nuclear war - doomsday⌛

[Gepetto 1,289]

2 hours ago, nobody said:

I hate to break it to you guys, but politicians aren't actually religious.  They just pretend to be so you'll vote for them.

I was just about to post this.  More than just vote for them, for Putin, it's a tactic for more power and adoration.

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

4 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

Belarus continues stealth mobilization of its people, certainly to invade Ukraine but considering that Belarus is shifting its forces to the polish border, they are invading europe.

https://www.jpost.com/international/internationalrussia-ukraine-war/article-747057

Belarus, an ally of Russia in the war with Ukraine, said on Wednesday that its armed forces were beginning 10 days of annual "mobilization exercises."

The Belarus defense ministry said the exercises were aimed at assessing the degree of preparation of state institutions to mobilize reservists.

All Belarusian men must perform military service and remain in the reserves after completing it.

they were doing this back in October 2022 at the very least.

https://www.newsweek.com/belarus-passing-secret-mobilization-training-sessions-ukraine-reports-1752900

Belarus Passing Off Secret Mobilization as 'Training Sessions': Ukraine

BY ZOE STROZEWSKI ON 10/18/22 AT 2:42 PM EDT

Russia ally Belarus is secretly mobilizing its armed forces under the pretense of "training sessions," Ukraine said Tuesday, as Belarus reportedly prepares for potential war.

What's up with the tiny text size these days? Does this mean nuclear war is imminent?

[JustinCharge 2,397]

9 hours ago, Gepetto said:

I was just about to post this.  More than just vote for them, for Putin, it's a tactic for more power and adoration.

ive said this several times but ill say it again.  we go to incredible lengths to prevent places like Iran from getting nukes.  everyone seems to agree that if Iran gets them, they will nuke places.  its to the point where if Iran gets too close to building them, Israel will strike and bomb Irans facilities.  no one has a problem with this.

but then we turn to Russia and some people just magically assume Russia wont nuke because its all a fake and no world leaders are that radical.

 

these two world views are incompatible but i see some people clinging to them and the cognitive dissonance.  if iran is a threat, so is russia.  if russia is not a threat because no world leaders are that radical, then our iran policy is horrible and iran should be allowed nukes.

[Gepetto 1,289]

5 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

ive said this several times but ill say it again.  we go to incredible lengths to prevent places like Iran from getting nukes.  everyone seems to agree that if Iran gets them, they will nuke places.  its to the point where if Iran gets too close to building them, Israel will strike and bomb Irans facilities.  no one has a problem with this.

but then we turn to Russia and some people just magically assume Russia wont nuke because its all a fake and no world leaders are that radical.

 

these two world views are incompatible but i see some people clinging to them and the cognitive dissonance.  if iran is a threat, so is russia.  if russia is not a threat because no world leaders are that radical, then our iran policy is horrible and iran should be allowed nukes.

I didn't say Russia won't use nuclear weapons.  If Hitler had nuclear weapons he probably would have used them.  Hitler pretended to believe in GOD and used it as propaganda.  Hell, the old USofA did use nuclear weapons and harmed and killed thousands of civilians.

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

6 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

ive said this several times but ill say it again.  we go to incredible lengths to prevent places like Iran from getting nukes.  everyone seems to agree that if Iran gets them, they will nuke places.  its to the point where if Iran gets too close to building them, Israel will strike and bomb Irans facilities.  no one has a problem with this.

but then we turn to Russia and some people just magically assume Russia wont nuke because its all a fake and no world leaders are that radical.

 

these two world views are incompatible but i see some people clinging to them and the cognitive dissonance.  if iran is a threat, so is russia.  if russia is not a threat because no world leaders are that radical, then our iran policy is horrible and iran should be allowed nukes.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Some interesting news today fro Congress.

Two senators, Richard Blumenthal (D) and Lindsey Graham (R) are proposing legislation to automatically invoke Article 5 if there is a "radiological incident" in Ukraine that "contaminates NATO" which of course only NATO will be allowed to inspect and determine.  That's pretty loose language to begin with.  A nuke?  Dirty bomb?  Explosion at a nuclear power plant that gets falsely blamed on Russia?  Using U238 ammo?  Who knows.  Anyway, all this does is push the globe even closer to a nuclear war.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/us-senate-proposes-radioactive-contamination-050729059.html

US Senate proposes that radioactive contamination of NATO territory caused by Russia be considered as attack on Alliance

Ukrainska Pravda Thu, June 22, 2023 at 10:07 PM PDT·3 min read

he US Senate has introduced a resolution which proposes that the actions of Russia, Belarus "or proxy of Russia" be considered as an attack on NATO, if their actions lead to radioactive contamination of the allies' territory.

Source: resolution introduced by Republican Senator Lindsey Graham and Democrat Richard Blumenthal, as reported by European Pravda

Details: They note that they were prompted to introduce the resolution by Russia's announced placement of tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Well there apparently is some sort of coup starting in Moscow.  I had been hearing that something huge was coming this morning with the normal channels sparking with activity and looks like this is it.  but, fog of war on that as well making it hard to determine what is going on.  Remember that Putin is the moderate.  Pretty much everyone else in the power structure wants to nuke the US.  So this is really really bad.   there was a bill introduced by 2 US senators to invoke article 5 if Russia used anything nuclear, and now it makes more sense as if Putin is out, Russia is using nukes.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Article 5 is just useless because if Russia uses a nuke somewhere and NATO invokes article 5 to start a conventional war with Russia, Russia would respond by launching all of its nukes at the West and the world ends.  If NATOs mission is to end the world, then they should do that. 

[Voltaire 5,202]

3 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

Well there apparently is some sort of coup starting in Moscow.  I had been hearing that something huge was coming this morning with the normal channels sparking with activity and looks like this is it.  but, fog of war on that as well making it hard to determine what is going on.  Remember that Putin is the moderate.  Pretty much everyone else in the power structure wants to nuke the US.  So this is really really bad.   there was a bill introduced by 2 US senators to invoke article 5 if Russia used anything nuclear, and now it makes more sense as if Putin is out, Russia is using nukes.

This is a scary thought but I'm not seeing Prighozin as one of the people pushing the use of nukes, in at least one instance opposed. Do you have any links we can read as to what he believes in regards to nukes? Thanks.

[nobody 2,564]

Keep in mind that when everyone else was posting about how Prigozhin was taking soldiers into Russia and treating it as newsworthy, Justin dismissed that because generals get fired a lot.  

It's possible Justin's sources aren't that good.

[thegeneral 2,910]

7 minutes ago, nobody said:

Keep in mind that when everyone else was posting about how Prigozhin was taking soldiers into Russia and treating it as newsworthy, Justin dismissed that because generals get fired a lot.  

It's possible Justin's sources aren't that good.

Random shet on Twitter, half of which is trolling, bots, or some propaganda program from Russia.

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

6 hours ago, Voltaire said:

This is a scary thought but I'm not seeing Prighozin as one of the people pushing the use of nukes, in at least one instance opposed. Do you have any links we can read as to what he believes in regards to nukes? Thanks.

He could tell his "sources," but then he'd have to kill you. Shhhhh ... just take his world for it. He was president of his junior high chess club, you know.

[Voltaire 5,202]

Justin isn't wrong to worry about Russian nukes; there really have been sabre rattling advocates for nukes in Russian circles. With the country undergoing a coup, it'd be really nice to know if the coup leadership has such people in their ranks.

I know I'm going to want to know what Prighozen has been saying publicly about that and the war generally. Killing civilians doesn't seem to bother him. 

Focking destabilized county with nukes. Anything could happen.

[thegeneral 2,910]

9 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Justin isn't wrong to worry about Russian nukes; there really have been sabre rattling advocates for nukes in Russian circles. With the country undergoing a coup, it'd be really nice to know if the coup leadership has such people in their ranks.

I know I'm going to want to know what Prighozen has been saying publicly about that and the war generally. Killing civilians doesn't seem to bother him. 

Focking destabilized county with nukes. Anything could happen.

Yeah. Any country in a war that NATO is on the other side of that now has its own mercenary army attacking other factions of their military is a sketchy situation.

Go back through and read this thread though. Justin is either having fun or is a bit wacky.

[nobody 2,564]

54 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Justin isn't wrong to worry about Russian nukes; there really have been sabre rattling advocates for nukes in Russian circles. With the country undergoing a coup, it'd be really nice to know if the coup leadership has such people in their ranks.

I know I'm going to want to know what Prighozen has been saying publicly about that and the war generally. Killing civilians doesn't seem to bother him. 

Focking destabilized county with nukes. Anything could happen.

You may want to research Alexey Dyumin

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

44 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Yeah. Any country in a war that NATO is on the other side of that now has its own mercenary army attacking other factions of their military is a sketchy situation.

Go back through and read this thread though. Justin is either having fun or is a bit wacky.

No, Justy has been on this nuke kick ever since his guarantees of civil war imploded, so he can take a benign weather forecast and turn it into the point over which nuclear war begins.

[Voltaire 5,202]

Well that was over too soon after it began and it's turned out to be a wet paper bag. Just as I was getting caught up in the hoopla, too. The results are especially disappointing considering how much hilarity potential was available in that situation. 

At least we didn't go (((BOOM))), so that's a plus.

I guess carry on with your war, fellas.

[nobody 2,564]

I wonder if Russia will look back at June 23rd as the day Russian democracy almost died.

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

2 hours ago, Voltaire said:

Well that was over too soon after it began and it's turned out to be a wet paper bag. Just as I was getting caught up in the hoopla, too. The results are especially disappointing considering how much hilarity potential was available in that situation. 

At least we didn't go (((BOOM))), so that's a plus.

I guess carry on with your war, fellas.

This all makes Putin look weaker than ever. First, some uppity private-military head starts marching on Moscow and gets pretty close, and then he decides to just call it off after a deal that allows him and his soldiers to toodle off to Belarus and not face consequences. Terrible look for Putin.

Meanwhile, Ukraine is reporting progress with its offensive.

Crazy stuff going on.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

apparently the west thinks theres a good chance putin will be weakened enough by all of this to finally give in to all the hardliners surrounding him and nuke the us.

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

6 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

apparently the west thinks theres a good chance putin will be weakened enough by all of this to finally give in to all the hardliners surrounding him and nuke the us.

You could take a breakfast-cereal commercial and turn it into a sign that nuclear war is imminent.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Architect of Russias invasion of Ukraine suggests that Russia needs to nuke a bunch of targets in a number of countries.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-nuclear-weapons-attack-putin-1.6885338

Is the first use of nuclear weapons ever justified? A top adviser to Vladimir Putin now says yes

Escalation of nuclear threats from Russia coincides with Ukraine's counteroffensive

Chris Brown · CBC News · Posted: Jun 23, 2023 1:00 AM PDT | Last Updated: June 23

"The enemy must know that we are ready to deliver a pre-emptive strike ... to prevent a slide into global thermonuclear war," wrote Sergei Karaganov, chair of the Council on Foreign and Defence Policy, a prestigious Russian think-tank, and an adviser to Putin.

Karaganov is believed to be one of the architects of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and has frequently provided an ideological justification for waging war on that country.

He says the only way Russia may be able to break the will of Western countries so they stop helping Ukraine is by launching nuclear weapons at "a bunch of targets in a number of countries."

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

1 minute ago, JustinCharge said:

Architect of Russias invasion of Ukraine suggests that Russia needs to nuke a bunch of targets in a number of countries.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-nuclear-weapons-attack-putin-1.6885338

Is the first use of nuclear weapons ever justified? A top adviser to Vladimir Putin now says yes

Escalation of nuclear threats from Russia coincides with Ukraine's counteroffensive

Chris Brown · CBC News · Posted: Jun 23, 2023 1:00 AM PDT | Last Updated: June 23

"The enemy must know that we are ready to deliver a pre-emptive strike ... to prevent a slide into global thermonuclear war," wrote Sergei Karaganov, chair of the Council on Foreign and Defence Policy, a prestigious Russian think-tank, and an adviser to Putin.

Karaganov is believed to be one of the architects of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and has frequently provided an ideological justification for waging war on that country.

He says the only way Russia may be able to break the will of Western countries so they stop helping Ukraine is by launching nuclear weapons at "a bunch of targets in a number of countries."

That man must not be very smart.  If they nuke multiple countries then Russia will be wiped off the face of the planet.

[Blue Horseshoe 348]

3 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

Architect of Russias invasion of Ukraine suggests that Russia needs to nuke a bunch of targets in a number of countries.

 

Why do that to start? 

I'm not saying it's outside the range of possibility that Russia would use conventional nuclear weapons in Ukraine ( or even elsewhere) but why start there? 

If Putin wants to bleed out NATO, he simply starts false flag attacks against Taiwan and China. Then another false flag attack against a US carrier. You drag Xi Jinping into World War 3 by challenging "Chinese Exceptionalism" The CCP cannot be perceived to "lose face" in public, even if they know it's a false flag attack. Taiwan is not keen on engaging in a prolonged endless proxy war by themselves. They'll be more than happy to help spin any narrative to drag the US into the fight. 

What gave Winston Churchhill the most relief during WW2? The day that Hitler declared war on Stalin and Russia. Now Germany was split into wars on two fronts. If Putin wants to derail the weapons pipeline from the US and NATO into Ukraine, then give them another "war" to fight as well. 

You could achieve a greater result for Putin with two small operational Russian Tier 1 cells with suitcase nukes plus hire mercenaries to hit an American carrier group. 

If an American carrier is attacked and the sitting POTUS ( be it a Republican or Democrat) does nothing, they will likely lose the next two general election cycles at minimum. It would also risk the acceleration point of a full blown military coup. 

It's the strategy I would use. Trigger an endless war between the CCP and Taiwan, then use black bag operations to hit as many convoys and commercial shipping vessels as possible. If you choke out Taiwan, then they'll be forced to, if it gets bad enough, to use chemical weapons packages in China in retaliation. Then the conflict will not longer be about taking Taiwan for it's resources and logistical value, it becomes a precursor for Xi to justify outright genocide. Don't believe it will happen? Ask the Uighurs. Once the stories get out about children in Taiwan being loaded into trucks to be forcibly sterilized, used for organ harvesting and be treated like slave labor when they aren't being gang raped, then NATO won't be able to contain the narrative against them any longer. This is the pathway to World War 3. 

You are promoting Step 38 on a list that is only at about Step 7 in a realistic geopolitical context. 

Put it this way, if Russia and Putin were really going to hit other nations with nukes, you wouldn't be hearing about it in the international daily media cycle. This is "saber rattling" by Putin. Nothing more. He's very vulnerable right now after losing most of the command and control elements to Wagner PMC. 

Conventional nuclear arms are not off the table. But right now it's at the other end of the table. 

I don't agree with how you are generally treated in this thread, I don't believe it's fair or right. But I will say this. What you are reading in the current MSM from the national or international daily media cycle are only things that the existing "establishment" want you to hear.

 "News is what the powerful want to keep hidden. Everything else is publicity."   - Bill Moyers

 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

I see more and more people coming around to the conclusion that NATO wants a nuclear war.  It seems pretty obvious.  Everyone in the know at this point realizes Putin is the moderate holding it back and can clearly see that NATO wants Putin gone.  It all adds up to more and more people.  And its really terrifying.  We need Biden removed from office pronto.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

On 6/26/2023 at 2:05 PM, Blue Horseshoe said:

Why do that to start?

Russia has ZERO chance to win a conventional war against NATO.  If it tries, it will lose badly and get partitioned or something.  The ONLY chance Russia has to win how WW2 ended.  Russia nukes a few NATO cities and orders them to kneel.  And if they don't, if they even hesitate, then Russia launches all the nukes.  The second Russia invaded Ukraine, this was the only endgame.  The thing is, Putin doesn't want to do it really.  He is the moderate.  But most everyone else in the halls of power in Russia are ready to push the button.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

11 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

I see more and more people coming around to the conclusion that NATO wants a nuclear war.  It seems pretty obvious.  Everyone in the know at this point realizes Putin is the moderate holding it back and can clearly see that NATO wants Putin gone.  It all adds up to more and more people.  And its really terrifying.  We need Biden removed from office pronto.

Congrats. You've reached Boss Level Lunacy.

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

16 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

Russia has ZERO chance to win a conventional war against NATO.  If it tries, it will lose badly and get partitioned or something.  The ONLY chance Russia has to win how WW2 ended.  Russia nukes a few NATO cities and orders them to kneel.  And if they don't, if they even hesitate, then Russia launches all the nukes.  The second Russia invaded Ukraine, this was the only endgame.  The thing is, Putin doesn't want to do it really.  He is the moderate.  But most everyone else in the halls of power in Russia are ready to push the button.

So in the span of 3 minutes you went from your longtime Putin-will-nuke stance to NATO wanting nuclear war and Putin being the stable presence in the apocalypse room to Putin torching up the world with nukes.

You must be a joy to have around at the Fourth of July family picnic, where one relative after another avoids you and then makes excuses - like going to the bathroom or a sudden death in the family - to move away from you quickly after you attempt to engage them in your thermonuclear crazy talk.

[FrancieFootball 96]

26 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

I see more and more people coming around to the conclusion that NATO wants a nuclear war.  It seems pretty obvious.  Everyone in the know at this point realizes Putin is the moderate holding it back and can clearly see that NATO wants Putin gone.  It all adds up to more and more people.  And its really terrifying.  We need Biden removed from office pronto.

You're an odd little fellow. Do you take medication for anxiety? 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

49 minutes ago, FrancieFootball said:

You're an odd little fellow. Do you take medication for anxiety? 

i tell the truth.  i havent been laughed at this hard since all the liberals on FBG mocked me for saying Russia is going to war with the West.  Remember, this is the party that mocked Romney for saying Russia was a threat.  It was so bad they permabanned me and deleted the posts so i couldnt go back and pint out how wrong they  were.  They are clueless and ive proved them wrong time and again. 

it wouldnt surprise me at all if part of the reason Joe Bryant shut down the political forum was because i got completely vindicated on my russia stance and the lefties over there went nuts because of that.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

1 hour ago, Pimpadeaux said:

So in the span of 3 minutes you went from your longtime Putin-will-nuke stance to NATO wanting nuclear war and Putin being the stable presence in the apocalypse room to Putin torching up the world with nukes.

You must be a joy to have around at the Fourth of July family picnic, where one relative after another avoids you and then makes excuses - like going to the bathroom or a sudden death in the family - to move away from you quickly after you attempt to engage them in your thermonuclear crazy talk.

are you going to attack Joe Biden in the same way?  hes been warning repeatedly that nuclear war is a serious threat.  are you gonna say Biden and his admin must be a joy to have at parties?   are you going to say everyone4 avoids Joe?  nope.  because you dont believe what you are saying.  You just keep ignoring facts and troll away.

ignore this fool.

[FrancieFootball 96]

1 minute ago, JustinCharge said:

i tell the truth.  i havent been laughed at this hard since all the liberals on FBG mocked me for saying Russia is going to war with the West.  Remember, this is the party that mocked Romney for saying Russia was a threat.  It was so bad they permabanned me and deleted the posts so i couldnt go back and pint out how wrong they  were.  They are clueless and ive proved them wrong time and again. 

It's OK, love. I'll listen. In all this soul turmoil from which you are suffering, something inside me says there is some truth and reality in your knowledge and instincts. I'm cautiously listening. 

[thegeneral 2,910]

1 hour ago, JustinCharge said:

Russia has ZERO chance to win a conventional war against NATO.  If it tries, it will lose badly and get partitioned or something.  The ONLY chance Russia has to win how WW2 ended.  Russia nukes a few NATO cities and orders them to kneel.  And if they don't, if they even hesitate, then Russia launches all the nukes.  The second Russia invaded Ukraine, this was the only endgame.  The thing is, Putin doesn't want to do it really.  He is the moderate.  But most everyone else in the halls of power in Russia are ready to push the button.

Wow. That’s one point of view.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

1 hour ago, Pimpadeaux said:

So in the span of 3 minutes you went from your longtime Putin-will-nuke stance to NATO wanting nuclear war and Putin being the stable presence in the apocalypse room to Putin torching up the world with nukes.

You must be a joy to have around at the Fourth of July family picnic, where one relative after another avoids you and then makes excuses - like going to the bathroom or a sudden death in the family - to move away from you quickly after you attempt to engage them in your thermonuclear crazy talk.

hey y'all mad at me, right? but theres one thing you better know. and that is, that i love all of you all.  listen, can i explain something about being a daddy? the daddy is the breadwinner. you dig what im sayin'? if you dont win that bread...you just dont come around.

yeah.

i mean, hey baby.  we got this real sweet thing going on and it can go on forever like this as far as im concerned, so dont look so down.

OH LORDY WHAT TO DO WHEN THE ROMANCE IS GONE!

[nobody 2,564]

8 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

are you going to attack Joe Biden in the same way?  hes been warning repeatedly that nuclear war is a serious threat.  are you gonna say Biden and his admin must be a joy to have at parties?   are you going to say everyone4 avoids Joe?  nope.  because you dont believe what you are saying.  You just keep ignoring facts and troll away.

ignore this fool.

I will when Biden says that Russia is guaranteed to nuke US cities.  Russia has no choice but to nuke US cities.  The US should or will "bend the knee" to Putin, or that Russia will nuke the world in order to keep LGBT morals from spreading into Russia.

Saying that Russia is a threat to use nukes is a factual statement.  What you say isn't factual.

[Blue Horseshoe 348]

5 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

Russia has ZERO chance to win a conventional war against NATO.  If it tries, it will lose badly and get partitioned or something.  The ONLY chance Russia has to win how WW2 ended.  Russia nukes a few NATO cities and orders them to kneel.  And if they don't, if they even hesitate, then Russia launches all the nukes.  The second Russia invaded Ukraine, this was the only endgame.  The thing is, Putin doesn't want to do it really.  He is the moderate.  But most everyone else in the halls of power in Russia are ready to push the button.

 

DARPA has run several broad scale simulations on potential world wide nuclear war. Some data has been made public, some of it has not. 

The working theory is that the world would lose practical food production for 30 years, at minimum. Since the "safety valve" in Europe would be the nuclear arsenals of France and England, and given their practical distribution and quantity ( 400-450 total weapons between them), then Russia could not be spared even if they attempted an all out first strike with total saturation. The climate impact would be devastating. The entire world would plunge into endless starvation, well those who aren't incinerated first. 

America's nuclear policy includes practical decentralized command and control of it's nuclear arsenal. ( The functional assumption is key decision makers and key areas are going to get hit at some point in the early exchange)  Putin has no ability to stop a 2nd and even 3rd wave bombardment from America's nuclear triad redundancy. 

There is absolutely no such thing as limited conventional nuclear warfare. This is a purely binary situation. No one pushes the button or it's all out nuclear holocaust. Putin is not a villain from a James Bond film. He needs the cooperation of the wealthy elite "oligarchs" in his country to stay in power. Do they want to live in a bunker with their children and grandchildren for 30 years? Also, as I said before, their kids are spread out all over the world. It's really not that simple to just start launching nukes without any other practical considerations.

Why does Russia need to do anything at all? It's strategy against NATO is to bunker in and bunker down. No other nation can invade Russia and succeed. Even if they could in some fashion, it would be impossible to hold. The Russian military is built upon fighting a defensive war. 

Most of my discussion pathway is logistical. I'm looking at the practical mechanics of actual potential nuclear war and nuclear holocaust. Most of what you are are saying seems derived from MSM clickbait, no offense. 

Again, you seem to be on Step 234 on a list where the current situation is on Step 8. Could the situation devolve and tragically get to item 234? Sure, it's entirely possible, but it's not very likely right now. Fill in the blanks between Step 8 and Step 234, and that's a long road. If you can detail out how that works and how that has a practical logistical process and framework, I'm willing to hear you out. 

At the end of WW2, Hitler ordered Paris to be razed to the ground. And it didn't happen. The men under Putin's command are not robots. You can give orders all day and if the end result is nuclear holocaust, you are relying on total blind adherence to a pure madman. You could put a gun to someone's head, but if that man thinks he and his family are going to die anyway in nuclear hellfire and total world starvation, then what does he have to lose to refuse to obey? There is a human element here that soaks deeper than just projectible geopolitical reality. 

[frank 2,276]

56 minutes ago, Blue Horseshoe said:

 

DARPA has run several broad scale simulations on potential world wide nuclear war. Some data has been made public, some of it has not. 

The working theory is that the world would lose practical food production for 30 years, at minimum. Since the "safety valve" in Europe would be the nuclear arsenals of France and England, and given their practical distribution and quantity ( 400-450 total weapons between them), then Russia could not be spared even if they attempted an all out first strike with total saturation. The climate impact would be devastating. The entire world would plunge into endless starvation, well those who aren't incinerated first. 

America's nuclear policy includes practical decentralized command and control of it's nuclear arsenal. ( The functional assumption is key decision makers and key areas are going to get hit at some point in the early exchange)  Putin has no ability to stop a 2nd and even 3rd wave bombardment from America's nuclear triad redundancy. 

There is absolutely no such thing as limited conventional nuclear warfare. This is a purely binary situation. No one pushes the button or it's all out nuclear holocaust. Putin is not a villain from a James Bond film. He needs the cooperation of the wealthy elite "oligarchs" in his country to stay in power. Do they want to live in a bunker with their children and grandchildren for 30 years? Also, as I said before, their kids are spread out all over the world. It's really not that simple to just start launching nukes without any other practical considerations.

Why does Russia need to do anything at all? It's strategy against NATO is to bunker in and bunker down. No other nation can invade Russia and succeed. Even if they could in some fashion, it would be impossible to hold. The Russian military is built upon fighting a defensive war. 

Most of my discussion pathway is logistical. I'm looking at the practical mechanics of actual potential nuclear war and nuclear holocaust. Most of what you are are saying seems derived from MSM clickbait, no offense. 

Again, you seem to be on Step 234 on a list where the current situation is on Step 8. Could the situation devolve and tragically get to item 234? Sure, it's entirely possible, but it's not very likely right now. Fill in the blanks between Step 8 and Step 234, and that's a long road. If you can detail out how that works and how that has a practical logistical process and framework, I'm willing to hear you out. 

At the end of WW2, Hitler ordered Paris to be razed to the ground. And it didn't happen. The men under Putin's command are not robots. You can give orders all day and if the end result is nuclear holocaust, you are relying on total blind adherence to a pure madman. You could put a gun to someone's head, but if that man thinks he and his family are going to die anyway in nuclear hellfire and total world starvation, then what does he have to lose to refuse to obey? There is a human element here that soaks deeper than just projectible geopolitical reality. 

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

[GutterBoy 2,898]

4 hours ago, nobody said:

I will when Biden says that Russia is guaranteed to nuke us cities.  Russia has no choice but to nuke us cities.  The US should or will "bend the knee" to Putin, or that Russia will nuke the world in order to keep LGBT morals from spreading into Russia.

Saying that Russia is a threat to use nukes is a factual statement.  What you say isn't factual.

What about Putin wants to nuke the world to save everyone's souls for giving transgender operations.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

1 hour ago, frank said:

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

I'm digging your 80s movie quotes