Instant Fantasy Analysis - RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire, Chiefs

[stonewall 647]

I don't think anyone expects CEH to come out and be a horrible RB. Really, I think all of this boils down to the (warranted) nervousness that owners must have in spending a mid-late first round pick on an unproven rookie...with no preseason game experience, no less. If he were a late second or early third, it would be different, because there is some risk baked into his ADP. He may perform exceptionally well this season......but if he doesnt, every FF owner realizes that a first round bust is quite daunting to recover from.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

That's why I don't understand why everyone is arguing with me.

Clyde's pass protection skills are a moot point, since his purpose isn't to pass protect, it's to receive passes.

When the elf is right, the elf is right.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

23 minutes ago, stonewall said:

I don't think anyone expects CEH to come out and be a horrible RB. Really, I think all of this boils down to the (warranted) nervousness that owners must have in spending a mid-late first round pick on an unproven rookie...with no preseason game experience, no less. If he were a late second or early third, it would be different, because there is some risk baked into his ADP. He may perform exceptionally well this season......but if he doesnt, every FF owner realizes that a first round bust is quite daunting to recover from.

Saquon played an entire 2 series of 1 preseason game his rookie year. Gurley didn’t play any preseason games. Zeke missed the first 2 and played in 1 game amassing a vital, career saving 7 carries. Missing practice worries me but I could give 2 bleeps about a RB in preseason. 

[AxeElf 787]

3 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Saquon played an entire 2 series of 1 preseason game his rookie year. Gurley didn’t play any preseason games. Zeke missed the first 2 and played in 1 game amassing a vital, career saving 7 carries. Missing practice worries me but I could give 2 bleeps about a RB in preseason. 

I think perhaps he's suggesting that the preseason would not so much have benefitted Clyde as it would the owners who could have seen a little live-action confirmation of their expectations before they spent their #1 pick on him.

And that's true.  Drafting Clyde is a leap of faith.  The odds are against it paying off--but it could be a championship move.  It's about the biggest risk-reward discrepancy out there, and not suitable for the faint of heart.

For myself, I think there are safer ways to a championship.  I'd rather have Derrick Henry, even in full-PPR scoring, for instance.  Probly Joe Mixon, too.  But for Chiefs homers or headline chasers, it's a ballsy but legitimate move.  Seeing Clyde in preseason could have made projecting his production a little easier.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

6 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

I think perhaps he's suggesting that the preseason would not so much have benefitted Clyde as it would the owners who could have seen a little live-action confirmation of their expectations before they spent their #1 pick on him.

And that's true.  Drafting Clyde is a leap of faith.  The odds are against it paying off--but it could be a championship move.  It's about the biggest risk-reward discrepancy out there, and not suitable for the faint of heart.

For myself, I think there are safer ways to a championship.  I'd rather have Derrick Henry, even in full-PPR scoring, for instance.  Probly Joe Mixon, too.  But for Chiefs homers or headline chasers, it's a ballsy but legitimate move.  Seeing Clyde in preseason could have made projecting his production a little easier.

I think my point is pretty clear that the preseason does not matter. I’m sure I can find you some stinkers who are starting NFL RBs currently. 
 

Especially when you consider preseason offenses and defenses are as vanilla as it gets. No one is actually playing their cards out there. 
 

As far as preseason I do use it to see how young QBs and WRs look. Hopefully find some chemistry and/or positives. But I don’t remember the last time a bad preseason threw me off the #1 RB selected in the actual draft. 
 

The first name that comes to mind is Bishop Sankey? But if you told me Sankey was the starting RB for the best offense in the league, with no competition for touches, of course id want to invest.

 

Reid already showed us what can happen when he has total faith in a RB (Kareem Hunt) and that’s the upside. When Kareem was starting and healthy, Damien Williams was just an afterthought. FWIW it seems Reid never fully trusted Damien either.

 

The way I see it, the writings on the wall.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

17 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

For myself, I think there are safer ways to a championship.  I'd rather have Derrick Henry, even in full-PPR scoring, for instance.  Probly Joe Mixon, too.  But for Chiefs homers or headline chasers, it's a ballsy but legitimate move.  Seeing Clyde in preseason could have made projecting his production a little easier.

I’m avoiding Henry like the plague in PPR. His value is completely buoyed by the amount of TDs he scores. All the hype is he should be targeted in the passing game more, but if that doesn’t materialize and his TDs go down, then he’s basically an expensive 2016 Legarette Blount.

[AxeElf 787]

3 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

I think my point is pretty clear that the preseason does not matter. I’m sure I can find you some stinkers who are starting NFL RBs currently. 

I thought my point was pretty clear too, but it seems to have zoomed by you again.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

5 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

I thought my point was pretty clear too, but it seems to have zoomed by you again.

No I get it, 

it appeases other fantasy owners to which my rebuttal is, it doesn’t matter lol. For every example of a RB performing well in preseason I can counter with someone who stunk or either didn’t play at all.

 

Am I missing something?

[AxeElf 787]

1 minute ago, LoOnAtIk said:

I’m avoiding Henry like the plague in PPR. His value is completely buoyed by the amount of TDs he scores.

I'm talking about DERRICK Henry of the Titans; you know, last year's rushing YARDAGE champion?  Sure, I love the 20 TD potential too, but c'mon, it's not his only asset.

In his last 9 games he averaged 26 touches, 156 yards, 1.3 TDs, and 25 fantasy points per game.  If he gains some receptions, great, but I'm not even counting on them.

[AxeElf 787]

7 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

No I get it, 

it appeases other fantasy owners to which my rebuttal is, it doesn’t matter lol. For every example of a RB performing well in preseason I can counter with someone who stunk or either didn’t play at all.

 

Am I missing something?

Yes, you're saying preseason doesn't matter to YOU, but I'm saying that it matters to fantasy owners who could take comfort in drafting Clyde so high (or in dropping him down their rankings), based on what they see in preseason REGARDLESS of whether or not that perception is justified.  You're focusing on what preseason "really" means, in the context of real football, while the point is about the meaning it has for the fans in fantasy football.

And it wasn't even my point to begin with, so...

[jrokh 618]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

That's why I don't understand why everyone is arguing with me.

Clyde's pass protection skills are a moot point, since his purpose isn't to pass protect, it's to receive passes.

If CEH isn’t on the field on third downs he won’t be catching passes, comprende?

[LoOnAtIk 75]

1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

Yes, you're saying preseason doesn't matter to YOU, but I'm saying that it matters to fantasy owners who could take comfort in drafting Clyde so high (or in dropping him down their rankings), based on what they see in preseason REGARDLESS of whether or not that perception is justified.  You're focusing on what preseason "really" means, in the context of real football, while the point is about the meaning it has for the fans in fantasy football.

And it wasn't even my point to begin with, so...

I generally enjoy the elf lol he’s by far the most colorful character among these threads. The problem is his inconsistencies and the irony of when someone agrees with him, he still finds a way to change the narrative to disagree with them. Hence, casting himself on this island that only The Elf has permanent residence. The island of quintessential fantasy football takes, where the elf is never wrong.

 

Am I missing something here too? Lol

[cmh6476 1,154]

Last year the Patriots, Lions, Chargers and 49ers all found some success playing tight man press on the receivers and cover 3 variance. 

If teams try that this year I imagine the Chiefs will just get the ball to CEH in the flat or middle of the field to get a 1on1 matchup with the LB.  The addition of CEH just allows a QB with a tremendous skillset to read the field and take advantage of what's being given to them by the defense.

[AxeElf 787]

33 minutes ago, jrokh said:

If CEH isn’t on the field on third downs he won’t be catching passes, comprende?

Yes, and if he is, he will--therefore, his pass protection skills are moot.

[cmh6476 1,154]

I don't think it's an issue.  If it was, we would have heard about it, like we were last year with Thompson.  Or they probably would have worked to have a place on the team for Washington.  Since they only are going with CEH, Williams and Thompson I'm guessing they feel pretty good about CEH's role in pass protection.

[weepaws 3,419]

Yeah they didn’t go get another rb after D Williams decide to take the season off. 

I think CEH is going to be worthy of a rb1 first round draft pick.  

If you own him enjoy the season. 

[justforbeer 42]

Well, we will find out tomorrow night! Cannot WAIT!

I am ready for some football.

[weepaws 3,419]

Didn’t Henry have the second highest per game avg for Rbs in ppr last season, I don’t understand why someone would want to keep away from him.  

[Matt Mueller 148]

3 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Saquon played an entire 2 series of 1 preseason game his rookie year. Gurley didn’t play any preseason games. Zeke missed the first 2 and played in 1 game amassing a vital, career saving 7 carries. Missing practice worries me but I could give 2 bleeps about a RB in preseason. 

These guys were also clearly consenus top backs in their class.   Saquon and Zeke are probably among the best NFL players drafted this past decade.  Gurley was elite.

 

CEH was not clearly the best runninb back talent in this class.  If Taylor or someone went there I think the comp would fit more.  This was a bit of a suprising pick.  

[jrokh 618]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Yes, and if he is, he will--therefore, his pass protection skills are moot.

He won’t be if he can’t pass protect, it is a prerequisite for rbs on 3rd down. Maybe watch a football game and you will see for yourself 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

41 minutes ago, Matt Mueller said:

These guys were also clearly consenus top backs in their class.   Saquon and Zeke are probably among the best NFL players drafted this past decade.  Gurley was elite.

 

CEH was not clearly the best runninb back talent in this class.  If Taylor or someone went there I think the comp would fit more.  This was a bit of a suprising pick.  

Agree it was surprising but I would trust Andy Reid’s assessment of a player over yours and mine. 
 

I liked Taylor and Swift over CEH also prior to the draft. Andy Reid liked CEH over those 2 because I assume he fits their scheme better. That tells me perhaps my initial rankings were off. It happens. 
 

Did many of us expect KC to pick a RB with their first pick? It didn’t seem to be an area of need. But they did, on top of that his only competition for touches opted out. The formula is pretty simple.

 

A RB with no competition for touches on the best offense in the NFL is worthy of a top pick. I remember Damien getting hyped into the 1st round last year before they signed McCoy. Fact remains they drafted him and signed no one after Damien opted out. Writing is on the wall. Doesn’t matter if you think Taylor or Swift could’ve been better.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

27 minutes ago, jrokh said:

He won’t be if he can’t pass protect, it is a prerequisite for rbs on 3rd down. Maybe watch a football game and you will see for yourself 

I would think Andy has a little more foresight than drafting a RB who can’t pass pro. You would think he wants to protect his $500 million investment. CEH will just be another cog in the offense.

 

The only thing that would nuke his value IMO would be an injury to mahomes. That’s the only thing.

[weepaws 3,419]

10 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

I would think Andy has a little more foresight than drafting a RB who can’t pass pro. You would think he wants to protect his $500 million investment. CEH will just be another cog in the offense.

 

The only thing that would nuke his value IMO would be an injury to mahomes. That’s the only thing.

How about a injury to CEH? 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

Just now, weepaws said:

How about a injury to CEH? 

An injury can happen to anyone. 

[jrokh 618]

52 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

I would think Andy has a little more foresight than drafting a RB who can’t pass pro. You would think he wants to protect his $500 million investment. CEH will just be another cog in the offense.

 

The only thing that would nuke his value IMO would be an injury to mahomes. That’s the only thing.

I agree but that isn’t the argument Axe was making. I think he is probably ok at it

[LoOnAtIk 75]

9 minutes ago, jrokh said:

I agree but that isn’t the argument Axe was making. I think he is probably ok at it

I think what axe is saying is that he might not even be on the field for a package that calls for a RB to block for Mahomes. In any event if he is blocking, he equally cannot accrue points. 
 

So whether or not he’s good or bad at pass pro won’t have much if any impact on his fantasy value. 

[jrokh 618]

1 minute ago, LoOnAtIk said:

I think what axe is saying is that he might not even be on the field for a package that calls for a RB to block for Mahomes. In any event if he is blocking, he equally cannot accrue points. 
 

So whether or not he’s good or bad at pass pro won’t have much if any impact on his fantasy value. 

Now I get what he’s saying but it’s not true. If CEH isn’t competent in pass pro then Darrel williams will get third and long/medium, which most certainly will affect his Fantasy value. But if he is competent, then yeah it won’t affect him.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

13 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Now I get what he’s saying but it’s not true. If CEH isn’t competent in pass pro then Darrel williams will get third and long/medium, which most certainly will affect his Fantasy value. But if he is competent, then yeah it won’t affect him.

Not necessarily. Again, only Reid knows what play they’re calling and whatever package of audibles. 
 

If for whatever reason Williams was a better blocker than CEH, he might be in for plays that call for an extra blocker. But Williams cannot accrue points while blocking either lol

 

That doesn’t necessarily translate into carries or touches. If CEH is the better homerun threat which we all assume he is, if the play calls for a run, wouldn’t you want your more dynamic runner out there?

[weepaws 3,419]

1 hour ago, LoOnAtIk said:

An injury can happen to anyone. 

Right, and the same for Mahomes, so an injury to CEH would also nuke his value.  Maybe? 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

31 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Right, and the same for Mahomes, so an injury to CEH would also nuke his value.  Maybe? 

I think that goes without saying for anyone and everyone, but thank you for saying it weepaws.

[weepaws 3,419]

24 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

I think that goes without saying for anyone and everyone, but thank you for saying it weepaws.

Just wanted to make that clear.  

Im glad I did.  

Thanks. 

[JagFan 197]

The biggest issue with CEH is the fantasy playoff run.  Rookie RBs normally tend to wear down at the end of the season.  I’d have to go back and look, but I believe Hunt did his rookie year.  And yes, I may be mistaken....and yes, I know there are examples that are pro and con to this comment.  I own zero shares of CEH because I wasn’t in the position to choose him in either of my leagues.  If he’d fallen to 9, I probably would’ve drafted him.  As stated above, we will learn quite a bit tomorrow night.

[JagFan 197]

5 minutes ago, JagFan said:

The biggest issue with CEH is the fantasy playoff run.  Rookie RBs normally tend to wear down at the end of the season.  I’d have to go back and look, but I believe Hunt did his rookie year.  And yes, I may be mistaken....and yes, I know there are examples that are pro and con to this comment.  I own zero shares of CEH because I wasn’t in the position to choose him in either of my leagues.  If he’d fallen to 9, I probably would’ve drafted him.  As stated above, we will learn quite a bit tomorrow night.

Just looked. He slumped from Oct-Nov, but was pretty studly the weeks 14-16...

I stand corrected.  

[AxeElf 787]

4 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Agree it was surprising but I would trust Andy Reid’s assessment of a player over yours and mine. 
 

I liked Taylor and Swift over CEH also prior to the draft. Andy Reid liked CEH over those 2 because I assume he fits their scheme better.

 

4 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

I would think Andy has a little more foresight than drafting a RB who can’t pass pro. You would think he wants to protect his $500 million investment. CEH will just be another cog in the offense.

The story goes that Reid called Mahomes to ask who they should pick, and Mahomes said Clyde.  I don't think Mahomes picked him for his ability to pass protect.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

Anything from that first half to concern us going forward? 
 

He looks fantastic IMO. Didn’t come out at the goal line either. He was stopped but still not too concerned.

[stonewall 647]

I've seen him now in live NFL action, and he looks fantastic.....as advertised.....and haven't even seen his receiving game yet.

Williams is definitely gonna get some burn, but CEH will make his owners quite happy if he can stay healthy.

[kilroy69 1,273]

He flat out ran away from the texans players on that td run. For a second there was a shot it was just gonna be a short run but he turned on the jets. 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

6 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

He flat out ran away from the texans players on that td run. For a second there was a shot it was just gonna be a short run but he turned on the jets. 

And the juke move he put on #20 was a thing of beauty. Left him in the dust.

[polecatt 489]

Certainly looks like a solid RB1 so far.

The thing is, we heard how great he was in the passing game, and he's tearing it up on the ground, yet to catch a pass

[polecatt 489]

1 minute ago, LoOnAtIk said:

And the juke move he put on #20 was a thing of beauty. Left him in the dust.

He scatted sideways past like the center and guard, reminded me of a deer

This guy is insanely agile