Renting V Owning

[Hardcore troubadour 14,946]

Here you go you jackasses. Your very own thread to argue this endless back and forth that invades every other thread. You can all keep telling everyone how smart you are, right here. 

[thegeneral 2,913]

How about one for Biden YouTube vids?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,946]

2 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

How about one for Biden YouTube vids?

Then go start one.  Do you have any of your own ideas? 

[thegeneral 2,913]

How about one for trans issues?

[edjr 6,578]

I rent properties I own, 

white privilege? yay or nay

[Hardcore troubadour 14,946]

2 minutes ago, edjr said:

I rent properties I own, 

white privilege? yay or nay

Smart. There’s always some brokediks that can’t get a mortgage. We’ll never run out of them. Many of them have student loans and work at Starbucks. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Smart. There’s always some brokediks that can’t get a mortgage. We’ll never run out of them. Many of them have student loans and work at Starbucks. 

Hey, that’s no way to talk about @seafoam1 !

[seafoam1 2,803]

7 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Hey, that’s no way to talk about @seafoam1 !

FACT: Owning a home is not an indicator that you are financially well off. Renting is not an indicator that you are not financially well off.

I see the only people speaking about my financially stable life are the ones that will need to work until they are 80 to make ends meat. 

Have fun with that peanut. I'm sure you'll have some friends come along boasting about how great they have things. Maybe you all can get together when you retire in 25 years years from now. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

4 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

FACT: Owning a home is not an indicator that you are financially well off. Renting is not an indicator that you are not financially well off.

I see the only people speaking about my financially stable life are the ones that will need to work until they are 80 to make ends meat. 

Have fun with that peanut. I'm sure you'll have some friends come along boasting about how great they have things. Maybe you all can get together when you retire in 25 years years from now. 

Study: Homeowner Wealth Is 40 Times Higher Than Renters

Property appreciation has surged along with home prices in the last decade, giving most homeowners more than $100,000 in equity over that time period and lending further evidence that homeownership is an important avenue to build household wealth.

Middle-income homeowners have seen their properties appreciate by 68% since 2012, accumulating $122,100 in wealth, according to a new report from the National Association of REALTORS® released during the 2023 REALTOR® Broker Summit. Low-income homeowners who earn less than 80% of their area’s median income saw $98,900 in equity gains in the same time period, while upper-income households who earn more than 200% of their area’s median income accrued $150,800 in equity, according to NAR’s report, “Wealth Gains by Income and Racial/Ethnic Group.”

“This analysis shows how homeownership is a catalyst for building wealth for people from all walks of life,” says NAR Chief Economist Lawrence Yun. “A monthly mortgage payment is often considered a forced savings account that helps homeowners build a net worth about 40 times higher than that of a renter.”

Along with these wealth gains, homeowners also saw their debt drop by 21% over the last decade, the report shows. In recent years, many homeowners were able to refinance their mortgages and secure an interest rate below 4%. And because of those smaller monthly payments, many homeowners have paid off an even larger amount of their mortgage, the report notes.

 

https://www.nar.realtor/magazine/real-estate-news/study-homeowner-wealth-is-40-times-higher-than-renters#:~:text=“A monthly mortgage payment is,than that of a renter.”

40 times???! Ouch!!  

[seafoam1 2,803]

4 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Study: Homeowner Wealth Is 40 Times Higher Than Renters

Property appreciation has surged along with home prices in the last decade, giving most homeowners more than $100,000 in equity over that time period and lending further evidence that homeownership is an important avenue to build household wealth.

Middle-income homeowners have seen their properties appreciate by 68% since 2012, accumulating $122,100 in wealth, according to a new report from the National Association of REALTORS® released during the 2023 REALTOR® Broker Summit. Low-income homeowners who earn less than 80% of their area’s median income saw $98,900 in equity gains in the same time period, while upper-income households who earn more than 200% of their area’s median income accrued $150,800 in equity, according to NAR’s report, “Wealth Gains by Income and Racial/Ethnic Group.”

“This analysis shows how homeownership is a catalyst for building wealth for people from all walks of life,” says NAR Chief Economist Lawrence Yun. “A monthly mortgage payment is often considered a forced savings account that helps homeowners build a net worth about 40 times higher than that of a renter.”

Along with these wealth gains, homeowners also saw their debt drop by 21% over the last decade, the report shows. In recent years, many homeowners were able to refinance their mortgages and secure an interest rate below 4%. And because of those smaller monthly payments, many homeowners have paid off an even larger amount of their mortgage, the report notes.

 

https://www.nar.realtor/magazine/real-estate-news/study-homeowner-wealth-is-40-times-higher-than-renters#:~:text=“A monthly mortgage payment is,than that of a renter.”

40 times???! Ouch!!  

Of course that doesn't apply to everybody dumb ass. Definitely not you vs. me. 

By your stupid logic, if I go out and buy a home today I'm instantly 40x wealthier than I was yesterday. 

Can't make this shlt up. 

[Mookz 1,338]

31 minutes ago, edjr said:

I rent properties I own, 

white privilege? yay or nay

FACT: Del Walmsley says buying rental properties is the key to generating wealth.

 

[nobody 2,567]

Tha is for the thread.  It was really getting unwieldy being all contained in the net worth thread.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

26 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Of course that doesn't apply to everybody dumb ass. Definitely not you vs. me. 

By your stupid logic, if I go out and buy a home today I'm instantly 40x wealthier than I was yesterday. 

Can't make this shlt up. 

Call me dumb, but if I can put myself in the group with 40x net worth, on average, I’m probably gonna go ahead and do that

[seafoam1 2,803]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

Call me dumb, but if I can put myself in the group with 40x net worth, on average, I’m probably gonna go ahead and do that

Sure I'll go buy a house today and be automatically 40x richer than yesterday. 

What an idiot. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

I broke peefoam

[seafoam1 2,803]

3 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I broke peefoam

I think you broke yourself. 

Anyone who thinks a person is 40x wealthier by simply buying a home is really kind of dumb.

[seafoam1 2,803]

8 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I broke peefoam

Do the math for everyone. 

If you have $1M in the bank today, and you spend $700,000 on home tomorrow, how does your net worth magically become $40M the next day?

[cmh6476 1,010]

Living rent free in peafoam's head and owning weepaws thread after thread

[iam90sbaby 2,490]

Tims an actual creep yikes dude 

[seafoam1 2,803]

6 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

Living rent free in peafoam's head and owning weepaws thread after thread

These are the goals you personally set out for in life. And you even fail at that. 

[Alias Detective 1,389]

24 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Do the math for everyone. 

If you have $1M in the bank today, and you spend $700,000 on home tomorrow, how does your net worth magically become $40M the next day?

On average dip . :dipshit:

[Hardcore troubadour 14,946]

44 minutes ago, nobody said:

Tha is for the thread.  It was really getting unwieldy being all contained in the net worth thread.

It was? 

[Raven Fan 362]

10 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

On average dip . :dipshit:

He’s on your team.  And not even closest to the dumbest one.

Cultisr…SMH

[iam90sbaby 2,490]

30 minutes ago, Raven Fan said:

He’s on your team.  And not even closest to the dumbest one.

Cultisr…SMH

There's someone on your team who thought football helmets were made of metal and were on a football forum. It doesn't get any dumber than that.

[Raven Fan 362]

14 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

There's someone on your team who thought football helmets were made of metal and were on a football forum. It doesn't get any dumber than that.

Nah.  Thinking renting = owning is about as dumb as one can get.

Or thinking the 2020 election was stolen.

Team Red is the gathering spot for this country's moron and racist brigaid.

Why do you think you fit in so well boyo?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,241]

I own 3, live in one, rent one, and have nothing going on with the 3rd.  

the third is 15 acres that has a mobile home on it, that I am contemplation developing, potential into a multi-family property or building my dream home, can't decide

 

[seafoam1 2,803]

1 hour ago, Alias Detective said:

On average dip . :dipshit:

Well, if you own a home and have a net worth of 40x what my net worth is,  God bless you for you near $100M net worth. I'm sure you earned it. 

[seafoam1 2,803]

33 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

I own 3, live in one, rent one, and have nothing going on with the 3rd.  

the third is 15 acres that has a mobile home on it, that I am contemplation developing, potential into a multi-family property or building my dream home, can't decide

 

What state? I have a brother who he and his transitioned from their house to mobile home living some years ago. They had a home in Illinois and in the summers would take their mobile home up to Minnesota for hunting and stuff. They finally sold their home and mobiled it out to California and settled there.

[seafoam1 2,803]

10 hours ago, Raven Fan said:

Nah.  Thinking renting = owning is about as dumb as one can get.

Or thinking the 2020 election was stolen.

Team Red is the gathering spot for this country's moron and racist brigaid.

Why do you think you fit in so well boyo?

 

 

  10 hours ago, Raven Fan said:

There is ZERO ambiguity Mr needs to steal $7 streams.

Owning is ALWAYS a better long term financial decision than renting.  I ran the numbers for you earlier.

You no understand?



@Alias Detective @IGotWorms  @Raven Fan@thegeneral @nobody 

 

Courtesy of Horseman...

Well dont just take my word for it.

Warren Buffett: 

  Quote

All things considered, the third best investment I ever made was the purchase of my home, though I would have made far more money had I instead rented and used the purchase money to buy stocks.

John Bogle explains why the numbers you ran earlier are wrong:

  Quote

The mortgage is supposed to be dramatically lower than rent. That’s because the landlord has to pay all those other expenses. A real estate investor expects about 45 percent of gross rent to go toward non-mortgage expenses. In order to compare apples to apples, multiply your prospective principal and interest payment on a 30-year mortgage by 1.8. If renting a comparable home is much less than that figure, there is a very good chance you will be better off renting unless you are in the home for a very long time. 

Don Wede

  Quote

Buying a house is like putting all of your money into one big investment, but sometimes, it’s smarter to spread that money around. Renting lets you do that. It’s like choosing to invest in different stocks instead of putting everything into one. Plus, no headaches about fixing the leaky faucet — that’s someone else’s job when you rent. Case in point- Home prices increased around 4.8% in 2023, per S&P Global, while the S&P 500 increased over 24% in the same period, according to Visual Capitalist.

Dave Ramsey 

  Quote

The rent-versus-buy debate is nothing new. Here’s the thing I want you to remember, though: Whether it’s better to rent or buy is up to you (as long as your finances are in order) because buying and renting both have pros and cons for investing.  

I could go on and on. Maybe you can find one respected person in the investment community that says "Owning is always a better long term finance decision than renting."? 

You're in finance maybe you have peers that have an opinion. Maybe ask Nancy in nursing what she thinks.  

[seafoam1 2,803]

[thegeneral 2,913]

7 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

 

 

  10 hours ago, Raven Fan said:

There is ZERO ambiguity Mr needs to steal $7 streams.

Owning is ALWAYS a better long term financial decision than renting.  I ran the numbers for you earlier.

You no understand?



@Alias Detective @IGotWorms  @Raven Fan@thegeneral @nobody 

 

Courtesy of Horseman...

Well dont just take my word for it.

Warren Buffett: 

  Quote

All things considered, the third best investment I ever made was the purchase of my home, though I would have made far more money had I instead rented and used the purchase money to buy stocks.

John Bogle explains why the numbers you ran earlier are wrong:

  Quote

The mortgage is supposed to be dramatically lower than rent. That’s because the landlord has to pay all those other expenses. A real estate investor expects about 45 percent of gross rent to go toward non-mortgage expenses. In order to compare apples to apples, multiply your prospective principal and interest payment on a 30-year mortgage by 1.8. If renting a comparable home is much less than that figure, there is a very good chance you will be better off renting unless you are in the home for a very long time. 

Don Wede

  Quote

Buying a house is like putting all of your money into one big investment, but sometimes, it’s smarter to spread that money around. Renting lets you do that. It’s like choosing to invest in different stocks instead of putting everything into one. Plus, no headaches about fixing the leaky faucet — that’s someone else’s job when you rent. Case in point- Home prices increased around 4.8% in 2023, per S&P Global, while the S&P 500 increased over 24% in the same period, according to Visual Capitalist.

Dave Ramsey 

  Quote

The rent-versus-buy debate is nothing new. Here’s the thing I want you to remember, though: Whether it’s better to rent or buy is up to you (as long as your finances are in order) because buying and renting both have pros and cons for investing.  

I could go on and on. Maybe you can find one respected person in the investment community that says "Owning is always a better long term finance decision than renting."? 

You're in finance maybe you have peers that have an opinion. Maybe ask Nancy in nursing what she thinks.  

Not sure why you are you tagging me in your little knitting circle fight. But, renting versus buying in my instance isn’t even close. Buying was much, much better. YMMV. 

I do think the Buffet quote for instance is being a bit misinterpreted. Is he talking the principal investment? Your monthly nut is still going out the door either way. He also may be referring to his situation. Buying in my instance crushed putting that in the stock market maybe not so much in Omaha

A few other factors and some of these are related to my situation - Rent would be much more expensive in my hood than what my mortgage is. Would have to live out in the sticks, would have to deal with a landlord at be at their whims, having to move and resettle everything, not being able to do stuff to my house as I like, etc. 

[seafoam1 2,803]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

Not sure why you are you tagging me in your little knitting circle fight. But, renting versus buying in my instance isn’t even close. Buying was much, much better. YMMV. 

I do think the Buffet quote for instance is being a bit misinterpreted. Is he talking the principal investment? Your monthly nut is still going out the door either way. He also may be referring to his situation. Buying in my instance crushed putting that in the stock market maybe not so much in Omaha

A few other factors and some of these are related to my situation - Rent would be much more expensive in my hood than what my mortgage is. Would have to live out in the sticks, would have to deal with a landlord at be at their whims, having to move and resettle everything, not being able to do stuff to my house as I like, etc. 

Whatever works for you is my take. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,839]

22 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

Hey, that’s no way to talk about @seafoam1 !

That's no way to talk about your co-worker!

[Horseman 2,367]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

Not sure why you are you tagging me in your little knitting circle fight. But, renting versus buying in my instance isn’t even close. Buying was much, much better. YMMV. 

I do think the Buffet quote for instance is being a bit misinterpreted. Is he talking the principal investment? Your monthly nut is still going out the door either way. He also may be referring to his situation. Buying in my instance crushed putting that in the stock market maybe not so much in Omaha

A few other factors and some of these are related to my situation - Rent would be much more expensive in my hood than what my mortgage is. Would have to live out in the sticks, would have to deal with a landlord at be at their whims, having to move and resettle everything, not being able to do stuff to my house as I like, etc. 

 Of course he was referring to his situation.  He's clearly talking about himself there.  Yes his principal investment of $31,500.  Go ahead and plug $31,500 into a compound interest calculator for 50+ years and I'm guessing that holds true in the majority of cases.

Rent is always (usually) higher than a mortgage. And it's not a 1:1 comparison whether you should buy or rent.  Let me quote that part again.

Quote

The mortgage is supposed to be dramatically lower than rent. That’s because the landlord has to pay all those other expenses. A real estate investor expects about 45 percent of gross rent to go toward non-mortgage expenses. In order to compare apples to apples, multiply your prospective principal and interest payment on a 30-year mortgage by 1.8. If renting a comparable home is much less than that figure, there is a very good chance you will be better off renting unless you are in the home for a very long time.

The part most people misinterpret about the Buffett quote is that he's actually defending home ownership.  It was in a 2010 letter to shareholders and the paragraph begins with

Quote

Home ownership makes sense for most Americans, particularly at today’s lower prices and bargain interest rates.

But this was right after the housing crisis and he warns that 

Quote

But a house can be a nightmare if the buyer’s eyes are bigger than his wallet and if a lender – often protected by a government guarantee – facilitates his fantasy. Our country’s social goal should not be to put families into the house of their dreams, but rather to put them into a house they can afford.

THE POINT is that it Rent vs. Buy depends on many factors, some of which don't have dollars and cents assigned to them.  Some idiot in the other thread claimed that "owning is ALWAYS a better long term financial decision than renting".  That's just not true.  Financially alone, Buffett would have made more money had he rented.  But there are are few good rules of thumb:

- You shouldn't buy a home more expensive than you can afford. Generally less than 3x your gross annual income.

- Generally it's better to rent in high cost of living areas and buy in low cost of living areas.  Price to rent ratio.

- Generally it's better to rent if you aren't going to be in the home 5 years or more.

- Generally it's better to rent when interest rates are high, and visa versa.

- What is the likelihood that the value of the house in your area rises, compared to inflation or compared to alternate investments?

- Generally it's better to rent if you already have substantial debt.

 

 

[thegeneral 2,913]

13 minutes ago, Horseman said:

 Of course he was referring to his situation.  He's clearly talking about himself there.  Yes his principal investment of $31,500.  Go ahead and plug $31,500 into a compound interest calculator for 50+ years and I'm guessing that holds true in the majority of cases.

Rent is always (usually) higher than a mortgage. And it's not a 1:1 comparison whether you should buy or rent.  Let me quote that part again.

The part most people misinterpret about the Buffett quote is that he's actually defending home ownership.  It was in a 2010 letter to shareholders and the paragraph begins with

But this was right after the housing crisis and he warns that 

THE POINT is that it Rent vs. Buy depends on many factors, some of which don't have dollars and cents assigned to them.  Some idiot in the other thread claimed that "owning is ALWAYS a better long term financial decision than renting".  That's just not true.  Financially alone, Buffett would have made more money had he rented.  But there are are few good rules of thumb:

- You shouldn't buy a home more expensive than you can afford. Generally less than 3x your gross annual income.

- Generally it's better to rent in high cost of living areas and buy in low cost of living areas.  Price to rent ratio.

- Generally it's better to rent if you aren't going to be in the home 5 years or more.

- Generally it's better to rent when interest rates are high, and visa versa.

- What is the likelihood that the value of the house in your area rises, compared to inflation or compared to alternate investments?

- Generally it's better to rent if you already have substantial debt.

 

 

Putting money into something is the important factor. I haven’t really followed this convo and don’t really care to.

I would say I would like to see the numbers of renters who actually saved and chose to invest their down payments in the market rather than buy a house overall. I’d guess most aren’t this disciplined or weren’t able to get into a home for whatever reason. 

In any case I would much rather hear about people who have saved and live well no matter how they did it rather than hear about broke people or folks who have for whatever reason not been able to save.

[nobody 2,567]

Buffet... Third best investment he ever made.  Keep in mind this man has made billions and billions of dollars and routinely shafts companies in sweetheart deals when he buys corporate bonds and stock.  And his house was still the third best investment.  Also keep in mind, he's likely just looking solely at ROI and not factoring in no matter what, he'd still have to pay for somewhere to live.

He once said that if only had to invest 500k a year, he'd make 50% return per year.  You wouldn't make 50% per year.  And before I have to hear how much someone made in any one year, please go look up what per year means.

 

[nobody 2,567]

Bogle...

The key point is "comparable place"

You're renting some shìtty apartment and comparing that to property taxes and maintenance of houses in your neighborhood.  Those aren't comparable.  You get more quality from a single family residence than you get from an apartment of similar rent to mortgage in both square footage and just overall quality of living.

[nobody 2,567]

Wede ...

Nothing new here.  You may want to diversify.  Sure.  He also points to a single year as an example of stock outpacing real estate.  That's immaterial. 

This is the weakest one so far.  All it says is it's not that big of a deal which is right in some cases.

[nobody 2,567]

Ramsey...

Yes, it's up to the person to rent or buy.  We already know that.  In your case I'm 100% sure it's better to rent than buy.  That way when your neighbors figure out what a jackass you are, you can just move.

[nobody 2,567]

In conclusion, it was smart to try and lean on people smarter than yourself for opinions since you aren't capable of doing it yourself, but you took them out of context and misappropriated them in many cases.