White people "get the hell away from black people"

[BuckSwope 654]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

The answer depends on who you ask, and what their political motivations are.  But the real answer is that people tend to kill within their "group" more so than outside.

It is just politically expedient to pretend there is some secret white villany against black people.....you can make money from it and also gain power, so they propogate it. 

not really - I don't see people denying that people murder within their own race at a high %.   Where I see the political leans come into play is the "why" of the stat of the elevated violent crimes in those communities.   

HT thinks it's some awesome "gotcha" that nobody is actually saying.  

[BuckSwope 654]

2 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

Same here.  I'm a pretty docile guy and firmly believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, however misguided it may be, but this is something that actually angers me.  And add in the fact that people who say that blacks are inherently violent use crime stats to back up their racism, it's just sad, and I wish there weren't people like this still in the world.

Another piece of the puzzle that people don't seem to bring up or want to talk about is that (to my understanding) the numbers we are using are from convictions for said crimes.   People with good lawyers and means could have down the same crime, but it's gets a lesser charge.  If we are looking at historical data we need to keep that in mind too.  It's not like we are looking at stats from an omniscient being that knows exactly who did what.  

Largely what we see here is what I have noticed more and more about core differences between liberal and conservative, and one that sticks out a lot and seems to be a fundamental difference when I talk to people is nature vs. nurture and how much you think external factors are at play.  On this issue they seem to be telling me they think there is something in black people making them this way - they don't seem to want to talk about any factors that might have come into play to create these stats that come from outside of the blacks and their community.  Their reasons are them, their culture, their music, etc.     I don't see it that way, and I seem to battle with people on the right a bit about this core idea.  "I did X, why can't you?' is the attitude that drives me crazy, and I see a lot from that side of the aisle.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,512]

50 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Well, you asked about crime, and he answered with violent crime/murder.    I see that happen a ton. 

People need to stop exaggerating the issues (in-general statement, not saying you're doing it).

The Department of Justice put out there that black people are responsible for 51% of the murder/homicides... NOT violent crime (I believe that number was 38%).

Based on the numbers only (the D.O.J. did not report this, it's simply using numbers to extrapolate)... black men between the ages of 18-34 are responsible for 92% of those murders/homicides.  So, in essence, you can break it down further to say that about 3% of the population (black men), are responsible for approximately 47% of the murders and homicides.  That's a pretty substantial stat.

 

Now, we know that the vast majority of murder/homicides committed by black people are against black people.  The issue that I have with the Democrat stance is that this is caused by systemic racism (meaning, white Republican's).  Why I have that issue is because black-on-black crime is found in the inner cities, that Democrats have monopolized government for anywhere from 50 to 70 years.

[Wade Garrett 155]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

People need to stop exaggerating the issues (in-general statement, not saying you're doing it).

The Department of Justice put out there that black people are responsible for 51% of the murder/homicides... NOT violent crime (I believe that number was 38%).

Based on the numbers only (the D.O.J. did not report this, it's simply using numbers to extrapolate)... black men between the ages of 18-34 are responsible for 92% of those murders/homicides.  So, in essence, you can break it down further to say that about 3% of the population (black men), are responsible for approximately 47% of the murders and homicides.  That's a pretty substantial stat.

 

Now, we know that the vast majority of murder/homicides committed by black people are against black people.  The issue that I have with the Democrat stance is that this is caused by systemic racism (meaning, white Republican's).  Why I have that issue is because black-on-black crime is found in the inner cities, that Democrats have monopolized government for anywhere from 50 to 70 years.

Please show me where democrats blame black on black crime on systemic racism.

We say poverty is the main contributor but the black community definitely needs to get their crap together and begin to prioritize education and two parent households rather than rap stars and athletes. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,512]

1 minute ago, Wade Garrett said:

Please show me where democrats blame black on black crime on systemic racism.

We say poverty is the main contributor but the black community definitely needs to get their crap together and begin to prioritize education and two parent households rather than rap stars and athletes. 

Look at the little communist playing word games.  LOL

 

Poverty is the main contributor to systemic racism?  What does poverty lead too Commie?

[BuckSwope 654]

12 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Look at the little communist playing word games.  LOL

 

Poverty is the main contributor to systemic racism?  What does poverty lead too Commie?

I think he is saying poverty, lack of jobs, low education, population density are all predictable drivers of crime rates.  Many of those were created by purposeful policies throughout our history. 

[Wade Garrett 155]

13 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Look at the little communist playing word games.  LOL

 

Poverty is the main contributor to systemic racism?  What does poverty lead too Commie?

Your reading comprehension is as expected.

Luckily BuckSwope broke it down for you since you struggle. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,512]

10 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I think he is saying poverty, lack of jobs, low education, population density are all predictable drivers of crime rates.  Many of those were created by purposeful policies throughout our history. 

Which take place where?  Predominantly in the inner cites (as evidence of the crime rates), which again, are areas monopolized by Democrat policies from time ranges of 50 to 70 years.

 

Any time a conservative wants to address issues regarding the black population, be it crime, education, poverty, etc. they're met with accusations of racism.  So simply, people like him, can fock off.

[RLLD 4,187]

52 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

not really - I don't see people denying that people murder within their own race at a high %.   Where I see the political leans come into play is the "why" of the stat of the elevated violent crimes in those communities.   

HT thinks it's some awesome "gotcha" that nobody is actually saying.  

We are not readign the same propoganda, but I also allow that the propogonda is maleable and MSM will adjust what they say to the situation.

Most of the time the tactic is used as a deflection when there is some pointing to the statistical nature of crime.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,512]

12 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Your reading comprehension is as expected.

Luckily BuckSwope broke it down for you since you struggle. 

No, I saw through your bull crap, he didn't.  Get back to your propaganda Mr. Stalin.

[jerryskids 6,694]

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

Yea, I go over the top and make a lot of sarcastic comments… doesn’t mean I think Jerry is a Nazi. He definitely isn’t. Sorry it’s just my style of communication for better or worse. 

Thanks.   

8 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Another piece of the puzzle that people don't seem to bring up or want to talk about is that (to my understanding) the numbers we are using are from convictions for said crimes.   People with good lawyers and means could have down the same crime, but it's gets a lesser charge.  If we are looking at historical data we need to keep that in mind too.  It's not like we are looking at stats from an omniscient being that knows exactly who did what.  

Largely what we see here is what I have noticed more and more about core differences between liberal and conservative, and one that sticks out a lot and seems to be a fundamental difference when I talk to people is nature vs. nurture and how much you think external factors are at play.  On this issue they seem to be telling me they think there is something in black people making them this way - they don't seem to want to talk about any factors that might have come into play to create these stats that come from outside of the blacks and their community.  Their reasons are them, their culture, their music, etc.     I don't see it that way, and I seem to battle with people on the right a bit about this core idea.  "I did X, why can't you?' is the attitude that drives me crazy, and I see a lot from that side of the aisle.  

And thanks for defending me with dogcows.   

Regarding the above, if convictions are used, you bring up a valid consideration.  I don't exactly think most murderers of any color are getting Clarence Darrow as their attorney, but there are known discrepancies in sentencing for POC.  It's one of the few areas of actual systemic racism which I believe are worth addressing (and the answer isn't to let violent offenders go free like some activist DAs are doing).

For your second paragraph, I've heard it said that liberals believe in the inherent goodness of people, whereas conservatives do not.  That model works pretty well but I don't think it quite fits me from the conservative side, and in fact I would argue in some ways the opposite.  For instance, I believe that the liberal approach to "helping" POC -- it's not your fault, here is some free stuff -- actually tacitly says that POC can't make it on their own.

Regarding culture, I absolutely believe that the inner city black culture (fueled by the above liberal approach) is a major if not THE major factor in the issues facing that community.  I believe they can fix it over time, but they have to want to do it.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,197]

And yet poor, uneducated non Hispanic white people aren’t killing nearly at the rate blacks are.  Poverty my ass.  It’s the culture. 

[BuckSwope 654]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

We are not readign the same propoganda, but I also allow that the propogonda is maleable and MSM will adjust what they say to the situation.

Most of the time the tactic is used as a deflection when there is some pointing to the statistical nature of crime.

 

I'm also on 0 social media, so I largely avoid idiots who might say that too. 

[RLLD 4,187]

10 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I'm also on 0 social media, so I largely avoid idiots who might say that too. 

Right, same, I hear it from politicians.....but, thats more or less the same thing 

[squistion 2,091]

15 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Yeah that's not going to work. You're going to need to do better than that. Please show your work.

This is the question you have to answer: What percentage of crime do Blacks commit in the United States?

You're the one disputing that. You need to show your work.

I did show my work. Read the link. 

[BuckSwope 654]

44 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Right, same, I hear it from politicians.....but, thats more or less the same thing 

Yeah, I try not to listen to them.  Lol

[BuckSwope 654]

4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No, I saw through your bull crap, he didn't.  Get back to your propaganda Mr. Stalin.

I haven't been here long enough to pick up on all the in-house squabbles and aliases yet.  

[Dizkneelande 1,093]

The leftists don’t want to admit it but the numbers don’t lie and are easily verified. Data suggest propensity for violence is a result of low IQ. That isn’t racism, it’s reality. African Americans have the lowest IQ of all ethnic groups in the USA. Leftist policies and the leftist public education system has failed the African American community. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

29 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

The leftists don’t want to admit it but the numbers don’t lie and are easily verified. Data suggest propensity for violence is a result of low IQ. That isn’t racism, it’s reality. African Americans have the lowest IQ of all ethnic groups in the USA. Leftist policies and the leftist public education system has failed the African American community. 

What leftist policies can we reverse so we stop making blacks dumb and violent?

[avoiding injuries 1,552]

29 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

What leftist policies can we reverse so we stop making blacks dumb and violent?

For starters, all of them. 

[Dizkneelande 1,093]

9 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

For starters, all of them. 

This 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,197]

They helped blacks out by counting Hispanics as white for the purposes of crime stats but separate for everything else. Nifty trick. 

[BuckSwope 654]

4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Which take place where?  Predominantly in the inner cites (as evidence of the crime rates), which again, are areas monopolized by Democrat policies from time ranges of 50 to 70 years.

 

Any time a conservative wants to address issues regarding the black population, be it crime, education, poverty, etc. they're met with accusations of racism.  So simply, people like him, can fock off.

Of course - that's why I listed population density.    I understand your point about being tired of democrats complaining about something that they, in theory, should be able to address since they largely are mayors of these places. That's a fair criticism.     I see places like Jacksonville pretty high on the crime rankings - if I remember right, R mayor in an R state.   Why can't they address the issue effectively? 

You didn't refute anything from my post you quoted above - did you agree with what I wrote about the causes and some created by purposeful policies? 

 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

7 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

Well, you asked about crime, and he answered with violent crime/murder.    I see that happen a ton. 

I can give you the total crime numbers as well.  But the whole focus of the discussion lately has been on fearing blacks, which correlates to violent crime imo.  But I do have the numbers and am happy to show them.  I’ll dig them up later.

[BuckSwope 654]

5 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Thanks.   

And thanks for defending me with dogcows.   

Regarding the above, if convictions are used, you bring up a valid consideration.  I don't exactly think most murderers of any color are getting Clarence Darrow as their attorney, but there are known discrepancies in sentencing for POC.  It's one of the few areas of actual systemic racism which I believe are worth addressing (and the answer isn't to let violent offenders go free like some activist DAs are doing).

For your second paragraph, I've heard it said that liberals believe in the inherent goodness of people, whereas conservatives do not.  That model works pretty well but I don't think it quite fits me from the conservative side, and in fact I would argue in some ways the opposite.  For instance, I believe that the liberal approach to "helping" POC -- it's not your fault, here is some free stuff -- actually tacitly says that POC can't make it on their own.

Regarding culture, I absolutely believe that the inner city black culture (fueled by the above liberal approach) is a major if not THE major factor in the issues facing that community.  I believe they can fix it over time, but they have to want to do it.

I appreciate decent conversation and that is scarce around here.   I've had good conversations with you.  

I have 0 clue how much it's influencing some of those stats, but if a similar crime happens and one is charged as murder and the other a lesser charge, we should keep that possibility in the back of our mind - especially when I see murder rate used quite a bit in these discussions.  

I guess I hadn't heard it put that way in the bolded, but I guess there are ties to what I was saying as well.  After thinking about that, I can see that coming out in people's posts too.  I would say that I am for sure in the camp that thinks people are inherently good or at least mostly good, and that their environment is a huge driver.   Anybody who can read can see that I do agree with each party on issues, but I think that core philosophy of mine is a roadblock in discussion with people who lean hard right.  

Let's keep the discussion going - what do you mean specifically when you talk about black culture?  I have thoughts, but I wanted to be talking about the same things. 

[BuckSwope 654]

1 minute ago, Patented Phil said:

I can give you the total crime numbers as well.  But the whole focus of the discussion lately has been on fearing blacks, which correlates to violent crime imo.  But I do have the numbers and am happy to show them.  I’ll dig them up later.

No need, I looked at them the other day.  Not sure if 2022 was in there, but I was looking at the FBI crime stats by race. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

36 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

For starters, all of them. 

So you wanna lower the minimum wage?  That gonna make blacks less violent and stupid?

[Patented Phil 1,469]

Teenage elephants need a father figure
 

[jerryskids 6,694]

1 hour ago, BuckSwope said:

I appreciate decent conversation and that is scarce around here.   I've had good conversations with you.  

I have 0 clue how much it's influencing some of those stats, but if a similar crime happens and one is charged as murder and the other a lesser charge, we should keep that possibility in the back of our mind - especially when I see murder rate used quite a bit in these discussions.  

I guess I hadn't heard it put that way in the bolded, but I guess there are ties to what I was saying as well.  After thinking about that, I can see that coming out in people's posts too.  I would say that I am for sure in the camp that thinks people are inherently good or at least mostly good, and that their environment is a huge driver.   Anybody who can read can see that I do agree with each party on issues, but I think that core philosophy of mine is a roadblock in discussion with people who lean hard right.  

Let's keep the discussion going - what do you mean specifically when you talk about black culture?  I have thoughts, but I wanted to be talking about the same things. 

To me the three key areas for focused improvement are:  integral family unit, personal responsibility, and education.

Starting with the family unit:  in 1965 a report was issued warning about the 25% of black babies being born out of wedlock.  Today it is 70%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure

Granted, all demographics have increased in that time, but 70% cannot sustain a stable, successful community.

 

[BuckSwope 654]

44 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

To me the three key areas for focused improvement are:  integral family unit, personal responsibility, and education.

Starting with the family unit:  in 1965 a report was issued warning about the 25% of black babies being born out of wedlock.  Today it is 70%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure

Granted, all demographics have increased in that time, but 70% cannot sustain a stable, successful community.

 

Ok, I guessed those where largely what you were talking about, just wanted to make sure I didn't have to answer about some gangster rap nonsense.   

I should have asked a follow up question on the lines of how much of the above things do you place directly on the black community?   I guess we are getting back into our previous discussion about nature/nuture and people's outlooks on the world - my usual beginning thoughts is on the lines of thinking that giving people the environment, means, and infrastructure to succeed they largely will do so.   So my starting point is that if I had the ability to ask the community it would largely tell me that they don't WANT to be under educated or lacking traditional family structure.    I try to imagine how people I know would react to that history and environment.   

I guess what I am saying is that for education - that largely stems from funding, schools, teachers.   We can't put that all on the black community, and these poor communities have had deteriorating schools for years.   Not impossible, I'm not telling them to keep trying, but what I am saying is that it's a tougher ask if say - 70% of your schools are crap you can't be surprised if the outcome is also largely crap.   Family unit has many things swirling around it - increased incarcaration rates, incentives to not have the father in the house - from $ to single moms, to things like ex-cons not being able to be in the house when they get out.   Our prison system is absolutely jacked - we have 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's inmates?  I hope I didn't read that right - yeah, that is going to take a huge toll on communities, and amplify these issues.   I'm all for personal responsibility and choices, but if we look at these poor communities with few jobs and high incarcaration rates - I don't think it should be wholly surprising that the things you list have manifested out of those conditions.   

We have so many great things in this country, but one I wish wasn't so prevalent is how much profit motive drives every damn thing in the country.   IMO 2 huge things that we have been doing for money that has caused large damage is the war on drugs and for-profit prison systems.  Oh man is that an ungood combo, and IMO has done insane damage in the black communtity.  

[jerryskids 6,694]

46 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Ok, I guessed those where largely what you were talking about, just wanted to make sure I didn't have to answer about some gangster rap nonsense.   

I should have asked a follow up question on the lines of how much of the above things do you place directly on the black community?   I guess we are getting back into our previous discussion about nature/nuture and people's outlooks on the world - my usual beginning thoughts is on the lines of thinking that giving people the environment, means, and infrastructure to succeed they largely will do so.   So my starting point is that if I had the ability to ask the community it would largely tell me that they don't WANT to be under educated or lacking traditional family structure.    I try to imagine how people I know would react to that history and environment.   

I guess what I am saying is that for education - that largely stems from funding, schools, teachers.   We can't put that all on the black community, and these poor communities have had deteriorating schools for years.   Not impossible, I'm not telling them to keep trying, but what I am saying is that it's a tougher ask if say - 70% of your schools are crap you can't be surprised if the outcome is also largely crap.   Family unit has many things swirling around it - increased incarcaration rates, incentives to not have the father in the house - from $ to single moms, to things like ex-cons not being able to be in the house when they get out.   Our prison system is absolutely jacked - we have 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's inmates?  I hope I didn't read that right - yeah, that is going to take a huge toll on communities, and amplify these issues.   I'm all for personal responsibility and choices, but if we look at these poor communities with few jobs and high incarcaration rates - I don't think it should be wholly surprising that the things you list have manifested out of those conditions.   

We have so many great things in this country, but one I wish wasn't so prevalent is how much profit motive drives every damn thing in the country.   IMO 2 huge things that we have been doing for money that has caused large damage is the war on drugs and for-profit prison systems.  Oh man is that an ungood combo, and IMO has done insane damage in the black communtity.  

This focuses on reasons it is NOT the fault of the black community, which contradicts my second item, personal responsibility.  I'm not saying it is 100% on them, but until they acknowledge and take ownership of the problems, they will never get fixed.  Stop sitting around waiting for some white politician to get you more free stuff and tell you why it is not your fault you are failing, and figure out what you need to do to make life better for yourself and your family.

[TBayXXXVII 2,512]

4 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

Of course - that's why I listed population density.    I understand your point about being tired of democrats complaining about something that they, in theory, should be able to address since they largely are mayors of these places. That's a fair criticism.     I see places like Jacksonville pretty high on the crime rankings - if I remember right, R mayor in an R state.   Why can't they address the issue effectively? 

You didn't refute anything from my post you quoted above - did you agree with what I wrote about the causes and some created by purposeful policies? 

 

Oh, I agree with you, but where we will probably disagree is who's the most guilty.  Democrats, since the beginning and still to this day, put way more policies in place than Republicans that have a negative impact on not just blacks, but the poor as well.

I've never made the claim that the Republicans (as people), are any kind of moral compass... but neither are the Democrats.  I've always maintained that they're the lesser of 2 evils, and it's not even close.  Reason being, the Republicans don't really to pretend to care.

I liken the political parties to the likes of my nephew's best friends parents.  Everyone thinks this kids' father is terrible and his mother is great.  The reality is that his father is simply an azzhole, but his mother is a way worse piece of crap.  Why?  Because the father made it known he wants nothing to do with the kid (him or his sister).  He never sees them, never buys them anything, never supports them.  Complete douche bag right?  But, at least he doesn't pretend to care about them, like the mother does.  The mother favors the daughter, does everything for her, buys everything for her, and goes out of her way for her.  All while completely neglecting her son.  That kid spends more time at my house and my brother's house than his own house.  The mother always finds time and money to go on a trip to Europe, or Vegas, or North Carolina... but complains about money when her son needs $12 a week for a youth bowling league (20 weeks), or $12/wk for an adult / youth bowling league, or a one-time $150 registration for rec-league baseball.

Simply, his father is bad because he doesn't care about his kids, but the mother's worse, because she's the same way, but pretends to care.

[dogcows 1,030]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

This focuses on reasons it is NOT the fault of the black community, which contradicts my second item, personal responsibility.  I'm not saying it is 100% on them, but until they acknowledge and take ownership of the problems, they will never get fixed.  Stop sitting around waiting for some white politician to get you more free stuff and tell you why it is not your fault you are failing, and figure out what you need to do to make life better for yourself and your family.

The trope of black people supposedly asking for handouts all the time has become so prevalent over the years that black people generally go to the opposite extreme just to avoid the appearance of it.

Here’s one current example of that: GoFundMe.

https://health.wusf.usf.edu/npr-health/npr-health/2023-06-26/were-not-doing-that-a-black-couple-wont-crowdfund-to-pay-medical-debt

The story includes some individual stories as well as relevant statistical data, such as this:

Quote

In one recent study, Kenworthy and other researchers looked at 827 medical campaigns on GoFundMe that in 2020 had raised more than $100,000. They found only five were for Black women. Of those, two had white organizers.

Black women made up less than 1% of people asking for handouts, despite the fact that: “Black Americans are 50% more likely than white Americans to go into debt for medical or dental care.”

The other part of the “handout” narrative is that black people just waste their money anyway. In the below video, black people discuss the perception that they would spend money on “Newports and a Cadillac” (3:30 into the video). I’ll post it as a link since ff today makes YT videos take up way too much space on the page for some reason. Maybe the Blue Pony can take a hint when posting his vids?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGHP0QRydA4

[BuckSwope 654]

18 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

People need to stop exaggerating the issues (in-general statement, not saying you're doing it).

The Department of Justice put out there that black people are responsible for 51% of the murder/homicides... NOT violent crime (I believe that number was 38%).

Based on the numbers only (the D.O.J. did not report this, it's simply using numbers to extrapolate)... black men between the ages of 18-34 are responsible for 92% of those murders/homicides.  So, in essence, you can break it down further to say that about 3% of the population (black men), are responsible for approximately 47% of the murders and homicides.  That's a pretty substantial stat.

 

Now, we know that the vast majority of murder/homicides committed by black people are against black people.  The issue that I have with the Democrat stance is that this is caused by systemic racism (meaning, white Republican's).  Why I have that issue is because black-on-black crime is found in the inner cities, that Democrats have monopolized government for anywhere from 50 to 70 years.

 

7 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Oh, I agree with you, but where we will probably disagree is who's the most guilty.  Democrats, since the beginning and still to this day, put way more policies in place than Republicans that have a negative impact on not just blacks, but the poor as well.

I've never made the claim that the Republicans (as people), are any kind of moral compass... but neither are the Democrats.  I've always maintained that they're the lesser of 2 evils, and it's not even close.  Reason being, the Republicans don't really to pretend to care.

I liken the political parties to the likes of my nephew's best friends parents.  Everyone thinks this kids' father is terrible and his mother is great.  The reality is that his father is simply an azzhole, but his mother is a way worse piece of crap.  Why?  Because the father made it known he wants nothing to do with the kid (him or his sister).  He never sees them, never buys them anything, never supports them.  Complete douche bag right?  But, at least he doesn't pretend to care about them, like the mother does.  The mother favors the daughter, does everything for her, buys everything for her, and goes out of her way for her.  All while completely neglecting her son.  That kid spends more time at my house and my brother's house than his own house.  The mother always finds time and money to go on a trip to Europe, or Vegas, or North Carolina... but complains about money when her son needs $12 a week for a youth bowling league (20 weeks), or $12/wk for an adult / youth bowling league, or a one-time $150 registration for rec-league baseball.

Simply, his father is bad because he doesn't care about his kids, but the mother's worse, because she's the same way, but pretends to care.

I re-read your post and identified where our disagreement is - I don't think of it like that, and I honestly haven't run into the sentiment that it's only WHITE REPUBLICANS that people are talking about when they bring up systemic issues.   I really feel like I live in a different world than some of you. 

I've longed stop caring what label people around here and other boards give me, I just post my thoughts.  All I can say when I bring up systemic issues, I've never phrased it as though one party is responsible.  I see it historically as more black vs. white, and then after that comes battles of R/D, religions, ancestories, etc. .    I would guess most things we could throw out there and I did - war on drugs, for profit prisons, redlining, denying loans, etc.. that happened in the last century both parties participated in.  I'd love to see either pockets of Dem or Rep controlled places that were some haven for black people - because first and foremost it's about $ and power.   I'd probably (surprising to you, it seems) also agree with you on Dem policies that made things worse, especially recently, or where they failed to act in the interest of the black community.  

Just like I think the right is stupid when they run from the idea that guns made people more deadly when used vs. other weapons, I also think they are stupid when they run for the hills when these systemic issues are brought up.  I have 0 clue how people can deny that those things happened or that they would have a big impact on the black community.  Instead they go the opposite route and look like uneducated tools - there is no such thing as systemic racism (we never used that phrased, but just talked through both agreeing that there were policies in place that had an effect on the community), blocking CRT and mentions of it, on and on. . 

How about just saying yes that stuff happened, how about an honest discussion about some of the policies that might have done that and improve?  Because in the end - those policies and systems happened, and the right is correct that Democrat policies have also contributed.   I get being annoyed when 20year old white libs bring up racism too much or when you come across dipshits online that think it's as bad today as 20 years ago.   Just saying, I've never run into the sentiment IRL that it's only white Rs that did those things.   Hell, even black people did those things to each other - again, it's about $, profit, power at the end of the day.   

Saying there was systemic racism, or that some of those things could still be in place, isn't saying one party is at fault.  It doesn't require you to feel guilty about it.  It doesn't require you do hate whitey.   That is all internet nonsense.  

[BuckSwope 654]

5 hours ago, dogcows said:

The trope of black people supposedly asking for handouts all the time has become so prevalent over the years that black people generally go to the opposite extreme just to avoid the appearance of it.

Here’s one current example of that: GoFundMe.

https://health.wusf.usf.edu/npr-health/npr-health/2023-06-26/were-not-doing-that-a-black-couple-wont-crowdfund-to-pay-medical-debt

The story includes some individual stories as well as relevant statistical data, such as this:

Black women made up less than 1% of people asking for handouts, despite the fact that: “Black Americans are 50% more likely than white Americans to go into debt for medical or dental care.”

The other part of the “handout” narrative is that black people just waste their money anyway. In the below video, black people discuss the perception that they would spend money on “Newports and a Cadillac” (3:30 into the video). I’ll post it as a link since ff today makes YT videos take up way too much space on the page for some reason. Maybe the Blue Pony can take a hint when posting his vids?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGHP0QRydA4

On FBGs Pinky shared some good links and articles about black dads and the tropes around that too.   He shared some stats like black dads were more likely to read to their kids or do things with them than their white counterparts.   A lot of interesting discussion about what contributing factors could lead to the horrible single parent home stat in that community.    Obviously incarceration rate and longer prison terms for similar crimes is a factor.  Compounding that, ex-cons couldn't live at home in some areas, so when they got out of prison they couldn't be at the house, so it's technically a single mother house.  Compounding that, there are financial incentives for single mothers.  Now add in the high rate of gang life and that culture.  Now add in the base level of poverty and undereducation we are talking about.    Of course at no point in this am I absolving people of their choices - like most things, I view the issue as a complicated web to untangle and I shake my head as the party lines just point fingers at each other and don't do anything.  (which if you read my posts, is what I think 100% is the end goal - performative public pissing matches to distract us while the $ and power congregates).  

Do people really think the Prison Industrial Complex gives two craps if Rs or Ds are in power, for example? Big Pharma? Banks? .  Follow the donations - very rarely to corporations donate to just one or the other party, they have their hands in both pockets.  

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,197]

Triple homicide, Newton Massachusetts.  

[jerryskids 6,694]

8 hours ago, dogcows said:

The trope of black people supposedly asking for handouts all the time has become so prevalent over the years that black people generally go to the opposite extreme just to avoid the appearance of it.

Here’s one current example of that: GoFundMe.

https://health.wusf.usf.edu/npr-health/npr-health/2023-06-26/were-not-doing-that-a-black-couple-wont-crowdfund-to-pay-medical-debt

The story includes some individual stories as well as relevant statistical data, such as this:

Black women made up less than 1% of people asking for handouts, despite the fact that: “Black Americans are 50% more likely than white Americans to go into debt for medical or dental care.”

The other part of the “handout” narrative is that black people just waste their money anyway. In the below video, black people discuss the perception that they would spend money on “Newports and a Cadillac” (3:30 into the video). I’ll post it as a link since ff today makes YT videos take up way too much space on the page for some reason. Maybe the Blue Pony can take a hint when posting his vids?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGHP0QRydA4

Trope, eh?  I'm speaking about the inner city black culture and you provide an example of a rich, mostly white Chicago suburb that has a handful of black people getting gentrified out of their properties.  The woman you laud for her "porsche and Newports" comment starts the video saying she is waiting for her 40 acres and a mule.  Not a handout?  Then just before your comment, she says that if you give her something, you can't tell her how to use it.  I can't?  The hell I can't.  How about you be grateful you got something and use it for its intended purpose.

The white businessman who said the quiet part out loud was very relevant.  This is what upsets me, similar to the question of genetics:  we just flat out can NOT discuss it, for fear of being a pariah.

They did manage to get in the trope about all white people being racist, in their emails to the coordinator of the program.  Because, you know, we're all racist and send such emails.

That being said, the idea of the program -- small, targeted funds towards property for people who can't keep up with rising property costs -- seems like it is set up for success.  Hopefully people won't use that success as a justification to give, say, $12M per person no strings attached in LA.  What could go wrong?

Regarding your GoFundMe, maybe Joe Biden was right?

Quote

At a Town Hall in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on Feb. 17, 2021 while speaking about addressing lower vaccine uptake among Black and Hispanic communities, Biden said, “The other part — portion is, a lot of people don’t know how to register. Not everybody in the community — in the Hispanic and the African American community, particularly in rural areas that are distant and/or inner-city districts — know how to use — know how to get online to determine how to get in line for that COVID vaccination at the Walgreens or at the particular store. So we’re also — I’ve committed to spend a billion dollars on public education to help people figure out how they can get in there.” This can be seen in a White House transcript here and in a video of the event here .

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-biden-tweet-minorities-idUSL1N2LU1HQ

[listen2me 23 1,841]

2 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Triple homicide, Newton Massachusetts.  

Thats a sad story.  Just about to celebrate a 50th anniversary.   Their 97 year old mother also murdered.

Mass murder with a knife.  Wonder how much MSM will disect this one?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,197]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

Thats a sad story.  Just about to celebrate a 50th anniversary.   Their 97 year old mother also murdered.

Mass murder with a knife.  Wonder how much MSM will disect this one?

CNN actually reported on it. Kind of. They left some information out.  

[BuckSwope 654]

@jerryskids - I thought of you and this conversation this am while i was listening to some old Malcolm Gladwell podcasts this am.  Revisionist History had a great episode in S1 titled Carlos Doesn't Remember that was talking about some of these types of situations, schools, and if our perception of upward mobility is reality.    It had some interesting things to chew on about how few talented kids get identified, a sad stat that by 8th grade something like 80% of the boys were already gang affiliated so we aren't getting to them quick enough, things like that -system.  BUT buried right there in the middle was also a bit about how Carlos' mom wouldn't let him go to a good boarding school because he needed to stay closer to home for her and his sister - choices.    Of course, right after that he and his sister get put in foster care...   

Things like this are going through my mind when I read people just telling others to study, get out of their situation, etc.   The whole "I did it, why can't you" mentality misses for me because of it.   Yes, there are still choices they can and have to make, but that is infinitely harder than anything most of us had to tried to work through for a variety of reasons.   A lot easier of a task when you have decent safe schools, parents in the picture, on and on.