This economy is so bad

[DonS 3,292]

Bidenomics is so awesome that I saw an ad begging for baby formula and diaper donations as a movie preview yesterday. 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6pFEh3SUP1/?igsh=eGI1c3phY294Ynk=

 

[Mark Davis 398]

10 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I end up going to these chains. Kids like them and I know what the food is all about, I have eaten in many top end places. But you know what these places get right on the reg? The beer is always ice cold and at a reasonable price. I can’t say that for many independent places. They know what they are doing with that. Otherwise I don’t think I’d go. And that Blue Chess iceberg wedge at outback is awesome. 

Outback is ok.  Their salads are really the best thing there in my opinion.  Well, that and I like the grilled chicken, can eat a healthy dinner.  However, ours has really gone downhill post Covid.  Never has gotten staffing right since then.  Very spotty on service and quality.  I'm sure like any other chain, depends on your local manager.

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

53 minutes ago, DonS said:

Bidenomics is so awesome that I saw an ad begging for baby formula and diaper donations as a movie preview yesterday. 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6pFEh3SUP1/?igsh=eGI1c3phY294Ynk=

 

So this one person somehow overshadows soaring stock market, GDP, CPI, wages as well as record-low unemployment, decreasing inflation and a whole lot of indicators than those isolated cases that MAGAturds cling to in hopes of detracted from an actually great economy that undermines their felonious boyo's ability to get votes to become the atrocious dictator they want him to be.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

4 hours ago, thegeneral said:

Thanks to Joe Biden! 

Their steaks were on point, and the salad bar was off the chain. I didn't even like salad until my family went here. 

[TimHauck 2,876]

6 hours ago, Mark Davis said:

Outback is ok.  Their salads are really the best thing there in my opinion.  Well, that and I like the grilled chicken, can eat a healthy dinner.  However, ours has really gone downhill post Covid.  Never has gotten staffing right since then.  Very spotty on service and quality.  I'm sure like any other chain, depends on your local manager.

At least this guy acknowledges that it was Covid (and the huge increase in demand that followed the vaccines being available and everyone wanting to do things again) that really caused many of the supply and labor shortages starting in 2021.  Even in 2020, many restaurant workers realized their jobs could be lost easily and switched fields, others had finally had enough of dealing with sh1tty people.

[DonS 3,292]

7 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said:

So this one person somehow overshadows soaring stock market, GDP, CPI, wages as well as record-low unemployment, decreasing inflation and a whole lot of indicators than those isolated cases that MAGAturds cling to in hopes of detracted from an actually great economy that undermines their felonious boyo's ability to get votes to become the atrocious dictator they want him to be.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"This one person" was a PSA being played during previews before a major movie in AMC theaters.  Maybe you should call and explain to these poor moms that can't afford diapers how it's all in their imagination because the GDP is awesome.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/baby2baby_baby2baby-on-the-big-screen-thank-you-amc-activity-7071887161054162944-Tr16?trk=public_profile_like_view

 

[Nomad99 742]

If you are white collar, wealthy, have money to invest or are on the government dole.....yeah, things are great. If you are blue collar, don't have money to invest or are retired living off your soc.......things are not great. Things are not great for the largest group of people. Stop making sound like this "great economy" is beneficial to everyone. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

4 minutes ago, Nomad99 said:

If you are white collar, wealthy, have money to invest or are on the government dole.....yeah, things are great. If you are blue collar, don't have money to invest or are retired living off your soc.......things are not great. Things are not great for the largest group of people. Stop making sound like this "great economy" is beneficial to everyone. 

You just described the economy for the last 40 years.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

“The idea the stock market is booming is his only measure of what’s happening.  Where I come from in Scranton and Claymont, people don’t live off the stock market” - Joe Biden Oct 2016 

[zsasz 369]

Record travels over Memorial Day weekend.  Record travel levels predicted for this summer.  Yeah...I know when the economy sucks; people travel and go on vacation.  Maybe these people are actually refugees looking for a place to move to thats financially booming and are taking planes and gassing up their vehicles to escape these harsh financial times?

[TimHauck 2,876]

23 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

You just described the economy for the last 40 years.

Except 2008-2010 when it was worse for even more people

[GutterBoy 2,899]

41 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Except 2008-2010 when it was worse for even more people

Speaking generally over the past 40 or so years, going back to cutting of highest tax rates, cutting capital gains, we morphed into a system that benefits the top.  Trickle down economics, but it hasn't worked.  The wealth inequality gap has only increased, and the middle and lower classes shoulder more of the burden.  We have a system where if you have money, are a homeowner and have invested in the market, you're doing well.  If not, then you're struggling, and it's been that way for decades.

[Nomad99 742]

2 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

Speaking generally over the past 40 or so years, going back to cutting of highest tax rates, cutting capital gains, we morphed into a system that benefits the top.  Trickle down economics, but it hasn't worked.  The wealth inequality gap has only increased, and the middle and lower classes shoulder more of the burden.  We have a system where if you have money, are a homeowner and have invested in the market, you're doing well.  If not, then you're struggling, and it's been that way for decades.

Exactly.....and this is well known. Touting the current economy as great is purposefully sidestepping what it actually is for the majority of the population. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

5 minutes ago, Nomad99 said:

Exactly.....and this is well known. Touting the current economy as great is purposefully sidestepping what it actually is for the majority of the population. 

But you're gonna tout that the Trump economy was great, right?  The economy that slashed corp taxes and raised tariffs to the detriment of the middle/lower class?

[TimHauck 2,876]

4 hours ago, Nomad99 said:

Exactly.....and this is well known. Touting the current economy as great is purposefully sidestepping what it actually is for the majority of the population. 

Do you think the current economy is “the worst in the lower classes’ lifetime”?

[Mark Davis 398]

9 hours ago, TimHauck said:

At least this guy acknowledges that it was Covid (and the huge increase in demand that followed the vaccines being available and everyone wanting to do things again) that really caused many of the supply and labor shortages starting in 2021.  Even in 2020, many restaurant workers realized their jobs could be lost easily and switched fields, others had finally had enough of dealing with sh1tty people.

Sure.  Paying people to not work had an impact on it too.  I'm pretty realistic and try to view economic situations with open eyes.  How can you profit if you only want to lie to yourself about economic realities?  The restaurant industry was forever changed by the economic forces at play, specifically when it came to the labor market as we came out of it in 2021.

I admit I chuckle a bit about the discussion of corporate tax rate and it's part in the overall economy.  You can't view that rate in an isolated vacuum.  Right now the US is about middle of the pack on corporate rates in the industrialized world.  Each move on the rate has a ripple effect on jobs, movement of corporations (both in and out), and obviously revenues.  I would argue that much more important than the corporate rates, our runaway spending has had a much larger impact.  You simply can't flood the zone with economic stimulus and not expect inflation.  Particularly coming off a time where we were paying people to stay home.  The end result was obviously an increase in currency with reduced output. It's impossible to do that and not have inflationary pressures.  I think what's especially troubling is that the Fed is realizing they can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.  Inflation has remained more stubborn than they ever expected.  The old target of 2% seems far away.  If the fed does remain diligent, we won't see those rate cuts everyone anticipated.

It's fine to argue the merits of whether or not we reacted in the right way with stimulus, whether or not we did too much.  But the impact of what we did is pretty obvious at this point and now the question is how to deal with it.

[TimHauck 2,876]

34 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

Sure.  Paying people to not work had an impact on it too.  I'm pretty realistic and try to view economic situations with open eyes.  How can you profit if you only want to lie to yourself about economic realities?  The restaurant industry was forever changed by the economic forces at play, specifically when it came to the labor market as we came out of it in 2021.

I admit I chuckle a bit about the discussion of corporate tax rate and it's part in the overall economy.  You can't view that rate in an isolated vacuum.  Right now the US is about middle of the pack on corporate rates in the industrialized world.  Each move on the rate has a ripple effect on jobs, movement of corporations (both in and out), and obviously revenues.  I would argue that much more important than the corporate rates, our runaway spending has had a much larger impact.  You simply can't flood the zone with economic stimulus and not expect inflation.  Particularly coming off a time where we were paying people to stay home.  The end result was obviously an increase in currency with reduced output. It's impossible to do that and not have inflationary pressures.  I think what's especially troubling is that the Fed is realizing they can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.  Inflation has remained more stubborn than they ever expected.  The old target of 2% seems far away.  If the fed does remain diligent, we won't see those rate cuts everyone anticipated.

It's fine to argue the merits of whether or not we reacted in the right way with stimulus, whether or not we did too much.  But the impact of what we did is pretty obvious at this point and now the question is how to deal with it.

Biden’s stimulus made inflation worse because it gave people more money to spend and created more demand for goods and services, which was already spiking when everything opened up after the height of covid.  I think the “paying people not to work” trope is overblown however or else the staffing shortages should have ended when those payments ended but they didn’t.  The biggest factor as it relates to restaurants in particular IMO was the pandemic made people realize they didn’t want to work in restaurants anymore.  So they had to pay people more to attract workers which gets passed to consumers in the food prices.

[Mark Davis 398]

3 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Biden’s stimulus made inflation worse because it gave people more money to spend and created more demand for goods and services, which was already spiking when everything opened up after the height of covid.  I think the “paying people not to work” trope is overblown however or else the staffing shortages should have ended when those payments ended but they didn’t.  The biggest factor as it relates to restaurants in particular IMO was the pandemic made people realize they didn’t want to work in restaurants anymore.  So they had to pay people more to attract workers which gets passed to consumers in the food prices.

Why are you calling a fact a trope?  We paid people not to work.  You can argue the merits, but factually that's what we did.  Also, just because you stop something doesn't mean it returns to the way it was in an economic environment.  Just as inflation has not regressed to its former levels, neither did demand for jobs in the restaurant industry from the workforce.  While labor costs certainly did increase, that is true, the materials/raw costs for food also took a large move upward. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

As for momentary and transient indicators gas is up in my neighborhood to $3.69 so still not unreasonable.  the market is down 1600 points in the last 7 sessions from its historic high.  I am a bit worried about the market particularly as I believe we will see ia slight uptick in reported inflation numbers here quite soon.  Still, all very transient indications.

 

I do hope we don't need the strategic oil resdrve this summer or fall.  I heard but have not confirmed we may have a wild hurricane season so we may need it.

 

Hoping my retirement is not interrupted by going back to work.  If so, well sheet happens.

[TimHauck 2,876]

49 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

Why are you calling a fact a trope?  We paid people not to work.  You can argue the merits, but factually that's what we did.  Also, just because you stop something doesn't mean it returns to the way it was in an economic environment.  Just as inflation has not regressed to its former levels, neither did demand for jobs in the restaurant industry from the workforce.  While labor costs certainly did increase, that is true, the materials/raw costs for food also took a large move upward. 

It’s a fact there was extra unemployment. It’s not a fact that that contributed to staffing shortages in any measurable way

[WhiteWonder 2,738]

Inflation still pretty high and this admin has done little to curb it… basically just let the fed choose to try and tackle it by raising interest rates. So now we have high inflation in tandem with high mortgage rates. Even the people benefiting from having no mortgage or a previously locked in rate (by taking advantage of 5% accounts) still can’t use that advantage to keep up with inflation 

but let’s keep focusing on student debt forgiveness 

[BeachGuy23 642]

1 minute ago, WhiteWonder said:

Inflation still pretty high and this admin has done little to curb it… basically just let the fed choose to try and tackle it by raising interest rates. So now we have high inflation in tandem with high mortgage rates. Even the people benefiting from having no mortgage or a previously locked in rate (by taking advantage of 5% accounts) still can’t use that advantage to keep up with inflation 

but let’s keep focusing on student debt forgiveness 

What do you expect the admin to do to combat inflation except curtail spending?  And even that would only have a minor impact.

The amount of money Trump flushed through the economy, as well as ruined supply chains in 2020 and Biden's dumb covid stimulus, is what created inflation.

And no, inflation at 3.4% is historically reasonable.  A true soft landing was achieved by the Fed.

You also realize that as the Fed raises rates to bring down Trumpflation, that all interest rates rise, right?

Can't have high Fed rates and low mortgage rates boyo. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

It would be more genuine to say- we had two presidents flush money through the system as a means of preventing an economic downfall in the wake of COVID. As of now we have not had an economic recession.

Also, when you pump money in it was always going to create inflation on the back end and mess with interest, and by proxy, mortgage rates. There are some positive signs there but obviously not as much or as quickly as anyone would like.

I do think we also need to blame corporations some here for artificially keeping prices on things high (although we are seeing some companies like Wal-Mart and Target start to roll back prices again on items).

 

So we are in this mess because of two parties, two presidents, a pandemic, and corporate greed. 

[WhiteWonder 2,738]

1 hour ago, BeachGuy23 said:

You also realize that as the Fed raises rates to bring down Trumpflation, that all interest rates rise, right?

Can't have high Fed rates and low mortgage rates boyo. 

lol, boyo. 

I literally said, in the post you quoted,  that raising rates raised mortgage rates (and bank interest rates).  reading not your strong suit huh?

 

Trumpflation 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

21 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

It would be more genuine to say- we had two presidents flush money through the system as a means of preventing an economic downfall in the wake of COVID. As of now we have not had an economic recession.

Also, when you pump money in it was always going to create inflation on the back end and mess with interest, and by proxy, mortgage rates. There are some positive signs there but obviously not as much or as quickly as anyone would like.

I do think we also need to blame corporations some here for artificially keeping prices on things high (although we are seeing some companies like Wal-Mart and Target start to roll back prices again on items).

 

So we are in this mess because of two parties, two presidents, a pandemic, and corporate greed. 

Quality post

[TimHauck 2,876]

5 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

 believe we will see ia slight uptick in reported inflation numbers here quite soon. 

 

2 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

It would be more genuine to say- we had two presidents flush money through the system as a means of preventing an economic downfall in the wake of COVID. As of now we have not had an economic recession.

Also, when you pump money in it was always going to create inflation on the back end and mess with interest, and by proxy, mortgage rates. There are some positive signs there but obviously not as much or as quickly as anyone would like.

I do think we also need to blame corporations some here for artificially keeping prices on things high (although we are seeing some companies like Wal-Mart and Target start to roll back prices again on items).

 

So we are in this mess because of two parties, two presidents, a pandemic, and corporate greed. 

Agree with most of this, although I honestly wouldn’t blame Trump for much of the inflation.  It started during his term but was mostly the result of Covid and the resulting strain on supply.  His stimulus was more necessary for the immediate aftermath of Covid, Biden’s arguably was not.   

But your last 2 paragraphs are spot on.  I work in the food industry and generally speaking I think the cost increases in 2022ish were real, however many costs have since come down but companies are a lot less willing to reduce prices than raise them.  Many are however starting to run more sales and stuff like that so the overall cost to consumers is coming down or staying the same at worst (talking more specifically of groceries).

@Engorgeous George, curious why you think we’ll see an uptick in inflation?

I’d be surprised to see it go up much, but yes it doesn’t really seem to be coming down. I’d say the reason for that is that there is still high demand.  I don’t think there’s much risk for stagflation though if unemployment increases. If that happens then demand will decrease and prices will be forced to decrease as well. 

 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

7 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

 

Agree with most of this, although I honestly wouldn’t blame Trump for much of the inflation.  It started during his term but was mostly the result of Covid and the resulting strain on supply combined with surge in demand once the vaccines were available and everything opened back up.  His stimulus was more necessary for the immediate aftermath of Covid, Biden’s arguably was not.   

But your last 2 paragraphs are spot on.  I work in the food industry and generally speaking I think the cost increases in 2022ish were real, however many costs have since come down but companies are a lot less willing to reduce prices than raise them.  Many are however starting to run more sales and stuff like that so the overall cost to consumers is coming down or staying the same at worst.

@Engorgeous George, curious why you think we’ll see an uptick in inflation?

 

Just a feeling.  I have zero economic training either in school or in my professional life so I would be the last person to listen to on this.  I definately cannot give you any reason an economist would recognize, except if I did so by accident.

 

We have what, two weeks before the next report.  My hope is it ameliorates a bit and that the market  moves back towards its high of two weeks ago. That would be good for me as I am retired and living off of interest and savings.  (One year and six months before I start taking social security)

[Mark Davis 398]

6 hours ago, TimHauck said:

It’s a fact there was extra unemployment. It’s not a fact that that contributed to staffing shortages in any measurable way

Why  would you think that?  That's counter to every econ class I ever had all the way through grad school.  I'm assuming we agree that we gave more unemployment than some jobs were paying in wages.  So why would that incentive of you get more money to not work, not then lead more people to not work?

[RLLD 4,230]

On 5/29/2024 at 7:10 PM, Sean Mooney said:

It would be more genuine to say- we had two presidents flush money through the system as a means of preventing an economic downfall in the wake of COVID. As of now we have not had an economic recession.

Also, when you pump money in it was always going to create inflation on the back end and mess with interest, and by proxy, mortgage rates. There are some positive signs there but obviously not as much or as quickly as anyone would like.

I do think we also need to blame corporations some here for artificially keeping prices on things high (although we are seeing some companies like Wal-Mart and Target start to roll back prices again on items).

 

So we are in this mess because of two parties, two presidents, a pandemic, and corporate greed. 

Not exactly....

 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

4 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Not exactly....

 

Clearly I listed a bunch of things and said all of those things together are doing it. It isn't one or the other. You countered with a video done by a guy with a skeleton behind him.

Looking at the article on CNN it shows these quotes as well: "The Fed researchers did find that some companies exercised pricing power by raising prices above their production costs – a gap known as markups....For instance, markups spiked for gasoline, cars and other goods in 2021. Likewise, there were increased markups for repair, general merchandise, laundry, personal care and other services, according to the Fed."

[RLLD 4,230]

6 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Clearly I listed a bunch of things and said all of those things together are doing it. It isn't one or the other. You countered with a video done by a guy with a skeleton behind him.

Looking at the article on CNN it shows these quotes as well: "The Fed researchers did find that some companies exercised pricing power by raising prices above their production costs – a gap known as markups....For instance, markups spiked for gasoline, cars and other goods in 2021. Likewise, there were increased markups for repair, general merchandise, laundry, personal care and other services, according to the Fed."

The issue is not greed, it is poor policy.  Not that complex.  You should resist the lies of politicians as they are only interested in your subjugation through misrepresentation..don't give them the satisfaction of manipulating you so easily.

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

The issue is not greed, it is poor policy.  Not that complex.  You should resist the lies of politicians as they are only interested in your subjugation through misrepresentation..don't give them the satisfaction of manipulating you so easily.

I suggest you read my post again. I didn't assign all the blame to corporate greed and said it is somewhat involved. The quote I used as well- FROM THE SAME ARTICLE THE GUY IN THE VIDEO YOU POSTED TALKS ABOUT- does say there are some markup issues that hurt things.

 

Maybe then you can look up a video with a dude with a bobo doll in the background to help support his point of view. 

 

[RLLD 4,230]

9 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I suggest you read my post again. I didn't assign all the blame to corporate greed and said it is somewhat involved. The quote I used as well- FROM THE SAME ARTICLE THE GUY IN THE VIDEO YOU POSTED TALKS ABOUT- does say there are some markup issues that hurt things.

 

Maybe then you can look up a video with a dude with a bobo doll in the background to help support his point of view. 

 

So then , you still do not yet understand that this is purely policy, not greed..... I mean, if you want to believe that trite nonsense, by all means. But rest assured, the market will behave the same way the next time, because bad policy requires business adjustment.

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

Just now, RLLD said:

So then , you still do not yet understand that this is purely policy, not greed..... I mean, if you want to believe that trite nonsense, by all means. But rest assured, the market will behave the same way the next time, because bad policy requires business adjustment.

So then, you still have not read what I actually wrote and instead are choosing to focus on the last two words of the post...A post where I said this: "So we are in this mess because of two parties, two presidents, a pandemic, and corporate greed." The latter of which I said has "some" blame. Not all, not most, "some." 
 

I know you had a rough morning trying to bob and weave all over different arguments and looking foolish in the process but this is a bad afternoon you are now having. 

[RLLD 4,230]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

So then, you still have not read what I actually wrote and instead are choosing to focus on the last two words of the post...A post where I said this: "So we are in this mess because of two parties, two presidents, a pandemic, and corporate greed." The latter of which I said has "some" blame. Not all, not most, "some." 
 

I know you had a rough morning trying to bob and weave all over different arguments and looking foolish in the process but this is a bad afternoon you are now having. 

"I" am speaking pointedly to the assertion toward corporate greed, you are correct that it is this point on which I am refuting your position, and you seem to object to this......rather than defend it.....

If I might....consider defending the assertion I am refuting instead of meandering around it.

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

19 minutes ago, RLLD said:

"I" am speaking pointedly to the assertion toward corporate greed, you are correct that it is this point on which I am refuting your position, and you seem to object to this......rather than defend it.....

If I might....consider defending the assertion I am refuting instead of meandering around it.

I did defend it WITH QUOTES FROM THE ARTICLE IN THE VIDEO ITSELF. 

The video is operating from the POV that all of this is on corporate greed- as Queen Dipshit Elizabeth Warren argued. I never made that argument. The article on CNN and the study it mentions does say there is something in the markups but it isn't all of it.

So the video points out what I said is correct. You are choosing to argue against the entirety of what I said because you are not understanding the video you shared. 

[RLLD 4,230]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I did defend it WITH QUOTES FROM THE ARTICLE IN THE VIDEO ITSELF. 

The video is operating from the POV that all of this is on corporate greed- as Queen Dipshit Elizabeth Warren argued. I never made that argument. The article on CNN and the study it mentions does say there is something in the markups but it isn't all of it.

So the video points out what I said is correct. You are choosing to argue against the entirety of what I said because you are not understanding the video you shared. 

And my link contains detail.....from the Fed....that refuted your nonsense. So....the Fed is admitting the problem, but you.....think they....are lying?

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

7 minutes ago, RLLD said:

And my link contains detail.....from the Fed....that refuted your nonsense. So....the Fed is admitting the problem, but you.....think they....are lying?

You are obtuse at this point as you are misrepresenting what I said and my argument to try and win. Get over yourself.

The research points out that there were markups on important things that hurt but in overall trends things are flat. So they do acknowledge that some things were affected and some are not. So we are in this mess because of two parties, two presidents, a pandemic, and corporate greed. 

Additionally, there are a lot of assumptions in the study if you read it. Maybe the skeleton didn't tell you that. 

[RLLD 4,230]

30 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

You are obtuse at this point as you are misrepresenting what I said and my argument to try and win. Get over yourself.

The research points out that there were markups on important things that hurt but in overall trends things are flat. So they do acknowledge that some things were affected and some are not. So we are in this mess because of two parties, two presidents, a pandemic, and corporate greed. 

Additionally, there are a lot of assumptions in the study if you read it. Maybe the skeleton didn't tell you that. 

Not corporate greed unless the Fed is lying but this common tactic by those implementing failed policy has been refuted... and refuted.

It might be time to stop parroting ideological lies from your preferred party, holding on to these lies will impede solutions and also future avoidance. It might self-sooth for you to believe such trite nonsense, but it retards your thinking.

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

46 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Not corporate greed unless the Fed is lying but this common tactic by those implementing failed policy has been refuted... and refuted.

It might be time to stop parroting ideological lies from your preferred party, holding on to these lies will impede solutions and also future avoidance. It might self-sooth for you to believe such trite nonsense, but it retards your thinking.

I don't have a preferred party. Stop with that hacky line of argument. It makes your whole point invalid. Even more so than just ignoring what someone said and arguing that something that proves them right is right. I thank you for constantly pointing out what I said is accurate, but I don't need it. Maybe go back to your insipid argument this morning and try to put that into the land of coherence.