Dallas Cowboys 2018 & Beyond

[Cruzer 1,995]

8 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

That wasn't the real genius (15% cap hit), there was no "genius" about that.  Brady wanted to go somewhere where he could win a Super Bowl.  Tampa was one of those teams.  The Bucs said we can pay you $25M for 2 years (since he said he wanted to play for 2 years), and we can throw some incentives in the deal.  He took it. The "genius" was that Brady was willing to take $25M.

I think your numbers are off a bit with Mahomes.  He only made $5.5M last year, he was still on his rookie deal.  His big money starts this coming season.

Something you're over looking though when you're talking about cap % is how that relates to other contracts.  According to Spotrac.com, Brady accounted for almost 14% of Tampa's cap, which is what you said... but the part that you're overlooking is the fact that the next highest person (Shaquil Barrett), was about half of that.  Go look at KC and see how Mahomes' $25M stacks up... which is about 13%, but there's 3 other guys over 10%.  Similar to what Dallas is going to be.  Simply, buy paying a QB big time money, you're going to have to either forgo one or two studs... or 3 or 4 solid players.  At that point, is your team truly better off?

You are correct, my #'s are for 2021. 

But the principal still applies - the number doesn't matter, it could be $100m a year, as long as it fall in line with your cap ratio. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I do not feel like they did a good job with Dak.  They ultimately signed him at the highest price possible and they dont even have a contending team.  Bad coach.  Seems like a recipe to spin wheels into mediocrity.  

QBs get paid.  I dont mind paying top dollar to keep your QB it is the nature of the business.  But you have to at least have a roster that can make some noise and have a chance.  I dont think they have that at all.  

Why aren’t they a contending team? They  are all but assured of winning the division with Dak. Who in the NFC is so great? 

[TimmySmith 2,782]

2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I do not feel like they did a good job with Dak.  They ultimately signed him at the highest price possible and they dont even have a contending team.  Bad coach.  Seems like a recipe to spin wheels into mediocrity.  

QBs get paid.  I dont mind paying top dollar to keep your QB it is the nature of the business.  But you have to at least have a roster that can make some noise and have a chance.  I dont think they have that at all.  

Tis true.  Their biggest problem isn't personnel, it's the personnel they have are on bad contracts. And now they get blasted for putting Dak on a reasonable one.  Without him, they have a really bad contract situation.

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why aren’t they a contending team? They  are all but assured of winning the division with Dak. Who in the NFC is so great? 

Their offensive line isnt very good.  They will run Zeke although he isnt scary at all and basically shot.  They dont have a TE.  They dont have a defense or even players on the defense that show promise as building blocks.  They literally have Dak and a few WRs.  

And their coach is MM.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why aren’t they a contending team? They  are all but assured of winning the division with Dak. Who in the NFC is so great? 

Philly is out, but the WFT and the Giants could both make a little noise.  Even with Dak the girls are a 9-7 team with no room for error.

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Just now, TimmySmith said:

Philly is out, but the WFT and the Giants could both make a little noise.  Even with Dak the girls are a 9-7 team with no room for error.

I mean Dallas could win that division.  But that isnt really being in contention in my opinion.  The Skins had zero shot of making noise.  They gave it hell vs Tampa.  But if the object is to win a SB....winning that division doesnt say a bunch other than getting worse draft spots than your peers. .....directed at HT but piggy backing here.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

9 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

Philly is out, but the WFT and the Giants could both make a little noise.  Even with Dak the girls are a 9-7 team with no room for error.

If the WFT gets a QB I’m with you. They are probably the most talented team top to bottom in the division.  But they need the most important part.  The Giants are in limbo until they show it on a consistent basis, and they don’t have the resources this year to add what they need, which is edge and WR, never mind the ever rebuilding offensive line. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

9 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I mean Dallas could win that division.  But that isnt really being in contention in my opinion.  The Skins had zero shot of making noise.  They gave it hell vs Tampa.  But if the object is to win a SB....winning that division doesnt say a bunch other than getting worse draft spots than your peers. .....directed at HT but piggy backing here.

Winning the division and getting a home game is still important. The team with the best QB more often than not wins the division. And again, there is no dominant team in the NFC. You get in with a good QB and you’re a contender. 

[Cruzer 1,995]

13 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Their offensive line isnt very good.  They will run Zeke although he isnt scary at all and basically shot.  They dont have a TE.  They dont have a defense or even players on the defense that show promise as building blocks.  They literally have Dak and a few WRs.  

And their coach is MM.

This is a pretty good assessment. I would add that in addition to this offensive line being overrated, they have a ton of $$$ tied up in them.

So much money tied up in bad deals, in not very good players seems to be Jerry's calling card. 

[Strike 5,571]

43 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why aren’t they a contending team? They  are all but assured of winning the division with Dak. Who in the NFC is so great? 

Apparently TB isn't horrible.......

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Apparently TB isn't horrible.......

Sure.  But they are beatable. Washington damn near took them out. 

[Strike 5,571]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Sure.  But they are beatable. Washington damn near took them out. 

They're not beatable by this Dallas team, even with Superman Prescott at QB.

[listen2me 23 1,873]

30 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Winning the division and getting a home game is still important. The team with the best QB more often than not wins the division. And again, there is no dominant team in the NFC. You get in with a good QB and you’re a contender. 

Watson comes to mind as a top 5-7 QB who never really had a legit shot at a SB in Hou even when they made the playoffs.  

Sure things can happen quick.  But Dallas has been a pretender for a while now.  Unless Jerrah randomly makes much more sound decisions than he historically has then I see nothing changing.  They didnt win with Dak and a good roster.  Now they have Dak and a bad roster.  

Sure ill concede that with some sound moves and the division remaining bad they have a shot to give the fans some false hope.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

9 minutes ago, Strike said:

They're not beatable by this Dallas team, even with Superman Prescott at QB.

Think I watched every Tampa game this year. Never thought I was looking at a dominant team 

[TBayXXXVII 2,552]

56 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

You are correct, my #'s are for 2021. 

But the principal still applies - the number doesn't matter, it could be $100m a year, as long as it fall in line with your cap ratio. 

My point was that I don't think it's as simple as that.  Roster makeup is a big part of it.  If your QB makes 50% of your cap and everyone else is cheap, you can still win if those guys are good.  But, if your team is good because it has say... 4 really expensive (good), players and a 4 key role (decently paid), players with your QB on a team friendly (rookie contract?), deal, that's great.  But what happens when your QB goes from 5% of your cap to 15% of your cap?  You may lose a really expensive player and two key role players to make room for that QB. To which my question.... did you really make your team better?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

4 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Watson comes to mind as a top 5-7 QB who never really had a legit shot at a SB in Hou even when they made the playoffs.  

Sure things can happen quick.  But Dallas has been a pretender for a while now.  Unless Jerrah randomly makes much more sound decisions than he historically has then I see nothing changing.  They didnt win with Dak and a good roster.  Now they have Dak and a bad roster.  

Sure ill concede that with some sound moves and the division remaining bad they have a shot to give the fans some false hope.

I think the AFC is much better then the NFC. Watson ran into a lot of good QB’s and teams in his playoff games. I think every team in the NFC is flawed. 

[listen2me 23 1,873]

TB is good for at least next year.  Beyond if they have a plan after Tom

GB is by no means a juggernaut but they are a perennial 11-13 win team.

Saints may be better without Brees.  Great roster still.

49ers are a Fitzpatrick away and staying healthy to contend.  

Rams are scary this year.

Im not really seeing the NFC suck.  Thr AFC has flipped the strength as the better conf.  But the NFC is far from bare.

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

I think the AFC is much better then the NFC. Watson ran into a lot of good QB’s and teams in his playoff games. 

Ehh NFC was better before this last year.  9ers got depleted and Brees got old quick.  

Watson has been around but not like he was in the thick of the Pats Colts Steelers years.  

They were a poorly ran franchise with a bonehead coach gm.   Same as the Cowboys.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

Ehh NFC was better before this last year.  9ers got depleted and Brees got old quick.  

Watson has been around but not like he was in the thick of the Pats Colts Steelers years.  

They were a poorly ran franchise with a bonehead coach gm.   Same as the Cowboys.  

Oh yeah, Houston is/was a mess. But Watsons road was still more difficult than Daks would be with a home game. 

[Cruzer 1,995]

4 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

If your QB makes 50% of your cap and everyone else is cheap, you can still win if those guys are good

Nobody is winning anything if their QB is eating up 50% of the cap. 

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Oh yeah, Houston is/was a mess. But Watsons road was still more difficult than Daks would be with a home game. 

Brock Osweiler has as many playoff qins as Watson.  Watson beat the very green Bills and a raw Allen at home....barely.  should have lost.  They lost to a Luck led Colts team 21-7. 

NFC East is bad right now.  I wont debate that the division is up for grabs. I just think their roster sucks and they are by no means a contender.  

Damned if you do damned if you dont I suppose.  I just like the way other teams attack building a roster.  Throwing a bunch of money at Dak with a terrible roster is a spin wheels recipe.  I would say take QB out of the equation and they have the worst roster in the worst division.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

Brock Osweiler has as many playoff qins as Watson.  Watson beat the very green Bills and a raw Allen at home....barely.  should have lost.  They lost to a Luck led Colts team 21-7. 

NFC East is bad right now.  I wont debate that the division is up for grabs. I just think their roster sucks and they are by no means a contender.  

Damned if you do damned if you dont I suppose.  I just like the way other teams attack building a roster.  Throwing a bunch of money at Dak with a terrible roster is a spin wheels recipe.  I would say take QB out of the equation and they have the worst roster in the worst division.

I’d like to have that WR group. Lamb looks like a big time player. Cooper is a game changer when he shows up. Sometimes he doesn’t. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,552]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Think I watched every Tampa game this year. Never thought I was looking at a dominant team 

After their bye week, Week 13, the Bucs went 8-0... 3-0 in road games vs playoff teams, 1-0 at home vs a playoff team.  Of those 8 teams, 3 ranked in the top 10 in defense (to which they averaged 30 ppg), in all 8, they averaged 33.9 ppg (which would be #1 in the NFL).  In those 8 games, they played against 4 top 11 offenses, (to which they averaged giving up 19.5 pp), in all 8, they averaged giving up 17 ppg (which would be #1 in the NFL).  In those 8 games, their average margin of victory was 33.9-17... vs the 4 playoff teams they were 30-19.5.  Both of those margins of victory would put that at #1 in the NFL.

Keeping in mind, you're talking about the 3rd highest scoring offense throughout the NFL regular season and a top 10 defense.  Their overall point differential was 4th in the NFL with the 6th toughest schedule in the league.

Considering the lack of offseason and very little time to prepare, I think dominant is a fairly good adjective to describe the 2020 Super Bowl Champion Buccaneers.

 

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’d like to have that WR group. Lamb looks like a big time player. Cooper is a game changer when he shows up. Sometimes he doesn’t. 

Sure.  They have Dak.  WRs.  And nothing.  Giants have a better roster top to bottom.  

[TimmySmith 2,782]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’d like to have that WR group. Lamb looks like a big time player. Cooper is a game changer when he shows up. Sometimes he doesn’t. 

Zeke ain't bad, IF they give him the ball.  They were out of so many games last year he never touched it.  On D they have very little.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

After their bye week, Week 13, the Bucs went 8-0... 3-0 in road games vs playoff teams, 1-0 at home vs a playoff team.  Of those 8 teams, 3 ranked in the top 10 in defense (to which they averaged 30 ppg), in all 8, they averaged 33.9 ppg (which would be #1 in the NFL).  In those 8 games, they played against 4 top 11 offenses, (to which they averaged giving up 19.5 pp), in all 8, they averaged giving up 17 ppg (which would be #1 in the NFL).  In those 8 games, their average margin of victory was 33.9-17... vs the 4 playoff teams they were 30-19.5.  Both of those margins of victory would put that at #1 in the NFL.

Keeping in mind, you're talking about the 3rd highest scoring offense throughout the NFL regular season and a top 10 defense.  Their overall point differential was 4th in the NFL with the 6th toughest schedule in the league.

Considering the lack of offseason and very little time to prepare, I think dominant is a fairly good adjective to describe the 2020 Super Bowl Champion Buccaneers.

 

Yeah. I didn’t see that. I don’t think anyone else did. Last three games, Atlanta, Detroit, Atlanta, drew Washington in the first round.  Please don’t throw around stats without some context. 

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Just now, TimmySmith said:

Zeke ain't bad, IF they give him the ball.  They were out of so many games last year he never touched it.  On D they have very little.

I dont watch all the Dallas games.  But from what I do see....Zeke is just another guy.  Like most RBs.  Dime a dozen.  No better than Chris Carson.  Probably worse.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Sure.  They have Dak.  WRs.  And nothing.  Giants have a better roster top to bottom.  

The Giants have a lot of work to do. The defense is on it’s way, the offense can’t get out of its own way. It’s pathetic. I don’t think one offensive player besides Barkley would start for the Cowboys. None of the Wr’s would. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,552]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yeah. I didn’t see that. I don’t think anyone else did. Last three games, Atlanta, Detroit, Atlanta, drew Washington in the first round.  Please don’t throw around stats without some context. 

Because you choose not to.  As I said, season long... they had a top 10 defense, a top 5 offense with the 6th toughest schedule in the NFL.  They had 5 wins vs playoff teams.  How many had more?  KC?  Pretty sure that's it.  This is with a new QB and no offseason to get acclimated.  I'd say that's pretty dominant.  You know what else supports that assertion?  The Super Bowl trophy.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I dont watch all the Dallas games.  But from what I do see....Zeke is just another guy.  Like most RBs.  Dime a dozen.  No better than Chris Carson.  Probably worse.

On the low end, he seems to be a 1200-8 , 50-400-2, guy.  Hardly a dime a dozen. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Because you choose not to.  As I said, season long... they had a top 10 defense, a top 5 offense with the 6th toughest schedule in the NFL.  They had 5 wins vs playoff teams.  How many had more?  KC?  Pretty sure that's it.  This is with a new QB and no offseason to get acclimated.  I'd say that's pretty dominant.  You know what else supports that assertion?  The Super Bowl trophy.

Not good enough for you tonnage a championship season? You need to be called dominant as well? This years Tampa team will never rank high on the super bowl champions of past list. Not even in the top half. Sorry.  The great ones win their division 

[TBayXXXVII 2,552]

Dallas' garbage defense and shotty OLine made Dallas' running game crappy.  No RB is good without a competent OLine blocking for them.  Elliott's ypc with Dak in the first 5 games was 4.09, in the last 10 it was 3.97.  Not really much of a difference.

[TBayXXXVII 2,552]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Not good enough for you tonnage a championship season? You need to be called dominant as well? This years Tampa team will never rank high on the super bowl champions of past list. Not even in the top half. Sorry.  The great ones win their division 

Who said anything about all-time?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

5 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Who said anything about all-time?

Aren’t we measuring dominant championship teams? The 2020 Bucs ain’t one. It’s ok. Two of the Giants SB winning teams weren’t either. I can deal with it. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,552]

24 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Nobody is winning anything if their QB is eating up 50% of the cap. 

Geez, that was just an example.    The point was that the cap % isn't more relevant than the makeup of the team.  If you have a handful of guys around 10% (and the QB isn't one of them), then all of a sudden, he's #1 or top 3, that's not a good sign.  If your top few guys around 8% or less and your QB is around 15%, then that's a great sign... if those other players are good.

Right now, KC is about $18.5M over the cap.  They need to cut about $28M from their roster to give them about $10M in draft money and in-season expenses.  That's if they don't re-sign any free agents.  Mahomes is only going to make 13% of the teams cap.  Where's that $28M coming from?  Contract re-negotiations... pushing the expense down the line?  At some point, they'll need to pay the piper.  How's this for a prediction?  The upcoming season, KC will be fine because Mahomes isn't really "cashing in".  His big number hits in 2022.  From 2022-2024, KC will fail to win more than 1 (if any), playoff games in any of those years.  I think KC will still be good because Mahomes is an elite QB.  Teams in those situations without an elite QB will not fair as well.  That won't happen until the later years in their contracts when other teams' QB's pass them and they had to make cuts to hurt their teams... and as the cap goes up.  For the most part, any team that gives their QB a new deal at top money, is pretty much guaranteeing limited, if any, playoff success for the next 2 to 3 seasons.

[listen2me 23 1,873]

11 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

On the low end, he seems to be a 1200-8 , 50-400-2, guy.  Hardly a dime a dozen. 

Put a lot of backs behind that line.  With those passing weapons.  Give them 25 carries.  And they produce the same stats.  If you want to go by stats then James Robinson is a better player.  

Zeke is slow.  Through 5 seasons he has 1650 touches.  And he has only played 1 full 16 game season.  The tires are already worn down and he isnt 26 yet.  

If im plucking RBs from rosters to replace Aaron Jones for the Packers.....Zeke is way down my list.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,552]

9 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Aren’t we measuring dominant championship teams? The 2020 Bucs ain’t one. It’s ok. Two of the Giants SB winning teams weren’t either. I can deal with it. 

Your original quote was: "Think I watched every Tampa game this year. Never thought I was looking at a dominant team".  I didn't see a mention of "all-time".  If you implied that, then I missed it.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

6 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Your original quote was: "Think I watched every Tampa game this year. Never thought I was looking at a dominant team".  I didn't see a mention of "all-time".  If you implied that, then I missed it.

I’m measuring them against dominant teams. You aren’t? 

[TBayXXXVII 2,552]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’m measuring them against dominant teams. You aren’t? 

I'm measuring them against their peers (the 2020 season).

[Hardcore troubadour 15,500]

Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

I'm measuring them against their peers (the 2020 season).

Yeah. And they didn’t dominate. They didn’t even win their division. Good team that got hot.  Happens all the time.