DEI is in trouble

[kilroy69 1,215]

And the DEI advocates KNOW it. If trump is elected I could see the SCOTUS taking up workplace dei and equating it to affirmative action by another name and then outlawing it. DEI jobs fell 44% in 2023 and continue to crater.

https://techcrunch.com/2024/06/23/silicon-valley-leaders-are-once-again-declaring-dei-bad-and-meritocracy-good-but-theyre-wrong/#comments

 

Who’s afraid of the Big Bad DEI? The acronym is near-poisonous now — a word that creates almost instant tension between those who embrace it and those who want it dead.

A prime example of this divide was the response to startup Scale AI founder Alexandr Wang’s post on X last week. He wrote about moving away from DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) to instead embrace “MEI” — merit, excellence, and intelligence. 

“Scale is a meritocracy, and we must always remain one,” Wang wrote. “It’s a big deal whenever we invite someone to join our mission, and those decisions have never been swayed by orthodoxy or virtue signaling or whatever the current thing is.”

The commenters on X — which included Elon Musk, Palmer Luckey, and Brian Armstrong — were thrilled. On LinkedIn, however, the startup community gave a less-than-enthusiastic response. Those commenters pointed out that Wang’s post made it seem as if “meritocracy” was the definitive benchmark to find qualified hiring candidates — without taking into consideration that the idea of meritocracy is itself subjective. In the days that have followed the post, more and more people have shared their thoughts and what Wang’s comments reveal about the current state of DEI in tech. 

“The post is misguided because people who support the meritocracy argument are ignoring the structural reasons some groups are more likely to outperform others,” Mutale Nkonde, a founder working in AI policy, told TechCrunch. ”We all want the best people for the job, and there is data to prove that diverse teams are more effective.” 

Emily Witko, an HR professional at AI startup Hugging Face, told TechCrunch that the post was a “dangerous oversimplification,” but that it received so much attention on X because it “openly expressed sentiments that are not always expressed publicly and the audience there is hungry to attack DEI.” Wang’s MEI thought “makes it so easy to refute or criticize any conversations regarding the importance of acknowledging underrepresentation in tech,” she continued.  

But Wang is far from the only Silicon Valley insider to attack DEI in recent months. He joins a chorus of those who feel that DEI programs implemented at businesses over the past several years, peaking with the Black Lives Matter movement, caused a backslide in corporate profitability — and that a return to “meritocratic principles” is overdue. Indeed, much of the tech industry has worked to dismantle recruitment programs that considered candidates who, under previous hiring regimes, were often overlooked in the hiring process. 

 

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Seeking to make a change, in 2020, many organizations and power players came together to promise more of a focus on DEI, which, contrary to the mainstream discussion, is not simply about hiring someone based on the color of their skin but is about ensuring qualified people from all walks of life — regardless of skin, gender, or ethnic background — are better represented and included in recruitment funnels. It’s also about taking a look at disparities and pipeline issues, analyzing the reasoning behind why certain candidates are constantly overlooked in a hiring process. 

In 2023, the U.S. data industry saw new women recruit levels drop by two-thirds, from 36% in 2022 to just 12%, according to a report from HR staffing firm Harnham. Meanwhile, the percentage of Black, Indigenous, and professionals of color in VP or above data roles stood at just 38% in 2022. 

Alexandr Wang (pictured above) caused a stir on social media when he posted about meritocracy in tech on X. Image Credits: Drew Angerer / Staff / Getty Images

DEI-related job listings have also fallen out of favor, declining 44% in 2023, according to data from the job site Indeed. In the AI industry, a recent Deloitte survey of women found that over half said they ended up leaving at least one employer because of how men and women were treated differently, while 73% considered leaving the tech industry altogether due to unequal pay and an inability to advance in their careers. 

Yet, for an industry that prides itself on being data-driven, Silicon Valley cannot let the idea of a meritocracy go — despite all the data and research showing how such thinking is just a belief system and one that can lead to biased outcomes. The idea of going out and hiring “the best person for the job” without taking into account any human sociology is how pattern-matching occurs — teams and companies of people who are alike, when the research has long shown that more diverse teams perform better. Moreover, it has only raised suspicions about who the Valley considers excellent and why. 

Experts we spoke to said this subjectiveness revealed other issues with Wang’s missive — mostly that he presents MEI as a revolutionary idea and not one that Silicon Valley and most of corporate America have long embraced. The acronym “MEI” appears to be a scornful nod to DEI, intended to drive home the notion that a company must choose between hiring diverse candidates or candidates that meet certain “objective” qualifications.  

Natalie Sue Johnson, co-founder of the DEI consulting firm Paradigm, told TechCrunch that research has shown meritocracy to be a paradox and that organizations that focus too much on it actually see an increase in bias. “It frees people up from thinking that they have to try hard to be fair in their decision-making,” she continued. “They think that meritocracy is inherent, not something that needs to be achieved.” 

As Nkonde mentioned, Johnson noted that Wang’s approach doesn’t acknowledge that underrepresented groups face systemic barriers society is still struggling to address. Ironically, the most meritorious person could be the one who has achieved a skill set for a job despite such barriers that may have influenced their educational background or prevented them from filling their résumé with the kind of college internships that impresses Silicon Valley. 

Treating a person as a faceless, nameless candidate, without understanding their unique experiences, and therefore their employability, is a mistake, Johnson said. “There is nuance.” 

Witko added to that: “A meritocratic system is built on criteria that reflect the status quo, and therefore, it will perpetuate existing inequalities by continuously favoring those who already have advantages.”

To be somewhat charitable to Wang, given how acidic the term DEI has become, developing a new term that still represents the value of fairness to all candidates, isn’t a terrible idea — even if “meritocracy” is misguided. And his post suggests that Scale AI’s values could align with the spirit of diversity, equity, and inclusion even if he might not realize it, Johnson said. 

“Casting a wide net for talent and making objective hiring decisions that do not disadvantage candidates based on identity is exactly what diversity, equity, and inclusion work seeks to do,” she explained. 

But again, where Wang undermines this is endorsing the mistaken belief that meritocracy will produce outcomes based on one’s abilities and merits alone. 

Perhaps it is all a paradox. If one looks at Scale AI’s treatment of its data annotators — many of whom live in third-world countries and scrape by on little pay — it suggests the company has scant real interest in disrupting the status quo. 

Scale AI’s annotators work on tasks for multiple eight-hour workdays — no breaks — for pay ranging as low as $10 (per the Verge and NY Mag). It’s on the backs of these annotators that Scale AI has built a business worth over $13 billion and with more than $1.6 billion in cash in the bank. 

When asked for comment on the allegations made in the Verge and NY Mag piece, a spokesperson pointed to this blog post, in which it described its human annotator jobs as “gig work.” The spokesperson didn’t address TechCrunch’s request for clarification on Scale AI’s MEI policy.  

Johnson said Wang’s post is a great example of the box many leaders and companies find themselves trapped in. 

She pondered, can they trust that having meritocratic ideals is enough to lead to truly meritocratic outcomes, and promote diversity? 

“Or, do they acknowledge that ideals are not enough, and to truly build more diverse workforces where everyone has the same access to opportunities and can do their best work requires intention?”

[Hardcore troubadour 14,910]

All the black females springing up into positions of authority was definitely organic. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

This is FANTASTIC news for the world.  The sooner we move away from the hateful class and race warfare of the left, the better off the world will be.  They just want to create a "victims/oppressed vs oppressor" world which will ALWAYS be followed with death and destruction (see Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot, Castro, etc...).  It's been tried numerous times before and has failed spectacularly and I still have no idea why we have people who cling to those ideas.  Almost as if they've forgotten history.

[kilroy69 1,215]

24 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

This is FANTASTIC news for the world.  The sooner we move away from the hateful class and race warfare of the left, the better off the world will be.  They just want to create a "victims/oppressed vs oppressor" world which will ALWAYS be followed with death and destruction (see Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot, Castro, etc...).  It's been tried numerous times before and has failed spectacularly and I still have no idea why we have people who cling to those ideas.  Almost as if they've forgotten history.

I interviewed for 2 positions recently. I did not get either. The first wanted me to explain in detail how I would find people of color and females. I did my best but I could tell that I did not hit the mark for what they were looking for(likely not enough melanin in my skin). The second almost visibly recoiled at the idea of DEI recruiting. I could literally see her demeanor change when I mentioned it. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

7 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

I interviewed for 2 positions recently. I did not get either. The first wanted me to explain in detail how I would find people of color and females. I did my best but I could tell that I did not hit the mark for what they were looking for(likely not enough melanin in my skin). The second almost visibly recoiled at the idea of DEI recruiting. I could literally see her demeanor change when I mentioned it. 

So your damned if you do mention DEI and damned if you don't. 

[kilroy69 1,215]

11 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

So your damned if you do mention DEI and damned if you don't. 

Yep. I have to be prepared for 2 different interviews. One that is revolted by the idea of DEI and one that wants to make sure that even if DEI is outlawed you will still fill the funnel with minority and people of color candidates despite it being outlawed. 

[seafoam1 2,798]

2 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

So your damned if you do mention DEI and damned if you don't. 

I had required DEI training every 6 months or so for years at my consultant job. Supreme Court justices don't need to know what a woman is. 

 

[squistion 1,944]

TL;DR

[kilroy69 1,215]

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

I had required DEI training every 6 months or so for years at my consultant job. Supreme Court justices don't need to know what a woman is. 

 

I have to take DEI training at every single place I have worked. Same . Over and over. Nothing ever changes. In every training it is a white male making inappropriate comments, slapping a womans asss, just generally being a bad guy. In EVERY single one. 

[seafoam1 2,798]

1 minute ago, kilroy69 said:

I have to take DEI training at every single place I have worked. Same . Over and over. Nothing ever changes. In every training it is a white male making inappropriate comments, slapping a womans asss, just generally being a bad guy. In EVERY single one. 

Those videos are funny as hell except for the fact that they are racist against whites, and required to watch. 

 

[Mike Honcho 5,085]

Coincidentally, I'm just staring a DEI video today for a company to lead off some conference they are putting together.  I probably won't be using many of the ideas or suggestions from this thread.  

[cyclone24 1,912]

JFC… i’m not reading through a copy and paste dissertation. Can anybody explain this in five words or focking less?

[Voltaire 5,181]

So I converted to Islam, been on the Dolezol tanning regimen, got my d1ck cut off, wear a dress to work, and blow trannies all the time. I did everything I could think of to get to the apex of this news organization, Now you’re telling me it’s all pointless and I might have to go back to retreading tires?

[kilroy69 1,215]

4 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

JFC… i’m not reading through a copy and paste dissertation. Can anybody explain this in five words or focking less?

DEI advocates are coming out of the woodwork to defend the practice against the backdrop of silicone valley looking like they are starting to get tired of it ang give it up. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

1 minute ago, kilroy69 said:

DEI advocates Racists are coming out of the woodwork to defend the practice against the backdrop of silicone valley looking like they are starting to get tired of it ang give it up. 

Fixed your post. 

[cyclone24 1,912]

2 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

DEI advocates are coming out of the woodwork to defend the practice against the backdrop of silicone valley looking like they are starting to get tired of it ang give it up. 

Sweet Jesus, thank you lol

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

There’s always backlash to wokeism and sometimes it’s powerful. Three steps forward one step back. We’ll get there eventually. In ten years from now the folks complaining about this will be embarrassed that they ever did; that’s the way it always goes. 

[kilroy69 1,215]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

There’s always backlash to wokeism and sometimes it’s powerful. Three steps forward one step back. We’ll get there eventually. In ten years from now the folks complaining about this will be embarrassed that they ever did; that’s the way it always goes. 

 

There is a better chance that DEI will be outlawed by a scotus ruling than it being accepted as common practice in 10 years.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

There’s always backlash to wokeism and sometimes it’s powerful. Three steps forward one step back. We’ll get there eventually. In ten years from now the folks complaining about this will be embarrassed that they ever did; that’s the way it always goes. 

So your solution is to fight the racism with even more racism?  Racism 2.0?  WTF?

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

2 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

There is a better chance that DEI will be outlawed by a scotus ruling than it being accepted as common practice in 10 years.

One can only hope.  And if they do they need to make it clear that DEI under any other name would also be outlawed as some companies now are just changing the name of the practice to avoid scrutiny.

[nobody 2,557]

DEI is murdering one of our programs.  The customer, who is another internal organization, put in this guy in charge that has no idea what he's doing.  Thank God I'm not on this program.

Some gems:

"I need to be loved.  Therefore, I want each person on the program to stop by my office on a daily basis to show me love."

He showed up all last week in the weirdest outfits.  Like one of those shirts that has the giant flag and eagle depicted as a huge mural.  The guy dressed like he was going to a fourth of July barbecue all week.

"Please don't call us partners.  We are the customer and you are the vendor.  Don't ever call us partners again."

"I've given you latitude to have meetings on your own.  That ends now.  You cannot have a meeting unless a member of the customer team is present."

He's called multiple people stupid.  Yet he writes on his bio that he's a "mental strength champion"

When someone on the program told him they couldn't do something that typically takes 5 weeks in 5 days, he went to the director and said that person was disrespectful for not just getting it done.  If anyone disagrees with him, he says they need to work on their emotional intelligence.

They even showed some of the emails he's been sending with this stuff to his bosses, and they're just shocked, but they say he's DEI and he needs to be given chances.

[Alias Detective 1,388]

1 hour ago, squistion said:

TL;DR

Requiring diversity is a dumb as hell. 

[DonS 3,291]

39 minutes ago, nobody said:

DEI is murdering one of our programs.  The customer, who is another internal organization, put in this guy in charge that has no idea what he's doing.  Thank God I'm not on this program.

Some gems:

"I need to be loved.  Therefore, I want each person on the program to stop by my office on a daily basis to show me love."

He showed up all last week in the weirdest outfits.  Like one of those shirts that has the giant flag and eagle depicted as a huge mural.  The guy dressed like he was going to a fourth of July barbecue all week.

"Please don't call us partners.  We are the customer and you are the vendor.  Don't ever call us partners again."

"I've given you latitude to have meetings on your own.  That ends now.  You cannot have a meeting unless a member of the customer team is present."

He's called multiple people stupid.  Yet he writes on his bio that he's a "mental strength champion"

When someone on the program told him they couldn't do something that typically takes 5 weeks in 5 days, he went to the director and said that person was disrespectful for not just getting it done.  If anyone disagrees with him, he says they need to work on their emotional intelligence.

They even showed some of the emails he's been sending with this stuff to his bosses, and they're just shocked, but they say he's DEI and he needs to be given chances.

Which checkbox does this dude fulfill? 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

Fine by me. They pushed it too far. Turned it into a weapon

[Hardcore troubadour 14,910]

Some DEI hire judge in Atlanta was arrested for assaulting a cop at the club

[MDC 7,115]

Every non white / non conservative person in a position of authority is a DEI hire, according to the Geek Club.  

[squistion 1,944]

2 hours ago, cyclone24 said:

JFC… i’m not reading through a copy and paste dissertation. Can anybody explain this in five words or focking less?

That was what I was hoping for, a Cliff Notes version. 

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

12 minutes ago, squistion said:

That was what I was hoping for, a Cliff Notes version. 

Diversity programs are bad because conservatives want to ignore history and white privilege and pretend that everyone has equal opportunity to succeed regardless of race or gender. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Diversity programs are bad because conservatives want to ignore history and white privilege and pretend that everyone has equal opportunity to succeed regardless of race or gender. 

Nope, that's not it.  It's "Racism is not okay no matter who does it".  HTH.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,910]

No minority or other protected group ever stumbles on their own. They are always pushed. Any failure by a white male is self inflicted. You gotta love having that preached at you by some soft, lazy fatback that never worked a hard day in his life. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

No minority or other protected group ever stumbles on their own. They are always pushed. Any failure by a white male is self inflicted. You gotta love having that preached at you by some soft, lazy fatback that never worked a hard day in his life. 

Seems a bit racist too.  But, to be fair, racism never left the Democrat Party.

[cyclone24 1,912]

17 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Diversity programs are bad because conservatives want to ignore history and white privilege and pretend that everyone has equal opportunity to succeed regardless of race or gender. 

Is there anything more insulting than a white guy telling a minority that they aren’t good enough on their own and they need programs to create equality?

If I’m a minority, I would choke slam every white D bag that keeps pumping that out.

 

[kilroy69 1,215]

2 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

Is there anything more insulting than a white guy telling a minority that they aren’t good enough on their own and they need programs to create equality?

If I’m a minority, I would choke slam every white D bag that keeps pumping that out.

 

For someone without a victim  mentality that would be insulting. Minorities do not care in the slightest because they have been taught that they have been oppressed and deserve it. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

2 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

For someone without a victim  mentality that would be insulting. Minorities do not care in the slightest because they have been taught that they have been oppressed and deserve it. 

Classic Marxism 101.

[iam90sbaby 2,472]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

There’s always backlash to wokeism and sometimes it’s powerful. Three steps forward one step back. We’ll get there eventually. In ten years from now the folks complaining about this will be embarrassed that they ever did; that’s the way it always goes. 

Loser!

[cyclone24 1,912]

6 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

For someone without a victim  mentality that would be insulting. Minorities do not care in the slightest because they have been taught that they have been oppressed and deserve it. 

It’s so true. Like this Juneteenth crap? I’m like you can celebrate it if you want to, but you’re just celebrating victimhood. And like I always say if all you pump out is that you’re a victim that’s all anyone is ever going to see your race.
 

I mean, they are still a net negative on our society, but it’s because of their own doing.

I mean for God sakes Jews are persecuted today. The Irish, the internment camps we put people in. They aren’t struggling. 

[edjr 6,578]

Do
Enough
Imbecile

[IGotWorms 4,057]

24 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

It’s so true. Like this Juneteenth crap? I’m like you can celebrate it if you want to, but you’re just celebrating victimhood. And like I always say if all you pump out is that you’re a victim that’s all anyone is ever going to see your race.
 

I mean, they are still a net negative on our society, but it’s because of their own doing.

I mean for God sakes Jews are persecuted today. The Irish, the internment camps we put people in. They aren’t struggling. 

I don’t think acknowledging the end of slavery is “crap” or “celebrating victim hood.”

Might you be going a wee bit far?

[seafoam1 2,798]

38 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

It’s so true. Like this Juneteenth crap? I’m like you can celebrate it if you want to, but you’re just celebrating victimhood. And like I always say if all you pump out is that you’re a victim that’s all anyone is ever going to see your race.
 

I mean, they are still a net negative on our society, but it’s because of their own doing.

I mean for God sakes Jews are persecuted today. The Irish, the internment camps we put people in. They aren’t struggling. 

To these people, diversity means skin color. And they try to play it off as culture. 

Skin color doesn't mean shlt in real life except to liberals, but culture does matter to business and it's success in the free market.

[cyclone24 1,912]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

I don’t think acknowledging the end of slavery is “crap” or “celebrating victim hood.”

Might you be going a wee bit far?

How are you ever in the world going to succeed as a race if you’re constantly holding onto bad things that happened in the past to people that you have only heard of? 
 

I mean, if they don’t celebrate it is slavery coming back? I don’t know to me. It’s just silly.