocking. Brady played that SB with luxuries for sure that helped his cause.

 

I think that, if you look back at the history of it, the 5 yard illegal contact rule was not enforced until after the Colts (Bill Polian, in particular), via the Competition Committee, instructed the refs to call that more closely. This was after a playoff game in which the Colts felt that the Patriots DB's were man-handling them at the line. The change happened before the 2004 season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=1771047&columnist=pasquarelli_len

 

The reality is that there was about a 10% jump in passing yards per game from 2003 to 2004 for the heavy pass teams.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-yards-per-game?date=2005-02-07

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

No kidding, Patriot Fans have replaced Cowboy fans as the most delusional. Unless you say the Pats and Brady are the greatest of all time, they will whine and cry and fight you the whole way. If you even dare say one of the best, it's not good enough for them. Thank God the Mannings have kept them in check.

[Cruzer 1,992]

 

I think that, if you look back at the history of it, the 5 yard illegal contact rule was not enforced until after the Colts (Bill Polian, in particular), via the Competition Committee, instructed the refs to call that more closely. This was after a playoff game in which the Colts felt that the Patriots DB's were man-handling them at the line. The change happened before the 2004 season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=1771047&columnist=pasquarelli_len

 

The reality is that there was about a 10% jump in passing yards per game from 2003 to 2004 for the heavy pass teams.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-yards-per-game?date=2005-02-07

Regardless - it was still there and called. The degrees of frequency may have increased with league encouragement - but it was still there and in play.

[Kanil 519]

MNF has it ranked #2 in MNF history,your Broncos may have lost but no denying it was a great contest.

 

Possibly the worst, imo. That game can die in a fire.

[nzoner 936]

 

Possibly the worst, imo. That game can die in a fire.

I was fortunate enough to be at that game with about 200 other KC fans,we had a GREAT time

[Kanil 519]

I was fortunate enough to be at that game with about 200 other KC fans,we had a GREAT time

 

I hope something bad happened to you afterwards. Nothing too bad, not like getting mugged but I hope something like you left your lights on and had to wait for a jump before you could leave the stadium.

[mighty_thor 115]

From Pro Football Reference,never would've guessed Manning would be #1 in these categories of the three.

 

Montana....31 4th quarter comebacks,37 game winning drives

 

Brady.......37 4th quarter comebacks,48 game winning drives

 

Manning....45 4th quarter comebacks,56 game winning drives

If you include playoffs and regular season:

 

Manning has 92 Career losses

Brady has 60 Career losses

 

So, Brady has failed to bring his team back in the 4th quarter less than Manning has.

 

or another way to look at it:

Brady had (60+37) 97 chances for a 4th quarter comeback and came through 38% of the time (37/97)

Manning had (45+92) 137 chances for a 4th quarter comeback and came through 33% of the time (45/137)

[Bier Meister 1,514]

the implication is that it's the game of your life, a must win at all costs- - if that means "regular season", then so be it but I'm leaning more towards a SuperBowl or playing for the Columbian National Soccer Team - wherever you can imagine the stakes are quite high.

 

 

 

Brady

 

I am not going to lie, I do not root for nor really like Tom Brady. But if the game is on the line and my team is playing him, I fear him most last couple minutes with the ball.

 

 

if i need 3 pts brady. if i need a td, joe.

[Bier Meister 1,514]

The 5 Yard Contact Rule (rule prohibiting defenders from touching wrs after 5 yards) was in fact in force during Brady's 1st SB. Not only was that rule significant in boosting the passing game at that time - so was the rule allowing offensive lineman to extend their arms and use their hands in pass blocking. Brady played that SB with luxuries for sure that helped his cause.

 

 

i seem to recall refs not enforcing that for NEP for several years (and more recently for SEA)

[mighty_thor 115]

Regardless - it was still there and called. The degrees of frequency may have increased with league encouragement - but it was still there and in play.

it was in effect since the mid '70's so it also helped Montana, Marino and Elway as much as Brady. The fact is that refs did not look for the call. They looked for pass interference and obvious holding but bumping receivers after 5 yards was for the most part ignored.

 

The point being that passer ratings in 2015 have increased league wide since 2001. In 2001 the average passer rating was 78.5 in 2015 it is 88.4.

[Cruzer 1,992]

They looked for pass interference and obvious holding but bumping receivers after 5 yards was for the most part ignored.

 

I agree - but to those thinking it was flat out ignored and not called is ignorant. It was - and indeed, it did help qb's. Brady was far from a 70's type qb sitting back there in the pocket as most Pats fans want you to believe.

[Thornton Melon 544]

it was in effect since the mid '70's so it also helped Montana, Marino and Elway as much as Brady. The fact is that refs did not look for the call. They looked for pass interference and obvious holding but bumping receivers after 5 yards was for the most part ignored.

 

The illegal contact rule was put in place in 1978, and flags were flying in the secondary the first couple of years of that rule. It seemed like half the pass plays back then ended up with a flag.

[Greedo 13]

Fun discussion. A couple other thoughts...

 

You misunderstand. I am not giving Brady extra credit for never being replaced. I get it.

What i am doing is pointing out how stupid it is for someone to hold it as a negative against Brady because he didn't ever have to win with multiple franchises, like Manning and Montana.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Kurt Warner has the 3 greatest QB performances in Super Bowl history, including with 2 different teams that he brought back from the dead. If you're going by Super Bowl performances, he's the best ever. Don't let win-loss records skew the analysis.

 

Don't forget that disastrous pick 6 on the goal line with AZ against the Steelers. I think AZ wins the game if not for this boneheaded play.

 

you know... I gotta' admit... I LOVE the Brady/Montana/Manning debate... thanks for coming back and posting KSB.

 

And... someday, people will be omitting Montana/Manning/Brady from the discussion simply b/c they never saw them play... there's gonna' be some old focks from this forearm losing their minds!

 

For example, none of us remember YA Tittle, Johnny U, or Sammy Baugh. In days where things weren't pass happy, look at the innovations they brought. What might these guys do with today's rules?

 

 

agreed. surprising.

 

Brings up the question then... If you had one football game to win, who do you take as your QB? I can see a debate made for either Montana or Brady - not so much Manning.

 

This is the key question, and is answerable without a 2nd thought. If I get to pick my QB to go win a game, I start with Montana. I don't think about it. There is no close 2nd.

[Mile High Drunk 13]

 

I think at this point you can put Peyton clearly at No.3 over Elway/Marino etc. It's hard to argue those two over Peyton Manning.

I will take what Elway did over Peyton. Elway won with some really mediocre teams and then got blown out in the Super Bowl, but some of those teams he lead to the SB had no business being there.

[MDC 5,892]

From Pro Football Reference,never would've guessed Manning would be #1 in these categories of the three.

 

Montana....31 4th quarter comebacks,37 game winning drives

 

Brady.......37 4th quarter comebacks,48 game winning drives

 

Manning....45 4th quarter comebacks,56 game winning drives

Manning is also 3-1 vs Brady in championship games and most importantly he didn't cheat.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Manning is also 3-1 vs Brady in championship games and most importantly he didn't cheat.

What do you reckon his wife needed HGH for? Tore a ligament during Pilates?

[tanatastic 2,061]

What do you reckon his wife needed HGH for? Tore a ligament during Pilates?

Yes, if it was HGH in the packages then of course he had the wife get them to hide it, thats obvious. Have we proof that it was hgh being delivered? If not then this is all fluff. If it was just a guy who had a cousin who knew a guy whos brothers aunts former roommate worked for the company that supplied hgh to people, this is a non story. Its actually a non story either way most likely, but for the sake of fairness.

[MDC 5,892]

What do you reckon his wife needed HGH for? Tore a ligament during Pilates?

We will never know since the story was never corroborated and the Broncos were never fined or docked draft picks.

 

All we know for sure is that the Pats championships *** will forever be covered in the dogsh1t stench of cheating.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

We will never know since the story was never corroborated and the Broncos were never fined or docked draft picks.

 

All we know for sure is that the Pats championships *** will forever be covered in the dogsh1t stench of cheating.

Because you all would rather spend 100x effort in ignoring the Ideal Gas Law than figuring out whether Peyton received some HGH.

 

We don't know, but the NFL will spend $8m on the former and $0 on the latter.

[drobeski 3,061]

Brady, the patriots and their fans, living rmff since 2001

 

Owning records and skulls across nation!

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

Brady, the patriots and their fans, living rmff since 2001

 

Owning records and skulls across nation!

Except for the Mannings 1-5 against them in the big games. Everyone has their kryptonite.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Except for the Mannings 1-5 against them in the big games. Everyone has their kryptonite.

The Mannings have a good record in Championship games, but are you including all playoff games (i.e. Win or go home) or just certain ones?

 

Are you including games in the regular season where the loss cost a team to not make the playoffs?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

The Mannings have a good record in Championship games, but are you including all playoff games (i.e. Win or go home) or just certain ones?

 

Are you including games in the regular season where the loss cost a team to not make the playoffs?

Forget it man. You're right, Brady, The Patriots, Belicheck, Boston Baked beans and the J Geils Band are the best ever. No question.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

We will never know since the story was never corroborated and the Broncos were never fined or docked draft picks.

 

All we know for sure is that the Pats championships *** will forever be covered in the dogsh1t stench of cheating.

"Never corroborated"? Peyton Manning admitted the Guyer Institue shipped drugs to his "wife"

[MDC 5,892]

"Never corroborated"? Peyton Manning admitted the Guyer Institue shipped drugs to his "wife"

Is it cheating for your wife to use HGH?

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Is it cheating for your wife to use HGH?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Forget it man. You're right, Brady, The Patriots, Belicheck, Boston Baked beans and the J Geils Band are the best ever. No question.

So, you have nothing. Got it.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Is it cheating for your wife to use HGH?

It may be perfectly fine. However, why is there not even a follow up on it? If Brady farts, the NFL hires 3 law firms to investigate. Manning gets HGH sent to his house and there is nothing but crickets. Just seems a little to me.