Timmy’s thread for general discussion

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

23 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Joe Biden is dividing the country much more than the media divided the country under Trump. You, my friend, are the one dividing the country and Joe Biden is the one who defied the Supreme Court and the constitution of the United States.   Don’t be afraid to see what you see.

I’m not afraid to see what I see. I’m afraid to see what YOU see. 

[jonmx 2,424]

5 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Plus, there were no victims, every loan was paid back, nobody lost any money, so this money is going into the general fund of New York. this amount to the government stealing money from the private citizen who is running for president. It is part of the Democrats plan to bankrupt Donald Trump.

And every bank in New York would line up to loan Trump money.  And the rate they charge Trump was the same they would charge any whale customer.   Trump did not recieve any discount, which was the supposed damage that was claimed.

This case is nothing but legalized robbery to the tune of a half billion dollars.  

[MDC 7,144]

26 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Lol if I had to pay what you call “real wages” (I would call them government regulated wages) it would cost me personally a few hundred more a year. When I employ day laborers, rarely, it’s out of expediency, not cost. 

It wouldn’t cost me much personally but it would cost all Americans plenty if we somehow removed undocumented immigrants. The most hurt would likely be restaurants, small businesses and agriculture. Prices would soar. The economy would be severely hurt. 

Maybe costs should be higher to support a US worker wage? 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

12 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Anything more than $1 is too much.  What Trump did is what every real estate investor has done, provide the bank with an estimate of their financial state.  A judge relying solely on a county tax assessment to determine that Trump misrepresented the value is asinine.  Trump provided an accurate valuation that every real estate appraiser agrees was reasonable. And you absolutely know this, but yet you say a $200 million is a reasonable ruling.   You are incapable of honest logical unbiased reasoning.  

You didn’t answer the question. I will accept the ruling of the appeals court. If they agree with your assessment they will toss the case out and I will agree that you were correct. If they do not will you concede that this was a legitimate case? 

As far as what I know personally: yes I have seen real estate developers and landlords inflate values. Yes it’s a common practice. But I’ve never seen someone do it to the extent that Trump reportedly did. That’s why I don’t just dismiss it. 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

1 minute ago, MDC said:

Maybe costs should be higher to support a US worker wage? 

Well the problem with that, in a capitalist system, is when you attempt it you get a black market. And so here we are. Ever since Karl Marx socialists have struggled attempting to force human beings to pay more in order to to create what they think will be a fairer system for all. But it can’t be done. This incidentally is the same problem with the Green New Deal. You can’t punish people and try to force them into good behavior. 

[jonmx 2,424]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

You didn’t answer the question. I will accept the ruling of the appeals court. If they agree with your assessment they will toss the case out and I will agree that you were correct. If they do not will you concede that this was a legitimate case? 

As far as what I know personally: yes I have seen real estate developers and landlords inflate values. Yes it’s a common practice. But I’ve never seen someone do it to the extent that Trump reportedly did. That’s why I don’t just dismiss it. 

 

Tim, I am complete unswayed by what someone in authority says.   I look at the facts of the case (regardless of the people involved) and determine if it is fair and just.   Nothing what any court says changes the fact that there was no misrepresentation of wealth, no law was broke, and not one person was harmed.  

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

6 minutes ago, jonmx said:

And every bank in New York would line up to loan Trump money.  And the rate they charge Trump was the same they would charge any whale customer.   Trump did not recieve any discount, which was the supposed damage that was claimed.

This case is nothing but legalized robbery to the tune of a half billion dollars.  

Look there are laws on the books which say you can’t lie to banks. I think these laws are good for us and within reason they should be prosecuted. If you tell a bank that a 5 million dollar property is worth 6 million, that should (and is) let go. If you tell a bank that a 5 million dollar property is worth 30 million then I think you should be prosecuted. Even if there are no victims. 

[MDC 7,144]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well the problem with that, in a capitalist system, is when you attempt it you get a black market. And so here we are. Ever since Karl Marx socialists have struggled attempting to force human beings to pay more in order to to create what they think will be a fairer system for all. But it can’t be done. This incidentally is the same problem with the Green New Deal. You can’t punish people and try to force them into good behavior. 

I’d argue that people like yourself, who knowingly hire illegals because it’s cheaper or more convenient, are the ones creating the black market. I’ve hired contractors for a lot of jobs over the years and never even considered hiring illegal labor. 

[jonnyutah 250]

57 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Damn you should be. It’s terrible. You can read about it here: 

https://eji.org/issues/prison-conditions/

This is one area where the Soros folks are really fighting the good fight. We have got to have major prison and judicial reform in this country. 

We should be locking up three times as many people. 

Build build build baby!!! 

Thats actually what they should build on the border. From a distance you wouldnt know if prisoners were escaping or invaders were climbing over. Just shoot to kill and after about ten tries either way, life is so much better here. 

Nobody trying to get in, no prisoners getting out. 

Easy peasy. 

 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

10 minutes ago, MDC said:

I’d argue that people like yourself, who knowingly hire illegals because it’s cheaper or more convenient, are the ones creating the black market. I’ve hired contractors for a lot of jobs over the years and never even considered hiring illegal labor. 

No offense but I think you’re pretty naive if you think the contractors you’re hiring aren’t using undocumented laborers. The vast majority do. That’s the only way they can keep their prices competitive. 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

9 minutes ago, jonnyutah said:

We should be locking up three times as many people. 

Build build build baby!!! 

Thats actually what they should build on the border. From a distance you wouldnt know if prisoners were escaping or invaders were climbing over. Just shoot to kill and after about ten tries either way, life is so much better here. 

Nobody trying to get in, no prisoners getting out. 

Easy peasy. 

 

Well I guess this all depends on what you’re trying to achieve. I imagine you would have been very comfortable living in the old East Berlin. 

[Strike 5,215]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No offense but I think you’re pretty naive if you think the contractors you’re hiring aren’t using undocumented laborers. The vast majority do. That’s the only way they can keep their prices competitive. 

And those contractors are breaking the law, as are you.  Funny how you pick and choose who you think should be prosecuted based on politics......

[MDC 7,144]

17 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No offense but I think you’re pretty naive if you think the contractors you’re hiring aren’t using undocumented laborers. The vast majority do. That’s the only way they can keep their prices competitive. 

I said “knowingly.” It’s possible, maybe even probable that a contractor I’ve hired used undocumented labor. I’d argue that’s on them, just like you knowingly hiring undocumented workers out of convenience is on you. 

[seafoam1 2,803]

17 minutes ago, Strike said:

And those contractors are breaking the law, as are you.  Funny how you pick and choose who you think should be prosecuted based on politics......

I guess he thinks employees across America should be paid according to the business' profit margins that they work for.. And nothing else. Not sure how that structure would work. 

So if for a week, a business doesn't turn a profit, employees get nothing come payday. 

[jonnyutah 250]

26 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well I guess this all depends on what you’re trying to achieve. I imagine you would have been very comfortable living in the old East Berlin. 

I like bread. Also how many migrants tried to get into east berlin? 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

29 minutes ago, Strike said:

And those contractors are breaking the law, as are you.  Funny how you pick and choose who you think should be prosecuted based on politics......

Not politics. Common sense. If a contractor is paying some undocumented laborers a little under the minimum wage, leave them alone. If they’re paying them pennies, the equivalent of slave labor, prosecute. Same logic as with the Trump fraud. If it’s blatant and excessive that’s when the law should step in. This isn’t difficult. 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

22 minutes ago, MDC said:

I said “knowingly.” It’s possible, maybe even probable that a contractor I’ve hired used undocumented labor. I’d argue that’s on them, just like you knowingly hiring undocumented workers out of convenience is on you. 

Whether it’s “on me” or not, what difference? It’s capitalism. Lay it on me if you want. Or lay it on consumers who naturally want to pay less. 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

9 minutes ago, jonnyutah said:

I like bread. Also how many migrants tried to get into east berlin? 

Not too many. And if we impose the all powerful state you apparently desire here not too many will want to come here either. Congrats! 

[MDC 7,144]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Whether it’s “on me” or not, what difference? It’s capitalism. Lay it on me if you want. Or lay it on consumers who naturally want to pay less. 

It’s also illegal and suppresses US wages, in addition to exploiting illegal workers in a lot of cases.  

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

1 minute ago, MDC said:

It’s also illegal and suppresses US wages, in addition to exploiting illegal workers in a lot of cases.  

It doesn’t suppress US wages. It actually increases them. And it increases employment and prosperity because when consumers have more money due to what they’ve saved, they spend it elsewhere. 

Your other two points are correct: it’s illegal and it can often lead to exploitation. The obvious way to solve both issues is to make these folks legal. Allow exceptions to the minimum wage system, and regulate all undocumented immigrants and provide them legal protections. This has been obvious for years but our collective xenophobia, much worse now in the era of Trump, will not allow common sense to prevail. 

[jonmx 2,424]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Look there are laws on the books which say you can’t lie to banks. I think these laws are good for us and within reason they should be prosecuted. If you tell a bank that a 5 million dollar property is worth 6 million, that should (and is) let go. If you tell a bank that a 5 million dollar property is worth 30 million then I think you should be prosecuted. Even if there are no victims. 

You have zero idea what you are talking about.  First off, Trump valued his property fairly, get that through your fat head. Do you think some 20 year old tax assessment is better than numerous real estate appraisals by proffesional appraisers?  Seriously, stop acting dumb, you know better.  How is relying on real appraised values fraud?

Secondly, the law was not even about banks.The law utilized Section 63 (12) which gives broad powers to an Attorney General to go after people who defrauded the public.  It gives the attorney power to go after fraudulent business who cheated the public out of money.  The stupid theory here is somehow the public was cheated because Trump got a lower interest than the public and somehow collecting $454 million will serve as restitution.   The banks said Trump was given the standard rate given to the mega wealthy, which they said Trump surely was.

The fraud in this case was by the Trump-hating district attorney and the judge.   Stop playing stupid.

[Maximum Overkill 1,741]

 

 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

4 minutes ago, jonmx said:

You have zero idea what you are talking about.  First off, Trump valued his property fairly, get that through your fat head. Do you think some 20 year old tax assessment is better than numerous real estate appraisals by proffesional appraisers?  Seriously, stop acting dumb, you know better.  How is relying on real appraised values fraud?

Secondly, the law was not even about banks.The law utilized Section 63 (12) which gives broad powers to an Attorney General to go after people who defrauded the public.  It gives the attorney power to go after fraudulent business who cheated the public out of money.  The stupid theory here is somehow the public was cheated because Trump got a lower interest than the public and somehow collecting $454 million will serve as restitution.   The banks said Trump was given the standard rate given to the mega wealthy, which they said Trump surely was.

The fraud in this case was by the Trump-hating district attorney and the judge.   Stop playing stupid.

If you’re correct about this the appeals court will throw the case out. We’ll see. But the judge, and several legal experts I have listened to, have dismissed your points here which were largely made by Trump’s attorneys. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

11 minutes ago, jonmx said:

You have zero idea what you are talking about.  First off, Trump valued his property fairly, get that through your fat head. Do you think some 20 year old tax assessment is better than numerous real estate appraisals by proffesional appraisers?  Seriously, stop acting dumb, you know better.  How is relying on real appraised values fraud?

Secondly, the law was not even about banks.The law utilized Section 63 (12) which gives broad powers to an Attorney General to go after people who defrauded the public.  It gives the attorney power to go after fraudulent business who cheated the public out of money.  The stupid theory here is somehow the public was cheated because Trump got a lower interest than the public and somehow collecting $454 million will serve as restitution.   The banks said Trump was given the standard rate given to the mega wealthy, which they said Trump surely was.

The fraud in this case was by the Trump-hating district attorney and the judge.   Stop playing stupid.

And you wonder why reasonable discussions can't be held. Try not to be so angrily condescending and insulting in each post.

[Maximum Overkill 1,741]

Just now, Pimpadeaux said:

And you wonder why reasonable discussions can't be held. Try not to be so angrily condescending and insulting in each post

Another hypocritical statement. 

How many times have you blasted and goofed on people here?? Everyday? 

[MDC 7,144]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

It doesn’t suppress US wages. It actually increases them. And it increases employment and prosperity because when consumers have more money due to what they’ve saved, they spend it elsewhere. 

Your other two points are correct: it’s illegal and it can often lead to exploitation. The obvious way to solve both issues is to make these folks legal. Allow exceptions to the minimum wage system, and regulate all undocumented immigrants and provide them legal protections. This has been obvious for years but our collective xenophobia, much worse now in the era of Trump, will not allow common sense to prevail. 

Of course it reduces US wages. The whole reason businesses hire illegals is that they’re willing to do a job at below market rate with little to no protections. Every job being done by an illegal here could be done by a US worker at a US rate.

Your point about exceptions to the minimum wage sounds like the type of malarkey I’d expect from a libertarian think tank. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,741]

 

 

 

[jonmx 2,424]

19 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

If you’re correct about this the appeals court will throw the case out. We’ll see. But the judge, and several legal experts I have listened to, have dismissed your points here which were largely made by Trump’s attorneys. 

You have been lied to by these same experts a dozen times.   The case will get thrown out, but they are using it to damage Trump in the meantime.    You have zero issues with government abusing their power.  You don't care if conservatives get their lives destroyed in having to fight the corrupt monster in politically driven cases. 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

11 minutes ago, MDC said:

Of course it reduces US wages. The whole reason businesses hire illegals is that they’re willing to do a job at below market rate with little to no protections. Every job being done by an illegal here could be done by a US worker at a US rate.

Your point about exceptions to the minimum wage sounds like the type of malarkey I’d expect from a libertarian think tank. 

Thank you. I enjoy Reason magazine and the Cato Institute. If I sound like them that’s quite the compliment. 

[jonmx 2,424]

15 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

And you wonder why reasonable discussions can't be held. Try not to be so angrily condescending and insulting in each post.

Tim can be one of the most condescending posters there is.  

[MDC 7,144]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Thank you. I enjoy Reason magazine and the Cato Institute. If I sound like them that’s quite the compliment. 

They also like the idea of importing low wage workers to pay less for labor. Congrats?

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

52 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Another hypocritical statement. 

How many times have you blasted and goofed on people here?? Everyday? 

All the time, but I've written plenty of thoughtful, non-insulting posts in debates as well. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

2 hours ago, MDC said:

I’d argue that people like yourself, who knowingly hire illegals because it’s cheaper or more convenient, are the ones creating the black market. I’ve hired contractors for a lot of jobs over the years and never even considered hiring illegal labor. 

 

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

No offense but I think you’re pretty naive if you think the contractors you’re hiring aren’t using undocumented laborers. The vast majority do. That’s the only way they can keep their prices competitive. 

If only the general contractor wasn't forced to use union labor..........

[jonmx 2,424]

26 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

All the time, but I've written plenty of thoughtful, non-insulting posts in debates as well. 

My comments are pact with tons of thoughtful comments.   However our corrupt media institutions, social media, and government agencies have all colluded to brainwash the weak, so often I mist use a hammer to attempt to penstrate such thick skulls.   

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

43 minutes ago, jonmx said:

My comments are pact with tons of thoughtful comments.   However our corrupt media institutions, social media, and government agencies have all colluded to brainwash the weak, so often I mist use a hammer to attempt to penstrate such thick skulls.   

Thanks but I will decline the offer of being penstrated by you. 
 

In a related topic after I looked it up last night I discovered that Gender Queer is available on Kindle for free. So now I plan to read it. I will keep you guys updated. 

[jonnyutah 250]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not too many. And if we impose the all powerful state you apparently desire here not too many will want to come here either. Congrats! 

All powerful? We already put people in prison.

Because of the prison shortage, well and soros,  we let criminals go free.

Locking up criminals makes the state all powerful in your world? Weird. 

 

[Pimpadeaux 2,404]

1 hour ago, jonmx said:

However our corrupt media institutions, social media, and government agencies have all colluded to brainwash the weak, so often I mist use a hammer to attempt to penstrate such thick skulls.   

I do not share this catastrophized paranoia in regard to all these entities working together to brainwash people. That would require unity, which we certainly don't have on any level regarding this playing field.

Sure, the media has become polarized and biased, and that's a shame. They pander to what their audiences want to hear. Anyone on either side of the political spectrum who blindly buys into it is weak-minded. 

[Baker Boy 1,688]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Look there are laws on the books which say you can’t lie to banks. I think these laws are good for us and within reason they should be prosecuted. If you tell a bank that a 5 million dollar property is worth 6 million, that should (and is) let go. If you tell a bank that a 5 million dollar property is worth 30 million then I think you should be prosecuted. Even if there are no victims. 

Link to where Trump did this.
 

This case was based on tax assessments from years ago. Tax evaluations are always lower than market value. Don’t you think the banks do their own evaluation? I guess you never bought any property. There are no damages to anyone, all loans were paid back in full on time, there no victims. I think Biden‘s student loan forgiveness is a is a real and bigger crime.

 

[jonmx 2,424]

1 hour ago, Pimpadeaux said:

I do not share this catastrophized paranoia in regard to all these entities working together to brainwash people. That would require unity, which we certainly don't have on any level regarding this playing field.

Sure, the media has become polarized and biased, and that's a shame. They pander to what their audiences want to hear. Anyone on either side of the political spectrum who blindly buys into it is weak-minded. 

Lol...no they absolutely do not pander to what their audience wants to hear.  If they did they would not have single digit approval ratings.   If they did they would not fire their most popular reporters when they get off the plantation.   We know for a an absolute indisputable fact our government feeds the media and social media guidelines and information to spin stories and apply censorship.   And they all march in lockstep to those orders. 

I know you don't believe any of that, but what if everything I said is true?  Would you feel betrayed?   Would you still trust those bastards?  Or is your hatred for the other side so great thst you really don't care we are all being manipulated by rich elitist authoritarian bastards who are playing us against each other on unimportant wedge issues while they rob us blind and empower themselves.   

[Fnord 2,051]

58 minutes ago, jonmx said:

 what if everything I said is true?  Would you feel betrayed?   Would you still trust those bastards?  Or is your hatred for the other side so great thst you really don't care we are all being manipulated by rich elitist authoritarian bastards who are playing us against each other on unimportant wedge issues while they rob us blind and empower themselves.   

This guy will vote for Donald Trump. Anyone else see the disconnect?