Still think they aren't protesting military?

[jerryskids 5,206]

The funniest thing to me is how people want forced nationalism, which in turn does more to limit the first amendment than anything I ve ever seen done by anyone to limit the second amendment.

 

I think this is a great point, let me address. I think that people should be able to protest, and I think that in the giant scheme of protests, kneeling is about as respectful a protest as one can do.

 

I also have no problem with the kneeling at the football games this past weekend, as that was against Trump's comments and IMO that was very inappropriate for a POTUS.

 

That all being said, if that picture is true, I'd like to hear what his valid reason for kneeling is. Because my sense is that he doesn't have one, and I think it that while we shouldn't have forced nationalism, we should default to it unless somebody has a good reason to the contrary.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

You and your bigoted ilk are losing their sh!t because people kneel during the anthem. You clowns are the epitome of nit pickers

 

Those guys are free to follow the rules of their employment (which states they stand) or find another job. Bigotry has nothing to do with it because if whites do it, I want them sh!tcanned too.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I think this is a great point, let me address. I think that people should be able to protest, and I think that in the giant scheme of protests, kneeling is about as respectful a protest as one can do.

 

I also have no problem with the kneeling at the football games this past weekend, as that was against Trump's comments and IMO that was very inappropriate for a POTUS.

 

That all being said, if that picture is true, I'd like to hear what his valid reason for kneeling is. Because my sense is that he doesn't have one, and I think it that while we shouldn't have forced nationalism, we should default to it unless somebody has a good reason to the contrary.

This is a reasonable post - not the sky is falling!, our country is falling apart, kill the NFL and the protesters, etc.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

Standing there and being quiet is considered "forced nationilsm"? Wow giraldi, you have some context issues.

[giraldi02 470]

 

Those guys are free to follow the rules of their employment (which states they stand) or find another job. Bigotry has nothing to do with it because if whites do it, I want them sh!tcanned too.

There is no defined rule that says that an NFL player must stand or lose their job. None. Zero. Zilch.

 

It's recommended. Not mandatory. The difference is significant.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/nfl/news/colin-kaepernick-nfl-owners-meetings-national-anthem-protests-49ers-trump-troy-vincent/1t06bkszirs0r1pk357i2kbn90?utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=amp&utm_source=www.kansascity.com-RelayMediaAMP

[mobb_deep 917]

nah, bro.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

There is no defined rule that says that an NFL player must stand or lose their job. None. Zero. Zilch.

 

It's recommended. Not mandatory. The difference is significant.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/nfl/news/colin-kaepernick-nfl-owners-meetings-national-anthem-protests-49ers-trump-troy-vincent/1t06bkszirs0r1pk357i2kbn90?utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=amp&utm_source=www.kansascity.com-RelayMediaAMP

 

In the Game Operations Manual there's this:

 

“The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

“During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”

 

The league acknowledges by the bolded red part that standing for the anthem is indeed showing respect for the flag and our country.

 

While you think it's voluntary, it's actually mandatory per the Operations Manual.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

 

In the Game Operations Manual there's this:

 

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

 

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

 

The league acknowledges by the bolded red part that standing for the anthem is indeed showing respect for the flag and our country.

 

While you think it's voluntary, it's actually mandatory per the Operations Manual.

Giraldi lost this thread. Good work FF

[Voltaire 4,559]

Barry sanders??

No. Very extremely, no

 

Barry Sanders never ever knelt for the flag.

 

Kindly leave Barry Sanders' name out of this thread.

 

I know you don't care about this, and that grates sadly, me but don't drag Barry Sanders into the gutter with you.

[giraldi02 470]

 

In the Game Operations Manual there's this:

 

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

 

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

 

The league acknowledges by the bolded red part that standing for the anthem is indeed showing respect for the flag and our country.

 

While you think it's voluntary, it's actually mandatory per the Operations Manual.

Troy Vincent works for the league dude. He said it isn't mandatory in the article I posted. It's not in the NFL rulebook. Tberes plenty of articles discussing what the verbiage means.

 

http://operations.nfl.com/media/2646/2017-playing-rules.pdf

 

Should is not must. You people keep acting like you know the rules of these private businesses when you don't know a thing.

 

Guess who's word I'm going to take on whether or not a player can get fired for it. The owners. The commissioner. The league representatives. They've all reached a conclusion you're unable to:

 

Players can kneel during the anthem and they won't be fired for it.

 

By all means, keep running around preaching to the heavens about how they can. Wake me up when the league they play for says otherwise.

[giraldi02 470]

Giraldi lost this thread. Good work FF

You've been banished from this forum more times just in the last 6 months than an NFL player has been, or ever will be, fired for kneeling during the anthem. Sad!

[Voltaire 4,559]

You and your bigoted ilk are losing their sh!t because people kneel during the anthem. You clowns are the epitome of nit pickers

Meanwhile you and your disrespectful ilk had your jaw on the floor in shock wondering how it was possible so many people would be disgusted by kneelers, rioters, and cop-bashers that they would turn out to vote for an idiot like Trump in such numbers that he would actually win the election.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Troy Vincent works for the league dude. He said it isn't mandatory in the article I posted. It's not in the NFL rulebook. Tberes plenty of articles discussing what the verbiage means.

 

http://operations.nfl.com/media/2646/2017-playing-rules.pdf

 

Should is not must. You people keep acting like you know the rules of these private businesses when you don't know a thing.

 

Guess who's word I'm going to take on whether or not a player can get fired for it. The owners. The commissioner. The league representatives. They've all reached a conclusion you're unable to:

 

Players can kneel during the anthem and they won't be fired for it.

 

By all means, keep running around preaching to the heavens about how they can. Wake me up when the league they play for says otherwise.

 

So the link and information I posted isn't true? It certainly is in one of their manuals and uses the word 'MUST' in regard to it as I bolded those parts in my post. Whether or not it's enforced is another matter but it's clear you're misinformed. Sorry it doesn't fit with whatever agenda you have but you're wrong. Period.

 

And perception is a concern based upon that same link I posted. There's a lot of blacks in the NFL but the majority of the paying ticket holders, fans, etc are white. It's clear Troy Vincent and those supporting the violation of the Operations Rule regarding the Anthem have underestimated the impact of their actions. Now the NFL is already backpeddling hence the Packers/Bears ALL standing for the Anthem. Damage control in full throttle as ticket sales are down 30+%. Millions are being lost.

[Voltaire 4,559]

Yea I just looked real fast. Didn't see a dress code for anything but a wreath laying ceremony and I don't believe that was one. So the people there were fine dressed as they were. What infuriates me is that whether he knows it or not he's disrespecting soldiers (black, white, Asian, Indian, Spanish, etc) who fought and died to not only give him freedom but also the rest of the world freedom (WWl and WW2). TAPs is played to honor those fallen soldiers. I heard it every night in basic training, every night in tech school, and every night I was on base at 2100. Was taught to think about those who sacrificed themselves during that time and have done so every time I've heard TAPs. I'm not offended by much but something like that DOES offend me and the left (as well as some people here) think I'm not supposed to be offended by anything at all which is stupid. There's a difference between being offended by every single little thing you don't agree with and then being offended by a select few things

What offends them doesn't offend us and what offends us doesn't offend them.

 

I seethe in rage over this stuff. But no, I'm getting an earful of lecturing in the media about how I shouldn't be.

 

On the other hand, take gay rights, dirty jokes, alleged police brutality, safe spaces, white privledge, Washington Redskins name, fake PC nonsense ... a lot of lies and bullsh*t. I couldn't care less but that's what the media tells me I'm supposed to be offended by.

 

┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐

[giraldi02 470]

Meanwhile you and your disrespectful ilk had your jaw on the floor in shock wondering how it was possible so many people would be disgusted by kneelers, rioters, and cop-bashers that they would turn out to vote for an idiot like Trump in such numbers that he would actually win the election.

You might want to use the search button on these forums.

 

You'll find out real quickly I believed Trump could win and that HRC was a piece of garbage. But nice try.

[giraldi02 470]

 

So the link and information I posted isn't true? It certainly is in one of their manuals and uses the word 'MUST' in regard to it as I bolded those parts in my post. Whether or not it's enforced is another matter but it's clear you're misinformed. Sorry it doesn't fit with whatever agenda you have but you're wrong. Period.

"The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem."

 

 

Find me the "must" that states one damn thing about standing. Because without that, YOUR agenda is a bunch of empty rhetoric that carries zero weight.

[Voltaire 4,559]

You might want to use the search button on these forums.

 

You'll find out real quickly I believed Trump could win and that HRC was a piece of garbage. But nice try.

Sorry.

 

Actually I don't remember you saying those things.

 

I just get really really p*ssed off on this topic.

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

What offends them doesn't offend us and what offends us doesn't offend them.

 

I seethe in rage over this stuff. But no, I'm getting an earful of lecturing in the media about how I shouldn't be.

 

On the other hand, take gay rights, dirty jokes, alleged police brutality, safe spaces, white privledge, Washington Redskins name, fake PC nonsense ... a lot of lies and bullsh*t. I couldn't care less but that's what the media tells me I'm supposed to be offended by.

 

┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐

 

No matter which side of social issues you fall on you should not get offended by the other side. Social issues are generally opinions and people have their own opinions on how they want to live life. The people with the strongest beliefs on each side of the spectrum are the ones that annoy other people, just look at the Anti-Fascists and the Westboro baptist church. They are the perfect example of the two extremes on the left and the right.

 

While their behavior is generally not good it does not make me mad because neither of them affect my life. They are both peons in the big picture.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,584]

If we didn't learn anything from Vietnam then I don't know what's wrong with this country. You should NEVER I mean absolutely NEVER protest the military. These men go thru enough and put their lives on the line

 

Protest a war protest the government putting men into those situations. But again neve protest the military itself

[fandandy 3,311]

You and your bigoted ilk are losing their sh!t because people kneel during the anthem. You clowns are the epitome of nit pickers

The majority of this country are opposed to this. This mindset though is beneficial to us and I pray that's the left's gameplan going in to 2018. Call the majority bigots and deplorables and let's see how it plays out. It didn't work so well for you last time, but hey, maybe the second time's the charm.

[Voltaire 4,559]

 

No matter which side of social issues you fall on you should not get offended by the other side. Social issues are generally opinions and people have their own opinions on how they want to live life. The people with the strongest beliefs on each side of the spectrum are the ones that annoy other people, just look at the Anti-Fascists and the Westboro baptist church. They are the perfect example of the two extremes on the left and the right.

 

While their behavior is generally not good it does not make me mad because neither of them affect my life. They are both peons in the big picture.

I know I've been out of the country and I've missed out on a lot of the things going on (in many ways I'm in a cultural bubble circa 2001) but this lack of respect and decency is proving to be quite the shock. I know all this other junk is seeping in, I'm not that oblivious, and that's bad enough. But this overwhelming sucking Kaperiick's c0ck for kneeling for the flag is so totally beyond the Pale. It has caught me totally by surprise and It's hugely disappointing and depressing.

 

Patriotism is out, cop-bashing is in. God help us.

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

I know I've been out of the country and I've missed out on a lot of the things going on (in many ways I'm in a cultural bubble circa 2001) but this lack of respect and decency is proving to be quite the shock. I know all this other junk is seeping in, I'm not that oblivious, and that's bad enough. But this overwhelming sucking Kaperiick's c0ck for kneeling for the flag is so totally beyond the Pale. It has caught me totally by surprise and It's hugely disappointing and depressing.

 

Patriotism is out, cop-bashing is in. God help us.

 

Kaepernick sat the first week in 2016, he did not even kneel.

 

I think he was pouting because he was not the starter and had to come up with an excuse after the fact. I think this whole kneeling thing started because Kaepernick was benched for Blaine Gabbert.

 

And pm sent.

[giraldi02 470]

The majority of this country are opposed to this. This mindset though is beneficial to us and I pray that's the left's gameplan going in to 2018. Call the majority bigots and deplorables and let's see how it plays out. It didn't work so well for you last time, but hey, maybe the second time's the charm.

Link to where the majority of Americans are opposed to this.

 

Oh wait...please tell me you're going to post the link to a poll. I didn't realize that those were allowed to be trusted again. Particularly after the criticism I heard about them back in November.

[wiffleball 4,640]

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

 

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition.

 

It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country.

 

Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

This actually isn't in the official rulebook. So I'm not sure which Facebook post you got it from. But it's actually from a separate handout that you can't even find online. But you're right, that's what's been written. However, the commissioner has overruled at.

[fandandy 3,311]

Link to where the majority of Americans are opposed to this.

 

Oh wait...please tell me you're going to post the link to a poll. I didn't realize that those were allowed to be trusted again. Particularly after the criticism I heard about them back in November.

Close to 60% opposed I think is what I read. I'm busy researching snow plows currently but you could dust off your old googler and find it I'm sure.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

This actually isn't in the official rulebook. So I'm not sure which Facebook post you got it from. But it's actually from a separate handout that you can't even find online. But you're right, that's what's been written. However, the commissioner has overruled at.

 

I don't do facebook Giants Fan and I never said it was in the rule book.

 

I was wrong to say it was mandatory to stand. It's mandatory they be on the field during it and they 'should' stand. Should implies an obligation and when you fail to meet an employer's 'obligation' you face consequences. When my boss tells me 'You should' do something, I typically view that as mandatory as part of my employment.

 

The NFL is trying desperately to appease these clowns while trying to get a tourniquet around the bleeding of cash due to the boycott. It's going to have to choose soon.

 

The NBA has reportedly requested that teams stand for the Anthem. It's a good bet a similar request has gone out NFL wide.

[penultimatestraw 473]

What offends them doesn't offend us and what offends us doesn't offend them.

 

I seethe in rage over this stuff. But no, I'm getting an earful of lecturing in the media about how I shouldn't be.

 

On the other hand, take gay rights, dirty jokes, alleged police brutality, safe spaces, white privledge, Washington Redskins name, fake PC nonsense ... a lot of lies and bullsh*t. I couldn't care less but that's what the media tells me I'm supposed to be offended by.

 

┌∩┐[/size]([/size]◕_◕[/size])[/size]┌∩┐[/size]

Not worth raging over this stuff. You keep showing respect in an appropriate manner, kiss your wife and kids and consider taking a break from politics. And sports.

[Voltaire 4,559]

Not worth raging over this stuff. You keep showing respect in an appropriate manner, kiss your wife and kids and consider taking a break from politics. And sports.

I nurse myself with a bunch of Toby Keith and Lee Greenwood videos.

[vuduchile 1,941]

We're no longer able to have disagreements without anger.

 

Everyone is conditioned to fly off the handle at the slightest provocation or perceived injustice and take things to the extreme.

 

If you disagree with these protests, you're racist and divisive.

 

If you don't stand up for them, you're an unpatriotic black panther commie bastage.

[supermike80 1,285]

No. Very extremely, no

 

Barry Sanders never ever knelt for the flag.

 

Kindly leave Barry Sanders' name out of this thread.

 

I know you don't care about this, and that grates sadly, me but don't drag Barry Sanders into the gutter with you.

It was kind of a joke. The only person I know that is only referred to as Barry

Is Barry Sanders

[Saint Elistan 106]

The woman who took the photo, herself, stated that he was filming. For all we know he was just getting a better angle. It's a violation of the requested conduct of the ceremony, sure, but nobody except for the person in question could tell you if there was any further meaning to the kneeling. Even if he was, it's not like he's going Full Westboro here. And this wouldn't even be a story if he was White.

 

Saw a quote today that really hits the nail on the head for our current state of affairs...

 

Racism is so American that when we protest racism, the average American assumes we're protesting America.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,584]

The woman who took the photo, herself, stated that he was filming. For all we know he was just getting a better angle. It's a violation of the requested conduct of the ceremony, sure, but nobody except for the person in question could tell you if there was any further meaning to the kneeling. Even if he was, it's not like he's going Full Westboro here. And this wouldn't even be a story if he was White.

 

Saw a quote today that really hits the nail on the head for our current state of affairs...

 

Racism is so American that when we protest racism, the average American assumes we're protesting America.

 

that is one of the dumbest statements I have seen

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

The woman who took the photo, herself, stated that he was filming. For all we know he was just getting a better angle. It's a violation of the requested conduct of the ceremony, sure, but nobody except for the person in question could tell you if there was any further meaning to the kneeling. Even if he was, it's not like he's going Full Westboro here. And this wouldn't even be a story if he was White.

 

Saw a quote today that really hits the nail on the head for our current state of affairs...

 

Racism is so American that when we protest racism, the average American assumes we're protesting America.

Stupid

[wiffleball 4,640]

Racism is so American that when we protest racism, the average American assumes we're protesting America.

You could say the same thing about being un justifiably butthurt.

[wiffleball 4,640]

Like I said before, those people who are claiming that they have a right to protest typically Apparently don't believe that other people have a right not to protest.

 

F*** you and your cause. Maybe my cause is more important to me? Or, maybe I don't feel like protesting at all. That's my right. F*** you. It doesn't make me less of a teammate because I'm not playing along with your political racist b*******.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I nurse myself with a bunch of Toby Keith and Lee Greenwood videos.

Now I'm offended.

[penultimatestraw 473]

We're no longer able to have disagreements without anger.

 

Everyone is conditioned to fly off the handle at the slightest provocation or perceived injustice and take things to the extreme.

 

If you disagree with these protests, you're racist and divisive.

 

If you don't stand up for them, you're an unpatriotic black panther commie bastage.

Yep.

[penultimatestraw 473]

It was kind of a joke. The only person I know that is only referred to as Barry

Is Barry Sanders

Voltaire has blown a gasket. I'm worried for kutulu's safety.

[Voltaire 4,559]

Now I'm offended.

I have always sided with the Dixie Chicks on that.

[Voltaire 4,559]

Voltaire has blown a gasket. I'm worried for kutulu's safety.

Don't be, I can't afford the airfare.

 

Actually, that's not true, there's a good chance we'll return next summer. It's the hotels and restaurants that I can't afford so we'll live with my mom and stick around Detroit again.