Ukraine - Doomsday

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

1 minute ago, Louie Kelcher said:

And this forced him to invade and occupy?  It's his duty to conquer all non nato countries?  You know how stupid that is?

It’s stupid to not listen to a warning from a lunatic with a large army and nuclear weapons and a willingness to use that army. He had already invaded part of Ukraine and took it. Are you surprised he did what he did? Should anyone have been surprised? 

[Louie Kelcher 97]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s stupid to not listen to a warning from a lunatic with a large army and nuclear weapons and a willingness to use that army. He had already invaded part of Ukraine and took it. Are you surprised he did what he did? Should anyone have been surprised? 

It's not surprising but that doesn't mean it's justified for focks sake.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

3 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

It's not surprising but that doesn't mean it's justified for focks sake.

You are correct. But your view on what’s justified doesn’t matter. His does. And when he warms and warms yet the other side doesn’t listen, well, you have a war. Do you think it was worth it? 

[GobbleDog 990]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You are correct. But your view on what’s justified doesn’t matter. His does. And when he warms and warms yet the other side doesn’t listen, well, you have a war. Do you think it was worth it? 

What exactly did Putin "warn" ?  Ukraine never joined NATO. They applied for membership in 2008, but nothing came of it. Pressed again in 2014 (after Crimea was annexed), but still NATO didn't seem likely to accept due to their corruption, human rights record, and fact it takes a unanimous agreement to admit a new country.

Russia didn't invade Ukraine over NATO. They invaded them to reclaim the old empire, and for economic/militaristic/geographic reasons.  According to Putin, they invaded Ukraine to fight Nazi's and protect Russians living in the Donbas region.

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

48 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Pushing the boundaries of nato. 

Oh brother, this tired old argument. Nothing Ukraine did justifies the Russian invasion and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

Nothing.

Pointing out that NATO was set up to protect countries from Russian aggression would just result in you trying to minimize that by noting the handful of times NATO went on the offensive in small-scale situations, and you'd just frame it as "way worse."

Yawn.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

Nato never invaded anyone.  Stop it.  Putin apologists

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

1 minute ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Nato never invaded anyone.  Stop it.  Putin apologists

Nato most certainly has. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

Are we really saying that Putin never warned about Ukraine joining nato? Laughable 

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

Just now, Louie Kelcher said:

Nato never invaded anyone.  Stop it.  Putin apologists

He's going to go here with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

Then he'll stretch the living fock out of that to justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine because it desired to join NATO.

 

[craftsman 1,045]

7 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Nato never invaded anyone.  Stop it.  Putin apologists

Under what alias did you get banned and came back as this doosh alias?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

1 minute ago, Pimpadeaux said:

He's going to go here with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

Then he'll stretch the living fock out of that to justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine because it desired to join NATO.

 

Don’t forget Libya. And a few others. Love how you are trying to portray it as just one. Ignorance or lying? Pick one 

[craftsman 1,045]

Ukraine is deserving what they get. Bunch of criminals running that country. No wonder Biden is such good friends with them. They have a lot in common. Quid pro quo Joe.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

4 minutes ago, craftsman said:

Under what alias did you get banned and came back as this doosh alias?

Utilit99

[craftsman 1,045]

2 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Utilit99

Ok.  Well, the new name didn't help make you smart. Still low IQ.  

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

Uker drone snatches Russian walkie-talkie. 

 

[KSB2424 3,148]

2 minutes ago, craftsman said:

Ukraine is deserving what they get.  Just stop, Jesus. One invaded the other did not, sometimes its that simple. 

Bunch of criminals running that country.  Not wrong.

No wonder Biden is such good friends with them. Prolly

They have a lot in common. Quid pro quo Joe.  Prolly

 

[craftsman 1,045]

2 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

 

I just can't feel bad for criminals getting overrun by other criminals. Of course the honest people suffer and that's not good. But it's the same for both country's people. 

And I feel bad for this country having a president spending taxpayer dollars on foreign wars because of Joe's personal relationship with one side. There are shltload of people here that could use some much needed help. Our homeless situation is out of control. Our border is out of control. And many other things that have already been discussed over and over again. This is just getting old. Europe should be playing a bigger part in all of this if they care enough.

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

13 hours ago, craftsman said:

I just can't feel bad for criminals getting overrun by other criminals. Of course the honest people suffer and that's not good. But it's the same for both country's people. 

And I feel bad for this country having a president spending taxpayer dollars on foreign wars because of Joe's personal relationship with one side. There are shltload of people here that could use some much needed help. Our homeless situation is out of control. Our border is out of control. And many other things that have already been discussed over and over again. This is just getting old. Europe should be playing a bigger part in all of this if they care enough.

The UK is sending 14 of its best tanks to Ukraine, and Germany is contemplating doing the same. 

The vote on the aid package back in the spring was bipartisan.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

The last place I would ever want to be in in a combat situation is a tank. Not in modern warfare. I’d rather be on a horse. 

[wiffleball 4,789]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The last place I would ever want to be in in a combat situation is a tank. Not in modern warfare. I’d rather be on a horse. 

Well that's stupid. A horse would never fit in a tank!

[wiffleball 4,789]

Kills me at how many people just never get the concept; If the News tells us that we're sending a billion dollars worth of military aid to Ukraine or wherever, it's not like we give them a suitcase with a billion dollars in 20s.

 

We're sending military equipment that we either have in inventory or American companies are selling to the US government.  It's banner days at Lockheed and Northrop and virtually every other place that makes things that go boom.

People have never figured out that the MIC is just a huge government jobs program. There's a reason why we're building 4 $15 billion aircraft carriers even when the Navy says we don't need them. We're keeping Newport News and a lot of other places open for business. Creating jobs and wealth in congressmen and senators constituent territory.

[craftsman 1,045]

17 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

Kills me at how many people just never get the concept; If the News tells us that we're sending a billion dollars worth of military aid to Ukraine or wherever, it's not like we give them a suitcase with a billion dollars in 20s.

 

We're sending military equipment that we either have in inventory or American companies are selling to the US government.  It's banner days at Lockheed and Northrop and virtually every other place that makes things that go boom.

People have never figured out that the MIC is just a huge government jobs program. There's a reason why we're building 4 $15 billion aircraft carriers even when the Navy says we don't need them. We're keeping Newport News and a lot of other places open for business. Creating jobs and wealth in congressmen and senators constituent territory.

And yet I heard interviews where they talk with military experts who are saying we need a major increase in production of weaponry to send to Taiwan that we do not have now, and for building sheltering for aircraft in Taiwan so they (and the US) are ready to either defend that island from an eventual Chinese invasion or act as a strong deterrence to keep them at bay for however long is possible. And we need it right now. Not later. Else Taiwan and the US are focked and many Americans will end up dead if we don't get it done because China is close to moving in. 

Oh, and as far as sending cash, it's not out of the picture. There is history in it with Obama and Biden.

Sorry ‘Factchecker,’ Nikki Haley Is Right — Obama Sent Iran a Planeload of Cash

 Obama and Biden let Iran get away with murder and literally sent them a plane full of cash. President Trump did the right thing and ripped up the Iran nuclear deal.

And then there is this with Ukraine and Biden's dirty deeds involving given Ukraine cash for a quid pro quo:

 

 

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

On 4/17/2022 at 7:52 PM, Gepetto said:

The Budapest Memorandum https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/global-conflicts/ukraine-agreed-to-give-up-nukes-in-exchange-for-safety-from-russia-invasion-attack-budapest-memorandum-treaty/536-8748a51f-10ee-47f0-be30-b4088750ee44 

Yes, Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear weapons in 1994 in exchange for safety from a U.S. or Russian invasion. 

In 1994, Ukraine, Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. signed the Budapest Memorandum. The other three nations made six commitments to Ukraine: to respect Ukraine’s independence and existing borders, to refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine except for in defense, to refrain from economic coercion to gain advantages from Ukraine, to provide assistance to Ukraine if it becomes victim to an act of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used, to not use their nuclear weapons on Ukraine or other non-nuclear-weapon states and to consult one another in the event these commitments are put into question.

Ukraine, in return, committed to eliminating “all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time.”

When the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, the country’s nuclear arsenal was split between four different countries: Ukraine, Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. Much of that arsenal ended up in Ukraine, which inherited the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world, the Arms Control Association says.

The Wilson Center, a non-partisan policy forum on global issues, said in an issue brief that Ukraine was reluctant to give up its nuclear weapons without security guarantees. By 1992, the Russian parliament had already passed a resolution that said Crimea — the peninsula later annexed by Russia in 2014 — should never have been given to Ukraine. Ukraine’s own parliament therefore demanded that security guarantees be provided in a legally binding treaty, the Wilson Center said.

In the final version of the deal, Russia promised not to attack Ukraine. While the U.S. and the U.K. assured Ukraine they would aid if it was attacked by Russia, that promised aid did not guarantee military support like a NATO country would receive.

In 2009, Russia and the U.S. announced that the assurances in the Budapest Memorandum would continue to remain in effect in the future.

But Russia first violated the memorandum in 2014, when it sent its military into Crimea and annexed it. The other three nations named in the Budapest Memorandum invoked the treaty’s sixth assurance, or the agreement to consult each other in the event the treaty’s commitments came into question, and met in Paris to discuss the invasion. Russia did not attend the meeting.

The Arms Control Association said a Russian foreign ministry official argued for Russia’s right to disregard the Budapest Memorandum by claiming “the security assurances were given to the legitimate government of Ukraine but not to the forces that came to power following the coup d’etat.” In the months prior to Russia’s invasion of Crimea, Ukrainian citizens ousted the country’s authoritarian president through protests.

In 2016, Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov claimed in a press conference the treaty contained only one obligation: Not to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine. But the text of the agreement shows that claim was false.

 

Link to the actual text of the Budapest Memorandum:  https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 3007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf 

I revisited this today. Interesting stuff. 

[nobody 2,643]

On 1/18/2023 at 10:13 AM, wiffleball said:

Kills me at how many people just never get the concept; If the News tells us that we're sending a billion dollars worth of military aid to Ukraine or wherever, it's not like we give them a suitcase with a billion dollars in 20s.

 

We're sending military equipment that we either have in inventory or American companies are selling to the US government.  It's banner days at Lockheed and Northrop and virtually every other place that makes things that go boom.

People have never figured out that the MIC is just a huge government jobs program. There's a reason why we're building 4 $15 billion aircraft carriers even when the Navy says we don't need them. We're keeping Newport News and a lot of other places open for business. Creating jobs and wealth in congressmen and senators constituent territory.

Yeah, we force them to sell the equipment for the money.  This ain't a handout.

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

I'm thinking the beginning of the end is within a few months for either side. Russian is preparing a massive assault for late winter or early spring, and NATO is sending in some of the good stuff in the form of Bradley Fighting Vehicles, Patriot missile systems and tanks from Britain and perhaps Germany.

The worst of it is yet to come. 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

Massive corruption scandal in Ukraine. Government thugs stealing our money. No one saw that coming. This should result in an audit of prior aid and an accounting for future aid. After all, it is one of the most corrupt countries on earth. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

U.S. to send M1 Abrams tanks

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/01/24/world/russia-ukraine-news

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

6 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Massive corruption scandal in Ukraine. Government thugs stealing our money. No one saw that coming. This should result in an audit of prior aid and an accounting for future aid. After all, it is one of the most corrupt countries on earth. 

Not even close. Of course, Russia is No. 1 here.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/10-most-corrupt-countries-ranked-by-perception

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-corrupt-countries

Quote

1. South Sudan - 11
2. Somalia - 13 (tie)
3. Syria - 13 (tie)
4. Venezuela - 14
5. Afghanistan - 16 (tie)
6. North Korea - 16 (tie)
7. Yemen - 16 (tie)
8. Equatorial Guinea - 17 (tie)
9. Libya - 17 (tie)
10. Burundi - 19 (tie)
11. Congo (Dem. Republic of) - 19 (tie)
12. Turkmenistan - 19 (tie)

https://sydel.com/these-are-the-worlds-most-corrupt-countries/

Quote

1. Somalia
2. South Sudan
3. North Korea
4. Syria
5. Yemen
6. Sudan
7. Libya
8. Afghanistan
9. Guinea-Bissau
10. Venezuela

 

[craftsman 1,045]

The US under Biden is a corrupt nation supporting another corrupt nation in Europe and prolonging an unnecessary war and getting many many more people killed by the day while all the liberal fans of this war are here at home cheering all those deaths while Biden bankrupts America. Good job liberals.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

2 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Not even close. Of course, Russia is No. 1.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/10-most-corrupt-countries-ranked-by-perception

[Voltaire 5,280]

7 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

U.S. to send M1 Abrams tanks

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/01/24/world/russia-ukraine-news

The end.

[GobbleDog 990]

10 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

U.S. to send M1 Abrams tanks

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/01/24/world/russia-ukraine-news

I'm guessing the U.S. is only doing it get Germany to send their tanks.

The Abrams is apparently a gas guzzler and difficult to maintain, which isn't great for Ukraine's fast moving assaults. Not to mention, it's insanely expensive. Reportedly the German tanks cost less, suck less gas and are easier to maintain. But Germany won't budge until we donate a few Abrams.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

6 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Massive corruption scandal in Ukraine. Government thugs stealing our money. No one saw that coming. This should result in an audit of prior aid and an accounting for future aid. After all, it is one of the most corrupt countries on earth. 

Not even close.  Ukraine ranks 122 out of 180 on the cpi index, meaning there are 58 countries more corrupt than Ukraine

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

4 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Not even close.  Ukraine ranks 122 out of 180 on the cpi index, meaning there are 58 countries more corrupt than Ukraine

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021

 

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

31 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

I'm guessing the U.S. is only doing it get Germany to send their tanks.

The Abrams is apparently a gas guzzler and difficult to maintain, which isn't great for Ukraine's fast moving assaults. Not to mention, it's insanely expensive. Reportedly the German tanks cost less, suck less gas and are easier to maintain. But Germany won't budge until we donate a few Abrams.

Yeah, and the story says it could be "years" before they get there, and I'd read that about the Abrams. The U.S. hesitation was more about the maintenance headaches more than anything else. Poland is going to send in those Leopards, and U.K. is sending tanks as well.

I think late spring to early summer will be a decisive moment in this deal, with the Russians gearing up for an offensive, which will turn out just as badly as everything else they've attempted, other than losing a crap ton of soldiers taking a city with an area of like 4 miles.

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

19 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You can't handle facts.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

So Ukrainian soldiers are going to learn how to operate, maintain and repair these cutting edge tanks by springtime? Sure they are.  

[craftsman 1,045]

1 hour ago, Pimpadeaux said:

You can't handle facts.

That Ukraine is getting pummeled? Easy to understand. There wlll be nothing left of that shltty country in the end.

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

57 minutes ago, craftsman said:

That Ukraine is getting pummeled? Easy to understand. There wlll be nothing left of that shltty country in the end.

You want to make a bet on this, sugar lips?

[RogerDodger 797]

1 minute ago, Pimpadeaux said:

You want to make a bet on this, sugar lips?

Why do you constantly make sexual references when responding to other male posters, besides the obvious.  Come out of the closet already fagggot.