UPDATE: Possibility of a Zeke suspension? - Allowed to play Wk 7

[TBayXXXVII 2,679]

I think the NFL should put in a new policy. "If you get suspended and appeal 'to the Courts', and you win - to which the NFL appeals to a higher court - and then wins, the player is completely banned for life with no chance of reinstatement". There was a 100% chance that the NFL was going to come out on top and a 0% chance that Elliott was going to lose. In the CBA, which the players signed off on, Goodell has FULL AUTHORITY on all suspensions as he sees fit. There's no way any player will ever win these things. All this does is waste time.

[lesjroza 70]

I think the NFL should put in a new policy. "If you get suspended and appeal 'to the Courts', and you win - to which the NFL appeals to a higher court - and then wins, the player is completely banned for life with no chance of reinstatement". There was a 100% chance that the NFL was going to come out on top and a 0% chance that Elliott was going to lose. In the CBA, which the players signed off on, Goodell has FULL AUTHORITY on all suspensions as he sees fit. There's no way any player will ever win these things. All this does is waste time.

 

 

Its clearly consensus that Zeke will eventually lose, and I agree but its far from 100%. If you are looking at it from the Cowboys perspective the chances are so high that you are basically deciding whether you want to have him miss 6 games this year or next. If you are Zeke you are weighing whether the small chance you win is worth having your name continue to be associated daily with domestic violence as this thing drags on, but if you are the players association, at this point you feel the way the NFL is using the broad stroke of authority to punish based on the CBA is so putrid its worth pushing ahead to see if they can get it redefined.

 

Zeke/NFLPA does have a real case, its not just a kick the can tactic.

 

The simplistic version is this...............the parties agreed to arbitration in the event of an appeal of punishment.

 

One of the only ways to have been affirmed by the courts as invalidating arbitration decisions is on the grounds of the process lacking fundamental fairness.

 

There is a realistic case to be made that the arbitration process lacked fundamental fairness and the NFLPA did succeed in showing it with Mazzant in Texas.

 

Additionally in the 5th circuit which reinstated the suspension the decision was 2-1, not unanimous.

 

The 2 judges who decided to reinstate did so based on jurisdiction and timeliness (in relation to the arbitrator decision). Importantly they did not shoot down the fundamental fairness issue itself, and the 3rd judges dissenting opinion essentially agreed with Mazzant on fundamental fairness. There is groundwork in place to overturn the whole thing its just that in NY that is less likely to happen.

 

 

The whole thing should be further clarification how politics invade the legal process to the point where there are not true checks and balances in our current system. Where the court is located, who appoints the judges, can easily determine the way the "law" reads. The people who write the biggest checks in that arena get the largest slice of "justice".

[TBayXXXVII 2,679]

 

 

Its clearly consensus that Zeke will eventually lose, and I agree but its far from 100%. If you are looking at it from the Cowboys perspective the chances are so high that you are basically deciding whether you want to have him miss 6 games this year or next. If you are Zeke you are weighing whether the small chance you win is worth having your name continue to be associated daily with domestic violence as this thing drags on, but if you are the players association, at this point you feel the way the NFL is using the broad stroke of authority to punish based on the CBA is so putrid its worth pushing ahead to see if they can get it redefined.

 

Zeke/NFLPA does have a real case, its not just a kick the can tactic.

 

The simplistic version is this...............the parties agreed to arbitration in the event of an appeal of punishment.

 

One of the only ways to have been affirmed by the courts as invalidating arbitration decisions is on the grounds of the process lacking fundamental fairness.

 

There is a realistic case to be made that the arbitration process lacked fundamental fairness and the NFLPA did succeed in showing it with Mazzant in Texas.

 

Additionally in the 5th circuit which reinstated the suspension the decision was 2-1, not unanimous.

 

The 2 judges who decided to reinstate did so based on jurisdiction and timeliness (in relation to the arbitrator decision). Importantly they did not shoot down the fundamental fairness issue itself, and the 3rd judges dissenting opinion essentially agreed with Mazzant on fundamental fairness. There is groundwork in place to overturn the whole thing its just that in NY that is less likely to happen.

 

 

The whole thing should be further clarification how politics invade the legal process to the point where there are not true checks and balances in our current system. Where the court is located, who appoints the judges, can easily determine the way the "law" reads. The people who write the biggest checks in that arena get the largest slice of "justice".

 

It was 100%. Whether the suspension was this year or next, the NFL was always going to win in the end... even if they had to take it to the Supreme Court.

[seafoam1 3,499]

There is a lot of money spent on all of this because Elliot is a punk and wont just take his medicine.

 

God forbid he should just say ok enough and ship a few bucks to someone in need instead of his lawyers.

[lesjroza 70]

 

It was 100%. Whether the suspension was this year or next, the NFL was always going to win in the end... even if they had to take it to the Supreme Court.

 

 

LOL, Ok so how could the court in Texas have decided otherwise?

 

If I thought there was a 100% chance of absolutely getting paid off in the event I win............. I'd probably accept a bet where you were giving me 15-1 as I'd think that was greatly in my favor.

 

You kinda sound like the guy who thought the chances of the courts overturning Mazzant were no greater than 1% and thought the idea of the chances he was back on suspension this year at some point being at least 25% was ridiculous.

 

Court decisions by either juries or judges are very difficult to ascertain beforehand..........that's part of why most cases end in

settlement.

 

FWIW if it were to go to the supreme court, Zeke's odds of winning would go up considerably, but the chances the court would accept the case are small because its considered to be applicable to too narrow a segment of the population. The chances are very solid the Supreme Court would uphold the fundamental fairness issue and shoot down the suspension as it stands on that basis. Elliott could still be subject to punishment following, the NFL would just have to use a "more fair" process to make the decision.

[TBayXXXVII 2,679]

 

 

LOL, Ok so how could the court in Texas have decided otherwise?

 

If I thought there was a 100% chance of absolutely getting paid off in the event I win............. I'd probably accept a bet where you were giving me 15-1 as I'd think that was greatly in my favor.

 

You kinda sound like the guy who thought the chances of the courts overturning Mazzant were no greater than 1% and thought the idea of the chances he was back on suspension this year at some point being at least 25% was ridiculous.

 

Court decisions by either juries or judges are very difficult to ascertain beforehand..........that's part of why most cases end in settlement.

 

Because the judges clearly had an agenda. It's why it got overturned.

[lesjroza 70]

 

Because the judges clearly had an agenda. It's why it got overturned.

 

 

Meaning the 5th circuit does not? And they are right on "the law"?

[lesjroza 70]

He is actually back off suspension for now.................

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/10/14/ezekiel-elliott-remains-eligible-to-play-for-now/

[thePRO 78]

Almost unloaded Zeke for Ingram. Phew. Watch him play all season still. What a mess.

 

Although maybe I should pull the trigger on the trade because no ones gonna want Zeke if his suspension hits FF playoff time.

[brotherbock 349]

He is actually back off suspension for now.................

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/10/14/ezekiel-elliott-remains-eligible-to-play-for-now/

 

Darren McFadden just reupped his Netflix subscription.

[lesjroza 70]

Almost unloaded Zeke for Ingram. Phew. Watch him play all season still. What a mess.

 

Although maybe I should pull the trigger on the trade because no ones gonna want Zeke if his suspension hits FF playoff time.

 

 

Somebody will want him.............getting TO the playoffs is an important ingredient in winning it all.

 

That said there is a high likelihood there is a decision next week that will hold for the remainder of this season IMHO.

 

Funny thing though, I gave serious consideration to Ingram++ myself but never sent it because I don't think the counterpart could afford to do that deal this week with byes for all he would roster. Might consider an offer early next week along those lines though.

[thePRO 78]

 

 

Somebody will want him.............getting TO the playoffs is an important ingredient in winning it all.

 

That said there is a high likelihood there is a decision next week that will hold for the remainder of this season IMHO.

 

Funny thing though, I gave serious consideration to Ingram++ myself but never sent it because I don't think the counterpart could afford to do that deal this week with byes for all he would roster. Might consider an offer early next week along those lines though.

Do you feel pretty good about it? I'm thinking Ingram is the best I can get for Zeke. Ingram will get more touches now with AP gone, but Kamara seems like the favorite now. Ingram will be a solid RB2 I'm hoping.

[huskyhater75 242]

Don't know how Saints will handle that, but Kamara is the better producer......how many years has Ingram just been 'hanging around', being a regular RB? I think they'll give Kamara more chances because they have to start doing better than they have been.

[Challenger 72]

Don't trade for Mark Ingram. That's just silly, you just trading for name sake at this point. Kamara will probably out perform Ingram going forward.

[lesjroza 70]

Do you feel pretty good about it? I'm thinking Ingram is the best I can get for Zeke. Ingram will get more touches now with AP gone, but Kamara seems like the favorite now. Ingram will be a solid RB2 I'm hoping.

 

 

Don't know how Saints will handle that, but Kamara is the better producer......how many years has Ingram just been 'hanging around', being a regular RB? I think they'll give Kamara more chances because they have to start doing better than they have been.

 

 

Don't trade for Mark Ingram. That's just silly, you just trading for name sake at this point. Kamara will probably out perform Ingram going forward.

 

 

Pro, I'm not sure about it by any means and where its possible it could make sense in my situation, it probably does not in yours.

 

Ingram in general does not have upside you want in a starter to give up an Elliott, I agree with the others .

 

I just thought it was funny you mentioned an Ingram deal which was something I had looked at, but mine is a salary cap league. Elliott is 22% of the cap and Ingram is only 6%, I was looking at a deal that included a couple of other pieces along with Ingram and overall cutting significant cap from my team which I believe I'd have the opportunity to use in a different way, I'm currently sitting at 7-0 (double headers). I think maybe my team also has strong enough firepower to afford losing a big gun like Elliott knowing I have the chance to make it up in a different way. The one thing I do like about Ingram though is his consistency so far this season and expect it to continue going forward, he should be a very solid RB2 AP with gone.

 

In any case, I wasn't thinking Ingram would have any chance of replacing Elliott one for one.

[thePRO 78]

Ingram looking pretty darn good today. 20 points in the first half. There may go my shot at trading for him haha

[lesjroza 70]

Ingram looking pretty darn good today. 20 points in the first half. There may go my shot at trading for him haha

 

Yeah, owners are funny that way. This week's points are obviously very game script dependent as the Saints are up early big in part on a defensive TD............but its usually not obvious to all.

 

It does highlight the ceiling for Ingram but he he will continue to have mostly high floor games. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[thePRO 78]

 

Yeah, owners are funny that way. This week's points are obviously very game script dependent as the Saints are up early big in part on a defensive TD............but its usually not obvious to all.

 

It does highlight the ceiling for Ingram but he he will continue to have mostly high floor games. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

He also owns Rodgers. I have Rivers and Wilson. Maybe I can flip one, preferably Rivers for Ingram. It'll be interesting. The WW has terrible QB's. Good luck to you too

[Bad Mojo 3]

Court rules against Zeke... Remains suspended

[cdogge 17]

So... what does the next couple of days look like? Best case for zeek is what? Timing wise that is

[Challenger 72]

Court rules against Zeke... Remains suspended

 

At least post the full news. You going to come here half assed, worse than 1 click to open Roto news...

[jgcrawfish 232]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2739197-ezekiel-elliott-remains-suspended-nflpa-motion-to-recall-mandate-denied

[seafoam1 3,499]

Will Elliott just not go away? Lets keep taking up time in court and all over the place. What a loser.

[Challenger 72]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2739197-ezekiel-elliott-remains-suspended-nflpa-motion-to-recall-mandate-denied

 

Again that's half of the news and it's already old.

 

https://twitter.com/WALLACHLEGAL

 

Judge will rule by end of today.

[jgcrawfish 232]

 

Again that's half of the news and it's already old.

 

https://twitter.com/WALLACHLEGAL

 

Judge will rule by end of today.

Somebody asked for a link, I provided, and I wasn't even the one called out for not posting it. Let us know how things are in the courtroom since you're so on top of things, k?

[cyclone24 1,940]

Somebody asked for a link, I provided, and I wasn't even the one called out for not posting it. Let us know how things are in the courtroom since you're so on top of things, k?

 

Thats Mmmmmmkay you sonofabitch:)

[Challenger 72]

Somebody asked for a link, I provided, and I wasn't even the one called out for not posting it. Let us know how things are in the courtroom since you're so on top of things, k?

 

Actually, if you click on my link, there is a law reporter in the courtroom that's providing up to the minute updates. You welcome?

[Brutal Brutus 182]

 

Actually, if you click on my link, there is a law reporter in the courtroom that's providing up to the minute updates.

Could you verify this "lawyers" credentials? I want to make sure that this guy is a reliable source.

[seafoam1 3,499]

Could you verify this "lawyers" credentials? I want to make sure that this guy is a reliable source.

Maybe he has credentials but is planted here by European Football infiltrators. We need the CIA. Oh wait... maybe I know someone personally who can help with this task. ☺

[jgcrawfish 232]

All courtroom reports are filed by this guy

[lesjroza 70]

I'm seeing Zeke won the TRO, NFL will appeal to quash it but the fact that he won this one on their home field means the odds swing pretty hard to him playing this week and probably for the rest of the year IMO.

[rsmnutt 8]

Temporary restraining order granted:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/ZachZagger/status/920434659749781504

[rrmcguire 36]

Jesus....do I still keep McFadden?

[Bad Mojo 3]

The NFL is paying their lawyers a fortune... Getting no value.... Embarrasing

[Law 263]

People who post the his effort were denied, suck!

 

As for this season, I'd almost rather it just end now and the 6 games start. Better to not have now than weeks 14-16.

[lesjroza 70]

Jesus....do I still keep McFadden?

 

Yes, 1 more week, that's all

[lesjroza 70]

People who post the his effort were denied, suck!

 

As for this season, I'd almost rather it just end now and the 6 games start. Better to not have now than weeks 14-16.

 

 

We entering the end game here, there is a very good chance if he gets beyond this week,................. further legal machinations aside, he will play all year.

Not going into why again, check out all the other threads.

[Law 263]

 

 

We entering the end game here, there is a very good chance if he gets beyond this week,................. further legal machinations aside, he will play all year.

Not going into why again, check out all the other threads.

 

You mean all the other opinions, hopes, and guesses?

 

Let me tell you this, courts do what courts want to do. Especially Appellate ones! They don't really follow anyone's timeline other than their own.

[rsmnutt 8]

 

Yes, 1 more week, that's all

The TRO is good until 10/30/17. Zeke will be playing the next two weeks.

[lesjroza 70]

 

You mean all the other opinions, hopes, and guesses?

 

Let me tell you this, courts do what courts want to do. Especially Appellate ones! They don't really follow anyone's timeline other than their own.

 

 

The TRO is good until 10/30/17. Zeke will be playing the next two weeks.

 

 

Yep, just my guess for sure............but I have been following closely since the start and have a far better handle on this than the majority of national reporters.

 

Not going into it all. I just won't, but go read the reasoning behind this order. SAME as the original Mazzant order. irreparable harm and this second comes on the NFL home field. Its likely now any judge will uphold letting Zeke play until the final ruling on this case which should be in the off-seaon.

 

I'm not going to argue with anybody over it. Next up the NFL will likely appeal this TRO and we go on from there but make no mistake about it, HUGE blow to the NFL in terms of keeping him off the field for 6 games this year.

 

Beyond that there are enough questions piling up from these judges opinions that there is now a more realistic chance for him in the final case to have it overturned as well.

 

There is no definite one way or the other in these court cases, same as FF.............just a range of outcomes one can tilt their opinions toward.