Ten Dead And Thirty Injured Last Night In New Orleans

[Hardcore troubadour 15,439]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Fair point. But you’ll remember that on a rather famous occasion the ACLU actually DID defend Neo-Nazis; their right to free speech anyhow. 

In the case of American Muslims I think they need to be defended against stereotyping and dislike or hatred against them as a group which only grows when there are insane terrorists attacks like this one. I don’t like it when you and others collectivize them, as you did when you wrote that they’re all good with “killing the infidel.” I find such rhetoric false, ignorant, bigoted and hateful, and dangerous to our society. I want to fight against it. 

I find radical Muslims a danger to our society.  And seeing as the other Muslims won’t help identify them, too bad that they get lumped in. 

[Fnord 2,275]

1 hour ago, listen2me 23 said:

Im not here to say Muslims are bad.  But it is quite obvious that comparatively they have many violent followers who wish ill will on people who are not Muslim.  Willing to blow themselves up for their God.  Of course this isnt a majority.   But they have a ton of radicals.  

Its amazing how much lefties rail on religion.  Or pick on religion.   Say its dangerous.   Yet find themselves going to bat for Muslims over and over.  A lefty will rail on religion at every turn....if its you know...Christianity.  

Good post. I'm a liberal, and I'm not a big defender of ANY religion. Religion itself is not inherently dangerous. It gives comfort and peace and teaches many about morality. But it also inspires people to do some really horrific things. Religious and political violence are NEVER excusable, IMO. Fuk everyone involved in either.

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

9 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I find radical Muslims a danger to our society.  And seeing as the other Muslims won’t help identify them, too bad that they get lumped in. 

We agree on radical Muslims. Your second statement is a simple falsehood: almost 100% of when we apprehend Muslim terrorists it’s the result of informants within the Muslim community. 
 

It’s not “too bad” when non-radical Muslims get lumped in; it’s wrong. For heaven’s sake just stop it. Show some decency. 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

10 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’m not saying this POS was part of some high tech terrorist network, but he didn’t get radicalized taking the on line course. There are more involved on some level. 

MK Ultra

[Patented Phil 1,469]

46 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Good post. I'm a liberal, and I'm not a big defender of ANY religion. Religion itself is not inherently dangerous. It gives comfort and peace and teaches many about morality. But it also inspires people to do some really horrific things. Religious and political violence are NEVER excusable, IMO. Fuk everyone involved in either.

I think there’s an important distinction to be made here.  With Islam, calls to violence are within the text of the religion.  In Christianity  (and I believe Buddhism as well) there is nothing in the text calling for violence.  In fact, just the opposite.  Christ’s most famous words on the subject are to “turn the other cheek.”

That doesn’t stop bad actors from invoking Christianity to do evil.  But that’s the fault of man, not the religion itself.

Islam needs reform - in its views on violence, and in its views on women.  That is never going to happen until apologists like @The Real timschochet grow a set and start holding them accountable.

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

14 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

I think there’s an important distinction to be made here.  With Islam, calls to violence are within the text of the religion.  In Christianity  (and I believe Buddhism as well) there is nothing in the text calling for violence.  In fact, just the opposite.  Christ’s most famous words on the subject are to “turn the other cheek.”

That doesn’t stop bad actors from invoking Christianity to do evil.  But that’s the fault of man, not the religion itself.

Islam needs reform - in its views on violence, and in its views on women.  That is never going to happen until apologists like @The Real timschochet grow a set and start holding them accountable.

Who is apologizing? All I am saying is don’t hold innocent people responsible along with the guilty. To be Muslim is not in itself a crime. 

[Fnord 2,275]

1 minute ago, Patented Phil said:

I think there’s an important distinction to be made here.  With Islam, calls to violence are within the text of the religion.  In Christianity  (and I believe Buddhism as well) there is nothing in the text calling for violence.  In fact, just the opposite.  Christ’s most famous words on the subject are to “turn the other cheek.”

That doesn’t stop bad actors from invoking Christianity to do evil.  But that’s the fault of man, not the religion itself.

Agreed, though I think there may be some misinterpretation as to calls to violence in Islamic faith. I have heard it told both ways. I think Hindu also features non-violent dogma.

I have little doubt you are more educated on religion than I, and I know your are a Christian. I rail on religion at times, but normally only in reference to horrible acts like this. I would never want to deny someone their religious beliefs, or paint with broad brush strokes when discussing radical zealots' relationship with non-radical adherents. Islam sure seems like the "worst" religion, but I'm not going to blame them all for the acts of the radicalized few. Just like I won't chastise your average Catholic/Protestant for the behavior of some freaky Branch Davidians trying to bomb abortion clinics. Same concept as being critical of Zionism politically while not being an antisemite.

Religion is not one-size-fits-all. It's not for me, it is for you. Freedom is a wonderful thing. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,439]

58 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

MK Ultra

No. More like the other on the down low radicals at the mosque he attended. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

I say if God wants some folks dead he does his own dirty work. Getting adherents to do the deed is cowardice.  The old testament God needed no help wiping out Sodom and Gomorrah nor flooding the world.  Why the newer versions of God needs the help of people, by definition beings capable of mistakes, in carrying out his or her judgment is beyond me.  Seems like a practice which invites tradgic error.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

No. More like the other on the down low radicals at the mosque he attended. 

I don't actually believe the MK Ultra stuff but I've been seeing more and more people talking about it.  Some people believe it is real and being used right now.

[jerryskids 6,799]

40 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Who is apologizing? All I am saying is don’t hold innocent people responsible along with the guilty. To be Muslim is not in itself a crime. 

We've had this discussion recently.  Any individual Muslim is probably not a problem.  It's when they collect in groups that the problems start.  Muslim culture, and societies based on that culture, is broken.  I provide as evidence:  every European country that made the mistake of opening their borders to Muslim refugees.

Liberals like yourself make the mistake of thinking there are no moral absolutes, that each culture is good within its own confines.  I may not convince you of this, but hopefully you can objectively see that Muslim culture is not compatible with Judeo-Christian culture.  

[Fnord 2,275]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I don't actually believe the MK Ultra stuff but I've been seeing more and more people talking about it.  Some people believe it is real and being used right now.

MK Ultra is absolutely real. I do not believe and absolutely hope that it is not ongoing today, however. It started in the 50s.

ETA: LINK

ETA2: Senate Intelligence Cmte report

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

We've had this discussion recently.  Any individual Muslim is probably not a problem.  It's when they collect in groups that the problems start.  Muslim culture, and societies based on that culture, is broken.  I provide as evidence:  every European country that made the mistake of opening their borders to Muslim refugees.

Liberals like yourself make the mistake of thinking there are no moral absolutes, that each culture is good within its own confines.  I may not convince you of this, but hopefully you can objectively see that Muslim culture is not compatible with Judeo-Christian culture.  

I absolutely believe in moral absolutes and in good and evil. But I don’t think it applies in the way that you have chosen to apply it. I also reject your example of Muslim immigrants in European countries. For the most part they have worked out fine. There are always some problems and some radicals but they don’t represent the majority. I would counter your examples with the example of the Turkish community in Berlin, of which I have become personally familiar. 

Because of some business and personal relationships I have become very familiar with Muslim communities in Southern California: not just individuals but whole groups of people. And I can tell you flatly that your assumptions are just wrong. But if you doubt this, then I invite you to visit a mosque in your own community. Go on a Friday afternoon before prayer. Ask to speak to the Imam and ask any questions you’d like. I guarantee you will be welcomed. If you truly wish to be informed on this subject that is. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,439]

How do you buy or sell an ISIS flag without that getting on someone’s radar? 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I absolutely believe in moral absolutes and in good and evil. But I don’t think it applies in the way that you have chosen to apply it. I also reject your example of Muslim immigrants in European countries. For the most part they have worked out fine. There are always some problems and some radicals but they don’t represent the majority. I would counter your examples with the example of the Turkish community in Berlin, of which I have become personally familiar. 

Because of some business and personal relationships I have become very familiar with Muslim communities in Southern California: not just individuals but whole groups of people. And I can tell you flatly that your assumptions are just wrong. But if you doubt this, then I invite you to visit a mosque in your own community. Go on a Friday afternoon before prayer. Ask to speak to the Imam and ask any questions you’d like. I guarantee you will be welcomed. If you truly wish to be informed on this subject that is. 

Tim -  no one is arguing that all Muslims are bad.  The vast majority of them are fine.  But there is a terrorism problem in Islam.  That’s just a fact.  If all the terrorism acts were being committed by Trump supporters you’d have no problem calling out the broader community.

[avoiding injuries 1,585]

34 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

How do you buy or sell an ISIS flag without that getting on someone’s radar? 

Seriously. I bought a MAGA flag off Temu and an FBI agent delivered it. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,107]

31 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

Seriously. I bought a MAGA flag off Temu and an FBI agent delivered it. 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,439]

50 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

Seriously. I bought a MAGA flag off Temu and an FBI agent delivered it. 

Did he invite you to the meeting? 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,107]

1 hour ago, avoiding injuries said:

Seriously. I bought a MAGA flag off Temu and an FBI agent delivered it. 

if you would have bought an ISIS flag you would have received a credit card, free room and board at a hotel of your choosing and a welcome card from The Democrat Party, all delivered by Nancy Pelosi and AOC personally.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

20 hours ago, Fnord said:

MK Ultra is absolutely real. I do not believe and absolutely hope that it is not ongoing today, however. It started in the 50s.

ETA: LINK

ETA2: Senate Intelligence Cmte report

I know that it was a thing, what I meant is that I don't think it is anymore.

[Maximum Overkill 1,997]

NOT TERRORISM, says Democrats  

[HellToupee 1,778]

20 hours ago, Fnord said:

MK Ultra is absolutely real. I do not believe and absolutely hope that it is not ongoing today, however. It started in the 50s.

ETA: LINK

ETA2: Senate Intelligence Cmte report

People like to dismiss MKUltra as a conspiracy theory. Going through the program did wonders for Whitey Bulger

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,107]

21 hours ago, Fnord said:

MK Ultra is absolutely real. I do not believe and absolutely hope that it is not ongoing today, however. It started in the 50s.

ETA: LINK

ETA2: Senate Intelligence Cmte report

hah! I literally just got done watching a video about Stranger Things on Netflix and how Vecna's history goes back to the MK Ultra program.  I was completely unaware of this until watching that.

[Fnord 2,275]

On 1/4/2025 at 9:16 AM, HellToupee said:

People like to dismiss MKUltra as a conspiracy theory. Going through the program did wonders for Whitey Bulger

Right? Didn't he get dosed with something every day for a couple of years straight? I only vaguely remember reading about him being one of the most prominent guinea pigs.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

FBI assistant special agent in charge who said New Orleans attack 'not a terrorist event' reassigned

[Hardcore troubadour 15,439]

2 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

FBI assistant special agent in charge who said New Orleans attack 'not a terrorist event' reassigned

I’d send her to N Dakota on the overnight shift.  I would make it my mission to get her to quit.