Failure of the public education system

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

50 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think the public education system can still deliver.  I think they need to let the teachers teach instead of trying to fabricate some magical system that tries to meet the needs of all students equally.

Not all students are equal.

In fact, some of them are just sh!tty humans..... 

You’re leaving out the part about the teachers union being the one that calls the shots. 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I would say in like 95% of cases it is shitty parenting. It is fair to mention too that some kids have shitty parents and turn out great, and some kids have great parents and turn out shitty. 

Yep.  There are exceptions but the majority of the time it holds true.

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

22 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You’re leaving out the part about the teachers union being the one that calls the shots. 

So you want to posit the teacher's union wants things to be shitty?

[RLLD 4,230]

37 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Or make adoption easier and more affordable.

Perhaps, but that is then reliant on demand to avert problems, not sure I can get with that.

[Cloaca du jour 2,149]

1 hour ago, Utilit99 said:

You still are so far off on Trump it's amazing. 

I wouldnt go that far...his social media persona was a trainwreck.  His america first policies were awesome.

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not though.  Trump was not a respectable person.  He's always been a sleazebag. 

Trump earned the respect for what he was standing for in this country and actually tried to do the things he was elected to do and getting a bunch done with half the country trying to find dirt on him to get him kicked out of office. They found none of it. I would be pretty pissy too if I had to go through that where I work. 

I really didn't care at all about his mean tweets or angry reactions to some of those assh0le lying reporters. 

biden on the other hand has achieved nothing but negative results on anything he touches.  

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Utilit99 said:

Trump earned the respect for what he was standing for in this country and actually tried to do the things he was elected to do and getting a bunch done with half the country trying to find dirt on him to get him kicked out of office. They found none of it. I would be pretty pissy too if I had to go through that where I work. 

I really didn't care at all about his mean tweets or angry reactions to some of those assh0le lying reporters. 

biden on the other hand has achieved nothing but negative results on anything he touches.  

We all know Biden sucks.  There's not reason to even bring him up.

[Utilit99 4,099]

3 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

I wouldnt go that far...his social media persona was a trainwreck.  His america first policies were awesome.

What does having a president with a wonderful social media persona ever actually done for the people of the US?

[Cloaca du jour 2,149]

8 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

What does having a president with a wonderful social media persona ever actually done for the people of the US?

We dunno...It has only been 2 and a half.  Too small a sample size.

Trust me...I could go for some 2 dollar gas a closed border and a few mean tweets about now.

[Utilit99 4,099]

17 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

We dunno...It has only been 2 and a half.  Too small a sample size.

Trust me...I could go for some 2 dollar gas a closed border and a few mean tweets about now.

Amen.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

1 hour ago, Sean Mooney said:

So you want to posit the teacher's union wants things to be shitty?

Their ideas are shitty. So what’s the difference if they want it to be or not? Motive doesn’t matter.  The result does. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

1 hour ago, Cloaca du jour said:

We dunno...It has only been 2 and a half.  Too small a sample size.

Trust me...I could go for some 2 dollar gas a closed border and a few mean tweets about now.

I mean gas wasn't 2 dollars a gallon with Trump in office other than the first 2 months of the pandemic.

Also, Russia invading Ukraine was always going to jump prices regardless of who was president. 

 

28 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Their ideas are shitty. So what’s the difference if they want it to be or not? Motive doesn’t matter.  The result does. 

 

Please outline what ideas you 100% know the teacher's unions are putting out there and getting through in schools. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

2 hours ago, RLLD said:

100%

Hence my support for abortion, albeit reluctant.  I think allowing sluts to raise kids is a big negative. If you are getting pregnant and not ready to have a baby, then for gods sake do not have the baby....

 

 

2 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Or make adoption easier and more affordable.

These aren't the people who would be getting abortions.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

58 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I mean gas wasn't 2 dollars a gallon with Trump in office other than the first 2 months of the pandemic.

Also, Russia invading Ukraine was always going to jump prices regardless of who was president. 

 

 

Please outline what ideas you 100% know the teacher's unions are putting out there and getting through in schools. 

Masks and everything else during the pandemic. Common core. Grade inflation. No discipline. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

13 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Masks and everything else during the pandemic. Common core. Grade inflation. No discipline. 

You think teachers are pushing common core?

You think teachers are pushing no discipline?

You think teachers were in love with masks?

You think teachers are in love with grade inflation?

 

Talk about someone being clueless- look at yourself in the mirror champ. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

7 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

You think teachers are pushing common core?

You think teachers are pushing no discipline?

You think teachers were in love with masks?

You think teachers are in love with grade inflation?

 

Talk about someone being clueless- look at yourself in the mirror champ. 

Laughable. The mayor of Washington DC just said yesterday she would consult with their “partners” in the teachers union before they lift the mask requirement. I heard it on the radio, out of her mouth. Why was Randi Weingarten being consulted during the pandemic? Common core happened. Where was the teachers union speaking about against it? They were the ones pushing it. How long have you been around? Doesn’t seem like that long. Where was the teachers union when Obama sent out his “ Dear colleague “ letter, that effectively did away with discipline? Do you even know what that said? Teachers are the ones doing the grade inflation. They give the grades. Where is the push back from the teachers union if they are against it? 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

Randi Weingarten, 2013- “why I support the common core standards “ 

Randi Weingarten 2014- “Common core should be a guide, not the standard”. 
 

After that they ran away from it. Like I said, their ideas suck, time and again. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

8 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Laughable. The mayor of Washington DC just said yesterday she would consult with their “partners” in the teachers union before they lift the mask requirement. I heard it on the radio, out of her mouth. Why was Randi Weingarten being consulted during the pandemic? Common core happened. Where was the teachers union speaking about against it? They were the ones pushing it. How long have you been around? Doesn’t seem like that long. Where was the teachers union when Obama sent out his “ Dear colleague “ letter, that effectively did away with discipline? Do you even know what that said? Teachers are the ones doing the grade inflation. They give the grades. Where is the push back from the teachers union if they are against it? 

So one thing happens in Washington DC and that speaks for everyone everywhere. You do know schools in Montana and Georgia and California and New York all operate differently. 

You apparently didn't read the "Dear Colleague" letter..Maybe you should read it and you wouldn't say something stupid like "it effectively did away with discipline (and BTW the letter was rescinded 5 years ago).

Teachers do push back on grade inflation....

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Randi Weingarten, 2013- “why I support the common core standards “ 

Randi Weingarten 2014- “Common core should be a guide, not the standard”. 
 

After that they ran away from it. Like I said, their ideas suck, time and again. 

Again- what teacher's union are you in?

And really you clowned yourself by trying to say teachers are all for common core. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

So one thing happens in Washington DC and that speaks for everyone everywhere. You do know schools in Montana and Georgia and California and New York all operate differently. 

You apparently didn't read the "Dear Colleague" letter..Maybe you should read it and you wouldn't say something stupid like "it effectively did away with discipline (and BTW the letter was rescinded 5 years ago).

Teachers do push back on grade inflation....

Again- what teacher's union are you in?

And really you clowned yourself by trying to say teachers are all for common core. 

Just showed you their union was. Then it went to shite and they backed off. Shitty ideas.  Just because Trump rescinded  it just meant they didn’t have to follow it. It didn’t say they couldn’t.  Get it simple Jack? 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Just showed you their union was. Then it went to shite and they backed off. Shitty ideas.  Just because Trump rescinded  it just meant they didn’t have to follow it. It didn’t say they couldn’t.  Get it simple Jack? 

You are so clueless. Maybe wait until you go to more than 1 union meeting. Essentially your argument is the same thing they use about staying at a Holiday Inn Express.

I mean no one should ever take you seriously. You are spouting dumb talking points and things that just aren;t true AND you think teachers are pushing common core.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

16 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

You are so clueless. Maybe wait until you go to more than 1 union meeting. Essentially your argument is the same thing they use about staying at a Holiday Inn Express.

I mean no one should ever take you seriously. You are spouting dumb talking points and things that just aren;t true AND you think teachers are pushing common core.

So the union wasn’t for common core. That’s your line? . I’m the one who shouldn’t be taken seriously? I guess you weren’t around for that. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

8 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So the union wasn’t for common core. That’s your line? . I’m the one who shouldn’t be taken seriously? I guess you weren’t around for that. 

Been here a long time....Keep clowning yourself bro. 

HT says he's been to one meeting and he is an authority supposedly. The guy who gets his news from morning radio talk shows is the authority.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Been here a long time....Keep clowning yourself bro. 

HT says he's been to one meeting and he is an authority supposedly. The guy who gets his news from morning radio talk shows is the authority.

I referenced something I heard on the radio, and that’s how you want to define it? It’s not working. The teachers union was for common core before it was against it. You must not have known that until I told you. Maybe you should have turned on the radio back then?  You’re completely ignorant on the topic. It was another in a long line of shitty ideas that were implemented with the unions approval or backing. Deal with it. 

[Fireballer 2,642]

1 hour ago, Sean Mooney said:

You think teachers are pushing common core?

You think teachers are pushing no discipline?

You think teachers were in love with masks?

You think teachers are in love with grade inflation?

 

Talk about someone being clueless- look at yourself in the mirror champ. 

There's your problem. You're too blind to see that the big unions don't truly represent the teachers.  Don't worry, my union doesn't represent the majority of its members either.  They want power and control and feed you just enough to be content.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

Just now, Fireballer said:

There's your problem. You're too blind to see that the big unions don't truly represent the teachers.  Don't worry, my union doesn't represent the majority of its members either.  They want power and control and feed you just enough to be content.

I know plenty of great teachers. Some family members. All pros, I’d have zero problems with them teaching my kids. Even they don’t like the union on a lot of issues. Doesn’t matter.  They are outvoted. I do know one guy who I wouldn’t want anywhere near my kids, but he got disability for some bullshit. The rest are fantastic. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

mooney is really dug himself into a deep hole. 

But who really expected much from a radical leftist nut job? 

[Voltaire 5,315]

3 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

 

Please outline what ideas you 100% know the teacher's unions are putting out there and getting through in schools. 

A Safe and Welcoming School Year for All | American Federation of Teachers (aft.org)

This is a speech from the President of the American Federation of Teachers on the AFT's own website. If you scroll down  to the  "Civics, Democracy, and Truth" portion, she starts off making "a point of personal privilege," which is in-group catch phrase that is only ever invoked by the Democratic Socialists. She says they're "working in cohorts to produce materials for civics education centered around inquiry learning and action civics" in something called "the AFT's new Education for Democratic Citizenship program.+ I'm curious as to what's in the Education for Democratic Citizenship, no doubt CRT that isn't identified as CRT, but that is speculation since it's not open for viewing.

Then, if you scroll down again past the part where she calls the Capital Hill protestors as "violent insurgents (conducting) terrorism,"  you get to where she firmly denies teaching CRT to kids, while also attacks people who criticize CRT in the same breath : "Culture warriors are labeling any discussion of race, racism or discrimination as CRT to try to make it toxic. They are bullying teachers and trying to stop us from teaching students accurate history. This harms students. These culture warriors want to deprive students of a robust understanding of our common history. This will put students at a disadvantage in life by knocking a big hole in their understanding of our country and the world."

She's doing the dance where she's both defending CRT as wonderful but denying they teach it, and demonizing the opposition to CRT by mis-stating and then dismissing their objections in favor of what she calls "accurate history." She goes on to explain that they are setting up a legal defense fund for anyone who teaches CRT.

I tried to find out what Education for Democratic citizenship entails but couldn't. It's likely hidden from view. Instead I found something I wasn't looking for, her discussing civics education with proponents of Critical Race theory. Civic education is vital to saving our democracy | American Federation of Teachers (aft.org)

 

[Voltaire 5,315]

This article is from the other teacher's union, the National Education Association's website. 

Whereas, most of the time the teacher unions deny and obscure the truth to confuse people then hide the evidence, this writer doesn't doesn't hold back. She/it fully and unrepentantly embraces all the buzzwords clearly and openly in full throated support promoting the teaching of critical race theory:

We Need to Teach the Truth About Systemic Racism, Say Educators | NEA

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

4 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I referenced something I heard on the radio, and that’s how you want to define it? It’s not working. The teachers union was for common core before it was against it. You must not have known that until I told you. Maybe you should have turned on the radio back then?  You’re completely ignorant on the topic. It was another in a long line of shitty ideas that were implemented with the unions approval or backing. Deal with it. 

I know what common core is- you apparently don't know 4 states never adopted it, 4 states have repealed it, 12 others are in the process of adopting it....and many more states "adopted" it but don't use it because their standards are above what common core requests of schools.

You are ignorant on this topic and clueless. But please keep pretending you have a clue. What do you even teach? 

1 hour ago, Voltaire said:

This article is from the other teacher's union, the National Education Association's website. 

Whereas, most of the time the teacher unions deny and obscure the truth to confuse people then hide the evidence, this writer doesn't doesn't hold back. She/it fully and unrepentantly embraces all the buzzwords clearly and openly in full throated support promoting the teaching of critical race theory:

We Need to Teach the Truth About Systemic Racism, Say Educators | NEA

So you guys don't seem to understand the difference in things being said, but not implemented? 

You want to play the same game as HT? FIne. Please tell me what ideas are implemented in schools because of teacher's unions pushing for them. You guys need to stop buying into the talking point stuff. You are being played. You want to say my union is playing me fine....but you guys are being played by people who have their own motives for controlling schools. Wish it wasn't like that but there are sides playing for opposite goals in every single issue. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

4 hours ago, Fireballer said:

There's your problem. You're too blind to see that the big unions don't truly represent the teachers.  Don't worry, my union doesn't represent the majority of its members either.  They want power and control and feed you just enough to be content.

I wish I had as much from my union as you guys think I do. Hell I'd love 6 figures, limited responsibility in school, and never have to do as much administrative stuff as I have to. 

To be clear- I'm not saying the union doesn't try for good things for us but HT paints it as teachers are asking for everything and getting it and doing it to create shitty schools which is just patently absurd in every way.

[Fireballer 2,642]

2 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

I wish I had as much from my union as you guys think I do. Hell I'd love 6 figures, limited responsibility in school, and never have to do as much administrative stuff as I have to. 

To be clear- I'm not saying the union doesn't try for good things for us but HT paints it as teachers are asking for everything and getting it and doing it to create shitty schools which is just patently absurd in every way.

You're local is probably helpful.  National level unions have done the damage. 

I'm in the same boat.  The only reason I don't mind my $$$ going to the international is that they provide good legal support and guidance during CB negotiations.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

2 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

I know what common core is- you apparently don't know 4 states never adopted it, 4 states have repealed it, 12 others are in the process of adopting it....and many more states "adopted" it but don't use it because their standards are above what common core requests of schools.

You are ignorant on this topic and clueless. But please keep pretending you have a clue. What do you even teach? 

So you guys don't seem to understand the difference in things being said, but not implemented? 

You want to play the same game as HT? FIne. Please tell me what ideas are implemented in schools because of teacher's unions pushing for them. You guys need to stop buying into the talking point stuff. You are being played. You want to say my union is playing me fine....but you guys are being played by people who have their own motives for controlling schools. Wish it wasn't like that but there are sides playing for opposite goals in every single issue. 

I said they abandoned it. But thanks for confirming. Like I said, and showed, they were for it before they were against it. Unless you think Randi Weingarten didn’t support it. It happened. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

2 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

I wish I had as much from my union as you guys think I do. Hell I'd love 6 figures, limited responsibility in school, and never have to do as much administrative stuff as I have to. 

To be clear- I'm not saying the union doesn't try for good things for us but HT paints it as teachers are asking for everything and getting it and doing it to create shitty schools which is just patently absurd in every way.

Again, I don’t think they want shitty schools. I’ve said that a few times now. I said they have shitty ideas. Stop fantasizing about what I said and concentrate on what I did say. You’re being completely dishonest. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

38 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

You're local is probably helpful.  National level unions have done the damage. 

I'm in the same boat.  The only reason I don't mind my $$$ going to the international is that they provide good legal support and guidance during CB negotiations.  

The point I've tried to make to HT numerous times though is that the national union "speaks" on things but schooling is all pretty much run at a local level. And it is not as if the local unions are just out there running exactly what the national ones are saying. That would ignore clientele of where schools are and the kids that are in them. 

 

38 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I said they abandoned it. But thanks for confirming. Like I said, and showed, they were for it before they were against it. Unless you think Randi Weingarten didn’t support it. It happened. 

You ignore the concept that many states don't even run common core but they "adopted" it because of how funding was tied nationally. Some states have standards that are above and beyond what common core does. Again- if you are in schools and a union you would know this. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

37 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You’re being completely dishonest. 

You would 100% know about being dishonest considering it is one of your go tos

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

The point I've tried to make to HT numerous times though is that the national union "speaks" on things but schooling is all pretty much run at a local level. And it is not as if the local unions are just out there running exactly what the national ones are saying. That would ignore clientele of where schools are and the kids that are in them. 

 

You ignore the concept that many states don't even run common core but they "adopted" it because of how funding was tied nationally. Some states have standards that are above and beyond what common core does. Again- if you are in schools and a union you would know this. 

Common core happened. Just because it didn’t happen everywhere doesn’t mean it didn’t happen anywhere. You cling to the flimsiest reasoning. Same thing with crt or the woke bullshit that goes on that you claim doesn’t. Maybe not where you are. But it happens. You would have us believe that in a state like NY that the union had nothing to do with common core being instituted. I know better. But play your silly deflection game. Whatever. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

12 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

The point I've tried to make to HT numerous times though is that the national union "speaks" on things but schooling is all pretty much run at a local level. And it is not as if the local unions are just out there running exactly what the national ones are saying. That would ignore clientele of where schools are and the kids that are in them. 

 

You ignore the concept that many states don't even run common core but they "adopted" it because of how funding was tied nationally. Some states have standards that are above and beyond what common core does. Again- if you are in schools and a union you would know this. 

Well the union meeting I was at , like I said my first one, it’s a new job,  the curriculum wasn’t  a subject of discussion. Considering there were no teachers there. Maybe pay a little more attention, ok teach? 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

16 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Well the union meeting I was at , like I said my first one, it’s a new job,  the curriculum wasn’t  a subject of discussion. Considering there were no teachers there. Maybe pay a little more attention, ok teach? 

But you said you've been in unions before. So which is it- multiple unions or just this first one and first meeting. Also, if it is multiple you clearly can see how different local unions exist and do different things.

What do you teach?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

Why are the teachers unions against the “Don’t Say Gay” bill, as they call it, in Florida? The bill doesn’t even have the word gay in it. Anyone? 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,415]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

But you said you've been in unions before. So which is it- multiple unions or just this first one and first meeting. Also, if it is multiple you clearly can see how different local unions exist and do different things.

What do you teach?

I don’t teach. This is my fifth union. One trade, fourth public sector. I worked in a public school before, but that was a contract job, non union.