Keenan Allen v Brandon Marshall

[weepaws 2,512]

Will if age is a factor than how can you call Forte a more durable option over Ivory ?

 

I agree that Fitzpatrick had a carrier year and it's hard to see him doing that again , but it could happen again .

 

And it's hard to see Allen lasting a whole season since he has played in fewer games every one of his three seasons .

 

So it's all speculation.

 

I don't see Allen being the upside .

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

Will if age is a factor than how can you call Forte a more durable option over Ivory ?

 

I agree that Fitzpatrick had a carrier year and it's hard to see him doing that again , but it could happen again .

 

And it's hard to see Allen lasting a whole season since he has played in fewer games every one of his three seasons .

 

So it's all speculation.

 

I don't see Allen being the upside .

 

Forte and Ivory? Based on track record. Forte missed 7 games in 8 seasons. Chris Ivory has missed 26 games in 6 seasons. I think it's pretty obvious, no?

 

Absolutely Fitzpatrick could do it again, but the odds are against it.

 

With Allen, it's about why and how? http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2016/8/23/12590306/here-s-to-the-keenan-allen-hype-train

 

Excerpt:

"Allen got his big extension, then showed up and dominated from the get-go of this year’s training camp. So much so you gotta ask, what’s holding him back from being a Top 10, maybe even Top 5 receiver this year?

Nothing. That’s what.

The injury-prone label is misleading for a guy who has yet to celebrate his 25th birthday. He did have a major injury to his posterior cruciate ligament going into the draft, the real reason for his slide down the draft boards. But he really only missed two games in 2014 due to injury. His season ended last year due to a freak kidney laceration. There’s no evidence to confidently expect Allen to miss a significant amount of time in 2016 and man, is there a lot going for him."

[weepaws 2,512]

I asked if age is a big factor for you then how can you say Forte is more durable than Ivory going into this season.

 

You keep talking about how old Marshall is and how old Fitzpatrick is and how young Allen is .

 

So going into this season does the age matter factor into Forte being more durable then Ivory ? Or does it only pertain to Marshall and Fitzpatrick ?

[giraldi02 470]

I asked if age is a big factor for you then how can you say Forte is more durable than Ivory going into this season.

 

You keep talking about how old Marshall is and how old Fitzpatrick is and how young Allen is .

 

So going into this season does the age matter factor into Forte being more durable then Ivory ? Or does it only pertain to Marshall and Fitzpatrick ?

 

Other things factor into injury risk. Ivory is a violent runner that initiates contact with defenders. Forte doesn't take the same hits that he does. That is a big contributing factor for what he's saying. The style of play overcompensates for the age difference.

[weepaws 2,512]

Other things factor into injury risk. Ivory is a violent runner that initiates contact with defenders. Forte doesn't take the same hits that he does. That is a big contributing factor for what he's saying. The style of play overcompensates for the age difference.

Agree with you , and that goes for all players .

 

But the person I was posted to likes to bring up age when making their point about two other players .

 

So I'm asking that person why does that not pertain to all players even Forte.

[GornFishin' 57]

What is it with the (numerous) people on this thread who have stated that Allen has only had half a productive season.

 

2013 - 15 games 71 rec 1171 yds 8 TDS.- and could have nabbed OROY.

 

I don't have a dog in the fight, but let's get our facts right shall we.

 

24yo with majority of missed time due to a very improbable injury. Has a top tier QB on a pass heavy team. Stevie Johnson removed from target equation.Arguably Travis Benjamin is going to help open up the middle of the field.

 

Huge upside.

[CornKobb 48]

I don't know what it is but I have a gut feeling Brandon Marshall will come down to a 80 catch 1100 7td season. still good but don't see him repeating last years numbers.

 

I have nothing to back this up, heck maybe its because i had him two years ago in his injury plagued season where he sprained his ankle week 1 and limped through the first 5-6 games then in the 1st round of playoffs took a wicked shot to the back and was out for the season week 14.

 

keenan allen intrigues me with ppr leagues.

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

I asked if age is a big factor for you then how can you say Forte is more durable than Ivory going into this season.

 

You keep talking about how old Marshall is and how old Fitzpatrick is and how young Allen is .

 

So going into this season does the age matter factor into Forte being more durable then Ivory ? Or does it only pertain to Marshall and Fitzpatrick ?

 

The difference is that Forte is only 3 years older than Ivory and 10 times the player. Marshall is 8 years older than Allen, and the talent difference is minimal. Rivers is as older than Fitzpatrick, but Rivers is 10 times better too. Age is an issue when talent is similar... not when there's extremes.

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

What is it with the (numerous) people on this thread who have stated that Allen has only had half a productive season.

 

2013 - 15 games 71 rec 1171 yds 8 TDS.- and could have nabbed OROY.

 

I don't have a dog in the fight, but let's get our facts right shall we.

 

24yo with majority of missed time due to a very improbable injury. Has a top tier QB on a pass heavy team. Stevie Johnson removed from target equation.Arguably Travis Benjamin is going to help open up the middle of the field.

 

Huge upside.

 

 

I don't know what it is but I have a gut feeling Brandon Marshall will come down to a 80 catch 1100 7td season. still good but don't see him repeating last years numbers.

 

I have nothing to back this up, heck maybe its because i had him two years ago in his injury plagued season where he sprained his ankle week 1 and limped through the first 5-6 games then in the 1st round of playoffs took a wicked shot to the back and was out for the season week 14.

 

keenan allen intrigues me with ppr leagues.

 

Exactly!

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

 

The difference is that Forte is only 3 years older than Ivory and 10 times the player. Marshall is 8 years older than Allen, and the talent difference is minimal. Rivers is as older than Fitzpatrick, but Rivers is 10 times better too. Age is an issue when talent is similar... not when there's extremes.

Why is the talent difference minimal? I have seen Marshall own corners for years. Allen had a crap let down sophomore season, followed by a season where he was targeted about 20 times per game. I think Marshall >>>>>>>> Allen as far as talent. Any receiver that gets that many targets is going to produce good catch totals. It would have been nice if Allen could have done better than 10.8 ypc and an 8 TD pace. Just really crappy efficiency for how many catches he had. A more talented receiver would have been a stat monster besides the catches.

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

Why is the talent difference minimal? I have seen Marshall own corners for years. Allen had a crap let down sophomore season, followed by a season where he was targeted about 20 times per game. I think Marshall >>>>>>>> Allen as far as talent. Any receiver that gets that many targets is going to produce good catch totals. It would have been nice if Allen could have done better than 10.8 ypc and an 8 TD pace. Just really crappy efficiency for how many catches he had. A more talented receiver would have been a stat monster besides the catches.

 

That's your opinion... it's not fact.

[Little Big Head 6]

 

That's your opinion... it's not fact.

When someone writes " I think...." That means it's their opinion. Not sure why you felt the need to state the obvious

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

 

That's your opinion... it's not fact.

No its fact. Compare their careers. Look how much more Marshall does with his catches. Allen is a solid receiver getting a ton of targets, that's all. So yeah not sure how you can call facts an opinion.

 

Walter Payton >>>> Marshawn Lynch

 

It's not an opinion, it's fact.

[listen2me 23 1,576]

Go look at Marshall's stats on his career. Go find a more consistant guy.

 

Allen was on fire for half a year sure. He had some awful games as well.

 

Marshall is a monster. Marshall all day long.

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

When someone writes " I think...." That means it's their opinion. Not sure why you felt the need to state the obvious

In general, yes... but I knew that's not what he meant, and proved it. LOL

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

No its fact. Compare their careers. Look how much more Marshall does with his catches. Allen is a solid receiver getting a ton of targets, that's all. So yeah not sure how you can call facts an opinion.

Walter Payton >>>> Marshawn Lynch

It's not an opinion, it's fact.

Marshall WAS a better receiver... to say he IS, is an opinion not shared by all. Clearly, there are rankings out there that are ranking Allen higher than Marshall as well as others on this board meaning, I'm not on some kind of island that you seem to be implying that I'm on.

[the spanker 28]

Marshall WAS a better receiver... to say he IS, is an opinion not shared by all. Clearly, there are rankings out there that are ranking Allen higher than Marshall as well as others on this board meaning, I'm not on some kind of island that you seem to be implying that I'm on.

 

There are expert rankings out there projecting Marshall is the better player this year too you know.

 

I like Allen, don't get me wrong but Marshall's body of work over the years tells me not to bet against him (He is a BEAST) while Allen hasn't finished an entire season yet I believe.

 

I tell you, Marshall even bet Antonio Brown he would have a better season this year. So he has even added motivation to produce this year.

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

There are expert rankings out there projecting Marshall is the better player this year too you know.

 

I like Allen, don't get me wrong but Marshall's body of work over the years tells me not to bet against him (He is a BEAST) while Allen hasn't finished an entire season yet I believe.

 

I tell you, Marshall even bet Antonio Brown he would have a better season this year. So he has even added motivation to produce this year.

Yeah.... and?

[jimaveli 119]

It's close but give me Allen. Age. In-shape. Consistency of situation. Yikes...san Diego? More consistent? Yeah yeah...I think so.

 

Marshall's name and star history is strong. I say 'if he's alive, he's top 5'. I do not love that his qb showed up late after basically losing a money dispute and agreeing to be a 1-year thing for the Jets.

 

Allen is the shiny and new thing methinks. He's Julio before last year without the Megatron-like upside. Aka Everyone keeps hoping to be in on the season where it comes together for Allen.

 

The problem with both guys is the price. If you're picking on the back end, you are at risk of having to take either guy in the first to ensure you get them. I see both as no-brainers in the 2nd if there's no rb you love at your spot.

 

I see Allen as the more safe one based on me hating on Brandon's age, mileage, and interception machine qb.

 

Allen had a lost 2nd season due to Cheetos. Last year, he had a freak injury derail a super season but now he is back and in-shape again, so I buy it. Marshall is in-shape as well with Chan and Fitz in tow, so again...it might be close assuming they both play all year. But Marshall hasn't been without rando injuries either, so it's not like he can't go down too. And he's older. I know. It's terrible to hate on him for his age, but hey. We're splitting hairs between two top 10 wrs here...you've gotta use the info you have to make a guess.

[the spanker 28]

Yeah.... and?

 

Obviously it shows his level of confidence.

 

Brandon Marshall's track record speaks for itself. Excluding his rookie year where he started just 1 game, he has 8/9 seasons with at least 80rec,1000yards, 6TDs. The one season he didn't he was injured. At least 100receptions 6x (NFL record) and 10TDs 4x. Oh, and lets not forget all the HOF QBs he has played with in his career (Jake Plummer, Jay Cutler, Patrick Ramsey, Kyle Orton, Chris Simms, Chad Henne, Tyler Thigpen, Chad Pennington, Matt Moore, J.P. Losman, Jason Campbell, Josh McCown and Jimmy Clausen).

This dudes a stud. He's played with human trash at QB the majority of his career and still shows up big time. Marshall may not be a sexy pick like some of the other WR available but he's money.

[jimaveli 119]

Chad Pennington is a national treasure of noodle armed qbs dag nabbit!

 

With Marshall, I'm also in fear of a dispute that hurts him with his team. There's not much fire with that smoke though...dude puts up numbers. Almost every year.

 

There's IS the Fitz issue. I can't get over that situation. He's not above going completely off a cliff even when things are going well, he came in late after taking a stand m, and the organization hasn't shown him much love or commitment. 12 million in 2016 barely non-rookie deal starter $. Maybe I'm just too close to draft time and I'm creating warts.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

 

Your mixing the order. Marshall never had back to back 1500 yard seasons. Asking him to do that is asking a lot. That number is what I think Allen's ceiling is. He was one pace for 1450 last year (and that's with getting hurt just before half time of a game where he already had 5 for 35 and a touchdown. Last year he was on pace for 134/1450/8. Thinking his ceiling is 120/1500/14 is hardly dreaming. You want to say 10 TD's is more reasonable than 14, ok, I'll concede to that, but it's still higher than what I think Marshall will get. Don't really know what else I was dreaming on... I think I've been quite reasonable.

 

Only elite WR can MAINTAIN that pace but even most would tail off towards the end. Its a 16 game season of contact NFL football lol. Bodies wear down towards the end. So yes, to assume that he can ECLIPSE the numbers he was on pace for last year is certainly dreaming lol

[LoOnAtIk 75]

 

 

 

 

Excerpt:

"Allen got his big extension, then showed up and dominated from the get-go of this year’s training camp. So much so you gotta ask, what’s holding him back from being a Top 10, maybe even Top 5 receiver this year?

Nothing. That’s what.

 

Lets see, Keenan Allen does his practice reps vs Brandon Flowers (I'm assuming), whereas Marshall gets his practice reps vs....

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

 

Obviously it shows his level of confidence.

 

Brandon Marshall's track record speaks for itself. Excluding his rookie year where he started just 1 game, he has 8/9 seasons with at least 80rec,1000yards, 6TDs. The one season he didn't he was injured. At least 100receptions 6x (NFL record) and 10TDs 4x. Oh, and lets not forget all the HOF QBs he has played with in his career (Jake Plummer, Jay Cutler, Patrick Ramsey, Kyle Orton, Chris Simms, Chad Henne, Tyler Thigpen, Chad Pennington, Matt Moore, J.P. Losman, Jason Campbell, Josh McCown and Jimmy Clausen).

This dudes a stud. He's played with human trash at QB the majority of his career and still shows up big time. Marshall may not be a sexy pick like some of the other WR available but he's money.

 

LOL... no one is making the argument that Marshall stinks or will stink. No one is saying that Marshall isn't worth a high pick. My initial comments were that between the two, the safe pick is Marshall, the "upside" pick would be Allen. When people questioned me on it, I posted reasons. I never once said I thought Marshall would be a bust. Nor did I imply that anywhere.

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

 

Only elite WR can MAINTAIN that pace but even most would tail off towards the end. Its a 16 game season of contact NFL football lol. Bodies wear down towards the end. So yes, to assume that he can ECLIPSE the numbers he was on pace for last year is certainly dreaming lol

 

If you believe that Allen has the chance to be an elite WR, then your point is moot.

[CornKobb 48]

is Marshall's Hip giving him issues again. note i said again.

 

Allen had a ball hit him right in the chest then got intercepted. He was targeted by rivers several times yesterday so not worried.

 

Im torn between Gronk, Allen, Dez, and Marshall at 2:6 ppr we start 3wr or tight ends. no specified tight end position. its killing me. David Johnson is my keeper. argghhhhh

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

is Marshall's Hip giving him issues again. note i said again.

 

Allen had a ball hit him right in the chest then got intercepted. He was targeted by rivers several times yesterday so not worried.

 

Im torn between Gronk, Allen, Dez, and Marshall at 2:6 ppr we start 3wr or tight ends. no specified tight end position. its killing me. David Johnson is my keeper. argghhhhh

 

It would be either Allen or Marshall for me. Can't really go wrong with either.

[American Chewy 98]

Is there really an age wrs definitively decline?

[tanatastic 2,061]

Is there really an age wrs definitively decline?

Its around 33-34 to me.

[DrG 94]

Receivers peak at 26-27. The few who establish longevity are able to play a high level into their early 30s. Brandon Marshall is a classic example. Anquan Boldin might be another.

 

If AZ does move Fitzgerald into the slot, it could lengthen his career/productivity.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Receivers peak at 26-27. The few who establish longevity are able to play a high level into their early 30s. Brandon Marshall is a classic example. Anquan Boldin might be another.

 

If AZ does move Fitzgerald into the slot, it could lengthen his career/productivity.

They already did move him into the slot. Also, doesn't the slot guy take more hits from LBs typically?

[LoOnAtIk 75]

 

If you believe that Allen has the chance to be an elite WR, then your point is moot.

 

I don't think my point is moot at all. Even if you think he's elite, you're asking for way too many "ifs" to occur. Marshall is elite and a proven commodity. Marshall has much higher floor and the ceiling for both, in terms of this year, has to be relatively close. That's why I would never take Keenan over Marshall for redraft, especially PPR.

[xenon 2]

So as Mike Evans appears to be creeping higher a few slots in drafts, how might any of you factor him into this debate say in PPR league?

[da_mane_man 1]

I'm going with Allen, although you can't really go wrong with either.

 

The age is a factor, but also the defenses. The chargers are bad on D and are going to be playing catch-up a lot. The jets are pretty good on D and they also have forte who is going to factor into the passing game now, as well as Decker still being there. Marshall is 32 and has to start slowing down eventually. Not saying it's going to happen this year, but if you've got 2 guys that are so close, you've got to use something to differentiate.

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

 

I don't think my point is moot at all. Even if you think he's elite, you're asking for way too many "ifs" to occur. Marshall is elite and a proven commodity. Marshall has much higher floor and the ceiling for both, in terms of this year, has to be relatively close. That's why I would never take Keenan over Marshall for redraft, especially PPR.

 

Too many "if's"? Like what? Marshall is a great receiver, and (aside from his rookie season), he averages 95/1200/9 per season. So, projecting 90/1100/9 is not in any way an "if", it's a reasonable prediction. That's also not counting his age against him, nor his 33 year old QB's career year at 32.

 

Keenan's 16 game projected season is 96/1100/7. At age 24 and career on the rise with a team that struggles to run the ball but is very adept at passing, and will be throwing a lot because they'll be losing a lot because they're defense isn't very good, I don't see why an upside prediction of 120 / 1400 / 10 is unrealistic. Heck, this website is projecting 115/1380/8.

 

What are the too many "if's"? What, "if" Keenan Allen stay's healthy? Ok, fine, even if I give you that one... that's ONE! Where's the rest?

[TBayXXXVII 2,197]

So as Mike Evans appears to be creeping higher a few slots in drafts, how might any of you factor him into this debate say in PPR league?

 

He's in the mix, but he lacks consistent concentration. His talent put's him #1, but his performance puts him #3. Until he put's it all together, he belongs at #3.

[CornKobb 48]

 

Too many "if's"? Like what? Marshall is a great receiver, and (aside from his rookie season), he averages 95/1200/9 per season. So, projecting 90/1100/9 is not in any way an "if", it's a reasonable prediction. That's also not counting his age against him, nor his 33 year old QB's career year at 32.

 

Keenan's 16 game projected season is 96/1100/7. At age 24 and career on the rise with a team that struggles to run the ball but is very adept at passing, and will be throwing a lot because they'll be losing a lot because they're defense isn't very good, I don't see why an upside prediction of 120 / 1400 / 10 is unrealistic. Heck, this website is projecting 115/1380/8.

 

What are the too many "if's"? What, "if" Keenan Allen stay's healthy? Ok, fine, even if I give you that one... that's ONE! Where's the rest?

I have to agree. for some reason i really see BMarshall coming back down this year. Forte will catch a ton of balls not to mention decker

[IMMensaMind 460]

I think this is the year that SD gets more balance on offense. Melvin Gordon's ascension will result in fewer passes, and I think that gives the edge to Marshall.

 

Marshall has a bet with AB this year, and I'm pretty sure that - even though it's only a high-end Porsche - Marshall doesn't want to lose that bet to Brown.

 

Give me Marshall, for the reliability alone.

[CornKobb 48]

I think this is the year that SD gets more balance on offense. Melvin Gordon's ascension will result in fewer passes, and I think that gives the edge to Marshall.

 

Marshall has a bet with AB this year, and I'm pretty sure that - even though it's only a high-end Porsche - Marshall doesn't want to lose that bet to Brown.

 

Give me Marshall, for the reliability alone.

gosh mensa that is hard to disagree with and didn't know about the bet. I guess my view of him is skewed. At 32 he's scares me. I had him couple years ago when he was walking wounded. first week sprained ankle and was very limited first 5 weeks then broke rib on back in first round of playoffs.

 

i will give it to him, he did his best to suit up each week

[LoOnAtIk 75]

 

Too many "if's"? Like what? Marshall is a great receiver, and (aside from his rookie season), he averages 95/1200/9 per season. So, projecting 90/1100/9 is not in any way an "if", it's a reasonable prediction. That's also not counting his age against him, nor his 33 year old QB's career year at 32.

 

Keenan's 16 game projected season is 96/1100/7. At age 24 and career on the rise with a team that struggles to run the ball but is very adept at passing, and will be throwing a lot because they'll be losing a lot because they're defense isn't very good, I don't see why an upside prediction of 120 / 1400 / 10 is unrealistic. Heck, this website is projecting 115/1380/8.

 

What are the too many "if's"? What, "if" Keenan Allen stay's healthy? Ok, fine, even if I give you that one... that's ONE! Where's the rest?

I'll say it again, floor vs ceiling. I love both WR and I'm happy to have either on my team but if I had to choose I would take Marshall in redraft. His floor for a WR in PPR is almost as high as they come. The ceiling for Keenan might be a little higher but not high enough to draft over the reliability of Marshall.