War in Israel

[Strike 3,981]

So apparently Biden greenlit this attack on Israel, just said it had to be "within certain limits."   Wow.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-796998

 

[zsasz 199]

I do actually feel kind of bad for the MAGA guys on this forum.  When Biden wins in Nov.  they're seriously going to need medication to get thru 4 more years.  

[The Real timschochet 2,956]

1 minute ago, zsasz said:

Tim teaching a Master Class on the ME.  IF this guy came from that footballguys site; they must have a pretty good political forum.   

Thanks but it’s not really a master class. Any dummy can learn this stuff by reading just a little of the history. But a lot of these guys seem incapable of even the basics. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,530]

1 minute ago, zsasz said:

I do actually feel kind of bad for the MAGA guys on this forum.  When Biden wins in Nov.  they're seriously going to need medication to get thru 4 more years.  

Huh?  this is funny coming from the crowd that is STILL hysterical about Trump winning in 2016! 

GTFO with your revisionist history and gaslighting, you f'n moron.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

I’m just glad that in times like this if anything were to happen to president Biden that Kamala stands at the ready to take over. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,530]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Thanks but it’s not really a master class. Any dummy can learn this stuff by reading just a little of the history. But a lot of these guys seem incapable of even the basics. 

Yeah, it is easy.  Cult members like you guys just get your propaganda from the cult glory hole.  No thinking on your part necessary.

[The Real timschochet 2,956]

4 minutes ago, zsasz said:

I do actually feel kind of bad for the MAGA guys on this forum.  When Biden wins in Nov.  they're seriously going to need medication to get thru 4 more years.  

Their lives will be better off under Biden. This has already been true. Deep down they’ll probably be secretly relieved when he wins again. 

[zsasz 199]

2 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Huh?  this is funny coming from the crowd that is STILL hysterical about Trump winning in 2016! 

GTFO with your revisionist history and gaslighting, you f'n moron.

 

How is it revisionist history if it hasn't happened yet?  

You guys are really going to struggle with 4 more years of Biden. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,530]

11 minutes ago, zsasz said:

Tim teaching a Master Class on the ME.  IF this guy came from that footballguys site; they must have a pretty good political forum.   

JHC. 

How about you just get a room and fellate Tim there in private instead of in a public forum?  The only thing Tim could give a master class on is underpaying w/no insurance the illegal immigrants he uses for his properties to avoid paying taxes.

[zsasz 199]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’m just glad that in times like this if anything were to happen to president Biden that Kamala stands at the ready to take over. 

 

Who's Trumps VP candidate?....Don Jr.?

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,530]

1 minute ago, zsasz said:

How is it revisionist history if it hasn't happened yet?  

You guys are really going to struggle with 4 more years of Biden. 

Nah, I'm good.  That's your revisionist history.  You're still in a state of hysteria over Trump from almost a decade ago and yet here you are, trying to pass that hysteria on to others. 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

Just now, zsasz said:

 

Who's Trumps VP candidate?....Don Jr.?

Who mentioned Trump? Look over there! Not at the cackleing half wit warming up in the bullpen. Sad. 

[Voltaire 4,564]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No it isn’t the same. Huge difference and I already touched on this. The Camp David accords were a huge deal because Egypt had been in 3 major wars with Israel and it was the first time any Arab country was willing to talk peace. Even then, everyone knew there could be no permanent peace without addressing the Palestine issue. Carter tried, and failed. But even so he deserves some real praise as it was a major achievement. 

The Abraham Accords on the other hand were a joke that made things worse. The nations in question were already at peace with Israel and had been for decades. It completely ignored the Palestinians and there were winks and nods for Israel to continue their settlements. It did nothing to achieve a greater peace but Jared did walk away with 2 billion. So there’s that. 

You can't address the Palestinian issue because the Palestinians won't agree to anything short of reclaiming all the lands between the river and the sea. Its a waste of time talking to them. Yitzhak Rabin, Yasser Arafat, and Bill Clinton came as close as we'll ever see at Oslo. It took them 50 years to get there and now, 30 years later, we're as far apart as ever.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,530]

4 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

You can't address the Palestinian issue because the Palestinians won't agree to anything short of reclaiming all the lands between the river and the sea. Its a waste of time talking to them. Yitzhak Rabin, Yasser Arafat, and Bill Clinton came as close as we'll ever see at Oslo. It took them 50 years to get there and now, 30 years later, we're as far apart as ever.

Excellent rebuttal!

i enjoy your posts, Volty! 

[zsasz 199]

7 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Nah, I'm good.  That's your revisionist history.  You're still in a state of hysteria over Trump from almost a decade ago and yet here you are, trying to pass that hysteria on to others. 

 

 

Sure you're good.....you're so good you keep trying to reassure that you're going to be good or deflect onto others.  I get it.  Biden for 4 more years?  You're not going to be happy.  It happens.  Cope harder.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

Just now, zsasz said:

 

Sure you're good.....you're so good you keep trying to reassure that you're going to be good or deflect onto others.  I get it.  Biden for 4 more years?  You're not going to be happy.  It happens.  Cope harder.  

The only saving grace is you’ll have to live through it too. But this time with more Kamala. 

[zsasz 199]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Their lives will be better off under Biden. This has already been true. Deep down they’ll probably be secretly relieved when he wins again. 

 

 

Sure.  Their 401Ks are doing better...their houses are worth more.  

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,530]

1 minute ago, zsasz said:

Sure you're good.....you're so good you keep trying to reassure that you're going to be good or deflect onto others.  I get it.  Biden for 4 more years?  You're not going to be happy.  It happens.  Cope harder.  

It's almost as if you're living in an alternate reality.  You're so intent on trying to take the attention off of your hysteria over Trump that you're willing to say anything no matter how absurdly false.

Pro Tip: If you think Tim is giving a master class on anything, you've already lost.

[Strike 3,981]

24 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not that it has anything to do with this thread but you were wrong anyhow. Biden is tied in those polls and gaining now. Very shortly he will be ahead, probably for the remainder. 
  

Maybe you should focus on your statements in this thread, such as your ridiculous assertion that none of this would have happened under Trump. You’re so backwards on this stuff. 

See, this is the problem I have with you.  I posted a link to FACTS.  What you posted above is contrary to those FACTS.  There is no debate/discussion about FACTS. 

[zsasz 199]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The only saving grace is you’ll have to live through it too. But this time with more Kamala. 

Kamala's fine if she gets pressed into service.  If she dissapoints the electorate will let her know.  If she a decent enough job; she'll get elected for 4 years for the job.

I'd imagine the way the MAGAs have whined about Biden for the past 4 years will be a rain drop in the ocean compared to the anger and whining they'll do about 4/6/8 years of Kamala. 

[zsasz 199]

3 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

It's almost as if you're living in an alternate reality.  You're so intent on trying to take the attention off of your hysteria over Trump that you're willing to say anything no matter how absurdly false.

Pro Tip: If you think Tim is giving a master class on anything, you've already lost.

Once again...keeping showing me how much you care about it.  Keep up the good work.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

4 minutes ago, zsasz said:

Kamala's fine if she gets pressed into service.  If she dissapoints the electorate will let her know.  If she a decent enough job; she'll get elected for 4 years for the job.

I'd imagine the way the MAGAs have whined about Biden for the past 4 years will be a rain drop in the ocean compared to the anger and whining they'll do about 4/6/8 years of Kamala. 

You’re a joke.

[zsasz 199]

28 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not that it has anything to do with this thread but you were wrong anyhow. Biden is tied in those polls and gaining now. Very shortly he will be ahead, probably for the remainder. 
 

Maybe you should focus on your statements in this thread, such as your ridiculous assertion that none of this would have happened under Trump. You’re so backwards on this stuff. 

 

You've come from the FootballGuys site. I did a little research on that place and it looks like they actually had some decent back and forth politically.  This place has been stuck in the mire of MAGA  schmohawks like HT, RLLD and others for so long; they're almost incapable of having a decent back and forth....and those guys are MENSA candidates compared to these guys like Eternal, SeaFoam, OverKill, Reality. 

 

The reality, at least the one that they don't want to see, is that Biden, and things under him, are not as bad as they want (imagine guys like them WANTING this country to be bad)them to be and Trump's legal problems and his rhetoric isn't very attractive to more and more Americans.  Combined; along with the abortion issue AND a lack of an "abortion sized issue" on the Right will get Biden foure more years.  

[Reality 2,710]

8 minutes ago, zsasz said:

 

You've come from the FootballGuys site. I did a little research on that place and it looks like they actually had some decent back and forth politically.  This place has been stuck in the mire of MAGA  schmohawks like HT, RLLD and others for so long; they're almost incapable of having a decent back and forth....and those guys are MENSA candidates compared to these guys like Eternal, SeaFoam, OverKill, Reality. 

 

The reality, at least the one that they don't want to see, is that Biden, and things under him, are not as bad as they want (imagine guys like them WANTING this country to be bad)them to be and Trump's legal problems and his rhetoric isn't very attractive to more and more Americans.  Combined; along with the abortion issue AND a lack of an "abortion sized issue" on the Right will get Biden foure more years.  

Bud, Biden probably won't get 4 more years of Biden.

[Baker Boy 1,485]

Former DNI Ratcliffe exposes Biden's 'long list' of Iran blunders that led to the historic attack

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ratcliffe-exposes-bidens-long-list-iran-blunders-led-historic-attack-emboldened-them
 

 

 

[Baker Boy 1,485]

41 minutes ago, zsasz said:

I do actually feel kind of bad for the MAGA guys on this forum.  When Biden wins in Nov.  they're seriously going to need medication to get thru 4 more years.  

The entire country will need medication to make it through the next four years. Yes, even the useful idiots.

[jerryskids 5,212]

56 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No it isn’t the same. Huge difference and I already touched on this. The Camp David accords were a huge deal because Egypt had been in 3 major wars with Israel and it was the first time any Arab country was willing to talk peace. Even then, everyone knew there could be no permanent peace without addressing the Palestine issue. Carter tried, and failed. But even so he deserves some real praise as it was a major achievement. 

The Abraham Accords on the other hand were a joke that made things worse. The nations in question were already at peace with Israel and had been for decades. It completely ignored the Palestinians and there were winks and nods for Israel to continue their settlements. It did nothing to achieve a greater peace but Jared did walk away with 2 billion. So there’s that. 

 

47 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Thanks but it’s not really a master class. Any dummy can learn this stuff by reading just a little of the history. But a lot of these guys seem incapable of even the basics. 

So, where do I learn about how the Palestinians, and in particular Hamas, have wanted a 2-state solution for some time, and had Trump invited them to the Abraham Accords, they'd peacefully co-exist.  But since they weren't invited, they decided to rape and burn women and children instead.

Can you provide me the source?  I'd love to better educate myself.   

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,530]

35 minutes ago, zsasz said:

You've come from the FootballGuys site. I did a little research on that place and it looks like they actually had some decent back and forth politically.  This place has been stuck in the mire of MAGA  schmohawks like HT, RLLD and others for so long; they're almost incapable of having a decent back and forth....and those guys are MENSA candidates compared to these guys like Eternal, SeaFoam, OverKill, Reality. 

 

The reality, at least the one that they don't want to see, is that Biden, and things under him, are not as bad as they want (imagine guys like them WANTING this country to be bad)them to be and Trump's legal problems and his rhetoric isn't very attractive to more and more Americans.  Combined; along with the abortion issue AND a lack of an "abortion sized issue" on the Right will get Biden foure more years.  

JHC, get a room already. 

You're about as dumb as they come.   Tim, squiz, dozer - those guys were the reason that forum got shut down! 

[Mark Davis 172]

13 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Reasonable response but there are lots of reasons to hold Trump responsible. Reversing the Iran agreement, sucking up to Netanyahu, moving the embassy, the Abraham Accords which ignored the Palestinians.. these mistakes all helped lead to the crisis we face now. 

I know you follow this part of the world and are knowledgeable about the cross currents, but take the embassy move as one example.  I'm not sure how people are extrapolating that move toward this current situation unless it's purely political and is essentially like wearing blinders towards an anti Trump bias.  That move didn't establish Hamas, make Iran a bad actor, etc.  Those things already were in place. I don't feel that had anything to do with what is going on now.  If the embassy were still in Tel Aviv, would Hamas have not attacked Israel?  I find it hard to believe that would have changed in any way at all.

In specificity to the Iran situation, In my eyes we emboldened Iran by releasing funds to them.  I think time is showing that when we ease sanctions, release funds, react in a more passive faction to their bad acts, they are proving to seeing that as an opening to take further and more aggressive actions.  I actually agree with you that Iran largely telegraphed this attack so that it could be intercepted.  They can look strong to their public and the Arab street while trying to create hesitancy in the West to respond because of the lack of large scale fatalities and damage in Israel.  But it does seem probing to me and they are wanting to see how the West and opinions in the West will respond to this attack.  I would ask, when in our lives would we have ever had a significant faction of our country say Israel should stand down if their homeland was attacked in such a way, whether intercepted or not?  We already have a significant portion of the West and sentiment in the West that are sympathetic to some of Hamas' wishes, if not Hamas themselves.  By that I mean they are focusing on a cease fire rather than the return of the hostages.  Now the ball has been moved under another shell and now we have the question of how far should Israel go in response to Iran, all the while the hostages are still held by Hamas.

[wiffleball 4,647]

Apparently, the Israelis who smeared blood on their front door were spared from any kind of attack.

[The Real timschochet 2,956]

26 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

I know you follow this part of the world and are knowledgeable about the cross currents, but take the embassy move as one example.  I'm not sure how people are extrapolating that move toward this current situation unless it's purely political and is essentially like wearing blinders towards an anti Trump bias.  That move didn't establish Hamas, make Iran a bad actor, etc.  Those things already were in place. I don't feel that had anything to do with what is going on now.  If the embassy were still in Tel Aviv, would Hamas have not attacked Israel?  I find it hard to believe that would have changed in any way at all.

In specificity to the Iran situation, In my eyes we emboldened Iran by releasing funds to them.  I think time is showing that when we ease sanctions, release funds, react in a more passive faction to their bad acts, they are proving to seeing that as an opening to take further and more aggressive actions.  I actually agree with you that Iran largely telegraphed this attack so that it could be intercepted.  They can look strong to their public and the Arab street while trying to create hesitancy in the West to respond because of the lack of large scale fatalities and damage in Israel.  But it does seem probing to me and they are wanting to see how the West and opinions in the West will respond to this attack.  I would ask, when in our lives would we have ever had a significant faction of our country say Israel should stand down if their homeland was attacked in such a way, whether intercepted or not?  We already have a significant portion of the West and sentiment in the West that are sympathetic to some of Hamas' wishes, if not Hamas themselves.  By that I mean they are focusing on a cease fire rather than the return of the hostages.  Now the ball has been moved under another shell and now we have the question of how far should Israel go in response to Iran, all the while the hostages are still held by Hamas.

There is a struggle within the Palestinian community that has been going on since the birth of Israel and even before. Essentially it is between those who believe they can eventually live side by side with Israel and those who want nothing less than the utter destruction of Israel. The latter group, fanatical in word and deed, has always appeared to the world as dominant. Many like @jerryskids would have us believe that they are the ONLY Palestinians, that the first group I mentioned don’t really exist, a myth. This is convenient because if your enemy is truly evil, murderous, extreme, it justifies all actions on your side to deal with them. Thus, everything the current Israeli government does is OK, no matter how awful-why not? The Palestinians are all evil bastards committed to their destruction. (it’s an argument that is also dehumanizing, allowing one to be less empathetic when children suffer or die.) We have seen that in this thread. 

But it’s a false narrative. The first group of Palestinians, those who want to co-exist with Israel, have always been there, and always been significant, they have never been dominant for a number of reasons which would take too long to get into here. But the key to Israel’s ultimate survival and security is for this side to eventually win out. No country can survive in which the majority of the population is hostile to the ruling minority. Unless we achieve a 2 state solution, Israel as a nation is ultimately doomed. Thus, for Israel’s survival, the reasonable, moderate Palestinian minority has to become a majority. 

Forgive my lengthy digression here but I can’t address your question without it. By moving the embassy we strengthened the radical Palestinian majority and weakened the moderate Palestinian minority. Thats the gist of it. It was a huge move in the wrong direction. You’re correct that it didn’t create Hamas but it strengthened them. Hamas, like any political movement, becomes more powerful the more the population subscribes to their ideas. This is the same reason they cannot be destroyed by Israel’s current military actions, any more than we were able to destroy the Taliban. M You can wipe out their military strength, but like a hydra they will always come back because the population is behind them. 
 

[jerryskids 5,212]

23 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

There is a struggle within the Palestinian community that has been going on since the birth of Israel and even before. Essentially it is between those who believe they can eventually live side by side with Israel and those who want nothing less than the utter destruction of Israel. The latter group, fanatical in word and deed, has always appeared to the world as dominant. Many like @jerryskids would have us believe that they are the ONLY Palestinians, that the first group I mentioned don’t really exist, a myth. This is convenient because if your enemy is truly evil, murderous, extreme, it justifies all actions on your side to deal with them. Thus, everything the current Israeli government does is OK, no matter how awful-why not? The Palestinians are all evil bastards committed to their destruction. (it’s an argument that is also dehumanizing, allowing one to be less empathetic when children suffer or die.) We have seen that in this thread. 

But it’s a false narrative. The first group of Palestinians, those who want to co-exist with Israel, have always been there, and always been significant, they have never been dominant for a number of reasons which would take too long to get into here. But the key to Israel’s ultimate survival and security is for this side to eventually win out. No country can survive in which the majority of the population is hostile to the ruling minority. Unless we achieve a 2 state solution, Israel as a nation is ultimately doomed. Thus, for Israel’s survival, the reasonable, moderate Palestinian minority has to become a majority. 

Forgive my lengthy digression here but I can’t address your question without it. By moving the embassy we strengthened the radical Palestinian majority and weakened the moderate Palestinian minority. Thats the gist of it. It was a huge move in the wrong direction. You’re correct that it didn’t create Hamas but it strengthened them. Hamas, like any political movement, becomes more powerful the more the population subscribes to their ideas. This is the same reason they cannot be destroyed by Israel’s current military actions, any more than we were able to destroy the Taliban. M You can wipe out their military strength, but like a hydra they will always come back because the population is behind them. 
 

The fact is that 30 years ago, when faced with the ability to govern themselves, the Palestinian people overwhelming elected Hamas and their platform of the destruction of Israel, leading eventually to the death of all Jews.  All polls indicate that that strong support continues to this day.

The Palestinian people are primarily comprised of warring tribes bent on death and destruction.  As such, no other Arab country will let them in, and hasn't for going on 80 years.  These countries instead view the Palestinians as useful idiots to be a thorn in the side of Israel.

This doesn't fit your worldview, so instead of recognizing these realities, you prefer to think there is a large group of peace-loving Palestinians, perhaps because you know a nice Palestinian guy in LA?  Whatever, I'm sorry to tell you, but it is not true.

[NEWPOSTERGUY! 267]

46 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

There is a struggle within the Palestinian community that has been going on since the birth of Israel and even before. Essentially it is between those who believe they can eventually live side by side with Israel and those who want nothing less than the utter destruction of Israel. The latter group, fanatical in word and deed, has always appeared to the world as dominant. Many like @jerryskids would have us believe that they are the ONLY Palestinians, that the first group I mentioned don’t really exist, a myth. This is convenient because if your enemy is truly evil, murderous, extreme, it justifies all actions on your side to deal with them. Thus, everything the current Israeli government does is OK, no matter how awful-why not? The Palestinians are all evil bastards committed to their destruction. (it’s an argument that is also dehumanizing, allowing one to be less empathetic when children suffer or die.) We have seen that in this thread. 

But it’s a false narrative. The first group of Palestinians, those who want to co-exist with Israel, have always been there, and always been significant, they have never been dominant for a number of reasons which would take too long to get into here. But the key to Israel’s ultimate survival and security is for this side to eventually win out. No country can survive in which the majority of the population is hostile to the ruling minority. Unless we achieve a 2 state solution, Israel as a nation is ultimately doomed. Thus, for Israel’s survival, the reasonable, moderate Palestinian minority has to become a majority. 

Forgive my lengthy digression here but I can’t address your question without it. By moving the embassy we strengthened the radical Palestinian majority and weakened the moderate Palestinian minority. Thats the gist of it. It was a huge move in the wrong direction. You’re correct that it didn’t create Hamas but it strengthened them. Hamas, like any political movement, becomes more powerful the more the population subscribes to their ideas. This is the same reason they cannot be destroyed by Israel’s current military actions, any more than we were able to destroy the Taliban. M You can wipe out their military strength, but like a hydra they will always come back because the population is behind them. 
 

You just may be the stupidest mutha effin' cuck on the face of this earth. 

dafuq is wrong with you? 

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,530]

6 minutes ago, NEWPOSTERGUY! said:

You just may be the stupidest mutha effin' cuck on the face of this earth. 

dafuq is wrong with you? 

And he's jewish to boot.  A jew who hates Israel and defends Palestine. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

6 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

And he's jewish to boot.  A jew who hates Israel and defends Palestine. 

He’s a self hating liberal first and foremost. 

[The Real timschochet 2,956]

1 hour ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

And he's jewish to boot.  A jew who hates Israel and defends Palestine. 

Lol I don’t hate Israel. Big supporter. 
There are many Jews in Israel, and many here, who share my votes on this subject. One of the most notable is Peter Beinart of The Atlantic. Here’s a recent piece by him discussing this topic: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/22/opinion/israel-american-jews-zionism.html

[The Real timschochet 2,956]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

The fact is that 30 years ago, when faced with the ability to govern themselves, the Palestinian people overwhelming elected Hamas and their platform of the destruction of Israel, leading eventually to the death of all Jews.  All polls indicate that that strong support continues to this day.

The Palestinian people are primarily comprised of warring tribes bent on death and destruction.  As such, no other Arab country will let them in, and hasn't for going on 80 years.  These countries instead view the Palestinians as useful idiots to be a thorn in the side of Israel.

This doesn't fit your worldview, so instead of recognizing these realities, you prefer to think there is a large group of peace-loving Palestinians, perhaps because you know a nice Palestinian guy in LA?  Whatever, I'm sorry to tell you, but it is not true.

The Palestinians of Gaza elected Hamas. Not the Palestinians of the West Bank, which is a larger population. And there are many reasons why Hamas won that election that have nothing to do with policy towards Israel. 

[Gepetto 988]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Lol I don’t hate Israel. Big supporter. 
There are many Jews in Israel, and many here, who share my votes on this subject. One of the most notable is Peter Beinart of The Atlantic. Here’s a recent piece by him discussing this topic: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/22/opinion/israel-american-jews-zionism.html

This is a pay site we can't read.

[The Real timschochet 2,956]

3 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

This is a pay site we can't read.

Sorry. We’ll look him up then if you’re interested, 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

6 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

This is a pay site we can't read.

I doubt Tim read it. They rarely do.