At what age do people usually realize religion is a scam?

[cyclone24 1,814]

The thing I dislike most about the critics of religion is they focus mainly on Christianity. Meanwhile.....

You're complaining about being critical of the most popular geographic religion....while just following the most popular geographic religion only.

 

What luck!! You guys just happened to follow the god of where you luckily live!!

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

[quote name="Kanil" post="6175137" timestamp="1520272312

 

Think how much time and resources have been wasted on religion that could be spent in better ways. If we took all the money donated to churches over the past 20 years and put it all into cancer research, I believe we'd have a cure.

 

This is almost as dumb as the flat earthers who say they have members all over the globe.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

You're complaining about being critical of the most popular geographic religion....while just following the most popular geographic religion only.

 

What luck!! You guys just happened to follow the god of where you luckily live!!

Thats how it gets started, but once you get past all the fairy tales, it's easy to see that Jesus is alright. Nothing wrong with living your life based on what he was teaching. Nothing at all.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Sure. The social aspect of church is a good thing. I think the decline of that, along with other social things (lions, Kiwanis, elk, bowling leagues, hell, even the local pub) is responsible for a lot of the problems we see in society today.

 

Most people are isolated, lonely and unhappy to some degree. Some of them snap and do crazy sh!t.

 

But you could just as easily enjoy your hour at the mosque, synagogue, Scientology center, or tabernacle. You strike me as a reasonable fellow who would likely agree that you have no way to say for certain that your god is any more real than any of those others.

 

The ones I get annoyed with are the... yes I know. Christ spoke to me in my heart. I know.

 

Yeah right. Funny how Christ mostly speaks to people in north and South America, Europe, and places like the Philippines, while allah and Buddha cover their respective turf.

Im active in the Lions Club and local youth sports as well. Both are good causes and also worthy of my time and effort.

 

God has never spoken to me directly. I dont believe he/she/it operates that way.

 

As I said, I dont have blind faith, so my mind is open to all religions and ideas. I happen to connect with this particular religion in many ways so it suits me well.

 

Ive been on the other side of this discussion where I thought it was all silly and fraudulent. Ive come to believe thats not really the case.

 

Science has explained a lot, but not all. Definitive answers about the universe are elusive and we may never really have them.

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

James webb space telescope ahould help!!!

[jerryskids 5,206]

 

 

Why does this make you giddy with joy?

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Im active in the Lions Club and local youth sports as well. Both are good causes and also worthy of my time and effort.

 

God has never spoken to me directly. I dont believe he/she/it operates that way.

 

As I said, I dont have blind faith, so my mind is open to all religions and ideas. I happen to connect with this particular religion in many ways so it suits me well.

 

Ive been on the other side of this discussion where I thought it was all silly and fraudulent. Ive come to believe thats not really the case.

 

Science has explained a lot, but not all. Definitive answers about the universe are elusive and we may never really have them.

I completely agree.

 

I used to be a militant atheist. I now would be more of an agnostic. I certainly dont know if there is a god. I hope there is. I dont believe any of the creeds Ive come across.

 

Probably the ones I like best are Buddhism and Taoism. More meditation centered than pleading with a god.

[Cdub100 3,381]

Everything in life has purpose

You, chickens, a midget at a circus

 

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

I am a true Catholic, ie Christmas, Easter, and maybe 1-2 other masses a year.

 

I am not sure what i believe, but i do find the bible fascinating. I like reading biblical history and probably could rival Naomi or Budbro in an ad hoc bible quiz.

[jerryskids 5,206]

0-20 - God is good

21-40 - Huh there probably isn't a god or straight up denial.

41 - Death - There might be a god, but probably not like any of the earthly religions portray him.

Afterlife - Forever - Sh1t it sure is hot down here.

 

This is great; did you find it online somewhere or come up with it yourself?

 

I was raised Catholic; somewhere in HS I began to realize that it was probably not real. But I kept going, because not going was not an option in my family.

 

I went to college and stopped going to church. I was too busy for that nonsense.

 

I graduated and moved to Phoenix and met my wife, and a funny thing happened. She wasn't raised with religion and knew it was important to my family (if not me so much), so she decided to go through RCIA and become Catholic. I loved her and supported her, and this brought us back to the Church. I became a lector and we got married under a new young priest. I've said here on multiple occasions that every married couple should go through the process that the Catholic church has, to make sure they are ready for a union such as marriage. Anyway, I enjoyed that time back with the Catholic community.

 

We raised our kids through the sacraments if they choose to be Catholic, but eventually we grew away from the Church and other than weddings and funerals, haven't been back.

 

Funny story though, the priest that married us was a young up and comer in the Church, and quickly rose to be on our bishop's staff. But then he decided that wasn't his calling and went back to preaching, and ended up as the priest for Arizona State. My daughter who attends there found out and just a few weeks ago went to a Mass and introduced herself to him. 24+ years later he remembered my wife and me, including facts like I grew up in PA.

 

I say all of this to say that there is a community to being part of a church. I don't see us getting back into the Catholic faith but I can see us finding a church/community which we can be a part of.

[windycityguy 1]

I was 7 when i figured out there was no Santa and Church was a scam

[SenatorRock 708]

 

What bothered me was Sunday School. My friends would be FORCED to go. Why force a kid to go to that bullchit? Not like it was a real school where they were learning about stuff, that you know, actually happened and is real?

 

Wat?

 

1. Lots of stuff in the bible has been corroborated and was "real".

 

2. Lots of stuff taught in schools is based on whatever those in charge want people to believe (regardless of factual truths).

 

I am not saying you should believe everything in the bible (or in school for that matter) just because it is written, you should always dig deeper for things you are interested in. Mainly I just want to call out your line of thinking, which you probably never really gave any thought to, just repeating something you heard someone else say.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

 

This is great; did you find it online somewhere or come up with it yourself?

 

I was raised Catholic; somewhere in HS I began to realize that it was probably not real. But I kept going, because not going was not an option in my family.

 

I went to college and stopped going to church. I was too busy for that nonsense.

 

I graduated and moved to Phoenix and met my wife, and a funny thing happened. She wasn't raised with religion and knew it was important to my family (if not me so much), so she decided to go through RCIA and become Catholic. I loved her and supported her, and this brought us back to the Church. I became a lector and we got married under a new young priest. I've said here on multiple occasions that every married couple should go through the process that the Catholic church has, to make sure they are ready for a union such as marriage. Anyway, I enjoyed that time back with the Catholic community.

 

We raised our kids through the sacraments if they choose to be Catholic, but eventually we grew away from the Church and other than weddings and funerals, haven't been back.

 

Funny story though, the priest that married us was a young up and comer in the Church, and quickly rose to be on our bishop's staff. But then he decided that wasn't his calling and went back to preaching, and ended up as the priest for Arizona State. My daughter who attends there found out and just a few weeks ago went to a Mass and introduced herself to him. 24+ years later he remembered my wife and me, including facts like I grew up in PA.

 

I say all of this to say that there is a community to being part of a church. I don't see us getting back into the Catholic faith but I can see us finding a church/community which we can be a part of.

I usually count the ceiling tiles in church. I surprisingly enjoyed Pre-Cana and got something out of it.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

 

Funny story though, the priest that married us was a young comer in the Church, and quickly rose on our bishop's staff.

 

Giggity

[jerryskids 5,206]

Funny story though, the priest that married us was a young comer in the Church, and quickly rose on our bishop's staff.

 

Giggity

 

Well played.

[Cdub100 3,381]

 

This is great; did you find it online somewhere or come up with it yourself?

 

I was raised Catholic; somewhere in HS I began to realize that it was probably not real. But I kept going, because not going was not an option in my family.

 

I went to college and stopped going to church. I was too busy for that nonsense.

 

I graduated and moved to Phoenix and met my wife, and a funny thing happened. She wasn't raised with religion and knew it was important to my family (if not me so much), so she decided to go through RCIA and become Catholic. I loved her and supported her, and this brought us back to the Church. I became a lector and we got married under a new young priest. I've said here on multiple occasions that every married couple should go through the process that the Catholic church has, to make sure they are ready for a union such as marriage. Anyway, I enjoyed that time back with the Catholic community.

 

We raised our kids through the sacraments if they choose to be Catholic, but eventually we grew away from the Church and other than weddings and funerals, haven't been back.

 

Funny story though, the priest that married us was a young up and comer in the Church, and quickly rose to be on our bishop's staff. But then he decided that wasn't his calling and went back to preaching, and ended up as the priest for Arizona State. My daughter who attends there found out and just a few weeks ago went to a Mass and introduced herself to him. 24+ years later he remembered my wife and me, including facts like I grew up in PA.

 

I say all of this to say that there is a community to being part of a church. I don't see us getting back into the Catholic faith but I can see us finding a church/community which we can be a part of.

 

I just came up with it, but like everything on the internet I'm sure someone else thought of it too and did it better.

 

I'm atheist and have always been atheist. I can see a lot of good the Church has done though. I also think it's important to the moral fabric of society.

 

I think people rely on science too much. Any scientist worth their salt will tell you there might be a god. There's just no way to disprove it.

 

At the end of the day if there is a god and if god has a plan I'm just a person and it's not for me to determine what that plan is. All I can do is be the best person I can be.

 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,585]

just remember at some point ALL religion becomes Mythology

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

 

I just came up with it, but like everything on the internet I'm sure someone else thought of it too and did it better.

 

I'm atheist and have always been atheist. I can see a lot of good the Church has done though. I also think it's important to the moral fabric of society.

 

I think people rely on science too much. Any scientist worth their salt will tell you there might be a god. There's just no way to disprove it.

 

At the end of the day if there is a god and if god has a plan I'm just a person and it's not for me to determine what that plan is. All I can do is be the best person I can be.

 

I have zero problem with the notion that there is a god. None.

 

Where I have a problem is when they start with, there is a god, here is his word (edited and translated by us of course). Here are all the behaviors he doesnt like, and we should make illegal.

 

By the way, god needs money. Lets call it 10% shall we?

 

Fock that. There is no certainty on this issue. Anyone on either side who says they know is a fool, a crook, or both.

 

I was raised Methodist. Was very active in the church until about 15. Then I began to recognize it for what it is. A mechanism of control and enrichment.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,920]

I stood in a Catholic Church one day and two months after Katrina. Ten feet of water. It was drained at that time, but Fawked Up. Place was destroyed. But the beautiful stained glass windows were still intact. Had a hole in the ceiling ten feet wide. Was rained on for months.

 

I at the time did and handled claims for the Archdiocese for New Orleans. Made a lot of money prior to Katrina. Great self insured company

 

I didn't believe. I didn't think there was a higher power in any of the books there . By the time I left that church, I did.

 

There is a being above us. Way smarter and is laughing at us all.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I stood in a Catholic Church one day and two months after Katrina. Ten feet of water. It was drained at that time, but Fawked Up. Place was destroyed. But the beautiful stained glass windows were still intact. Had a hole in the ceiling ten feet wide. Was rained on for months.

 

I at the time did and handled claims for the Archdiocese for New Orleans. Made a lot of money prior to Katrina. Great self insured company

 

I didn't believe. I didn't think there was a higher power in any of the books there . By the time I left that church, I did.

 

There is a being above us. Way smarter and is laughing at us all.

See, I struggle with the concept of god.

 

If there is one, whats his game? Why do babies die of cancer? Why do natural disasters wipe out millions of people?

 

Why is there no justice in the world?

 

Is this a test? Is it like the deist clockwinder theory, where god created everything and doesnt meddle? Are we some adolescent gods third grade science fair project, an early attempt at creation moldering in the back of his closet?

 

I dont get Christians and prayer. You say god has a plan. Things happen for a reason. Then why pray asking him to change it? I get praying for help understanding or dealing with it. But according to Christian doctrine, god either gave you or allowed you to get cancer for a reason. Why would he change his mind?

 

I struggle with the concept of a god that sick and cruel. To watch people suffer for a test? To base their eternal salvation or damnation on accepting the unknowable by blind faith?

 

I have come to accept that I will never know if there is a god, at least not on this earth, much less understand his designs and will. And Im ok with that. In the meantime, I loathe those who would use God to gain personal power or wealth at the expense of those who suffer. Thats just focked up and wrong.

[KSB2424 3,083]

Ill be 100% honest. Im not sure.

 

What I do know? Im not smart/wise/enlightened enough to tell somebody else they are wrong.

 

Ive seen religion used for good and evil, but in my opinion its been a net positive to humanity.

[wiffleball 4,642]

We did what every good Catholic kid did. Once we could drive, we said that we were going to church. The parents would require us to pick up a program or whatever they're called. So, you go in and grab a program and get the hell out.

 

It's like everybody knew everybody was lying but we all had to play the game.

[wiffleball 4,642]

I remember causing a mini meltdown over at FBG years ago.

 

So, the Ten Commandments were the 10 worst things you could do unto God correct? It was so important that God got this message to his people that is the only time in the entirety of the Bible that God took physical form on Earth. These are the 10 things you absolutely must not do if you want to make it to heaven.

 

Correct!!!

 

So, God has repeatedly in the Bible said that he adores children above all else in this world. Constantly referring to Children. Such as you must have the faith of a child to enter the kingdom of heaven. So God really loves children right?

 

You are correct sir!

 

So, in all of eternity God only appears in physical form once on this Earth to deliver the most important message of his entire rain, and he loves children more than anything else in the universe.

 

YEP!

 

 

So, um how come not a single one of his Commandments speaks out Against Child Abuse?

 

[wiffleball 4,642]

Given that my uncle was a mucky-muck in the church and my mom was a child abuse investigator and saw all manner of horrific things. Which means I saw all manner of horrific things, it made for quite the Sunday supper. I'm surprised I ever got invited back to the table again.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,920]

See, I struggle with the concept of god.

 

If there is one, whats his game? Why do babies die of cancer? Why do natural disasters wipe out millions of people?

 

Why is there no justice in the world?

 

Is this a test? Is it like the deist clockwinder theory, where god created everything and doesnt meddle? Are we some adolescent gods third grade science fair project, an early attempt at creation moldering in the back of his closet?

 

I dont get Christians and prayer. You say god has a plan. Things happen for a reason. Then why pray asking him to change it? I get praying for help understanding or dealing with it. But according to Christian doctrine, god either gave you or allowed you to get cancer for a reason. Why would he change his mind?

 

I struggle with the concept of a god that sick and cruel. To watch people suffer for a test? To base their eternal salvation or damnation on accepting the unknowable by blind faith?

 

I have come to accept that I will never know if there is a god, at least not on this earth, much less understand his designs and will. And Im ok with that. In the meantime, I loathe those who would use God to gain personal power or wealth at the expense of those who suffer. Thats just focked up and wrong.

I struggle with justice and suffering more than anything else. I get why you gave up law. Faith in either is depressing and hopeful. So is believing. I believe in someone much higher than I, but don't understand the justice and suffering that goes with said faith in that.

[vuduchile 1,941]

See, I struggle with the concept of god.

 

If there is one, whats his game? Why do babies die of cancer? Why do natural disasters wipe out millions of people?

 

Why is there no justice in the world?

 

Is this a test? Is it like the deist clockwinder theory, where god created everything and doesnt meddle? Are we some adolescent gods third grade science fair project, an early attempt at creation moldering in the back of his closet?

 

I dont get Christians and prayer. You say god has a plan. Things happen for a reason. Then why pray asking him to change it? I get praying for help understanding or dealing with it. But according to Christian doctrine, god either gave you or allowed you to get cancer for a reason. Why would he change his mind?

 

I struggle with the concept of a god that sick and cruel. To watch people suffer for a test? To base their eternal salvation or damnation on accepting the unknowable by blind faith?

 

I have come to accept that I will never know if there is a god, at least not on this earth, much less understand his designs and will. And Im ok with that. In the meantime, I loathe those who would use God to gain personal power or wealth at the expense of those who suffer. Thats just focked up and wrong.

In our Methodist Church, were currently in a series titled, God Never Said That

 

Last weeks message was about things happen for a reason

 

By and large, we dont believe that because it takes personal choice completely out of the equation.

 

Its also a piss poor way to explain away tragedy.

[edjr 5,567]

 

Why does this make you giddy with joy?

 

buncha mo's in the church.

[wiffleball 4,642]

For those who are struggling with the idea that God lets bad things happen, let me give you a real world example. Put yourself in God's shoes in this example and really think about what you would do.

 

In 2005, Jessica Lunsford was kidnapped raped repeatedly held captive in the closet with literally not a pot to piss in, raped again and then buried alive.

 

The man responsible for all of this was a registered sex offender on parole. He was in violation of multiple aspects of his parole.

 

As a result of this atrocity that Jessica went through, Jessica's law was passed by a very enterprising politician and Jessica's dad.

 

Moreover, that law was so obviously needed and so obviously popular, it appeared in various iterations in 35 different state houses across the country. Then, it went to Washington DC.

 

Here's the rub, bub.

 

You know all of this is going to happen. Do you forsake a beautiful little girl and let her go through all the horrors that she endured? But you know full well that all of those hirrors being as bad as they are are the reason why Jessica's law is so damn successful. You forsake her, but over the course of 10 years save 7000 little girls from a similar fate.

 

Whaddya do?

 

What do you say at her funeral? Everything happens for a reason?

[Kanil 519]

Well, Jesus, who Christianity is all about, never said to stone or harm anyone. So if anyone is teaching that, it's not in his name. Now on the other hand, Muhammad , who Islam is all about, had a bit of a violence thing going on. He demanded it.

 

Your argument makes the assumption that both Christianity and Islam are both taught only what came out of the mouth of their prophet. We both know that's false. There are absolutely parts of the bible that are completely focked up and there is no denying that. You have to come up with a better argument to support your hate for Islam as a whole.

[wiffleball 4,642]

 

You have to come up with a better argument to support your hate for Islam as a whole.

Bacon, Bourbon, Beer.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

 

Your argument makes the assumption that both Christianity and Islam are both taught only what came out of the mouth of their prophet. We both know that's false. There are absolutely parts of the bible that are completely focked up and there is no denying that. You have to come up with a better argument to support your hate for Islam as a whole.

The word of Jaisus superceeds anything said or written by anyone else in the Bible. When they talk of a happening in the Old Testament, they don't end it by saying "this is the word of the lord". It's a parabelle, a story conveyed to make a point. Not a commandment.

[wiffleball 4,642]

Parabell, Tinker's sister with cerebral palsy. One of the lesser-known of the Bell family.

[Kanil 519]

The word of Jaisus superceeds anything said or written by anyone else in the Bible. When they talk of a happening in the Old Testament, they don't end it by saying "this is the word of the lord". It's a parabelle, a story conveyed to make a point. Not a commandment.

 

So are you, or are you not, saying that anything that is in the OT is not taught in church? Or are you saying that while it's written specifically saying to stone people they don't really mean you should stone people but rather use that verse as a moral guideline to avoid whatever behavior the stoning passage was about?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

 

So are you, or are you not, saying that anything that is in the OT is not taught in church? Or are you saying that while it's written specifically saying to stone people they don't really mean you should stone people but rather use that verse as a moral guideline to avoid whatever behavior the stoning passage was about?

Pretty much. "He who is without sin shall cast the first stone". Ever hear of it? My work is done here. Go in peace.

[jerryskids 5,206]

For those who are struggling with the idea that God lets bad things happen, let me give you a real world example. Put yourself in God's shoes in this example and really think about what you would do.

 

In 2005, Jessica Lunsford was kidnapped raped repeatedly held captive in the closet with literally not a pot to piss in, raped again and then buried alive.

 

The man responsible for all of this was a registered sex offender on parole. He was in violation of multiple aspects of his parole.

 

As a result of this atrocity that Jessica went through, Jessica's law was passed by a very enterprising politician and Jessica's dad.

 

Moreover, that law was so obviously needed and so obviously popular, it appeared in various iterations in 35 different state houses across the country. Then, it went to Washington DC.

 

Here's the rub, bub.

 

You know all of this is going to happen. Do you forsake a beautiful little girl and let her go through all the horrors that she endured? But you know full well that all of those hirrors being as bad as they are are the reason why Jessica's law is so damn successful. You forsake her, but over the course of 10 years save 7000 little girls from a similar fate.

 

Whaddya do?

 

What do you say at her funeral? Everything happens for a reason?

 

I disagree, as that is a bit Machiavellian and also it implies that every hardship leads to an overall greater good, which seems unlikely.

 

I prefer to think that, if there is a God and heaven, God is a bit standoffish, having created this world with it's intentional imperfections (like the Matrix, we all need some challenges). We all get different lots in life -- some folks have kids who die of cancer, others grow up in shiothole African countries, others live to 99 in general comfort. Then he rates us on something of an RPI scale.

[Kanil 519]

Pretty much. "He who is without sin shall cast the first stone". Ever hear of it? My work is done here. Go in peace.

So Christians don't follow, or teach, everything in their texts but you have an irrational hate for Islam because you believe they do. Got it.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

So Christians don't follow, or teach, everything in their texts but you have an irrational hate for Islam because you believe they do. Got it.

How is it irrational? Their text commands violence, they in turn do violence. What's irrational about that? Have you seen the countries where Islamic law is the law? Beheadings, chopped hands, gays executed. That exists, so your claim of irrational is, well, irrational.

[Kanil 519]

How is it irrational? Their text commands violence, they in turn do violence. What's irrational about that? Have you seen the countries where Islamic law is the law? Beheadings, chopped hands, gays executed. That exists, so your claim of irrational is, well, irrational.

 

How many mosques are within 100 miles of you? How many muslims do you think need to be in that area to support those mosques? How many beheadings, chopped hands, and gays executed have happened in that area?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending shitholes like Libya, Saudi, and essentially all of the middle east. Those places are horrible and run by terrible people but those people doing this terrible do not equate to everyone, or even a majority in the religion.

 

 

That said, religion is dumb and I'm glad more and more people are realizing it.

[vuduchile 1,941]

So Christians don't follow, or teach, everything in their texts but you have an irrational hate for Islam because you believe they do. Got it.

I dont know enough about Muslims to say how they generally practice worldwide.

 

But, if what weve all come to learn about how women are treated in predominantly Muslim countries is true, its safe to assume theyre not the most advanced thinkers.

 

There are also extremist Christian groups and they tend to get most of the press.

 

What the press doesnt cover is the story about how my church is bringing together needy seniors for a healthy lunch every Wednesday. Nor will they tell you about how the little kids from our daycare come to play games and make crafts with those seniors.

 

Nor will they tell you about the dozens of homes we ve rehabbed, the missions to Haiti or the backpacks stuffed with food we send home every weekend with any kid that needs it.

 

And thats all just one church in a community with less than 2000 year round residents. There are thousands of Christian churches across the US doing as much or more to make the world a better place.

 

But you want to define every Christian by passages in the Old Testament that havent been widely preached, practiced or taught in the last century? Why?

[Kanil 519]

I dont know enough about Muslims to say how they generally practice worldwide.

 

But, if what weve all come to learn about how women are treated in predominantly Muslim countries is true, its safe to assume theyre not the most advanced thinkers.

 

There are also extremist Christian groups and they tend to get most of the press.

 

What the press doesnt cover is the story about how my church is bringing together needy seniors for a healthy lunch every Wednesday. Nor will they tell you about how the little kids from our daycare come to play games and make crafts with those seniors.

 

Nor will they tell you about the dozens of homes we ve rehabbed, the missions to Haiti or the backpacks stuffed with food we send home every weekend with any kid that needs it.

 

And thats all just one church in a community with less than 2000 year round residents. There are thousands of Christian churches across the US doing as much or more to make the world a better place.

 

But you want to define every Christian by passages in the Old Testament that havent been widely preached, practiced or taught in the last century? Why?

 

Don't take my argument against HT as an argument against the Christian religion. I'm merely trying to point out his hypocrisy in his original statement specifically calling out Islam.

 

As for your church, I contend that you and the good people in your church, would still be good people without the bible or the words of Jesus. People, in general are good and kind hearted and that shows in the good deeds that are performed every day regardless of what religion they do or do not belong to.

 

Now, the organization of the good which is being done by your church is great and there is definitely an argument to be made that you all would not have banded together without the church. I'm sure there would be some sort of organization that got together to do good deeds for people if religion didn't exist but I think it could definitely be argued that it would not be on the same scale as it is now. There's also argument that any organization that was put together could be corrupted and wasteful, just as some (not all) churches are today so I don't want to sit here and pretend that religion is the root of all evil.

 

My stance is not so much that religion is bad, it's just not necessary.