Can anyone say how the whole "January 6 thing" was worse than the 2020 riots?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

12 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I didn't say there was an issue with talking about it.  All I'm saying is that they don't need to be compared to each other.  It's not a competition.  You can do ahead and make it something it's not though.  Enjoy.

I think it’s a comparison. You think it’s a competition. One of us is right. Me. 

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

I think it’s a comparison. You think it’s a competition. One of us is right. Me. 

You literally just proved you think it's a competition.  Well done.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

You literally just proved you think it's a competition.  Well done.

Telling you you’re wrong, again, is competitive? 

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why do the two even need to be compared?  Two completely different events and both an embarrassment to our country.

That's something you should ask our political leaders and media, because they seem to think it's vastly important.

[zsasz 361]

Jan 6th were a Federal incident that involved an attempt to disrupt or stop the process of electing a new President. All of those guys who entered the Capitol Building should be swinging from scaffolds on the Capitol steps.

The Summer Riots were localized incidents.  If it happened in my state/city...I'd be perfectly fine to see those guys who incited violence and destroyed property swinging from the scaffolds of their various state Capitol building steps. It didn't.  So I'm not going to be one to tell Chicago or Portland or Millwaukee what to do.    I do think that if there were any Federal buildings attacked during this time...the Federal government should be using resources to pick these people up and punish them.

In both instances, there were people at these events who DIDN't engage in violence/terror/attempts to subjugate democracy.  Nothing should happen to those people as I feel they were exercising their Rights. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

2 minutes ago, zsasz said:

Jan 6th were a Federal incident that involved an attempt to disrupt or stop the process of electing a new President. All of those guys who entered the Capitol Building should be swinging from scaffolds on the Capitol steps.

The Summer Riots were localized incidents.  If it happened in my state/city...I'd be perfectly fine to see those guys who incited violence and destroyed property swinging from the scaffolds of their various state Capitol building steps. It didn't.  So I'm not going to be one to tell Chicago or Portland or Millwaukee what to do.    I do think that if there were any Federal buildings attacked during this time...the Federal government should be using resources to pick these people up and punish them.

In both instances, there were people at these events who DIDN't engage in violence/terror/attempts to subjugate democracy.  Nothing should happen to those people as I feel they were exercising their Rights. 

“If” there were any federal buildings attacked.  If. This guy pays attention. 

[The Real timschochet 6,421]

Thank you guys for your responses to my question. I fear we are never going to agree on this topic. 

The denial by conservatives of systemic police mistreatment of black people is, IMO, the main reason why 80-90% of Blacks vote Democrat in every election. Most black people are not liberal; they tend to be socially conservative. They are also very strongly opposed to the more leftist, pro-socialist elements of the Democratic Party. There is no reason why a sizable portion of them shouldn’t vote Republican except for the fact that you guys deny a fundamental aspect of their lives. 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

there is no freedom of the press is why.

[RLLD 4,143]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Thank you guys for your responses to my question. I fear we are never going to agree on this topic. 

The denial by conservatives of systemic police mistreatment of black people is, IMO, the main reason why 80-90% of Blacks vote Democrat in every election. Most black people are not liberal; they tend to be socially conservative. They are also very strongly opposed to the more leftist, pro-socialist elements of the Democratic Party. There is no reason why a sizable portion of them shouldn’t vote Republican except for the fact that you guys deny a fundamental aspect of their lives. 

Democrats lie, and they lie rather well.  They lie to AA's and feed on the fear that the police are somehow more mean to them, statistics show this is false....but it resonates for AA's. So the Democrats feed and foment their fear and mistrust, making their lives worse in the process. But so what.....so long as Democrats secure power.  And when they get that power, what then? The implement policies that are pointedly harmful to AA's... its just laughable. So they buy AA votes through fear and hand outs.....then make their lives worse....sell that its the others guys fault....lather rinse repeat....all the while, their lives get worse and worse at the hands of the Democrats they vote into office....

The police do not have a problem, criminals have a problem, the police fix that problem....

 

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

That's something you should ask our political leaders and media, because they seem to think it's vastly important.

Our political leaders and media are morons.  They all have their own agenda.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

6 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Democrats lie, and they lie rather well.  They lie to AA's and feed on the fear that the police are somehow more mean to them, statistics show this is false....but it resonates for AA's. So the Democrats feed and foment their fear and mistrust, making their lives worse in the process. But so what.....so long as Democrats secure power.  And when they get that power, what then? The implement policies that are pointedly harmful to AA's... its just laughable. So they buy AA votes through fear and hand outs.....then make their lives worse....sell that its the others guys fault....lather rinse repeat....all the while, their lives get worse and worse at the hands of the Democrats they vote into office....

The police do not have a problem, criminals have a problem, the police fix that problem....

 

Can you share these statistics?

Also it's pretty naïve and perhaps a touch racist of you to think that blacks are just listening to what democrats tell them vs their own life experiences.

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

You literally just proved you think it's a competition.  Well done.

Because Jan. 6 makes the far right look bad, they're using the summer 2020 riots to whitewash and mininize the incident that makes them look bad. They focus on video of people walking around and taking selfies and ignore the violent clashes with police, bashing in Capitol windows to gain access and chants of hanging the vice president, who didn't do what their beloved T-pump told him to do.

[RLLD 4,143]

3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Can you share these statistics?

Also it's pretty naïve and perhaps a touch racist of you to think that blacks are just listening to what democrats tell them vs their own life experiences.

Of course. Any critical analysis or pushback is called racist, I know this and I understand that is the immediate defensive tactic.....

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

6 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Can you share these statistics?

Also it's pretty naïve and perhaps a touch racist of you to think that blacks are just listening to what democrats tell them vs their own life experiences.

So the experience of black people entails being killed by police? Now I know you don’t know any black people. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Of course. Any critical analysis or pushback is called racist, I know this and I understand that is the immediate defensive tactic.....

 

Alright so I just wasted 8 min of my life watching your dumb video hoping it would answer my question but it never did.  The video talked about police officer deaths.

So I'll ask again, can you provide the statistics that show police do not treat blacks any different than they treat whites?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

Alright so I just wasted 8 min of my life watching your dumb video hoping it would answer my question but it never did.  The video talked about police officer deaths.

So I'll ask again, can you provide the statistics that show police do not treat blacks any different than they treat whites?

Gutterdope still thinks all cops are white Christian conservatives. He never leaves the house 

[MDC 7,130]

I think looting, rioting and property damage is wrong and counterproductive regardless of who is doing it and for what reason. Round them all up and throw the book at them. I also think the vast majority of BLM and Jan. 6 protestors were peaceful and unfairly get lumped in with the ones who were violent.

Only difference I see is that no Geeks defend rioting and looting but several Geeks keep defending Jan. 6.

[jerryskids 6,567]

10 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

No. 
 

Black Lives Matter is about a whole lot more than that specific point. It’s about the overall treatment of African-Americans in our society by the police and the justice system. It’s about white privilege. It’s about how angry conservatives like @jonmx whine and scream in blind denial every time this issue is raised. 

But to your specific point, there are enough instances of blacks people being unlawfully murdered by police to make it a systemic problem of bigotry. And that’s true whether you accept it or not. 

 

15 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Can you share these statistics?

Also it's pretty naïve and perhaps a touch racist of you to think that blacks are just listening to what democrats tell them vs their own life experiences.

I posted this recently but here goes again:

Quote

Such self defense may be understandable if the police were engaging in an epidemic of shooting unarmed Black men and women, as we now hear daily — but there is no such epidemic. For the last five years, the police have fatally shot about 1,000 civilians annually, the vast majority of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. Black people account for about 23% of those shot and killed by police; they are about 13% of the U.S. population.

As of the June 22 update, the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings showed 14 unarmed Black victims and 25 unarmed white victims in 2019. The database does not include those killed by other means, like George Floyd.

The number of unarmed Black shooting victims is down 63% from 2015, when the database began. There are about 7,300 Black homicide victims a year. The 14 unarmed victims in fatal police shootings would comprise only 0.2% of that total.

Ideally, officers would never take anyone’s life in the course of their duties. But given the number of arrests they make each year (around 10 million) and the number of deadly-weapons attacks on officers (an average of 27 per day in just two-thirds of the nation’s police departments, according to a 2014 analysis), it is not clear that these 1,000 civilian shooting deaths suggest that law enforcement is out of control.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/07/03/police-black-killings-homicide-rates-race-injustice-column/3235072001/

In 2019 there were 14 unarmed Black victims of fatal police shootings from a total of 10 million arrests (across all races).  This is not a systemic problem.

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

Alright so I just wasted 8 min of my life watching your dumb video hoping it would answer my question but it never did.  The video talked about police officer deaths.

So I'll ask again, can you provide the statistics that show police do not treat blacks any different than they treat whites?

I just did, you want to pretend it does not fill that question, and I get that. This professor is illuminating the lie, and how it works.

Now, what you will then do is say well....its does not speak to how they are treated, since this does not feed your bias. And I get that. But it does show that this notion of disproportionate treatment based on race is a lie.

What IS happening.....is that individuals are making choices, and those choices are resulting in negative outcomes. Then the question is...why is this behavior arising within the AA community in a slightly disproportionate manner, and the answer is also simple....culture.....and then recidivism.  Until we fix this at the child level, and end the cyclical destruction through poisonous cultural dogma....we wont simply see lack of progress, it will get worse...and in fact we already see this.

So....where does that leave us..... out of the thousands and thousand of daily interactions....there will arise some negative outcomes. Mostly from dogsh!t people behaving badly, and every once in a while a bad cop or one that makes a mistake.  Then the media will splash it everywhere to get their ratings....the politicians will bemoan it to solidify their votes....and the hucksters will foment rage to secure their place in the societal order...... NONE OF THEM EVER DOING A THING about it...because.....there is actually nothing to be done.

 

[zsasz 361]

2 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

“If” there were any federal buildings attacked.  If. This guy pays attention. 

Then I guess the onus of the inaction in regards to this falls upon the whomever was directing the Federal Government in the summer of 2020. Maybe the Republican led Executive Branch made in a political issue by not pushing for these people to be arrested, tried and sentenced.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

4 minutes ago, zsasz said:

Then I guess the onus of the inaction in regards to this falls upon the whomever was directing the Federal Government in the summer of 2020. Maybe the Republican led Executive Branch made in a political issue by not pushing for these people to be arrested, tried and sentenced.

Maybe they did. And they shouldn’t have. 

[The Real timschochet 6,421]

35 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Democrats lie, and they lie rather well.  They lie to AA's and feed on the fear that the police are somehow more mean to them, statistics show this is false....but it resonates for AA's. So the Democrats feed and foment their fear and mistrust, making their lives worse in the process. But so what.....so long as Democrats secure power.  And when they get that power, what then? The implement policies that are pointedly harmful to AA's... its just laughable. So they buy AA votes through fear and hand outs.....then make their lives worse....sell that its the others guys fault....lather rinse repeat....all the while, their lives get worse and worse at the hands of the Democrats they vote into office....

The police do not have a problem, criminals have a problem, the police fix that problem....

 

I have three large issues with this response. The first we’ve already discussed: I disagree with your fundamental position. And second, I would say that black people don’t need to be lied to about police mistreatment- they witness it. And this constant argument that Democrats, and/or the news media, are able to manipulate black people to believe things that aren’t happening is rather insulting to black people. And patronizing. 
 

My third issue with you is that you believe that Democrats deliberately lie about these issues. We don’t. We raise them because we truly believe in them. There is no ulterior motive, no secret plot. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

10 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

I posted this recently but here goes again:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/07/03/police-black-killings-homicide-rates-race-injustice-column/3235072001/

In 2019 there were 14 unarmed Black victims of fatal police shootings from a total of 10 million arrests (across all races).  This is not a systemic problem.

I get it as it relates to cops murdering blacks, but there is a large gap between harassment and murder.  Cops treat blacks different than whites, unfairly.  Cops are "more mean" to blacks than whites, based on feedback from black people themselves.  RLLD said there are stats that refute this, but can't back it up.  Do you have anything?  RLLD also says it's not true, it's just democrats going around telling black people that cops treat them differently, which is just absurd, and of course has nothing to back up such a ridiculous statement.

Here are some actual poll results that back up what I'm saying. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/06/03/10-things-we-know-about-race-and-policing-in-the-u-s/

I don't believe there are any stats out there that show that cops are more mean to blacks than whites, or that it's false, which is why I asked.  There probably are stats that show that blacks are more likely to get pulled over, or more likely to be searched, or stopped, or questioned, etc.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

14 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I just did, you want to pretend it does not fill that question, and I get that. This professor is illuminating the lie, and how it works.

Just so we're clear, I asked you for statistics that show that cops are not "more mean" to blacks than whites, because you said these stats exist.  You posted a video of a penn state lecture that talks about how many cops are killed in a year.  And now you're telling me that since 144 cops where killed in one year that means that cops are not more mean to blacks than whites.

[listen2me 23 1,825]

12 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said:

The left recognizes that the summer 2020 riots were very bad and condemns them. It makes no excuses for them. It also sees Jan. 6 for the violent, disgraceful insurrection that it was. 

The right catastrophizes the summer 2020 riots to the point at which they claimed entire cities were burned down, which they weren't. They go on to whitewash and minimize Jan. 6, framing it as a peaceful selfie opportunity.

A person with intelligence and common sense can separate the two and not need to make comparisons for idiotic, ignorant purposes.

 

 

4 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

But over time I realized 2 things.  It's just a saying, and even though it's dumb, it should detract from the purpose to highlight how cops mistreat blacks.  And then more importantly, there actually are people that think that black lives don't matter, especially poor uneducated blacks that commit crimes 

Well Libs care about criminals.  They certainly don't care about poor blacks in bad neighborhoods just trying to do their best.  Since they are for letting criminals walk free in these communities keeping them as dangerous as possible for the regulars.  

[RLLD 4,143]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I have three large issues with this response. The first we’ve already discussed: I disagree with your fundamental position. And second, I would say that black people don’t need to be lied to about police mistreatment- they witness it. And this constant argument that Democrats, and/or the news media, are able to manipulate black people to believe things that aren’t happening is rather insulting to black people. And patronizing. 
 

My third issue with you is that you believe that Democrats deliberately lie about these issues. We don’t. We raise them because we truly believe in them. There is no ulterior motive, no secret plot. 

If it were true that Democrats cared I submit that we would see drastically different policies, and this goes back decades. It really is time to stop hurting these people.

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

6 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

 

Well Libs care about criminals.  They certainly don't care about poor blacks in bad neighborhoods just trying to do their best.  Since they are for letting criminals walk free in these communities keeping them as dangerous as possible for the regulars.  

MAGAturds all too often let hyperbole get in the way of facts and reality.

Those with moderate abortion views get labeled baby killers who are for late-term abortions. The largely peaceful BLM movement - for which their are monuments out there - gets labeled a terroist organization because of the opportunistic thugs who likely have never voted in their lives and might not even know who is president. 

They even go as far as projecting the fascist ideology onto the left, because they can't accept that fascism is a far-right ideology.

MAGAturds are trying to redefine, deflect and catastrophize whatever they need to in order to advance their extremist agenda.

[RLLD 4,143]

6 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Just so we're clear, I asked you for statistics that show that cops are not "more mean" to blacks than whites, because you said these stats exist.  You posted a video of a penn state lecture that talks about how many cops are killed in a year.  And now you're telling me that since 144 cops where killed in one year that means that cops are not more mean to blacks than whites.

Correct. It is but one example, and the most important one. Remember, BLM is based on the lie that black lives matter less than other lives.  Well, that video highlights two imporant factors. The first being the consequences of that lie :  those students were astounded to learn those stats, that is because they have been lied to all their life and taught to think that cops were killing black people is largely disproportionate numbers. Imagine how it flavors their perceptions and interactions with the police, it is destructive. The second being that the stats clearly show that there is NOT a lesser value placed on black lives.

So then you have media creating a circus around singular events to get ratings, politicians jumping in to get votes, and then the hucksters flaming it up to get social credit for themselves within that community.  These parasites foment fear for their own advantage. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Correct. It is but one example, and the most important one. Remember, BLM is based on the lie that black lives matter less than other lives.  Well, that video highlights two imporant factors. The first being the consequences of that lie :  those students were astounded to learn those stats, that is because they have been lied to all their life and taught to think that cops were killing black people is largely disproportionate numbers. Imagine how it flavors their perceptions and interactions with the police, it is destructive. The second being that the stats clearly show that there is NOT a lesser value placed on black lives.

So then you have media creating a circus around singular events to get ratings, politicians jumping in to get votes, and then the hucksters flaming it up to get social credit for themselves within that community.  These parasites foment fear for their own advantage. 

OK now I'm convinced you didn't even watch your video, because what you're describing is NOT in the video.

[RLLD 4,143]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

OK now I'm convinced you didn't even watch your video, because what you're describing is NOT in the video.

It absolutely is in there. You cannot simply read only the literal. You have to be able to analyze what is happening.  What is the cost of a lie? That is an absolutely integral part of this. 

We have to stop lying and pretending the police are the problem, as has been demonstrated by this poisonous dogma, it only actually hurts the good people.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

Just now, RLLD said:

It absolutely is in there.

Give me the timestamp where they talk about black people being killed by cops.

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

6 minutes ago, RLLD said:

 Remember, BLM is based on the lie that black lives matter less than other lives. 

That's your interpretation of it. BLM's point is to highlight racism, discrimination and racial inequality.

[RLLD 4,143]

2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Give me the timestamp where they talk about black people being killed by cops.

Apologies!  I thought I posted this one...I think you will find what you are seeking here....the other one was debunking another lie, we can leave that for another time....

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

If the police are a continual problem in your life, the police aren’t the problem. 

[RLLD 4,143]

2 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

That's your interpretation of it. BLM's point is to highlight racism, discrimination and racial inequality.

I know that is the claim, today, but those notions are also farcical. I was more impressed with BLM admitted they were Marxists devoted to the destruction of the nuclear family and western society. Original Marxism was not quite on board with that, though it did seek to remove nationality. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Our political leaders and media are morons.  They all have their own agenda.

Agreed.  Sadly, a lot of people put too much faith and interest in them and hence, every topic becomes "important".

[GutterBoy 2,898]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

Apologies!  I thought I posted this one...I think you will find what you are seeking here....the other one was debunking another lie, we can leave that for another time....

 

Well I'm not going to waste 17 mins after you already wasted 8, but I can assume it talks about how many blacks are killed by cops and how the number is less than people think.  That's fine.

I'll go back to your statement that cops treat whites and blacks the same, and you have stats to back that up.  I asked for the stats.  Your video shows they don't murder as many blacks as we thought, but it's still more than whites, as % of population.  Again, that's murder.  Large gap between harassment and murder.

So when black people tell you that they get harassed more than whites, you tell them they are wrong, they're just being told that lie by Democrats.  Am I right?

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

14 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Most conspiracy nuts these days are FOR Trump, not against him. 

Right, Russia Collision was FOR Trump.  LOL

[TheNewGirl 1,347]

16 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

 

Once the protesters crossed that line? Of course 1/6 pales in comparison to the riots over the summer of love in terms of destruction and casualties.  

Tell that to the many businesses that werent' able to rebuild after they were destroyed. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

Right, Russia Collision was FOR Trump.  LOL

He didn't say ALL, he said MOST, and yes MOST conspiracy theories are driven by the Trump alt-right.