University presidents won’t condemn antisemitism

[Stryker Ryker 188]

5 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

What’re you going on about? I think pretty much everyone here agrees the university presidents’ answers were stupid and that the one lady got fired over it

Damn. Goofy over here really just exposed himself willingly  

[RLLD 4,200]

32 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I've always objected, so that's not new for me either.  

I would guess no to the last part.  Just going to see more and more of this it seems.  

And you are not alone, there are a few voices who seem to at least now understand what is wrong and right. 

Then again, it could simply be that we have a series here where those on the left find benefit in holding a moral position, so we can enjoy sharing a moral position....for as long as its politically expedient for them....that happens as well, unfortunately.

[Voltaire 5,281]

On 12/11/2023 at 7:37 AM, BuckSwope said:

  For the right:  if it's JUST about sexuality in materials, why is it that when I look at the list of books being pulled and flagged is it 90% LGBTQ materials?   We can't deny there is a reason people wonder if you are anti-lgbtq if it is so one sided. 

Find me a hetero book that involves teen sex and reads like Not all Boys are Blue or Gender Queer (if you can) and I'll find you a book that already isn't in any school library anywhere, although Roman Polanski and R. Kelly might have a personal copy.

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

6 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Find me a hetero book that involves teen sex and reads like Not all Boys are Blue or Gender Queer (if you can) and I'll find you a book that already isn't in any school library anywhere, although Roman Polanski and R. Kelly might have a personal copy.

Lots of qualifiers there....but there are a lot of books in school libraries that are hetero sex discussed in a very forthright and passionate way:

 

The DUFF

Vampire Academy series

Perfect Chemistry series

Twilight saga

Forbidden

Going Too Far

 

 

that's just to get you started

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

Don't agree with what the Harvard president said (or really any of them)...but isn't Harvard a private institution? Aren't they allowed to oversee themselves without government involvement?

[Mark Davis 389]

7 hours ago, jerryskids said:

This mass murder thing is kinda funny though.

The Left:  Sure, Trump didn't actually call for the Capitol to be attacked, but he wanted people to do it, we just know it.

Also The Left:  Sure, people are calling for a violent uprising (intifada) to overtake all of Israel (from the river to the sea), but that doesn't mean they want to kill the Jews, they just want to peacefully relo them after they violently push through the entire country.   

Then you have Charlottesville and it's played as an existential threat to the homeland.  I've seen way more violence in just a handful of clips, a ton of property damage, all way more than occurred in Charlottesville.  It's only acceptable apparently if you are violent or preach violence and hatred toward certain races.  All can be wrong, but I think the ones that are pervasive and happening repeatedly in multiple locations with many more participants are a bigger concern.

[jerryskids 6,734]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Don't agree with what the Harvard president said (or really any of them)...but isn't Harvard a private institution? Aren't they allowed to oversee themselves without government involvement?

Harvard receives the 10th most federal funding, according to this link.  

Quote

n 2021, Harvard University’s federal funding increased to $625 million. This figure could have been even higher. But, the college’s leadership decided to decline coronavirus stimulus funding later in the year. Instead, the college decided to use its endowment as a funding source in later instances in 2020. An example of the kind of funding Harvard University received in 2021 is a $2.8 million award from the National Science Foundation to help minority youth pursue STEM careers. USA Facts highlights that, in 2018, Harvard University gained the most significant federal grants of any US college. In 2017, the college had the ninth-highest research and development funding. 247 Wall Street notes that in 2015, Harvard University gained the 14^th highest funding of any college.

https://www.collegevaluesonline.com/colleges-benefiting-from-government-spending/#:~:text=In 2021%2C Harvard University's federal funding increased to %24625 million.

[Mark Davis 389]

10 hours ago, MDC said:

Harvard University is known for the low quality of its students.  

Until a few days ago I'd have 100% agreed with the sarcasm.  Now, I wouldn't hire one to wash my car.  I'm far from the only one and it's a shame because I know there are bright students there who don't agree with what is occurring.  But it appears there's at least enough to create a critical mass that this kind of hatred, intimidation, and violence is acceptable.

[Voltaire 5,281]

On 12/11/2023 at 12:19 PM, The Real timschochet said:

Where are you getting your information? I’m almost scared to ask. No doubt it’s some crazy Nazi forum like Stormfront right? Anyhow, the mohel uses a special knife, not their teeth. 

They use their mohelers.

Sorry, Sorry. Couldn't help myself, I'll leave the discussion now

[MDC 7,297]

4 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

Until a few days ago I'd have 100% agreed with the sarcasm.  Now, I wouldn't hire one to wash my car.  I'm far from the only one and it's a shame because I know there are bright students there who don't agree with what is occurring.  But it appears there's at least enough to create a critical mass that this kind of hatred, intimidation, and violence is acceptable.

Boycott Harvard!

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

Well then they are even dumber than I imagined...Also looks like Tim Scott has had a hardon for their funding for a while- even stupider by them then

[Voltaire 5,281]

38 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Lots of qualifiers there....but there are a lot of books in school libraries that are hetero sex discussed in a very forthright and passionate way:

 

The DUFF

Vampire Academy series

Perfect Chemistry series

Twilight saga

Forbidden

Going Too Far

 

 

that's just to get you started

You know what, maybe you've succeeded. I'm not familiar with any of them but teen girl romance stuff... if you have any explicit juicy excerpts, I'll have to throw in the towel.

[Mark Davis 389]

33 minutes ago, MDC said:

Boycott Harvard!

On the bright side, you won't have to worry about being impacted.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,038]

8 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

You know what, maybe you've succeeded. I'm not familiar with any of them but teen girl romance stuff... if you have any explicit juicy excerpts, I'll have to throw in the towel.

Let' see some excerpts first.  The LGBTQ stuff is really more akin to porn than it is young adults stuff.  

[BuckSwope 654]

All the gloryhole stuff makes more sense knowing all the research Eternal has done in the lgbtq section.   Take a break and read some Tom Clancy or something once in awhile.   

[Voltaire 5,281]

Does The DUFF have inappropriate scenes?

 

Sex, Romance & Nudity. Sex-related themes permeate the movie. Crude jokes/references right off the bat include talk about what boys would like to do to girls ("banging," etc.). Teen couples also kiss/make out, sometimes passionately, and imagine/allude to having sex, but no graphic nudity.

-------

I've found actual excerpts from Vampire Academy... 

https://www.shmoop.com/study-guides/vampire-academy/sex-quotes-4.html

 starting to think theres not nothing near as graphic as what Senator Kennedy was reading in the Senate... the sex scenes aren't so nearly in the steamy detail of the gay porn in libraries. no talk of "lubing up" and "feeling him inside me"... 

 

-----

 

IT also seems that calls were made for these books to be reoved as well even though the sex in them are already less graphic.

[Voltaire 5,281]

 

Senator Kennedy starts quoting the book 46 seconds in. I will make three points

•  nothing in the Vampire Academy books from the link of the steamy scenes contains such graphic detail as Some Boys Aren't Blue. feel free to read/listen to both.
• apparently Duff goes into even less detail
• there are indeed objections to the Vampire Academy books being appropriate for school libraries

[jerryskids 6,734]

18 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Does The DUFF have inappropriate scenes?

 

Sex, Romance & Nudity. Sex-related themes permeate the movie. Crude jokes/references right off the bat include talk about what boys would like to do to girls ("banging," etc.). Teen couples also kiss/make out, sometimes passionately, and imagine/allude to having sex, but no graphic nudity.

-------

I've found actual excerpts from Vampire Academy... 

https://www.shmoop.com/study-guides/vampire-academy/sex-quotes-4.html

 starting to think theres not nothing near as graphic as what Senator Kennedy was reading in the Senate... the sex scenes aren't so nearly in the steamy detail of the gay porn in libraries. no talk of "lubing up" and "feeling him inside me"... 

 

-----

 

IT also seems that calls were made for these books to be reoved as well even though the sex in them are already less graphic.

I believe that you are correct, and that there is nothing nearly as graphic in @Sean Mooney's list as there is in yours.  But I'm open to being wrong, perhaps he can comment?  

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,038]

50 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

All the gloryhole stuff makes more sense knowing all the research Eternal has done in the lgbtq section.   Take a break and read some Tom Clancy or something once in awhile.   

Seems like you're trying to hide something here. Your post is literally dripping with defensive maneuvers and smoke screens.

[Voltaire 5,281]

19 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I believe that you are correct, and that there is nothing nearly as graphic in @Sean Mooney's list as there is in yours.  But I'm open to being wrong, perhaps he can comment?  

I'm not going through all of them, but taking the time to check out and learn that the first two on his list are not nearly as bad and that at least the one has indeed faced objections really blows a hole in his point.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,038]

Just now, Voltaire said:

I'm not going through all of them, but taking the time to check out and learn that the first two on his list are not nearly as bad and that at least the one has indeed faced objections really blows a hole in his point.

Of course it does.  He was using a false equivalency to try and prove his point.  It was exposed with even the most cursory of examinations like you did.  We all knew he was doing it to make it seem like that ghey shiate was innocuous.  It's how they're trying to get all of this perverted, degenerate crap  thru - pretend it's not as bad as X and hope no one looks into it.

[BuckSwope 654]

2 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

Lots of qualifiers there....but there are a lot of books in school libraries that are hetero sex discussed in a very forthright and passionate way:

 

The DUFF

Vampire Academy series

Perfect Chemistry series

Twilight saga

Forbidden

Going Too Far

 

 

that's just to get you started

Can you give examples, or is this something you've encountered with your own kids bringing stuff home to read?     

My usual go-to is something like Stephen King.   I know there is some sex in those because I've read them, and I don't think most parents would blink an eye if their HSer was reading one of his books.  That said, some of the examples I have seen like Gender Queer or other books that are non-graphic novels are way worse than I thought, and of course should be challenged.   ETA:  I use King because I have also seen his books in HS libraries, but to be fair have occasionally seen him on challenged lists too.  

Personally, I don't know why there isn't a ratings system for books like other media or an easier way to vet these things before the kids consume them.  I have 2-3 free sites I know of that I can check about movies and shows, and get pretty detailed descriptions of the plot and specific examples of language used and things like that.   I looked at your list and tried to find examples of what might be in Twilight and just randomly Perfect Chemistry, and found basically jack sh1t.   

[KSB2424 3,148]

18 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

I'm not going through all of them, but taking the time to check out and learn that the first two on his list are not nearly as bad and that at least the one has indeed faced objections really blows a hole in his point.

Of course they are not nearly as bad. If they were they wouldn’t be there because normal people think it’s inappropriate to have explicit sexual material in school libraries. No matter if its hetero or homo sexual. This is the biggest “DUH” moment ever.  

ETA: there are a lot of things to disagree and argue about but the whole “Banning Book!@&$!l” thing is the most retarded.  

We don’t show Rated R movies at the Pre-School Ma’am.  Karen:  “Why are you BANNING MOVIES!”

 JFC.  

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

1 hour ago, Voltaire said:

Does The DUFF have inappropriate scenes?

 

Sex, Romance & Nudity. Sex-related themes permeate the movie. Crude jokes/references right off the bat include talk about what boys would like to do to girls ("banging," etc.). Teen couples also kiss/make out, sometimes passionately, and imagine/allude to having sex, but no graphic nudity.

-------

I've found actual excerpts from Vampire Academy... 

https://www.shmoop.com/study-guides/vampire-academy/sex-quotes-4.html

 starting to think theres not nothing near as graphic as what Senator Kennedy was reading in the Senate... the sex scenes aren't so nearly in the steamy detail of the gay porn in libraries. no talk of "lubing up" and "feeling him inside me"... 

 

-----

 

IT also seems that calls were made for these books to be reoved as well even though the sex in them are already less graphic.

I don't think I would use Shmoop as a valid source on this considering it is just cursory looks at books. 

 

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

26 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Can you give examples, or is this something you've encountered with your own kids bringing stuff home to read?     

My usual go-to is something like Stephen King.   I know there is some sex in those because I've read them, and I don't think most parents would blink an eye if their HSer was reading one of his books.  That said, some of the examples I have seen like Gender Queer or other books that are non-graphic novels are way worse than I thought, and of course should be challenged.   ETA:  I use King because I have also seen his books in HS libraries, but to be fair have occasionally seen him on challenged lists too.  

Personally, I don't know why there isn't a ratings system for books like other media or an easier way to vet these things before the kids consume them.  I have 2-3 free sites I know of that I can check about movies and shows, and get pretty detailed descriptions of the plot and specific examples of language used and things like that.   I looked at your list and tried to find examples of what might be in Twilight and just randomly Perfect Chemistry, and found basically jack sh1t.   

 

There is hetereo sex discussed openly or stuff of a sensual nature discussed. It has been so long since I read Twilight (and it wasn't very good anyway) so I couldn't speak to that.

The larger issue for me is if we are looking for "salacious examples" that is a subjective thing because what is questionable to me might not be questionable to someone else and vice versa. That means we are trying to legislate what I'm okay with over what someone else is. That's why I'm fine with a book being in a library at a school for an appropriate age and not forced to read. Something with above the line discussions of gay sex or something shouldn't be in an elementary school for a variety of reasons. 

The King example is a good one. It is in school libraries and features a pivotal scene where the boys run a train on Beverly.  

[Voltaire 5,281]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

I don't think I would use Shmoop as a valid source on this considering it is just cursory looks at books. 

 

It's what I had. Do you have a better source that shows the really trashy parts Shmoop won't touch?

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

1 minute ago, Voltaire said:

It's what I had. Do you have a better source that shows the really trashy parts Shmoop won't touch?

If Vampire Academy is the book I think it is- the romance in it is between a 24 year old teacher and 17 year old student. The trash falls more into descriptions than pictures like some of the books that people want to ban. But again- there are people who will think something is over the line that you and I might not. 

[Voltaire 5,281]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

 

There is hetereo sex discussed openly or stuff of a sensual nature discussed. It has been so long since I read Twilight (and it wasn't very good anyway) so I couldn't speak to that.

The larger issue for me is if we are looking for "salacious examples" that is a subjective thing because what is questionable to me might not be questionable to someone else and vice versa. That means we are trying to legislate what I'm okay with over what someone else is. That's why I'm fine with a book being in a library at a school for an appropriate age and not forced to read. Something with above the line discussions of gay sex or something shouldn't be in an elementary school for a variety of reasons. 

The King example is a good one. It is in school libraries and features a pivotal scene where the boys run a train on Beverly.  

Since you've actually read Twilight, that means that you should know where to look for the steamiest most raunchy, juiciest passages are. I'd like for you to share them with us because I want to compare the top-most controversial thing in Twilight to Some Boys aren't Blue.

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

9 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Since you've actually read Twilight, that means that you should know where to look for the steamiest most raunchy, juiciest passages are. I'd like for you to share them with us because I want to compare the top-most controversial thing in Twilight to Some Boys aren't Blue.

I've tried to block that book from my memory hole. But if we agree that it is mild- you should also know for a while it was one of the most challenged books in schools. 

Also, you are missing my larger point- lots of books get challenged. For many reasons. I'm of the belief that if a book is in a library and not required reading and age appropriate it's probably okay and a parent can allow a kid to read it or not. But again- a book that talks about like anal sex- should not be in an elementary or middle school or even really in a high school. A book about a gay couple- sure..that's probably fine for like middle school and up.  

I'm not making apples to apples comparisons and I didn't say something like Vampire Academy is equivalent. I just said there are books that talk about heterosex in a very forthright manner. I don't think they are worse but people have challenged them so they think they are equal or worse. There is a book called Ready or Not that has a pretty frank part where the girl talks about masturbating with her showerhead. 

[KSB2424 3,148]

@Sean Mooney

Not sure if you play poker or even know the terminology but it’s time to fold your hand. 

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

2 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

@Sean Mooney

Not sure if you play poker or even know the terminology but it’s time to fold your hand. 

So there aren't a lot of books challenged for strange reasons?

Do you disagree books should be appropriately placed?

Do you think my morality should govern you or yours should govern mine?

You all have a way of trying to fit an argument into some narrow thing you want it to be rather than actually trying to understand what the person is trying to say because things have to be either "Yay we agree" or "Boo we don't"

[Voltaire 5,281]

32 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

If Vampire Academy is the book I think it is- the romance in it is between a 24 year old teacher and 17 year old student. The trash falls more into descriptions than pictures like some of the books that people want to ban. But again- there are people who will think something is over the line that you and I might not. 

Let me try this again

i provided a link to the actual words, lines, and paragraphs used in what Shloop identified as the most steamy part of Vampire Academy. This is how that reads in Vampire Academy:

Quote

I'd never been completely naked around a guy before. It scared the hell out of me—even though it excited me, too. Lying on the covers, we clung to each other and kept kissing—and kissing and kissing and kissing. His hands and lips took possession of my body, and every touch was like fire on my skin. (19.1)

Now let's compare it to the actual words, lines, and paragraphs used in the most steamy parts of All Boys are Blue

Quote

 "I PUT SOME LUBE ON AND GOT HIM ON HIS KNEES. I BEGAN TO SLIDE INTO HIM FROM BEHIND. I PULLED OUT OF HIM AND KISSED HIM WHILE WE. HE ASKED ME TO TURN OVER WHILE HE SLIPPED A CONDOM ON HIMSELF. I WAS STRUGGLING TO IMAGINE SOMEONE INSIDE ME. HE GOT ON TOP AND SLOWLY INSERTED HIMSELF INTO ME. IT WAS THE WORST PAIN I THINK I HAVE EVER FELT IN MY LIFE. EVENTUALLY, I FELT A MIX OF PLEASURE WITH THE PAIN.".

And Finally Gender Queer
 

Quote

I got a new strap-on harness today, I can’t wait to put it on you. It will fit my favorite diIdo perfectly, you’re going to look so hot. I can’t wait to have your c*ck in my mouth. I’m going to give you the bIowjob of your life then I want you inside of me,”

Since they look identical, I changed the lower case Ls to capital Is to beat the sensor. Those words are "diido" and "biowjob"

[Reality 3,121]

8 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

@Sean Mooney

Not sure if you play poker or even know the terminology but it’s time to fold your hand. 

Well, he tried.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,280]

I weep for this country. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,038]

12 minutes ago, Reality said:

Well, he tried.

He tried to make the worst false equivalency imaginable.

I'm starting to get the feeling that he didn't read any of those books and he's just regurgitating the talking points. The fact that he wasn't able to come up with any examples kind of is the tell.

When that's the case, you know it's just ghey talking point propaganda he's regurgitating.

[BuckSwope 654]

35 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

 

There is hetereo sex discussed openly or stuff of a sensual nature discussed. It has been so long since I read Twilight (and it wasn't very good anyway) so I couldn't speak to that.

The larger issue for me is if we are looking for "salacious examples" that is a subjective thing because what is questionable to me might not be questionable to someone else and vice versa. That means we are trying to legislate what I'm okay with over what someone else is. That's why I'm fine with a book being in a library at a school for an appropriate age and not forced to read. Something with above the line discussions of gay sex or something shouldn't be in an elementary school for a variety of reasons. 

The King example is a good one. It is in school libraries and features a pivotal scene where the boys run a train on Beverly.  

I get what you are saying here, but I think the reasonable way to approach that is with honest discussion about what the examples we are talking are.    IMO if you got about 10-20 rational adults together to look at examples you'd start form a decent line of what could be acceptable in a school setting.    That should be a discussion for each school district.    The problem is, nothing is ever with rational people, so it often seems like it's a battle of Bible thumping Moms for Liberty vs. anything goes leftie freaks.    It's unreasonable for parents to want to know there is some sort of reasonable restrictions on books that are in a school library and factoring age groups.  

Right or wrong, people also look differently at a 1000 page horror novel with a few pages of strong sexual content vs. examples where teen relationships and sexuality are the core theme of the book.  

[BuckSwope 654]

Right on cue, thanks @Voltaire - there's also the fact that Gender Queer is a graphic novel as well.  I don't know how a group of rational people would allow those last examples in a school library.   Very few examples of non-lgbtq material reach that same level.    Maybe the IT example is that bad, I don't remember.   If it is, cool - toss it on the list too.   Perfectly reasonable.  

NOW where I get skeptical from the other side is that I have read it the opposite way.  An example I see on a list is about as tame as your example from Vampire Academy, but is on the challenged list and removed along side of books like Gender Queer and All Boys Are Blue.   So when I see the religious right leading the charge, and a large % of the challenged books being lgbtq it makes me ask more questions.  

[KSB2424 3,148]

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

48 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Let me try this again

i provided a link to the actual words, lines, and paragraphs used in what Shloop identified as the most steamy part of Vampire Academy. This is how that reads in Vampire Academy:

Now let's compare it to the actual words, lines, and paragraphs used in the most steamy parts of All Boys are Blue

And Finally Gender Queer
 

Since they look identical, I changed the lower case Ls to capital Is to beat the sensor. Those words are "diido" and "biowjob"

How else would you like me to say that I think books with examples like the latter ones you mentioned should not necessarily be in schools?

How else would you like me to ask you how far this morality goes when books - that you acknowledge are tame- are also challenged in the same manner as those examples?

How else would you like me to indicate I am not saying that All Boys are Blue and Twilight are equal but that people challenge them in equal manner? 

How else would you like me to state that I think a book's ability to be read should almost always be in the hands of the parents as long as it is appropriately placed and NOT in the curriculum making it required reading?

You are fixated on this idea that I am opposite of you on this issue. I am not. 

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

48 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

He tried to make the worst false equivalency imaginable.

I'm starting to get the feeling that he didn't read any of those books and he's just regurgitating the talking points. The fact that he wasn't able to come up with any examples kind of is the tell.

When that's the case, you know it's just ghey talking point propaganda he's regurgitating.

How many times have you read All Boys Aren't Blue or Gender Queer?