Brock Bowers

[Ray_T 763]

Hey guys, I debated not making this post public, cuz this kind of post really gets people riled up........but after thinking about this, I have to speak out.

Bowers is the concensus #1 TE in the NFL this year.    I'm telling you I dont think hes gonna be #1.

here is why:

Pete Carroll

historically his offenses do not Feature a TE.    for the most part he doesnt have TE that finish in the top 10 or even top 15.

then one year he traded for Jimmy Graham.    who was the concensus top TE in the NFL with the Saints.

he played 3 seasons in seattle.   one Meh season, one good season (TE3) and another Meh season and then he was traded.

that's literally the only sniff of the top 10 any of his TE's have had during his tenure in Seattle.

due to the talent, Im sure he will utilize Bowers.   but I do not think he finishes #1.   I think he tops out at #4 or #5.     Top 3 if everything goes right.   But there is a lot more risk here than people think there is.    This is not a Criticism of Bowers.    Hes a superb talent.    This is all about the Pete Carroll offense.

say what you will about the guy, but TE are historically not productive under him.

thats my prediction.   I fully realize a lot of you will be mad at me for making this prediction, but see for yourself.  Look at how Carrolls TE's have historically produced.  It aint pretty.

[jrokh 610]

Who else are they going to throw it  to?

[Ray_T 763]

fair point.   Jacobi.

but my belief is he wont fall completely off the map.  he just wont be the #1 guy.

Carroll likes to run the ball and throw to the WR.   due to the lack of talent at WR I'm predicting a robust ground game.   he will still get significant action for the reason you have alluded to

I'm just saying not to expect him to be the TE1 this year.

[Maximum Overkill 2,171]

Trey McBride is TE1 this year 

[Showboat 257]

I think that Carroll is a good coach and good coaches figure out how to use talented players.  Arguably, Jimmy Graham was past his prime when he went to the Seahawks (and he was certainly not even close to being the best player on those Seahawk teams).  Bowers is possibly the best offensive player on the Raiders (and certainly their best receiver).  While guaranteeing a #1 TE finish is a fools errand, Bowers is certainly in the top tier of TEs.  I would not be worried.

[Ray_T 763]

15 minutes ago, Showboat said:

I think that Carroll is a good coach and good coaches figure out how to use talented players.  Arguably, Jimmy Graham was past his prime when he went to the Seahawks (and he was certainly not even close to being the best player on those Seahawk teams).  Bowers is possibly the best offensive player on the Raiders (and certainly their best receiver).  While guaranteeing a #1 TE finish is a fools errand, Bowers is certainly in the top tier of TEs.  I would not be worried.

all good points. 

my main one is that his coach has historically not gotten top production out of the TE position.   so drafting him as the first TE off the board might not be as wise as you think.

he will still be good.   dont get me wrong.    but a repeat of last years numbers would be expecting a lot given the situation.

[weepaws 3,233]

If you draft a te as high as bowers adp, he better be the top producing te.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,593]

14 hours ago, Ray_T said:

Hey guys, I debated not making this post public, cuz this kind of post really gets people riled up........but after thinking about this, I have to speak out.

Bowers is the concensus #1 TE in the NFL this year.    I'm telling you I dont think hes gonna be #1.

here is why:

Pete Carroll

historically his offenses do not Feature a TE.    for the most part he doesnt have TE that finish in the top 10 or even top 15.

then one year he traded for Jimmy Graham.    who was the concensus top TE in the NFL with the Saints.

he played 3 seasons in seattle.   one Meh season, one good season (TE3) and another Meh season and then he was traded.

that's literally the only sniff of the top 10 any of his TE's have had during his tenure in Seattle.

due to the talent, Im sure he will utilize Bowers.   but I do not think he finishes #1.   I think he tops out at #4 or #5.     Top 3 if everything goes right.   But there is a lot more risk here than people think there is.    This is not a Criticism of Bowers.    Hes a superb talent.    This is all about the Pete Carroll offense.

say what you will about the guy, but TE are historically not productive under him.

thats my prediction.   I fully realize a lot of you will be mad at me for making this prediction, but see for yourself.  Look at how Carrolls TE's have historically produced.  It aint pretty.

I can see your point.  Carroll generally force-feeds his situation into more heavily relying on the run than the pass.  I think he's kind of setting that up in Vegas with drafting Jeanty.  What's interesting though, is that the with Geno Smith (post Russell Wilson), in Seattle, Pete Carroll's offense was definitely throwing more often.  Geno averaged 33.5 passes per game while averaged 30... but over the last 3 years with Wilson, he averaged 32.  He got more willing to pass as the league shifted.  Wilson, in his first 4 seasons, only averaged 27 attempts per game.

I think Carroll has evolved with the league enough to know that he needs to throw more often than he used to.  In those years you mentioned with Graham, about his less than expected fantasy production, he was still the second most targeted player on the team.  I just think the offense wasn't very good because those years were really bad for he Seahawks in terms of the talent at RB.  It was a lot more of "Russell, you do it".  That's not a good recipe for the passing game.  That likely won't be the situation in Vegas.

Geno knows what Carroll wants.  I think Chip Kelly will have an offense that will maximize the talent he has.  I mean, his offenses at OSU were pretty potent.  Look at this way, with LeSean McCoy at RB and Mark Sanchez and Nick Foles at QB, Jeremy Maclin had 1300 yards and 10 TDs... Jordan Mathews almost had 900 yards and 8 TD's on 67 receptions and had a top 5 offense.  Riley Cooper had an 800 yard 8 TD season with Chip Kelly.

Back in 2021, I said Brady would throw for 5000 yards and 50 TD's.  He threw for 5300 and 43... I wasn't that far off.  I said I expect both Godwin and Evans to have WR1 seasons (if they stayed healthy).  I wasn't too far off there either.... Evans was WR9 and Godwin WR15.  Though, if you look at fpg, Godwin was 7th and Evans was 11th.  The reason for those predictions was volume.  I fully expected the Bucs to throw the ball 700 times... Brady had 719 attempts that year.  How does that translate?  I expect Geno Smith to throw the ball at least 550 times this year.  So, who's getting the targets?

How many targets do you expect Jakobi to get?  Bech?  Tucker?  In order, I'll say 110, 55, & 70... bringing us up to 235 leaving us with about 315 left out there.  Let's be generous and say 75 to the other WR's and TE's... that's still 240 left.  Last year, Mattison & Abdullah accounted for 95 pass targets... they're both gone.  In their place is Jeanty and Mostert, and neither are noted pass catchers.  Want to give them 80?  We're down to 160... that's about where Bowers was last year.   Let's be negative and say he gets 140, catches 68% for 10 ypr... that's 95 receptions for 950 yards... we'll give him the same 5 TD's.  That's 220 fantasy points.  Last year, that's TE4.  I think that's his floor.  Interestingly enough, he was TE3 in terms of fpg.

[LaChup 233]

I think people are underestimating the power of Mark Davis' bowl cut. Bowers will be the undisputed #1 TE with McBride at #2.

[weepaws 3,233]

2 hours ago, LaChup said:

I think people are underestimating the power of Mark Davis' bowl cut. Bowers will be the undisputed #1 TE with McBride at #2.

Since one will over pay for them, they better.  Won’t be me making that mistake 

[defectivesupport 8]

On 8/15/2025 at 11:05 AM, Ray_T said:

all good points. 

my main one is that his coach has historically not gotten top production out of the TE position.   so drafting him as the first TE off the board might not be as wise as you think.

he will still be good.   dont get me wrong.    but a repeat of last years numbers would be expecting a lot given the situation.

I'm also of the same mind that brock has a very good chance to NOT be the TE1 this year.  I think he will be good, but improving on last year seems unlikely - he already got 153 targets last year.  Geno smith has never supported a TE for more than 500 yards in his career.  Carroll historically supports 50-75 TE targets a year.   Also, the 2 games before Adams was traded, Brock only got 3 and 4 targets respectively.  Then jumped up to 12 after he was traded. This year, they added Jenty, 2 rookie WR, and still have meyers and tucker.  Even without all these new mouths to feed, there was six games Brock got above 10 targets, but also five where he got below 6 last year.  Snipe even 2-3 targets a game for the new players and brock is much closer to 90 Rec - which I do not think puts him at #1 for the year. 

But even if he doesn't regress... last years stats didn't show him as the surefire TE1 anyway. 
Bowers: 17 games 112 rec 1194 yrds 5 TDs 530 routes run - 15.45 points per game
McBride: 16 games 111 rec 1146 yards 3Tds 473 routes run - 15.61 points per game
Kittle: 15 games 78 rec 1106 yrds 8Tds 357 routes run -  15.77 points per game
Even Jonu Smith came in at 13 points per game last year. 

Again, I don't think he will be bad - but there shouldn't be as big of a gap between him and mcbride/kittle as people seem to be pushing.  

[Matt Mueller 147]

Love this post.   Bowers should eat but new coach, new qb that maybe takes more shots doesn’t pepper TE and RB to steal the teams identity make me fade him at adp

Certainly wouldn’t pay a premium for him over McBride or Kittle at cost 

[TBayXXXVII 2,593]

McBride is going only 9 picks after Bowers.  I don't think there's really a drop off in talent at other position there.

Kittle usually misses a few games, that's why he's drafted 2 rounds later.  I mean, if you want to hope that those 2 or 3 games missed by Kittle aren't in the playoffs... sure.

 

The Raiders got a better QB who's likely to complete more passes.  Their best pass catcher is Bowers.  It makes sense to throw him the ball more.  They upgraded (we think), their backfield.  It assumes more chances to score and more drives that gain yards.

The Cardinals drafted Harrison to be a game changer.  He can't be that if you don't throw him the ball.  Throwing him the ball more on a team that doesn't throw as much, will likely result in less targets for McBride.

Kittle misses multiple games a year, generally.  He's not getting younger.

Bowers has the best chance of the 3 to really make gains in the TD production department.  They're the only one that actually improved their offensive talent.  Kittle got 8, if McCaffrey is healthy (which he is every other year), Jennings is still a big part of the game plan, Pearsall is healthy, and Aiyuk comes back ok, Kittle getting more than 8 is unlikely.  McBride had 2 last year (Harrison 8, Wilson 4).  Nothing changed over there other than the idea that Harrison will get the ball more.  Not sure how that helps McBride.  Bowers has a legit shot at double digit TD's... like as many as 12.

 

Me, I'm not picking any of them.  I'm waiting until many rounds later.  That said, if I'm picking a TE in the first 4 rounds, I'll bet on Bowers before the other 2.

[Ray_T 763]

4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Me, I'm not picking any of them.  I'm waiting until many rounds later.  That said, if I'm picking a TE in the first 4 rounds, I'll bet on Bowers before the other 2.

hey I appreciate all you said, but what about the fact that the team is likely going to be a run based offense?

when you run the ball that much it kills the clock and the sheer number of pass plays you can run can drop by a significant margin just because if I throw an incomplete pass, and WR doesnt catch the ball.  the clock stops.

If I run the ball get 5 or 8 yards, the clock will run off likely close to 40 seconds per play.   over a large number of runs that can really add up.

I have no doubt his piece of the pie in the pass game will proportionately be the same as last year.  maybe even slightly larger.  but the whole pie(meaning the whole of the pass game) is smaller.   I'm guessing at least 10 to 20% smaller.

Hed have to increase his efficiency substantially to make up for that if hes gonna repeat last years numbers.

[listen2me 23 1,906]

I think its a sound post.  Not that Carroll has much to do with offense.  But Raiders would be dumb not to get him his targets.  They paid a good asset to take him where they did and he came in guns blazing.  But I could see the reasons for not taking him and taking Trey on the way back in the next round.  If you are looking to grab a top TE that is.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,593]

41 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

hey I appreciate all you said, but what about the fact that the team is likely going to be a run based offense?

when you run the ball that much it kills the clock and the sheer number of pass plays you can run can drop by a significant margin just because if I throw an incomplete pass, and WR doesnt catch the ball.  the clock stops.

If I run the ball get 5 or 8 yards, the clock will run off likely close to 40 seconds per play.   over a large number of runs that can really add up.

I have no doubt his piece of the pie in the pass game will proportionately be the same as last year.  maybe even slightly larger.  but the whole pie(meaning the whole of the pass game) is smaller.   I'm guessing at least 10 to 20% smaller.

Hed have to increase his efficiency substantially to make up for that if hes gonna repeat last years numbers.

They can be a more run based offense.  It's also why I said that I think Bowers TD's numbers go up a lot... because I think they'll be able to score more TD's by having a more efficient offense.  Remember, it's not just the running game that's improving, it's the caliber of QB play too.

Here's how I think things could break in Vegas

 

2024: 153 targets, 112 receptions, 1194 yards (10.7 ypr), 5 TD's = 261.4 fp
2025: 110 targets, 81 receptions, 1028 yards (12.7 ypr), 12 TD's = 255.8 fp

That's not a significant drop in my opinion.  Even if he gets only 10 TD's, that's still 243 points.

 

I think there's a greater chance that McBride's numbers suffer because of the increased role of Harrison and Kittles' numbers suffering assuming he's going to miss probably 2 games (safe side), and others like McCaffrey, Aiyuk, and Pearsall being healthy.

[weepaws 3,233]

If you draft him, you will be overpaying, he better be the #1 te, anything else, is losing.  

[listen2me 23 1,906]

Plenty of good TE seasons with heavy run based offense.  Kittle.  Mark Andrews.  Sure he had Phillip Rivers but Gates was a HOFer while seeing Ladanian get tons of carries and plenty of catches for much of his career.  So not sure where running the ball is a hit to the TE.  Id actually think a TE would benefit from a threat on the ground.  

[listen2me 23 1,906]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

If you draft him, you will be overpaying, he better be the #1 te, anything else, is losing.  

If Bowers finishes 2nd and McBride finishes 6th....McBride owners would be losing more. 

[crackills 20]

There is quiet a bit of risk with drafting a TE early as whole. Bowers will still finish top 5.. but is that worth a 2nd rd pick? .. probably not. Kittle in the 3/4th is the best combo of risk and gain IMO. With no Debo and crappy WRs they have to feed him the ball. I would take a chance on him at the top of the 4th vs Bowers in the 2nd. 

Its not just if he is the top TE .. its how much better he is than the next guy and the guy after. So if for example top 3 TE are all projected to score within 20pts of each other.. then I would think thrice about using a high pick on Bowers

If you cant get Kittle, i would wait until rd8+ for Njoku, Ferguson.. or even Ertz as they all have a high chance to outplay their ADP

 

[Matt Mueller 147]

Saw a stat that a very high % of Bowers stats came in the 4th quarter last year.

When the Eagles were resting Barkley for instance he was still out there playing.

I do wonder if the Raiders are ‘better’ and aren’t always in catchup mode late if some of his counting stats come down. 

[weepaws 3,233]

Or, he could be the reason why they won’t be in catch up mode as often.  He was a rookie last season

[Ray_T 763]

3 hours ago, Matt Mueller said:

Saw a stat that a very high % of Bowers stats came in the 4th quarter last year.

When the Eagles were resting Barkley for instance he was still out there playing.

I do wonder if the Raiders are ‘better’ and aren’t always in catchup mode late if some of his counting stats come down. 

interesting.  I've known a few garbage time darlings at WR.  never known one at TE but not surprised.

remember Cecil Shorts with the Jags?  one of the best garbage time players of all time.   put up minimal yardage against man coverage for 3/4 of the game, but once the zone and the prevent defenses come out in the 4th quarter he'll get 5 catches for 65  yards and a TD  to add to the 30  yards he got in the rest of the game and end up with a pretty decent night.

[TBayXXXVII 2,593]

12 hours ago, Matt Mueller said:

Saw a stat that a very high % of Bowers stats came in the 4th quarter last year.

When the Eagles were resting Barkley for instance he was still out there playing.

I do wonder if the Raiders are ‘better’ and aren’t always in catchup mode late if some of his counting stats come down. 

Last line... how much better are they going to be?  8 wins (like the Cardinals last year [see below])?  8 wins (like the Ravens in 2021 when Andrews was TE1 with 17.7 fpg while they ran the ball 517 times)? 14 wins (like the Chiefs in 2022 who ran the ball 417 times and Kelce was TE with 18.6 fpg)?

9 hours ago, Ray_T said:

interesting.  I've known a few garbage time darlings at WR.  never known one at TE but not surprised.

remember Cecil Shorts with the Jags?  one of the best garbage time players of all time.   put up minimal yardage against man coverage for 3/4 of the game, but once the zone and the prevent defenses come out in the 4th quarter he'll get 5 catches for 65  yards and a TD  to add to the 30  yards he got in the rest of the game and end up with a pretty decent night.

I'm not surprised by that, the Raiders stunk and were losing  a LOT.  This is what happens with a lot teams that stink.

Split       Tgt    Rec   Yds    Y/R   TD    1D    Ctch%    Y/Tgt 
1st Qtr    25    19    236    12.4    1      9    76.0%    9.4
2nd Qtr   39    26    269    10.3    0     14    66.7%    6.9
3rd Qtr    30    22    244    11.1    2     11    73.3%    8.1
4th Qtr    59    45    445    9.9      2      27    76.3%    7.5

 

He was also at his least efficient in the 4th as well, because teams were giving up those shorter passes.  If the offense is better, it would stand to reason that he'd likely be closer to the 12.4 y/r total for the year than the 10.7 that he was last year.   To note, that was the case with Jakobi Meyers as well.  This is normal though, on teams that are losing a lot.  If you want to make the argument that Bowers targets are going to go down because they're going to run more, then you're going to have to assume that they're winning more games.  If they're winning more games, they're likely to be more efficient and scoring more points.

Look at Arizona the last 2 years.  They were 4-13 in 2023 and 8-9 last year... they doubled their win total.  They increased their ppg by 4 while reducing their number of plays by like 30.  Last year, they ran the ball 463 times (80 more than the Raiders last year), and still managed to get Trey McBride 147 targets, 111 receptions, & 1146 TD's.  Jakobi Meyers isn't the talent that Marvin Harrison is.  Kyler Murray had a career year as a passer... and that wasn't even as good as what Geno Smith has been the last 3.

Here's another point.  Teams now think that the Raiders are going to be more run heavy, right?  They know that because even we assume that, right?  They're not going to dedicate more resources to stopping the run?  If they do that, aren't they limiting the resources to stop the pass?  If that's happening, and Bowers is the Raiders best pass catcher, isn't he the most likely beneficiary of that?  Now, if the Raiders added a top end caliber WR, I'd be total agreement with you guys, but they didn't.  They added 2 players that will help Bowers be better... a RB and better QB.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,593]

13 hours ago, crackills said:

There is quiet a bit of risk with drafting a TE early as whole. Bowers will still finish top 5.. but is that worth a 2nd rd pick? .. probably not. Kittle in the 3/4th is the best combo of risk and gain IMO. With no Debo and crappy WRs they have to feed him the ball. I would take a chance on him at the top of the 4th vs Bowers in the 2nd. 

Its not just if he is the top TE .. its how much better he is than the next guy and the guy after. So if for example top 3 TE are all projected to score within 20pts of each other.. then I would think thrice about using a high pick on Bowers

If you cant get Kittle, i would wait until rd8+ for Njoku, Ferguson.. or even Ertz as they all have a high chance to outplay their ADP

 

You guys do remember that the Niners drafted a WR in the 1st round in 2024, right?  It wasn't Jennings, who had 975 yards and 6 TD's.  I'm not saying Pearsall will be great, but the Niners saw enough from him to say, "Deebo?  We can move him".   The dude had 31 receptions for 400 yards and 3 TD's on only 46 targets.  Why are those guys "crappy receivers"?  Plus, no expectation that McCaffrey will be healthy (like he is every other year)?  Plus, Aiyuk will be back at some point.

 

None of them are worth a pick that high, but if I'm taking one, I'm taking the guy who's the teams' 1st read... Bowers.  I'm not taking any of those 3, but like you, I'm fine with taking Njoku or Engram, or Kraft, much later in the draft.

[crackills 20]

8 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You guys do remember that the Niners drafted a WR in the 1st round in 2024, right?  It wasn't Jennings, who had 975 yards and 6 TD's.  I'm not saying Pearsall will be great, but the Niners saw enough from him to say, "Deebo?  We can move him".   The dude had 31 receptions for 400 yards and 3 TD's on only 46 targets.  Why are those guys "crappy receivers"?  Plus, no expectation that McCaffrey will be healthy (like he is every other year)?  Plus, Aiyuk will be back at some point.

 

None of them are worth a pick that high, but if I'm taking one, I'm taking the guy who's the teams' 1st read... Bowers.  I'm not taking any of those 3, but like you, I'm fine with taking Njoku or Engram, or Kraft, much later in the draft.

Jennings is hurt and unhappy about contract. 
Aiyuk wont be ready until (at best) mid season

Pearsall is at best a #2WR  (at least based on his play so far)  and is not the reason they got rid of Debo. Debo played a different role.

Kittle is still best on team at beating man coverage .. Mcafrey and him will primarily get touches vacated by Debo. 

There is risk here as well... Niners can focus on running the ball again and make Kittle block more often. As far as Bowers.. if we learned anything from Det, having one the of top TEs in the game the last few years forgot to use him last year because the running game was killing it. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,593]

31 minutes ago, crackills said:

Jennings is hurt and unhappy about contract. 
Aiyuk wont be ready until (at best) mid season

Pearsall is at best a #2WR  (at least based on his play so far)  and is not the reason they got rid of Debo. Debo played a different role.

Kittle is still best on team at beating man coverage .. Mcafrey and him will primarily get touches vacated by Debo. 

There is risk here as well... Niners can focus on running the ball again and make Kittle block more often. As far as Bowers.. if we learned anything from Det, having one the of top TEs in the game the last few years forgot to use him last year because the running game was killing it. 

Yes, there's risk everywhere, it just seems that the risk is only being applied towards Bowers... which is my point.

If that's the case, that Jennings isn't at full speed and Pearsall is only a 2 (yes, I know Aiyku won't be back for a while... and that wasn't my point about Deebo), then teams will key in on Kittle and force Purdy to spread the ball around, meaning, he's likely to get less targets and be less productive.  He wasn't getting that many targets in the first place.  We already saw what happens with Bowers when they key in on him.

Detroit is not the same thing.  The running game has nothing to do with LaPorta.  Yes, Detroit ran the ball 30 more times than in 2023, yes, they threw the ball 66 less times... but, Goff completed only 17 less passes but still managed to throw for over 50 more yards and 7 more TD's.  Volume and production was still there.  The thing that hurt LaPorta was Jameson Williams.  He had 49 more targets, 650 more yards, and 5 more TD's than the prior year.   Gibbs, on the same amount of receptions, had 200 more yards and 3 more TD's.  Teams were keying in more on Williams, so instead of force feeding LaPorta, they just spread the ball around more.

[Maximum Overkill 2,171]

13 hours ago, crackills said:

Jennings is hurt and unhappy about contract

He's not hurt. He's hurt because he wants a new contract. Give him a new contract and watch how he's miraculously healed. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,593]

1 hour ago, Maximum Overkill said:

He's not hurt. He's hurt because he wants a new contract. Give him a new contract and watch how he's miraculously healed. 

Yeah, that's probably the case, I just didn't find the need to delve into that and just grant his premise to prove a point.

Personally, I find this topic perplexing.  Last year, Bowers was TE3 based on fpg, not TE1.  He was TE1 because he was healthy.  I expect that to be the same or similar this year.  You're not just drafting for production, you're drafting for consistency and reliability.  If Bowers ends up as TE4 and averages the ppg that he did last year, is the person drafting him going to care that they took him there?  Doubt it... they got what they drafted.  So what if someone else or a couple others outscored him.

If McBride got his average ppg in the 1 game he missed, he'd have outscored Bowers by 2.71 total points, that equated to 1.6 yards per game.  That's nothing.  Kittle would've outscored Bowers by 5.44 points, so 3.2 yards per game.  Nothing.  So what?  The drop off in talent between pick 18 (Bowers), and pick 27 (McBride), is virtually non-existent.  There is a bigger drop off between Bowers and Kittle, but there's also a much greater likelihood that Kittle misses games.

Willing to bet that the vast majority of people drafting Kittle, are taking another TE in rounds 10 to 12... 'just in case'.  Odds are, the value you saved by waiting on Kittle by taking him at 38 instead of Bowers at 18, you lost most of it by taking a TE in R's 10 to 12 where you can get a guy like Christian Kirk, Marquise Brown, Keenan Allen, Cam Skattebo, orJayden Higgins who may end up being a solid RB2, WR2, or WR3.

Give me the #1 target on a team who's likely to play all 17 games, and I'll be happy.  Rather than a guy who's going to be on a team will actively try to force feed a WR they took in the top 5 or a guy who misses a couple games every year and on the wrong side of 30.

[Ray_T 763]

16 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

He's not hurt. He's hurt because he wants a new contract. Give him a new contract and watch how he's miraculously healed. 

I'm sure hes trying to take advantage of whatever leverage he has got.

With Deebo I think that was just as much a salary dump as it was anything else.  Shanny is quite practical that way.    he will run the players into  the ground if it gets him another win.   and so be it.  thats what he is paid to do.

 

 

[Skinny_Bastard 157]

On 8/14/2025 at 9:03 PM, jrokh said:

Who else are they going to throw it  to?

Megatron 2.0 - Thornton Jr.

[Showboat 257]

19 hours ago, Skinny_Bastard said:

Megatron 2.0 - Thornton Jr.

I'm hoping he ends up being this year's Puka Nacua (the day 3 pick that turns into a star).

[justforbeer 41]

I think these are all great points.

I am just worried that when they make it to the Super Bowl and they’re at the 1 yard line and there’s eight seconds left in the game and it’s second down and goal. They fool everyone and try to throw it to Brock and he drops it and it gets intercepted and the game is over.
Brady wins again!

And they should’ve just handed it off to Jeanty!

[Bier Meister 1,737]

he could very well remain te#1, but i think the whole position dips this year

[Skinny_Bastard 157]

It's going to be Jeanty and Brower all day long.  Brower is still in the ascend and Jeanty will be given every opportunity to produce.

[weepaws 3,233]

That’s what I like about Meyers.  

[Matt Mueller 147]

Bowers is going to be great but just as adding Barkley kind of capped AJ Browns ceiling I do wonder what adding Jeanty, Mostert and now a washed Cooper will do to Bowers overall ceiling.

As others mentioned offenses and be great and someone can still have more a Laporta overall down year

[weepaws 3,233]

I don’t see how Barkley capped AJ Brown, in 13 games last season he had the same amount of tds scored but played in four less games. And his per rec avg was 16, if he played in seventeen games he would produce more ff points then he dud in 23, and he avg more points per game last yr than he did the season without Barkley.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,593]

2 hours ago, Matt Mueller said:

Bowers is going to be great but just as adding Barkley kind of capped AJ Browns ceiling I do wonder what adding Jeanty, Mostert and now a washed Cooper will do to Bowers overall ceiling.

As others mentioned offenses and be great and someone can still have more a Laporta overall down year

Last year, Eagles RB's ran the ball over 450 times.  They ran that much because they were winning a lot.  I don't think the Raiders are going to be winning that much to get their RB's even to 400 carries.  Let's say they do and they throw the ball 100 less times and put them at 535.   The Eagles threw the ball 448 times.  Last year in Seattle, Geno Smith threw the ball 578 and managed to get JSN 137 targets, Metcalf 108, Lockett 74, and Fant 64.  That's 4 guys over 60.  Last year, the Raiders only had 3 guys with more 50. I don't think the Raiders or Geno will have a problem getting Bowers 140+ targets.

[TBayXXXVII 2,593]

14 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I don’t see how Barkley capped AJ Brown, in 13 games last season he had the same amount of tds scored but played in four less games. And his per rec avg was 16, if he played in seventeen games he would produce more ff points then he dud in 23, and he avg more points per game last yr than he did the season without Barkley.  

AJ Brown average 16.7 fpg last year... he averages 17.0 in 2023.  The drop off is rather negligible, so yeah, Barkley didn't really have a negative impact on Brown.