Why do we have a vaccine against a virus?

[GutterBoy 2,899]

9 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

So old timey vaccines were more powerful? Such that you only needed one, for life?  Nowadays you need 2 or 3 or yearly...

I'm sure that has nothing to do with money. 

Also, I've never heard of a tetanus shot being called a vaccine. Even my Dr. called it a tetanus "shot" the last time I got one. 

Shots are not vaccines. 

 

Shots are not vaccines?

Ok look, at certain points in your life, you have to realize that you don't know everything about everything.

You're there bro.  Just stop.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/tetanus/index.html

[TimHauck 2,847]

8 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

So old timey vaccines were more powerful? Such that you only needed one, for life?  Nowadays you need 2 or 3 or yearly...

I'm sure that has nothing to do with money. 

 

The other thing about the “well I’ve never gotten measles!” argument is that there hasn’t been a true outbreak of most of those diseases in a really long time.   If 10%+ of the country was walking around with measles all at one time there’d likely be some more “breakthrough cases”

[GutterBoy 2,899]

9 minutes ago, nobody said:

Does this mofo know that the flu shot changes every year, and does provide immunization against the strains contained in that year's shot?

If they just said the same thing about the covid shot, we wouldn't have a problem.  They didn't.  they said if you got it, you wouldn't get COVID.  You wouldn't spread the vid, and if you didn't get the shot, you would kill grandma.  Most vaccines actually do work that way in general.  The flu shot is more unique in that it addresses strains, but unless they say, "Oh by the way, this is like the flu shot.  It might work or it might not," people are going to naturally assume it's similar to all the other vaccines we take.

Now he's going to go run and find examples of some more vaccines that need boosters that no one heard of.  Go run to your google.  "Oooh here's a vaccine for dypfocockysuckulous that has to be taken every 6 months."

Bro is lost.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

5 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

But they changed the definition of a vaccine, substantively, to make it fit.  I feel like I'm having a Spinal Tap "this one goes to 11" discussion.   

No they didn't.

They changed the definition to make it more accurate.  It was not because the covid vaccine was not a real vaccine.

Holy sh1t you people are insane.

[nobody 2,666]

It is a vaccine.  It's just a sh¡tty one that they claimed was good and forced people to take, and then tried to force kids to take even though they didn't need it.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

Just now, nobody said:

It is a vaccine.  It's just a sh¡tty one that they claimed was good and forced people to take, and then tried to force kids to take even though they didn't need it.

Atta boy.

[5-Points 3,521]

13 minutes ago, nobody said:

You were supposed to assume that it was like the flu shot and not like the 9 out of 10 other vaccines you took where after 1 or 2 doses you're good for life even though everyone was saying they worked like the 9 out of 10 other vaccines that work for life after taking 1 or 2 doses.  Everyone was supposed to assume they were full of sh¡t, and if you didn't you were dumb.  Hell, I actually did know they were full of sh¡t and they think I'm dumb for thinking that was too large of an expectation.

Think about how conveniently retarded this is:

"Hi guys, I know you've taken a bunch of vaccines that conferred immunity on you for life.  "

"Here's a vaccine that will make sure you don't get covid and won't spread covid."

"Here check out this CDC definition that says a vaccine makes you immune."

.

.

.

"Why did everyone assume this shot would make you not get covid?  Haven't they heard of the flu shot?"

But, no, they're not rewriting history.

They believe people who say there are more than two genders and men can have periods. It's not surprising they believed the covid hype too. 

[5-Points 3,521]

13 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Shots are not vaccines?

Ok look, at certain points in your life, you have to realize that you don't know everything about everything.

You're there bro.  Just stop.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/tetanus/index.html

Vaccines can be shots. Not all shots are vaccines. 

[5-Points 3,521]

13 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

The other thing about the “well I’ve never gotten measles!” argument is that there hasn’t been a true outbreak of most of those diseases in a really long time.   If 10%+ of the country was walking around with measles all at one time there’d likely be some more “breakthrough cases”

That's because the vaccines we took as kids, worked. It basically eradicated measles from the U.S. Although, I hear there have been some recent cases pop up. Most likely due to the open border. But I'm not worried, I'm immune to measles. 

[TimHauck 2,847]

12 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

But I'm not worried, I'm immune to measles. 

So you think 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

15 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

That's because the vaccines we took as kids, worked. It basically eradicated measles from the U.S. Although, I hear there have been some recent cases pop up. Most likely due to the open border. But I'm not worried, I'm immune to measles. 

No, not open border, it's because of lack of immunization due to vaccine hesitancy caused by anti vaxers

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/05/health/measles-outbreak-ohio-over/index.html

[BuckSwope 654]

25 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

 

So how come nobody ever needed a second measles "vaccine"? 

re·sist·ant

[rəˈzist(ə)nt]

 

ADJECTIVE

1. offering resistance to something or someone:

   "some of the old Churches are resistant to change" · "a water-resistant adhesive"

   SIMILAR:

   water-resistant

   waterproof

   impenetrable

   against

   anti

   impervious to

   proof against

   unaffected by

   repellent of

   unsusceptible to

   immune to

   invulnerable to

   imperviable to

   opposed to

   averse to

   hostile to

   inimical to

   unwilling to accept

   disinclined to accept

   reluctant to accept

   unenthusiastic about

You are proving my point with every post.   I post the definition, and by the way that is the context it's given in any science or biology class I've ever been in.    Then you post the "similar" terms, only a few of which would mean 100% protection,  which of course is what the politicians and SM used - which of course is 100%/0%, black/white/, R/D.    Everything I read and saw talked about what I said above - some protection, not full but a main benefit is also reducing severe symptoms, making death less likely.   

And to answer your other question, the other thing people like you don't seem to understand or incorporate is that there is and always has been a community aspect to the vaccines.  Some of the vaccines you ask of weren't 100% effective, but because everybody took them the combination shut it down.   So anti-vaxxers that might go too far are protected because the people around them vaccinated and don't have the disease to give to them.   It's no surprise that the unvaccinated had the higher death rate, and it's also no surprise that diseases that we thought were gone are now popping up more and more because knobs like you and TB who slept through any equivalent science class to the ones I had think that vaccines are like Theraflu.  

[TimHauck 2,847]

10 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

No, not open border, it's because of lack of immunization due to vaccine hesitancy caused by anti vaxers

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/05/health/measles-outbreak-ohio-over/index.html

I’m guessing this is the one @RLLD was talking about in a different thread.  It does appear to have started within an immigrant community (but since most cases were under 5 I’d bet many of them were born here).

There have been other outbreaks started by American citizen antivaxxers though

[Gepetto 1,367]

You dipsh!ts can look up definitions until your blue. Do any of you know what actually happens physiologically when a vaccine is given? I didn't think so. Antigens, Antibodies, Titer levels. Look it up and read about it, or shut the fock up.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

1 minute ago, Gepetto said:

You dipsh!ts can look up definitions until your blue. Do any of you know what actually happens physiologically when a vaccine is given? I didn't think so. Antigens, Antibodies, Titer levels. Look it up and read about it, or shut the fock up.

I think someone previously said they would rather have their body's own immune system work vs getting a vaccine

[5-Points 3,521]

27 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

No, not open border, it's because of lack of immunization due to vaccine hesitancy caused by anti vaxers

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/05/health/measles-outbreak-ohio-over/index.html

From your link

"Even if a disease is eliminated, outbreaks can still occur if an unvaccinated person travels to or from a country where the disease is still common, becomes infected and brings it back to the United States, introducing the virus into a community. That traveler can transmit measles to anyone who is unvaccinated."

 

So, like I said, the outbreak was most likely due to an infected person coming across the border and infecting unvaccinated people. Unfortunately, most likely because measles was pretty much a thing of the past in this country, those kids weren't immunized against it. 

Had they gotten the measles vaccine, they would not have gotten infected because they would have been immune. 

[5-Points 3,521]

31 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

You are proving my point with every post.   I post the definition, and by the way that is the context it's given in any science or biology class I've ever been in.    Then you post the "similar" terms, only a few of which would mean 100% protection,  which of course is what the politicians and SM used - which of course is 100%/0%, black/white/, R/D.    Everything I read and saw talked about what I said above - some protection, not full but a main benefit is also reducing severe symptoms, making death less likely.   

And to answer your other question, the other thing people like you don't seem to understand or incorporate is that there is and always has been a community aspect to the vaccines.  Some of the vaccines you ask of weren't 100% effective, but because everybody took them the combination shut it down.   So anti-vaxxers that might go too far are protected because the people around them vaccinated and don't have the disease to give to them.   It's no surprise that the unvaccinated had the higher death rate, and it's also no surprise that diseases that we thought were gone are now popping up more and more because knobs like you and TB who slept through any equivalent science class to the ones I had think that vaccines are like Theraflu.  

He specifically said the covid shot was equivalent to Theraflu. And he is correct. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

3 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

From your link

"Even if a disease is eliminated, outbreaks can still occur if an unvaccinated person travels to or from a country where the disease is still common, becomes infected and brings it back to the United States, introducing the virus into a community. That traveler can transmit measles to anyone who is unvaccinated."

 

So, like I said, the outbreak was most likely due to an infected person coming across the border and infecting unvaccinated people. Unfortunately, most likely because measles was pretty much a thing of the past in this country, those kids weren't immunized against it. 

Had they gotten the measles vaccine, they would not have gotten infected because they would have been immune. 

Correction, traveler, not open border.  This happened in Ohio.

And still the mmr vaccine, even after 2 shots, is only 97% effective, not 100%

[GutterBoy 2,899]

1 minute ago, 5-Points said:

He specifically said the covid shot was equivalent to Theraflu. And he is correct. 

The covid vaccine triggers your immune system to create antibodies to fight the virus.

Theraflu is Tylenol and cough syrup to ease symptoms.

2 completely different things.

Are you done yet?

[5-Points 3,521]

2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Correction, traveler, not open border.  This happened in Ohio.

And still the mmr vaccine, even after 2 shots, is only 97% effective, not 100%

Yeah, someone who traveled across the border from another country where measles is still a thing. 

 

[5-Points 3,521]

7 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

The covid vaccine triggers your immune system to create antibodies to fight the virus.

Theraflu is Tylenol and cough syrup to ease symptoms.

2 completely different things.

Are you done yet?

The covid shot doesn't prevent you from getting or spreading covid. It supposedly reduces the severity of your symptoms. You know, like Theraflu does for flu symptoms. 

[jerryskids 6,784]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

No they didn't.

They changed the definition to make it more accurate.  It was not because the covid vaccine was not a real vaccine.

Holy sh1t you people are insane.

So, a vaccine always included therapeutics which provided no immunity, and they just had a typo when they had immunity in the original definition?

[OldMaid 2,130]

@5-Points I posted this earlier but I’ll post it again:

https://discoverysedge.mayo.edu/2021/03/30/researchers-clarify-why-measles-doesnt-evolve-to-escape-immunity/

Since covid mutates so rapidly, this is why the vaccine for it can not possibly ever work like the one we have for the measles. 

@nobody Yes, they intentionally lied to us about it in the beginning. I’m sure a smart guy like you can figure out why.

[Ultra Max Power 214]

4 minutes ago, OldMaid said:

Since covid mutates so rapidly, this is why the vaccine for it can not possibly ever work like the one we have for the measles. 

To clarify, you're talking about the current vaccine... not the future vaccine "that works" which Biden is currently trying to fund 

[TimHauck 2,847]

7 hours ago, jerryskids said:

So, a vaccine always included therapeutics which provided no immunity, and they just had a typo when they had immunity in the original definition?

Would you consider what you get from a natural Covid infection “immunity”?

Hint:  if you’re saying you don’t get “immunity” from the vaccine, you don’t get it from a natural infection either (since Omicron especially)

[GutterBoy 2,899]

8 hours ago, jerryskids said:

So, a vaccine always included therapeutics which provided no immunity, and they just had a typo when they had immunity in the original definition?

This vaccine, like all other vaccines, triggers your immune system to produce antibodies that fight the virus.

Please learn how vaccines work and you might actually add some value to these conversations instead of wasting everyone's time.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conversations/understanding-vacc-work.html

[5-Points 3,521]

7 hours ago, OldMaid said:

@5-Points I posted this earlier but I’ll post it again:

https://discoverysedge.mayo.edu/2021/03/30/researchers-clarify-why-measles-doesnt-evolve-to-escape-immunity/

Since covid mutates so rapidly, this is why the vaccine for it can not possibly ever work like the one we have for the measles. 

@nobody Yes, they intentionally lied to us about it in the beginning. I’m sure a smart guy like you can figure out why.

So its more like a flu shot. The flu changes from one season to the next. This season's flu shot is based off of last season's flu bug. So we are constantly playing catch-up instead of getting out in front of it. That makes sense, given the nature of covid. 

[seafoam1 3,011]

29 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

This vaccine, like all other vaccines, triggers your immune system to produce antibodies that fight the virus.

Please learn how vaccines work and you might actually add some value to these conversations instead of wasting everyone's time.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conversations/understanding-vacc-work.html

And yet, it didn't work. You can call your dog a vaccine all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still just a mutt. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

It is easy to see why people working outside of science — and even some scientists — thought that vaccines prevented infection. If a person is vaccinated, there is a good chance that they clear infections quickly, before any symptoms appear. If they don’t have symptoms, they are less likely to spread the disease. For example, they’re not coughing or sneezing to spread airborne diseases. Or they don’t get a lesion from which skin-to-skin contact can spread a sexually transmitted infection. If the immunized do not have symptoms, they will also not go seek care. If they do not seek care, they do not get counted as cases. And, if they do not get counted as cases, the disease is seen as dwindling and disappearing.

https://historyofvaccines.org/blog/meaning-vaccine-same-it-was-1796-regardless-online-conspiracy-theories

Someone brought up the Yankees players that tested positive after being vaxed, but the vax did exactly what it was supposed to, prevent symptomatic infection.  If they weren't testing every day, they never would have known they got it, and it would be regarded as vaccine doing it's job.

Author makes a good point.

[RLLD 4,228]

9 hours ago, TimHauck said:

I’m guessing this is the one @RLLD was talking about in a different thread.  It does appear to have started within an immigrant community (but since most cases were under 5 I’d bet many of them were born here).

There have been other outbreaks started by American citizen antivaxxers though

There are too many people who were born here who should absolutely know better.  This issue did not arise until the advance of social media. There is a generation of kids that obtained their positions on the world from social media instead of the family, school and church. So we have many...many...people walking around with views and positions in which they are absolutely confident, but which are wrong.....and this anti-vaxx nonsense is but one of the many....

[TBayXXXVII 2,543]

13 hours ago, TimHauck said:

The other thing about the “well I’ve never gotten measles!” argument is that there hasn’t been a true outbreak of most of those diseases in a really long time.   If 10%+ of the country was walking around with measles all at one time there’d likely be some more “breakthrough cases”

You know why you'll NEVER see 10% of the country walking around with the measles?  Because everyone got a vaccine when they were younger.

[TBayXXXVII 2,543]

Because some are misunderstanding...

There's nothing wrong with telling people they should get the Covid vaccine.  The biggest problem was the governmental mandates.  Another problem was the "moral responsibility" bull crap pushed by the left.  Covid's biggest impact was on the unhealthy.  THOSE are the people who would've been wise to take it.  Everyone else should've been told that the more health problems you have, you are more encouraged to get the vaccine.  Anyone who is healthy, do as you wish.  People also should have been told that wearing masks would be good for those who took the vaccine because they're more high risk... and those who didn't wear masks should NOT have been villainized.

Also, I didn't say the vaccine WORKS EXACTLY LIKE Theraflu, just that they're similar in their objective, which is to reduce the symptoms.  Yes, HOW they do it are different, but the results are the same.  The "Vaccine" was sold by Fauci and the Democrat leaders (and their PR department... the MSM), that everyone who takes the vaccine, would be fine and no one else will get it.  That was the foundation for pushing the mandates.  People in this country should be pissed off about that, yet half the country thinks this was a good thing.  That's a very sad indictment on this country.

Any governmental agent or agency who pushed and set mandates for it's citizens to get the vaccine, belong in prison.  ALL of them.  NO EXCEPTIONS.  ALL.

[Alias Detective 1,398]

13 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

No, not open border, it's because of lack of immunization due to vaccine hesitancy caused by anti vaxers

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/05/health/measles-outbreak-ohio-over/index.html

Dig deeper - The outbreak likely started because of unvaxed BABIES, to young for the vaccine, traveling to countries WITH uncontrolled measles.

 

Although most of the cases are in unvaccinated children, six of the children had received their first of two doses of the combined measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine. Another twenty-four of the children were too young for any doses, according to the agency’s website.

The U.S. was declared measles-free in 2000, but travelers periodically bring in infections. People who visit countries where measles is endemic, meaning there is regular transmission in the population, can return to their home communities and seed a local outbreak.

“The mere fact that individuals who were not vaccinated, traveled to a measles endemic country and then were allowed to come back into the United States, where they likely instigated this outbreak is concerning to me as a public health professional,” says Roberts.  

[GutterBoy 2,899]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Because some are misunderstanding...

There's nothing wrong with telling people they should get the Covid vaccine.  The biggest problem was the governmental mandates.  Another problem was the "moral responsibility" bull crap pushed by the left.  Covid's biggest impact was on the unhealthy.  THOSE are the people who would've been wise to take it.  Everyone else should've been told that the more health problems you have, you are more encouraged to get the vaccine.  Anyone who is healthy, do as you wish.  People also should have been told that wearing masks would be good for those who took the vaccine because they're more high risk... and those who didn't wear masks should NOT have been villainized.

I actually agree with everything you said here.  I do not like the mandates, and I rolled my eyes are the stupid "I got vaccinated" stickers and the mask shamers.

 

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Also, I didn't say the vaccine WORKS EXACTLY LIKE Theraflu, just that they're similar in their objective, which is to reduce the symptoms.  Yes, HOW they do it are different, but the results are the same.  The "Vaccine" was sold by Fauci and the Democrat leaders (and their PR department... the MSM), that everyone who takes the vaccine, would be fine and no one else will get it.  That was the foundation for pushing the mandates.  People in this country should be pissed off about that, yet half the country thinks this was a good thing.  That's a very sad indictment on this country.

Any governmental agent or agency who pushed and set mandates for it's citizens to get the vaccine, belong in prison.  ALL of them.  NO EXCEPTIONS.  ALL.

Well the vaccine's best case scenario is you don't get the virus at all, or you're asymptomatic, which is the objective.  Worst case is milder symptoms, but it doesn't treat the symptoms, it is taken BEFORE you get sick so your body can produce antibodies that either prevent infection or lessen severity.  You take Theraflu AFTER you get sick to ease symptoms.

There was plenty that went wrong during Covid.  My problem is when people deliberately lie and say things like "It's not a vaccine", "They changed the definition of vaccine to cover themselves", "It does nothing".

You have an issue with people who lied to you, I get it, so do I, but don't go around lying about the same thing.  Makes you a hypocrite.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

2 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

Dig deeper - The outbreak likely started because of unvaxed BABIES, to young for the vaccine, traveling to countries WITH uncontrolled measles.

 

Although most of the cases are in unvaccinated children, six of the children had received their first of two doses of the combined measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine. Another twenty-four of the children were too young for any doses, according to the agency’s website.

The U.S. was declared measles-free in 2000, but travelers periodically bring in infections. People who visit countries where measles is endemic, meaning there is regular transmission in the population, can return to their home communities and seed a local outbreak.

“The mere fact that individuals who were not vaccinated, traveled to a measles endemic country and then were allowed to come back into the United States, where they likely instigated this outbreak is concerning to me as a public health professional,” says Roberts.  

Sure.

It's not an open border problem with measles infected illegals pouring into the country, which was my point.  That right wing talking point is false.

[edjr 6,580]

12 hours ago, OldMaid said:

@5-Points I posted this earlier but I’ll post it again:

https://discoverysedge.mayo.edu/2021/03/30/researchers-clarify-why-measles-doesnt-evolve-to-escape-immunity/

Since covid mutates so rapidly, this is why the vaccine for it can not possibly ever work like the one we have for the measles. 

@nobody Yes, they intentionally lied to us about it in the beginning. I’m sure a smart guy like you can figure out why.

Ouchi Fauci and his cronies did a great job mutating the chiner flu

[TimHauck 2,847]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You know why you'll NEVER see 10% of the country walking around with the measles?  Because everyone got a vaccine when they were younger.

Childhood vaccine rates are dropping 

[TimHauck 2,847]

52 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Because some are misunderstanding...

There's nothing wrong with telling people they should get the Covid vaccine.  The biggest problem was the governmental mandates.  Another problem was the "moral responsibility" bull crap pushed by the left.  Covid's biggest impact was on the unhealthy.  THOSE are the people who would've been wise to take it.  Everyone else should've been told that the more health problems you have, you are more encouraged to get the vaccine.  Anyone who is healthy, do as you wish.  People also should have been told that wearing masks would be good for those who took the vaccine because they're more high risk... and those who didn't wear masks should NOT have been villainized.

Also, I didn't say the vaccine WORKS EXACTLY LIKE Theraflu, just that they're similar in their objective, which is to reduce the symptoms.  Yes, HOW they do it are different, but the results are the same.  The "Vaccine" was sold by Fauci and the Democrat leaders (and their PR department... the MSM), that everyone who takes the vaccine, would be fine and no one else will get it.  That was the foundation for pushing the mandates.  People in this country should be pissed off about that, yet half the country thinks this was a good thing.  That's a very sad indictment on this country.

Any governmental agent or agency who pushed and set mandates for it's citizens to get the vaccine, belong in prison.  ALL of them.  NO EXCEPTIONS.  ALL.

Like Gutter, I mostly agree with your first paragraph.   I do wonder if the strategy of primarily pushing it for the unhealthy would have actually resulted in any additional overweight southerners taking it and maybe not dying during the Delta wave though.

Half of the country didn’t think vaccine mandates were good though.  Virtually every Republican and independent (such as myself) didn’t, as did many Dems as well.

[jerryskids 6,784]

7 hours ago, TimHauck said:

Would you consider what you get from a natural Covid infection “immunity”?

Hint:  if you’re saying you don’t get “immunity” from the vaccine, you don’t get it from a natural infection either (since Omicron especially)

If what I get from natural Covid infection gives me a significant protection against getting Covid again, I would call that immunity.

If a vaccine gives me significant protection against getting Covid, I would call that immunity.

6 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

This vaccine, like all other vaccines, triggers your immune system to produce antibodies that fight the virus.

Please learn how vaccines work and you might actually add some value to these conversations instead of wasting everyone's time.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conversations/understanding-vacc-work.html

Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

vac·cine

/vakˈsēn,ˈvakˌsēn/

noun

1. a substance used to stimulate immunity to a particular infectious disease or pathogen, typically prepared from an inactivated or weakened form of the causative agent or from its constituents or products.

    

   Apparently the Oxford dictionary hasn't caught up to the CDC definition change from immunity to protection.  

[TimHauck 2,847]

10 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

If what I get from natural Covid infection gives me a significant protection against getting Covid again, I would call that immunity.

If a vaccine gives me significant protection against getting Covid, I would call that immunity.

 

So neither the vaccine nor natural infection provide immunity against Omicron infection, correct?