Political violence

[squistion 2,366]

10 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

This is an attack?

Squis going to post condolences tweets forgetting we know what he’s posted

Yes, it suggests I made the consolences posts to deflect from other things I have said in the past. 

I have no idea what Hell Toupee is talking about and asked him to explain what posts of mine he was referring to. He never replied because he had nothing to back up his statement, he was making up stuff about me as usual. 

[weepaws 3,251]

Hate comes from the enemy.  

[Meglamaniac 711]

1 minute ago, TheNewGirl said:

That's why I am curious. 

Mental illness doesn't need to exist WITH evil; plenty of people have a mental illness (depression, anxiety, BPD, bi-polar), but where does the evil come from? 

JMHO

Evil= lack of empathy, a trait of many psycopaths.

They don't view life, human life as we do and don't see killing as something that is wrong and in many cases it's justified for external reasons

[HellToupee 2,003]

2 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

That's why I am curious. 

Mental illness doesn't need to exist WITH evil; plenty of people have a mental illness (depression, anxiety, BPD, bi-polar), but where does the evil come from? 

A person dealing with mental issues isn’t evil and an evil person doesn’t have to be mentally ill. IMO periodically evil creeps back into the world throughout history. It seems to be creeping back into again 

[posty 2,780]

39 minutes ago, Strike said:

Say a wife kills her husband for his million dollar insurance policy.  Is she mentally ill or just evil?

Or the Menendez brothers...

[TheNewGirl 1,576]

2 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

JMHO

Evil= lack of empathy, a trait of many psycopaths.

They don't view life, human life as we do and don't see killing as something that is wrong and in many cases it's justified for external reasons

But even in the definition of evil, psychopathy (mental illness) is mentioned. Lack of empathy is present in several mental illness symptoms. 

[TheNewGirl 1,576]

2 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

A person dealing with mental issues isn’t evil and an evil person doesn’t have to be mentally ill. IMO periodically evil creeps back into the world throughout history. It seems to be creeping back into again 

What makes the evil person evil? What makes a good person good? 

 

[The Real timschochet 7,118]

4 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

JMHO

Evil= lack of empathy, a trait of many psycopaths.

They don't view life, human life as we do and don't see killing as something that is wrong and in many cases it's justified for external reasons

I don’t think an evil person is necessarily lacking empathy. Some of the worst Nazi murderers absolutely loved their families, animals, small children, etc. That didn’t stop them performing atrocities. 

[Meglamaniac 711]

Just now, TheNewGirl said:

What makes the evil person evil? What makes a good person good? 

 

We'll never know, we can only guess

[Strike 5,835]

9 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

How so? 

I mean, it's possible to be mentally ill without evil, and it's possible to be evil without mental illness. I am willing to learn more about this. 

In the case of murdering someone for money, that seems mentally ill and evil to me. But, if we are talking about someone who is mentally ill and say...self harms like cuts themselves or goes into fits or something, they aren't evil. 

What's an example of evil without mental illness? 

I gave you one.  Not necessarily all, but there are reasons besides mental illness that a woman might murder her husband for money.  She might just be incredibly selfish or full of herself.  Maybe she doesn't really love the bloke and finds out he has this massive life insurance policy.  She decides she wants to be rid of him and would love the lifestyle that money would allow her to have.   Clearly, her mind works differently than most people and in particular, mine.  But just because someone's mind works differently doesn't make them mentally ill.  

I've said this before and I'll say it again here.  Maybe it will explain my stance a little more.  I think every one of us exhibits traits of what our current "mental health professionals" classify as mental illness. We all might be just a LITTLE schizo, or paranoid, or some other mental illness or combination of them.  It helps explain why some of us are more comfortable in different situations and all sorts of how we act.  If my putting "mental health professional" in quotes suggests I'm not sold on that profession you'd be correct.  Of "health professionals" they would fall at the bottom of the barrel in credibility as far as I'm concerned.  So, given that I believe we could all be diagnosed with various but usually low levels of all sorts of mental illness, it's easy to want to explain people's actions away, especially extreme actions, as mental illness either partially or totally.  For me, it's simple - Does the person know what they're doing either violates our societal norms or that it is wrong.  If they know this and do it anyways, I'm not going to offer them excuses such as mental illness.  

[The Real timschochet 7,118]

Just now, TheNewGirl said:

What makes the evil person evil? What makes a good person good? 

 

Is this a philosophical question or a scientific question? Or both? Also, I think it’s possible for a good person to commit evil acts and vise versa, without permanently defining them as such. 

[Meglamaniac 711]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t think an evil person is necessarily lacking empathy. Some of the worst Nazi murderers absolutely loved their families, animals, small children, etc. That didn’t stop them performing atrocities. 

I don't agree, it takes a complete lack of empathy for others to do evil things, history is littered with examples of pycopaths pretending to love SOs but it's just pretend.

 

I think the show Dexter really explores this issue well

[TheNewGirl 1,576]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

I gave you one.  Not necessarily all, but there are reasons besides mental illness that a woman might murder her husband for money.  She might just be incredibly selfish or full of herself.  Maybe she doesn't really love the bloke and finds out he has this massive life insurance policy.  She decides she wants to be rid of him and would love the lifestyle that money would allow her to have.   Clearly, her mind works differently than most people and in particular, mine.  But just because someone's mind works differently doesn't make them mentally ill.  

I've said this before and I'll say it again here.  Maybe it will explain my stance a little more.  I think every one of us exhibits traits of what our current "mental health professionals" classify as mental illness. We all might be just a LITTLE schizo, or paranoid, or some other mental illness or combination of them.  It helps explain why some of us are more comfortable in different situations and all sorts of how we act.  If my putting "mental health professional" in quotes suggests I'm not sold on that profession you'd be correct.  Of "health professionals" they would fall at the bottom of the barrel in credibility as far as I'm concerned.  So, given that I believe we could all be diagnosed with various but usually low levels of all sorts of mental illness, it's easy to want to explain people's actions away, especially extreme actions, as mental illness either partially or totally.  For me, it's simple - Does the person know what they're doing either violates our societal norms or that it is wrong.  If they know this and do it anyways, I'm not going to offer them excuses such as mental illness.  

Thank you for this response. 

I think in your example, murder for money shows that there is mental illness, and that's probably where the slippery slope is. Murder - the ability to kill another human being without caring about the consequences TO ME means that there is something seriously wrong with you. 

For recent events sake, let's say that the the Kirk shooter isn't mentally ill. Never shown any signs of mental illness, got good grades, had a good paying job, contributed, and let's for the sake of argument say he had a family of his own. One day he just decides he's going to kill this guy. Is he only evil? Or is the fact that he had the ability somewhere in him to plan, pull the trigger, and run NOT a sign that maybe he really isn't mentally well? 

[Fnord 2,370]

To me, evil is a spectrum. Everyone is on it, since everyone has committed some kind of evil deed. Whether it be punching another kid on the schoolyard, IRL or cyber bullying, adultery, assault, murder, etc. It exists independent of mental illness, but often the two are intertwined, especially when it comes to the commission of evil acts.

If the spectrum is 1-100, most normal folks are under 20. We've done bad, sometimes horrible things, but often those acts were not born from pure malice. They were reactions to perceived wrongs, or doing something without thinking before realizing you shouldn't have. Your average street thug that's stolen, possibly committed some violent felonies but not murder, I'd put at around 50.

People that are willing to commit murder for ideological purposes are 90+. I would argue that someone stealing money from a pension fund, ruining the financial stability of many others, would come close to equating with murder. Let's put them at around 80. Even these people are often not defined by the evil that they put into the world. They still have loved ones, or kids, and have brought at least some goodness to others.

Nobody is the villain of their own story, right?

[TheNewGirl 1,576]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Is this a philosophical question or a scientific question? Or both? Also, I think it’s possible for a good person to commit evil acts and vise versa, without permanently defining them as such. 

If you need it to be categorized, more philosophical. 

Is there science around good vs evil? 

[The Real timschochet 7,118]

4 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

I don't agree, it takes a complete lack of empathy for others to do evil things, history is littered with examples of pycopaths pretending to love SOs but it's just pretend.

 

I think the show Dexter really explores this issue well

Well Dexter is only one example. Let’s take two other TV characters. In your opinion: 

Tony Soprano: good or evil? 
 

Walter White: good or evil? 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,700]

33 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You seem to be taking issue with my statement that political violence is not particularly the work of conservatives or liberals. You are a partisan conservative and believe that it is mostly the work of liberals. I don’t think I’m going to convince you otherwise. But I will simply point out that your beliefs on this are largely based on emotion and selective memory rather than on a really objective analysis. IMO. 

Yeah, you’re real objective. You went back to Alexander Hamilton but skipped past what happened a few years ago.  Quit pointing fingers about partisanship and own up to your own. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,422]

I just want to say my disdain for the left liberals and democrats is deeply rooted in family history. This morning my mom flat out yells at me for posting about Kirk’s death. Then turned it on me how he’s an anti semite woman hating gay bashing wanted kids shot guy.  Basically the same Twitter meme I expect from squid.  Anyways I don’t wish death up anyone. Never have. Never will.  I just don’t understand when you never listen to a guy how you can take a meme and develop such hatred that she’s “disowning” me again 

pathetic 

[The Real timschochet 7,118]

1 minute ago, TheNewGirl said:

If you need it to be categorized, more philosophical. 

Is there science around good vs evil? 

No but there certainly is around mental illness. 

[Fnord 2,370]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yeah, you’re real objective. You went back to Alexander Hamilton but skipped past what happened a few years ago.  Quit pointing fingers about partisanship and own up to your own. 

Why would he feel compelled to do it when you won't? We're all carrying some level of responsibility for treating each other like crap.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,700]

Just now, Fnord said:

Why would he feel compelled to do it when you won't? We're all carrying some level of responsibility for treating each other like crap.

I have never insinuated that I was not a partisan. So what are you talking about? 

[Fnord 2,370]

1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

I just want to say my disdain for the left liberals and democrats is deeply rooted in family history. This morning my mom flat out yells at me for posting about Kirk’s death. Then turned it on me how he’s an anti semite woman hating gay bashing wanted kids shot guy.  Basically the same Twitter meme I expect from squid.  Anyways I don’t wish death up anyone. Never have. Never will.  I just don’t understand when you never listen to a guy how you can take a meme and develop such hatred that she’s “disowning” me again 

pathetic 

This is a mirror image of why I have a problem with religious zealots.

[MDC 7,650]

I think the left and right are about even on political violence. The left has the edge on property damage but righties lead on murder.

[Fnord 2,370]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

I have never insinuated that I was not a partisan. So what are you talking about? 

 

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

Why would he feel compelled to do it when you won't?

 

[Meglamaniac 711]

Tony was a complete pyscopath

Walter was a bit of an mystery

Niether were good

 

[The Real timschochet 7,118]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yeah, you’re real objective. You went back to Alexander Hamilton but skipped past what happened a few years ago.  Quit pointing fingers about partisanship and own up to your own. 

Have I been guilty of criticizing conservatives for political violence in the past while ignoring violence from liberals? Sure. Am I a partisan? Yes. 
 

Your turn. 

[The Real timschochet 7,118]

3 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

Tony was a complete pyscopath

Walter was a bit of an mystery

Niether were good

 

I would argue that Tony loved his son and daughter. That wasn’t fake. So how do you square that with your beliefs? 

[Strike 5,835]

3 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

Thank you for this response. 

I think in your example, murder for money shows that there is mental illness, and that's probably where the slippery slope is. Murder - the ability to kill another human being without caring about the consequences TO ME means that there is something seriously wrong with you. 

For recent events sake, let's say that the the Kirk shooter isn't mentally ill. Never shown any signs of mental illness, got good grades, had a good paying job, contributed, and let's for the sake of argument say he had a family of his own. One day he just decides he's going to kill this guy. Is he only evil? Or is the fact that he had the ability somewhere in him to plan, pull the trigger, and run NOT a sign that maybe he really isn't mentally well? 

Right, but they DO care about the consequences.  They aren't just murdering someone.  They're meticulously planning it out and making it look like an accident to avoid getting caught and ensure they get paid.  If they just kill him and leave evidence all over guaranteeing they get caught they probably have a screw loose.  

For your Kirk example, we really don't have a lot of information yet.  But, I'm working on the premise that he is a TDS infected lib who felt compelled to take action against a prominent conservative.  I'm also entertaining the idea of an actual hired hit but we'll see.  But I see no evidence of mental illness YET.  We'll see when he's caught and we find out more about him.

 

[Meglamaniac 711]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I would argue that Tony loved his son and daughter. That wasn’t fake. So how do you square that with your beliefs? 

It wasn't love he felt for them

[The Real timschochet 7,118]

3 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

It wasn't love he felt for them

OK we disagree. 

[Strike 5,835]

37 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

First off please don’t personalize. I never once posted that it is correct to destroy cities. Nor do I know anyone here who has done so. Nor do I know any prominent Democrat, liberal, or leftist who has done so. I challenge you to show me otherwise. 
 

I haven’t seen conservatives do it either. I HAVE seen jerks on both sides sometimes cheer for bad results (like when @Horseman responded to the Los Angeles fires with “Fock yeah! Fock California! Burn it all down!”) but that’s hardly representative. I have also seen both liberals and conservatives attempt to minimize political violence (Jan 6 being the most obvious example) but that’s not the same as cheering it on. So I reject your entire premise here. 

Don't tell me what to do.  I am pretty careful with what I post and I stand by my posts 99% of the time.  So if I said it, unless I retract it, it's what I meant.  And you are absolutely OK with these thugs destroying cities.  Do you literally post "YEAH DESTROY THAT CITY" like you mentioned @Horseman doing?  No.  You're more subtle than that.  But you are absolutely OK with the ACTIONS themselves.  

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,422]

10 minutes ago, Fnord said:

This is a mirror image of why I have a problem with religious zealots.

I hate religious zealots too 

[The Real timschochet 7,118]

5 minutes ago, Strike said:

Don't tell me what to do.  I am pretty careful with what I post and I stand by my posts 99% of the time.  So if I said it, unless I retract it, it's what I meant.  And you are absolutely OK with these thugs destroying cities.  Do you literally post "YEAH DESTROY THAT CITY" like you mentioned @Horseman doing?  No.  You're more subtle than that.  But you are absolutely OK with the ACTIONS themselves.  

No I’m not. If you’re going to instruct me not to tell you what to do (even though I did use the word “please”) then stop telling me what I’m OK with. 

[TheNewGirl 1,576]

17 minutes ago, MDC said:

I think the left and right are about even on political violence. The left has the edge on property damage but righties lead on murder.

This could be true, however, the left is more likely to down-play the violence from their side. This has been show in media. 

[TheNewGirl 1,576]

14 minutes ago, Strike said:

Right, but they DO care about the consequences.  They aren't just murdering someone.  They're meticulously planning it out and making it look like an accident to avoid getting caught and ensure they get paid.  If they just kill him and leave evidence all over guaranteeing they get caught they probably have a screw loose.  

For your Kirk example, we really don't have a lot of information yet.  But, I'm working on the premise that he is a TDS infected lib who felt compelled to take action against a prominent conservative.  I'm also entertaining the idea of an actual hired hit but we'll see.  But I see no evidence of mental illness YET.  We'll see when he's caught and we find out more about him.

 

Ok, I see where you're coming from. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,614]

23 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well Dexter is only one example. Let’s take two other TV characters. In your opinion: 

Tony Soprano: good or evil?   <--- Never saw it, so can't comment
 

Walter White: good or evil?    <--- Evil, no doubt what-so-ever

 

[Strike 5,835]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No I’m not. If you’re going to instruct me not to tell you what to do (even though I did use the word “please”) then stop telling me what I’m OK with. 

Nope.  Your posts clearly show your stance on this.  Stop Justifying this stuff in your posts and I'll stop calling you out for doing so.

[Meglamaniac 711]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

OK we disagree. 

yep

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,301]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Lol. I know. We can always hope though. It’s already led to some, right? 

When you respond to the extremists like Sandy Cvm Loaf you give them legitimacy.  Stop doing that.  He's one of the ones in the Kirk thread defending the shooting.

[HellToupee 2,003]

36 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well Dexter is only one example. Let’s take two other TV characters. In your opinion: 

Tony Soprano: good or evil? 
 

Walter White: good or evil? 

You’re conflating bad with evil