Ahmaud Arbery

[tanatastic 2,062]

1 minute ago, peenie said:

It did not look like a home that was lived in but rather a home that was being built and possibly for sale soon. Geez, I look in the window of homes that are for sale and look peek in the back yard. I sure hope no one shoots me.

You could be picking daisies, if you attack a person with a gun, you will probably get shot.

[RLLD 4,230]

OK rewatched it.

His running stride does not appear to be an evasive action, he seemed to be almost casually jogging toward the truck. It appeared as though the driver was already out of the vehicle and standing near the front.

Then as the moron jogged toward the vehicle he made an athletic move to the right side at the last moment to apparently attempt to surprise the yahoo standing near the front by a simple flanking maneuver, which is exactly what I might try if I were attacking, pretty smart....good instincts.

Then he assaults the guy on the ground, does a decent job of preventing the guy from using his gun at first, but perhaps lost his grip and the victim then shot him....

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, peenie said:

It did not look like a home that was lived in but rather a home that was being built and possibly for sale soon. Geez, I look in the window of homes that are for sale and look peek in the back yard. I sure hope no one shoots me.

It's not his property or place to be. And most of the time people put up for sale signs and still live in their homes while they are selling. You may want to just call the number on the sign in you want to start snooping around someone else's property.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

2 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

Nothing on earth could prompt a sane unarmed man to charge two men with guns. Even “these aren’t loaded”, cuz they are still holding blunt weapons.

Unless the guys chasing him were known to be with guns and he was running towards some guys that he was not sure had guns.

Or he had mental issues. 

[RLLD 4,230]

Just now, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Unless the guys chasing him were known to be with guns and he was running towards some guys that he was not sure had guns.

Or he had mental issues. 

Let's remove the guns....

Does it follow any notion of rational thought for you that you would even consider attacking two rednecks in a pickup truck? 

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 minute ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Unless the guys chasing him were known to be with guns and he was running towards some guys that he was not sure had guns.

Or he had mental issues. 

Or he was Rambo. Maybe they drew First Blood.

[iam90sbaby 2,610]

15 minutes ago, BiffTannen said:

I doubt it even goes to trial. Hopefully the McMichaels sue Reggie's family for defamation and take all $3.00 they have to their name. 

Hopefully. 

Some food for thought, I wonder what would of happened if the two rednecks walked outside of their home and charged at the Black Panthers that set up a road block outside their house? They would have got shot and BlackPeopleTwitter and peenie would be celebrating them exercising their 2A and calling us racist. FAXS.

[Utilit99 4,099]

All I can say, you would never catch me snooping around other people's properties on the south side of Chicago. You know why? Because I would expect to get my ass beat to a pulp or shot by a lot of angry black dudes wondering why whitey is snooping around and in their homes.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Let's remove the guns....

Does it follow any notion of rational thought for you that you would even consider attacking two rednecks in a pickup truck? 

If there are 5 guys chasing you and you have 2 guys in your way, do you take on the 2 or reverse course and go after the 5?

Here is the thing - none of us have all of the info and we certainly don't want to go based on what is being reported in the media, so doesn't it make sense to let the GBI do their thing instead of getting into a race baiting discussion on a low-rent message bored?

[tanatastic 2,062]

2 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

All I can say, you would never catch me snooping around other people's properties on the south side of Chicago. You know why? Because I would expect to get my ass beat to a pulp or shot by a lot of angry black dudes wondering why whitey is snooping around their homes.

Well, if you did, and then found a roadblock of angry black guys with guns in your path. Here’s a pro tip: Run the OTHER focking way!

[Fireballer 2,642]

17 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

I had heard that he was chasing as part of this group of vigilantes, but no one has reported as to what happened prior to the recording starting (beyond what was in the house).  

 

Father and son knew him.  Police report said he at one time tried to cut off dude with his car.  Everyone keep in mind, according to Pops, this deadly encounter occurred after they had already chased him trying to intercept him and cut off his route multiple times.

[The Observer 641]

23 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

The part I cannot understand is the two men essentially set up a road block, both easily seen with guns. 

Why did this dude continue to jog at them and then whip around the corner and confront the one guy?

Weird.

Black man sees two white guys that look like they do, with guns, setting up a road block in front of him.  He probably knows a bit about history. And envisioned things in his head that you would never envision. Fight or die. And he died

[Bier Meister 1,710]

45 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

If your instinct when faced with men with guns in a favorable high ground and protected position is to try and take a gun, you have terrible instincts. This was a clear no win situation for him. They were just trying to be dicks, scare him, harass him, question him or whatever. They only shot when he went for the gun, putting them in a “him or me” situation.

 

41 minutes ago, The Observer said:

Like I said, it turned out to be the wrong choice, but there was a good chance they were going to kill him anyway. Why else have the gun in your hands?  His choice was bad for them too.  He lost his life. They became murderers. Hopefully the next time two rednecks decide to hunt down a black guy for kicks, they aren't stupid enough to have a gun in their hands.  If they're still scared with outnumbering him 2 to 1, perhaps they should have brought more white guys with them.

Tant-  I have no idea what my mindset would be if I were black and two white dudes are giving me directives with a gun/guns in their hands...... in the South.  I think it is a fair possibility that he may have thought that he could end up dead even if he complied, so he made a move. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

Well, if you did, and then found a roadblock of angry black guys with guns in your path. Here’s a pro tip: Run the OTHER focking way!

I know right. The moment I realized in that video the guy was running AT the truck, my own instincts were like, "TURN RIGHT!! GET OFF THE FVCKING ROAD NOW!!"

[Utilit99 4,099]

3 minutes ago, The Observer said:

Black man sees two white guys that look like they do, with guns, setting up a road block in front of him.  He probably knows a bit about history. And envisioned things in his head that you would never envision. Fight or die. And he died

He probably knows a bit about history and yet he still went into someone else's home. He must be a really bright guy.

[RLLD 4,230]

3 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

If there are 5 guys chasing you and you have 2 guys in your way, do you take on the 2 or reverse course and go after the 5?

Here is the thing - none of us have all of the info and we certainly don't want to go based on what is being reported in the media, so doesn't it make sense to let the GBI do their thing instead of getting into a race baiting discussion on a low-rent message bored?

If you can have the hordes of Wakanda come to your aid then you dont need the soul stone.... since we are fabricating scenario factors....

So you are now creating a scenario where he was being chased by 5 guys.......decided to attack the two rather than evade some other way.....because....he had a chance to defeat the two in front of him before the 5 chasing him caught up? I mean....what???

I am watching the video and behaviors. From his actions I can discern some things, he moved in a tactically sound manner to execute an attack, I cannot be sure why he felt that was his best option. Strategically it was not the right move in any way.

Maybe its a mental issue or something......one would have to be pretty stupid or crazy to assault given the circumstances we saw

[RLLD 4,230]

4 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Father and son knew him.  Police report said he at one time tried to cut off dude with his car.  Everyone keep in mind, according to Pops, this deadly encounter occurred after they had already chased him trying to intercept him and cut off his route multiple times.

Whoah....these two yahoos and him had interacted prior to this, they seemed to be trying to "get after" him and his response was attack them. thats even worse.  If two rednecks in a truck start chasing me I am evading at all costs, NO WAY do I run at them.....not a focking chance....this man was mentally focked up or on drugs or something....

[MDC 7,411]

Charging someone with a gun is dumb. On the other hand, having never had a gun held on me who knows how you’d respond? Fight or flight, maybe fight kicks in. Bad decision but it’s easy to second guess it with the benefit of hindsight from the comfort of the Internet. 

[The Observer 641]

10 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Father and son knew him.  Police report said he at one time tried to cut off dude with his car.  Everyone keep in mind, according to Pops, this deadly encounter occurred after they had already chased him trying to intercept him and cut off his route multiple times.

They they had a history?  That clearly means they hunted him down.  Life in prison. This was premeditated

[Utilit99 4,099]

They had a history and the black guy went back for more? Sounds like he had a death wish.

When my friend's car once broke down in a bad neighborhood in Chicago the cops stopped and asked us what the fvck were we doing there and that we should get a tow truck and get the hell out ASAP if we knew what was best for us. They said they would drive around every couple minutes to try to keep an eye out.

[RLLD 4,230]

4 minutes ago, MDC said:

Charging someone with a gun is dumb. On the other hand, having never had a gun held on me who knows how you’d respond? Fight or flight, maybe fight kicks in. Bad decision but it’s easy to second guess it with the benefit of hindsight from the comfort of the Internet. 

I think that is a fair statement.  I have been trained to assess risk and tactical execution so my perspective comes from that viewpoint, I understand the consequences of taking on a situation where you are tactically deficient.

[tanatastic 2,062]

Ok I googled what I would say is the justifiable sentence for these guys.

Imperfect self-defense is a common law doctrine recognized by some jurisdictions whereby a defendant may mitigate punishment or sentencing imposed for a crime involving the use of deadly force by claiming, as a partial affirmative defense, the honest but unreasonable belief that the actions were necessary to counter an attack. Not all jurisdictions accept imperfect self-defense as a basis to reduce a murder charge.

These men were attacked by Arbery and had to use deadly force. It’s their own fault for bringing the guns and forcing the altercation, but that’s what happened. 

[The Observer 641]

4 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

Ok I googled what I would say is the justifiable sentence for these guys.

Imperfect self-defense is a common law doctrine recognized by some jurisdictions whereby a defendant may mitigate punishment or sentencing imposed for a crime involving the use of deadly force by claiming, as a partial affirmative defense, the honest but unreasonable belief that the actions were necessary to counter an attack. Not all jurisdictions accept imperfect self-defense as a basis to reduce a murder charge.

These men were attacked by Arbery and had to use deadly force. It’s their own fault for bringing the guns and forcing the altercation, but that’s what happened. 

It doesn't change your views at all knowing that they had an argument weeks before over a traffic incident?  This means they went hunting for him. 

[MDC 7,411]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think that is a fair statement.  I have been trained to assess risk and tactical execution so my perspective comes from that viewpoint, I understand the consequences of taking on a situation where you are tactically deficient.

Yes, we have to compare Arbery’s reaction to your ordinary layperson ... not an average Geek. In addition to our six-figure salaries, supermodel hot wives and 12-inch dongs, most of us have extensive combat training and nerves of steel.  

[KSB2424 3,148]

18 minutes ago, RLLD said:

or on drugs or something....

I am more and more coming to this hypothesis.  It would explain several things:

1. It's very common for drug addicts to scavenge job sites for tools and copper wire to sell for money.  Meth heads are notorious for this in the south, usually its some toothless white dude but it happens a lot.

2. Would explain the idea of running at armed men

[tanatastic 2,062]

Just now, The Observer said:

It doesn't change your views at all knowing that they had an argument weeks before over a traffic incident?  This means they went hunting for him. 

It changes my view of their relationship as a whole but not on the relevant facts of the crime (killing) which are all in the video. I feel the details of when and why are not relevant and don’t excuse either them for menacing him with guns or him for attacking them and forcing them to feel the need for deadly force.

[Fireballer 2,642]

10 minutes ago, The Observer said:

They they had a history?  That clearly means they hunted him down.  Life in prison. This was premeditated

This is the text from the police report.  It looks like, to me, all 3 men with 2 vehicles made attempts to intercept this guy. Roddy was the guy filming.

Subject: fired Officer:
Date: 02/ 23/ 2020
Report:
Brandeberry # 128
On Sunday, February 23, 2020 I responded to the intersection of Satilla
Drive and Holmes Drive in reference to shots fired. While in route I was advised
there were shots fired and a male on the ground " bleeding out " . A short time
later I was advised the male on the ground was deceased.
Upon my arrival I observed Officer Minshew ( 184) setting up a perimeter .
I began speaking with Gregory McMichael who was a witness to the incident .
McMichael stated there have been several Break - ins in the neighborhood and
further the suspect was caught on surveillance video. Mi
his front yard and saw the suspect from the break - ins " hauling ass" down Satilla
Drive toward Burford Drive. McMichael stated he then ran inside his house and
called to Travis ( ) and said " Travis the guy is running down the
street lets go " . McMichael stated he went to his bedroom and grabbed his .
Magnum and Travis grabbed his shotgun because they " didn ' t know if the male was
armed or not " . Michael stated " the other night" they saw the same male and he
stuck his hand down his pants which lead them to believe the male was armed
McMichael stated he and Travis got in the truck and drove down Satilla
Drive toward Burford Drive McMichael stated when they arrived at the
intersection of Satilla Drive and Holmes Drive, they saw the unidentified male
running down Burford drive McMichael then stated Travis drive down Burford and
attempted to cut off the male. stated the unidentified male turned
around and began running back the direction from which he came and " Roddy "
attempted to block him which was unsuccessful Michael stated he then jumped
into the bed of the truck and he and Travis continued to Holmes in an attempt to
intercept him .
McMichael stated they saw the unidentified male and shouted " stop stop ,
we want to talk to you " . Michael stated they pulled up beside the male and
shouted stop again at which time Travis exited the truck with the shotgun .
McMichael stated the unidentified male began to violently attack Travis and the
two men then started fighting over the shotgun at which point Travis fired a
shot and then a second later there was a second shot . Michael stated the male
fell face down on the pavement with his hand under his body. McMichael stated he
rolled the man over to see if the male had a weapon .
I observed blood on McMichael' s hands from rollingthe unidentifiedmale
over. Photographswere taken of McMichaelshands and were uploadedto Spillman
under property number 20 - 03176.
 

[The Observer 641]

1 minute ago, tanatastic said:

It changes my view of their relationship as a whole but not on the relevant facts of the crime (killing) which are all in the video. I feel the details of when and why are not relevant and don’t excuse either them for menacing him with guns or him for attacking them and forcing them to feel the need for deadly force.

They went after the guy with a gun. No different than a person entering your house with a gun. If you fight him thinking he's going to kill you, and you die of a gunshot wound, it doesn't become your fault because you made a bad choice. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

5 minutes ago, MDC said:

Yes, we have to compare Arbery’s reaction to your ordinary layperson ... not an average Geek. In addition to our six-figure salaries, supermodel hot wives and 12-inch dongs, most of us have extensive combat training and nerves of steel.  

Well 2 out 3 aint bad.

[tanatastic 2,062]

1 minute ago, The Observer said:

They went after the guy with a gun. No different than a person entering your house with a gun. If you fight him thinking he's going to kill you, and you die of a gunshot wound, it doesn't become your fault because you made a bad choice. 

I’d call it very different than if they entered his house with guns and he died fighting them off. But I know what you are trying to say.

[The Observer 641]

Just now, tanatastic said:

I’d call it very different than if they entered his house with guns and he died fighting them off. But I know what you are trying to say.

They chased after the guy. Sought him out., It's no different.

[tanatastic 2,062]

3 minutes ago, The Observer said:

They chased after the guy. Sought him out., It's no different.

They intended to detain him, the guns were there to keep order and scare him into compliance. It wasn’t a hunting trip, no one would think they could just get away with that in daylight in public. 
 

Edit: Exactly what Fireballer said below.

[Fireballer 2,642]

Just now, The Observer said:

They chased after the guy. Sought him out., It's no different.

I think if their intent was to kill him, they had ample opportunity in the minutes leading up to the shooting.  I think this is a case of "Billy bada$$ still thinks hes a cop"  and hes gonna arrest this guy.

[Utilit99 4,099]

Let me sum this up for all of you.

A dumb guy with a past of carrying and illegal firearm goes into an area of town where he knows he is not welcome and he enters someone else's home without permission.

That same guy gets caught in the act and runs away. He was spotted by multiple people and was chased by a couple guys with guns.

He somehow gets behind the vehicle which is well ahead of him yet instead of running away, he runs right at them and goes ahead with a full on violent attack in which the victim is then put in a situation to kill or be killed.

So the victim shot his attacker to save his own life.

Up next, another shooting in Chicago.....Just kidding, here's some old footage of Reginald Denny getting what he deserved.

[Fireballer 2,642]

Just now, tanatastic said:

the guns were there to keep order and scare him into compliance. 

Police report said they got guns because they had seen Aubry "reaching in his pants" during a previous sighting and thought he could be armed.  At that point, a rational person says, "we may encounter a guy with a gun, lets leave it to the cops".

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

35 minutes ago, RLLD said:

If you can have the hordes of Wakanda come to your aid then you dont need the soul stone.... since we are fabricating scenario factors....

So you are now creating a scenario where he was being chased by 5 guys.......decided to attack the two rather than evade some other way.....because....he had a chance to defeat the two in front of him before the 5 chasing him caught up? I mean....what???

I am watching the video and behaviors. From his actions I can discern some things, he moved in a tactically sound manner to execute an attack, I cannot be sure why he felt that was his best option. Strategically it was not the right move in any way.

Maybe its a mental issue or something......one would have to be pretty stupid or crazy to assault given the circumstances we saw

You asked in what rational situation someone might go after 2 guys, so I gave you one.  I had previously asked (as did HT) if this guy had some mental issues and we still don't have toxicology on anyone.  All sorts of variables at this point, which is why I am waiting to hear with the investigation (now that there is one) uncovers.  

[tanatastic 2,062]

What Util describes above is exactly what happened and all anyone needs to know. It’s open and shut as far as I’m concerned. No other facts or what ifs or whys matter. I expect riots from the black community if the men aren’t treated as cold blooded killers though. 

[Fireballer 2,642]

2 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Let me sum this up for all of you.

A dumb guy with a past of carrying and illegal firearm goes into an area of town where he knows he is not welcome and he enters someone else's home without permission.

That same guy gets caught in the act and runs away. He was spotted by multiple people and was chased by a couple guys with guns.

He somehow gets behind the vehicle which is well ahead of him yet instead of running away, he runs right at them and goes ahead with a full on violent attack in which the victim is then put in a situation to kill or be killed.

So the victim shot his attacker to save his own life.

Up next, another shooting in Chicago.....Just kidding, here's some old footage of Reginald Denny getting what he deserved.

The kicker here is gonna be whether the attempt to detain is legal.  If they were attempting an illegal act, the self defense is out the window.  Again, this guy is also running away from the guy filming who had tried to previously cut him off.  I bet if son doesnt walk around the front of the truck to encounter him, homeboy simply runs by.

[RLLD 4,230]

21 minutes ago, MDC said:

Yes, we have to compare Arbery’s reaction to your ordinary layperson ... not an average Geek. In addition to our six-figure salaries, supermodel hot wives and 12-inch dongs, most of us have extensive combat training and nerves of steel.  

  iknowright

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

  iknowright

It doesn't take extensive training to stay out of other people's homes uninvited. Or to not have a past of carrying an illegal firearm into a school. Or to know if you are taking major risks of going into certain areas of town where you have had previous run ins with people that live there.

It also doesn't take extensive training to see a truck 30 yards away with guys that have guns drawn and go in a different direction.