Economic leftism doesn’t work

[The Real timschochet 6,406]

Fareed Zakaria spells it out with a brand new opinion piece: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/01/04/new-york-florida-liberal-failure/

In case you’re blocked from reading this, he looks at two states, New York and Florida, with similar populations (23 million vs 20 million) and demographics. Except that the state budget for New York is 270 billion, and for Florida it’s 120 billion. New York, run for decades by well meaning liberals, spends more than twice as much every year with much higher taxes. Yet the standard of living is higher in Florida. This, Zakaria says, is why Republicans are winning elections. 
 

I am a Democrat for a lot of core reasons: in no particular order, immigration, abortion, woke issues, trade, internationalism, fighting climate change, etc. Leftist economics has never been one of those reasons. I think Zakaria is right, and I think liberals need to wake up or we’re going to continue to lose. 

[Strike 5,185]

NY just started charging $9 a day to drive in to NYC.   ROFLMAO.

[The Real timschochet 6,406]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

NY just started charging $9 a day to drive in to NYC.   ROFLMAO.

I don’t understand what this means. Is it a toll road? What was it before? 

[Strike 5,185]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t understand what this means. Is it a toll road? What was it before? 

Google "NYC congestion pricing."

[The Real timschochet 6,406]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Google "NYC congestion pricing."

OK thanks: 

https://www.npr.org/2025/01/05/nx-s1-5248994/new-york-congestion-pricing

Not sure how I feel about this. I’ve never lived in a traffic congested city so I can’t relate to the concerns. Apparently this sort of thing has helped in London and other cities. But frankly I have never loved the idea of trying to alter human behavior by punishment. I have a feeling this is going to fail. 

[Strike 5,185]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

OK thanks: 

https://www.npr.org/2025/01/05/nx-s1-5248994/new-york-congestion-pricing

Not sure how I feel about this. I’ve never lived in a traffic congested city so I can’t relate to the concerns. Apparently this sort of thing has helped in London and other cities. But frankly I have never loved the idea of trying to alter human behavior by punishment. I have a feeling this is going to fail. 

They cut the number of lanes available to cars by creating bike lanes.  This was a self inflicted wound.

[The Real timschochet 6,406]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

They cut the number of lanes available to cars by creating bike lanes.  This was a self inflicted wound.

They’re probably trying to emulate Amsterdam. If you’ve never been, it’s more bikes than cars. But the problem is that nobody determined Amsterdam would be that way; it just evolved over time. I don’t think you can plan this sort of thing and try to force it on a population used to something else. 

[squistion 1,944]

14 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Fareed Zakaria spells it out with a brand new opinion piece: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/01/04/new-york-florida-liberal-failure/

In case you’re blocked from reading this, he looks at two states, New York and Florida, with similar populations (23 million vs 20 million) and demographics. Except that the state budget for New York is 270 billion, and for Florida it’s 120 billion. New York, run for decades by well meaning liberals, spends more than twice as much every year with much higher taxes. Yet the standard of living is higher in Florida. This, Zakaria says, is why Republicans are winning elections. 
 

I am a Democrat for a lot of core reasons: in no particular order, immigration, abortion, woke issues, trade, internationalism, fighting climate change, etc. Leftist economics has never been one of those reasons. I think Zakaria is right, and I think liberals need to wake up or we’re going to continue to lose. 

You are a Democrat but you not close to being a liberal, as I have been saying for years (and as you once again have proven when refering to "leftist economics" ). 

That said, I don't think the demographics are equal for New York and Florida. Florida has the highest percentage of people aged 65 and older in the United States with with nearly 4.6 million adults aged 65+ living there - so New York would be providing more services related to families and children. I would imagina that are probably others factors too that would also account for NY having a higher budget if one were to look into this further. 

[Strike 5,185]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

They’re probably trying to emulate Amsterdam. If you’ve never been, it’s more bikes than cars. But the problem is that nobody determined Amsterdam would be that way; it just evolved over time. I don’t think you can plan this sort of thing and try to force it on a population used to something else. 

How does the weather in Amsterdam compare to NYC?  As a guy who's family has strong ties to NYC and has spent a good amount of time there I can tell you that for various reasons you're not going to make NYC a bike city.

[CaptainObvious1 323]

The word Economic is not needed in the thread title

[The Real timschochet 6,406]

9 minutes ago, Strike said:

How does the weather in Amsterdam compare to NYC?  As a guy who's family has strong ties to NYC and has spent a good amount of time there I can tell you that for various reasons you're not going to make NYC a bike city.

I was there in the summer only so I’ve no idea. 

[Strike 5,185]

8 minutes ago, CaptainObvious1 said:

The word Economic is not needed in the thread title

Thanks Captain Obvious!

[Strike 5,185]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I was there in the summer only so I’ve no idea. 

Where, Amsterdam?

[The Real timschochet 6,406]

12 minutes ago, squistion said:

You are a Democrat but you not close to being a liberal, as I have been saying for years (and as you once again have proven when refering to "leftist economics" ). 

That said, I don't think the demographics are equal for New York and Florida. Florida has the highest percentage of people aged 65 and older in the United States with with nearly 4.6 million adults aged 65+ living there - so New York would be providing more services related to families and children. I would imagina that are probably others factors too that would also account for NY having a higher budget if one were to look into this further. 

I think I’m very much a liberal for non-economic issues. 

[The Real timschochet 6,406]

Just now, Strike said:

Where, Amsterdam?

Yeah. 

[The Real timschochet 6,406]

9 minutes ago, CaptainObvious1 said:

The word Economic is not needed in the thread title

Well IMO it is. 

[Strike 5,185]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yeah. 

Been to NY in July/August?

[edjr 6,578]

46 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Fareed Zakaria spells it out with a brand new opinion piece: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/01/04/new-york-florida-liberal-failure/

In case you’re blocked from reading this, he looks at two states, New York and Florida, with similar populations (23 million vs 20 million) and demographics. Except that the state budget for New York is 270 billion, and for Florida it’s 120 billion. New York, run for decades by well meaning liberals, spends more than twice as much every year with much higher taxes. Yet the standard of living is higher in Florida. This, Zakaria says, is why Republicans are winning elections. 
 

I am a Democrat for a lot of core reasons: in no particular order, immigration, abortion, woke issues, trade, internationalism, fighting climate change, etc. Leftist economics has never been one of those reasons. I think Zakaria is right, and I think liberals need to wake up or we’re going to continue to lose. 

Bravo Tim for seeing the writing on the proverbial wall and admitting what so many on your side cannot. Would LOVE to see California budget 

[The Real timschochet 6,406]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

Been to NY in July/August?

No. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,829]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Fareed Zakaria spells it out with a brand new opinion piece: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/01/04/new-york-florida-liberal-failure/

In case you’re blocked from reading this, he looks at two states, New York and Florida, with similar populations (23 million vs 20 million) and demographics. Except that the state budget for New York is 270 billion, and for Florida it’s 120 billion. New York, run for decades by well meaning liberals, spends more than twice as much every year with much higher taxes. Yet the standard of living is higher in Florida. This, Zakaria says, is why Republicans are winning elections. 
 

I am a Democrat for a lot of core reasons: in no particular order, immigration, abortion, woke issues, trade, internationalism, fighting climate change, etc. Leftist economics has never been one of those reasons. I think Zakaria is right, and I think liberals need to wake up or we’re going to continue to lose. 

I think I found your problem.  The road to hell is paved with them.  

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,829]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

NY just started charging $9 a day to drive in to NYC.   ROFLMAO.

What?  You think those free 5K credit cards, free housing and free services for illegals is going to pay for itself? 

Oh, wait.  Guys like Tim actually DO think it will pay for itself. 

[MDC 7,122]

Not arguing the premise, but the GDP of NY is around 50% higher than FL. Wouldn’t that be a better indicator of budget than population?

[squistion 1,944]

6 minutes ago, MDC said:

Not arguing the premise, but the GDP of NY is around 50% higher than FL. Wouldn’t that be a better indicator of budget than population?

Yeah, that makes sense. As I mentioned earlier, it is probably too simplistic just to look at the populations and budgets for those two states and conclude that "economic leftism" doesn't work. 

[avoiding injuries 1,505]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

NY just started charging $9 a day to drive in to NYC.   ROFLMAO.

The taxi union and Uber were the two groups behind this bill. And this isn’t to drive in TO NYC, it’s to drive IN NYC. They already have tunnel and bridge tolls to get in. If I were trying to keep people from coming into my city, I wouldn’t change anything they’re already doing. 

[shorepatrol 1,870]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

 I don’t think you can plan this sort of thing and try to force it on a population used to something else. 

That's called leftism policy across the board, your head is so far up your azz it frightening 

[TBayXXXVII 2,482]

1 hour ago, MDC said:

Not arguing the premise, but the GDP of NY is around 50% higher than FL. Wouldn’t that be a better indicator of budget than population?

Most metrics, including GDP, comparing these two states would be flawed.  Florida doesn't operate the way NY does, because it doesn't have to.  For example, taxes make up a part of a states GDP.  You also have to keep in mind that NYC is the biggest driving force of NY's GDP and not only does the state have income tax, so does NYC where as Florida has no state income tax.  On top of that, so is sales tax.  Florida's state sales tax is 7%, NY's is 4%, but as previously mentioned, I think we all know that NYC is the driving force of NY's GDP, NYC's own sales tax is around 5%, so you're going to pay 9% in NYC.

[Mark Davis 339]

9 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Most metrics, including GDP, comparing these two states would be flawed.  Florida doesn't operate the way NY does, because it doesn't have to.  For example, taxes make up a part of a states GDP.  You also have to keep in mind that NYC is the biggest driving force of NY's GDP and not only does the state have income tax, so does NYC where as Florida has no state income tax.  On top of that, so is sales tax.  Florida's state sales tax is 7%, NY's is 4%, but as previously mentioned, I think we all know that NYC is the driving force of NY's GDP, NYC's own sales tax is around 5%, so you're going to pay 9% in NYC.

Thanks for posting this. I had similar thoughts but just on my phone so hard for me to type that out. The models of states like Florida and Texas and what their infrastructure with lower taxes should be the envy of everyone. 

[edjr 6,578]

 

Quote

 

The Massachusetts Turnpike was built way back in 1952. It was financed with bonds and paid off with tolls over 30 years.

Forty years later, the toll booths on the Pike are extinct, but tolls are not.

"And the fact of the matter is, if we are being honest with ourselves, these tolls aren't going away any time soon," State Rep. Peter Durant, a Republican from Worcester, told WBZ-TV.

Durant has been pushing to ditch the tolls for years.

"We have the money available that would backfill any lost revenue from there," he said. "I think we need to get rid of those tolls and keep the promises that we made."

"If we were to be equitable, we would add tolls on the north-south routes, so 93 north and south," Durant told WBZ. "There's a lot of traffic that comes up from Braintree in the morning. That's, as we all know is a very congested roadway, that needs a lot of work.

Tolls on the Pike, the tunnels and the Tobin Bridge brought in more than $412 million in revenue last year. Now, if the money from the Pike tolls wasn't coming in, where would the money come from?

There is the gas tax, that every driver pays into.

There's the new infrastructure bill that will bring in $5 billion over 5 years for roads and bridges.

And there's the new millionaire tax - some of that money is supposed to go to roads and bridges.

But lawmakers on Beacon Hill haven't budged on the tolls. They use a loophole to keep them in place. The promise to make the Pike a free road, they say, was only if the road was in good repair.

"Back in 2016-1017, the secretary made a determination that the road was not in a state of good repair and that the tolls would continue. So, that's where we are now," said MassDOT highway administrator Jonathan Gulliver.

He told WBZ the Pike and its overpasses actually need quite a bit of expensive repairs.

"Regardless of how much money we get, there always is a big gap, in terms of what people want transportation to be and what we currently provide," Gulliver said.

But it all seems so unfair. Why should your toll money pay for projects on other highways and how come only drivers on the Pike pay tolls?

First, there's a rule that toll money cannot be spent on other roads, only on other toll roads, like the current Sumner Tunnel project.

Second, all other Massachusetts highways were built with some federal money. The law says those roads aren't allowed to have tolls, all the more reason that the Pike tolls are here to stay.

 

Taxachusetts put up tolls on route 90 (The pike that goes to NY) in 1952. State said they would be closed when work they were built for was paid for in the 80s 

[Cdub100 3,826]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Fareed Zakaria spells it out with a brand new opinion piece: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/01/04/new-york-florida-liberal-failure/

In case you’re blocked from reading this, he looks at two states, New York and Florida, with similar populations (23 million vs 20 million) and demographics. Except that the state budget for New York is 270 billion, and for Florida it’s 120 billion. New York, run for decades by well meaning liberals, spends more than twice as much every year with much higher taxes. Yet the standard of living is higher in Florida. This, Zakaria says, is why Republicans are winning elections. 
 

I am a Democrat for a lot of core reasons: in no particular order, immigration, abortion, woke issues, trade, internationalism, fighting climate change, etc. Leftist economics has never been one of those reasons. I think Zakaria is right, and I think liberals need to wake up or we’re going to continue to lose. 

If you have to say people are well meaning they aren't.

Your core reasons are extremely dangerous to a well-functioning society. Your push for native replacement, murder of babies, child abuse, better trade for others, none natives imposing their will on us, and faux science is a pox on our society. 

Your people tried the same crap in Germany during the 20s and 30s when the Jews tried to impose communism (like they did to Russia) Literally the same game plan. Why are you like this?

[Engorgeous George 2,124]

I am guessing Tim will come in and be angry that no one has spoken out after Cdub's post.  Generally I don't bother.  Generally I simply turn my back on blatant ignorance and trolling and do not dignify such posts with a response.  Still, since Timmy needs reassurance I officially note that I have spoken out against Cdub's post.  Further, I authorize Tim to presume that when I do not do so in the future it is silent condemnation.  It is a shunning.  A turning of my back.  My silence is not support or agreement, it is an effort to not give further breath to ignorance.

[weepaws 3,152]

2 hours ago, Cdub100 said:

If you have to say people are well meaning they aren't.

Your core reasons are extremely dangerous to a well-functioning society. Your push for native replacement, murder of babies, child abuse, better trade for others, none natives imposing their will on us, and faux science is a pox on our society. 

Your people tried the same crap in Germany during the 20s and 30s when the Jews tried to impose communism (like they did to Russia) Literally the same game plan. Why are you like this?

Agreed 

[easilyscan 858]

5 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

No. 

Me neither, but I've been told you can smell it 100's of miles away if you're downwind.

Saw this video on YouTube recently. Amazing to think of the amount of electricity consumed on a daily basis.

 

[jbycho 582]

No leftist opinion works. 

[Cdub100 3,826]

3 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

I am guessing Tim will come in and be angry that no one has spoken out after Cdub's post.  Generally I don't bother.  Generally I simply turn my back on blatant ignorance and trolling and do not dignify such posts with a response.  Still, since Timmy needs reassurance I officially note that I have spoken out against Cdub's post.  Further, I authorize Tim to presume that when I do not do so in the future it is silent condemnation.  It is a shunning.  A turning of my back.  My silence is not support or agreement, it is an effort to not give further breath to ignorance.

Nobody ever says I'm wrong or calls me a liar.

[The Real timschochet 6,406]

56 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Nobody ever says I'm wrong or calls me a liar.

You’re 100% wrong. 
 

You’re not a liar. I’m sure you believe the stuff you write. That makes it worse. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,922]

So Tim lists all the reasons why he’s a liberal and thinks none of them have anything to do with economics. It’s laughable. 

[Fireballer 2,639]

3 hours ago, jbycho said:

No leftist opinion works. 

Pretty much.  Bad economic policy is but a part of the many failures of the liberal mindset.

[Cdub100 3,826]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

You’re 100% wrong. 
 

You’re not a liar. I’m sure you believe the stuff you write. That makes it worse. 

109 countries can't be wrong. At some point you have to realize the problem is you.

[CaptainObvious1 323]

13 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

109 countries can't be wrong. At some point you have to realize the problem is you.

I have 2057 in the pool when this occurs.