Interference with or Obstructing Law Enforcement

[Mark Davis 448]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

I just saw the Leavitt press conference. It looks like Noem and Bovino have been spanked and Homan is gonna go wrap this operation up ASAP.

Trump was even kissing Walz’s butt in a truth social post.

They f-ed up, everybody knows it, and now they are gonna leave MN in well-deserved shame.

We shall see, IMO they aren't going to go without getting the state to agree to some level of cooperation.  Both sides have to be able to claim some sort of win here and end this.  It's not good for federal law or the state itself.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,310]

20 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Warning people that ICE is in the area.  That's pretty self evident for anyone with an IQ over 40.

That’s not protesting. That’s interfering. Not covered by the first amendment.  

[Fireballer 2,721]

1 minute ago, Ron_Artest said:

Maga is now defending the murders of American citizens, saying that the 2A doesn't exist, cheering the government terrorizing its cities.

Real republicans are now liberals.  Magas are fascists.

Vagaries and half truths fueled by emotion.  Oh, and the murder thing…continuing to use it where it doesn’t apply does nothing for the sliver of credibility you have

[nobody 3,005]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

So, standing up to masked agents is brave? Finally somebody on the right admits it.

Did you ever do your patriotic duty and interfere with ICE?

[Ron_Artest 2,897]

4 minutes ago, nobody said:

Shouldn't everyone always resist then no matter what since the people detaining you could be imposters?  I mean couldn't they also impersonate cops?

You gotta use judgement, right?  You don't live your life black or white do you?

I used the example of getting pulled over.  I saw it was an officially branded vehicle, officer was respectful, as was I, so I complied.  If he rolled up in an unmarked vehicle and grabbed my handle yelling at me to get the F out I probably would have driven away and called 911.  I give the same advice to my daughters.

[Ron_Artest 2,897]

 

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

That’s not protesting. That’s interfering. Not covered by the first amendment.  

 

On their own, yelling, protesting, honking a horn, blowing a whistle, following, and recording are all clearly First Amendment–protected activities, even if done during law enforcement operations.

https://www.cato.org/blog/dhs-policy-threatening-arresting-ice-observers-violates-their-rights#:~:text=On their own%2C yelling%2C protesting,done during law enforcement operations.

[Fnord 2,757]

3 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

 

 

On their own, yelling, protesting, honking a horn, blowing a whistle, following, and recording are all clearly First Amendment–protected activities, even if done during law enforcement operations.

https://www.cato.org/blog/dhs-policy-threatening-arresting-ice-observers-violates-their-rights#:~:text=On their own%2C yelling%2C protesting,done during law enforcement operations.

Why do you bother?

He'll just be back tomorrow saying the same crap, like your interaction never occurred.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,310]

3 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

 

 

On their own, yelling, protesting, honking a horn, blowing a whistle, following, and recording are all clearly First Amendment–protected activities, even if done during law enforcement operations.

https://www.cato.org/blog/dhs-policy-threatening-arresting-ice-observers-violates-their-rights#:~:text=On their own%2C yelling%2C protesting,done during law enforcement operations.

First three words. 

[SaintsInDome2006 928]

9 minutes ago, nobody said:

Did you ever do your patriotic duty and interfere with ICE?

In my town, ICE did an operation that they pumped as “Bayou Sweep” or some such. They didn’t hit NO but they went out to Republican Kenner & raided the Hispanic & black neighborhoods (apartments). There were people with whistles & such, no one went outdoors. They left eventually.

I really wonder what Southern Republicans & conservatives would do if armed, armored federals went door to door & car to car & on the streets demanding identification. I can tell you in Louisiana that wouldn’t last long & “compliance” would not be quickly forthcoming.

[Fireballer 2,721]

14 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

 

 

On their own, yelling, protesting, honking a horn, blowing a whistle, following, and recording are all clearly First Amendment–protected activities, even if done during law enforcement operations.

https://www.cato.org/blog/dhs-policy-threatening-arresting-ice-observers-violates-their-rights#:~:text=On their own%2C yelling%2C protesting,done during law enforcement operations.

An opinion piece by a liberal think tank.  Do you even read your links?  I’d certainly be interested in some case law though.

[nobody 3,005]

16 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

In my town, ICE did an operation that they pumped as “Bayou Sweep” or some such. They didn’t hit NO but they went out to Republican Kenner & raided the Hispanic & black neighborhoods (apartments). There were people with whistles & such, no one went outdoors. They left eventually.

I really wonder what Southern Republicans & conservatives would do if armed, armored federals went door to door & car to car & on the streets demanding identification. I can tell you in Louisiana that wouldn’t last long & “compliance” would not be quickly forthcoming.

I don't abide stopping people and asking for identification without cause like I think someone mentioned ICE demanding paperwork at a gas station from people pumping gas.  I don't know what the law says on that.  I always thought it was illegal for law enforcement to demand ID from random people.

[Fireballer 2,721]

18 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

First three words. 

So you’re saying that whistling, when mixed with a collaborative effort to ID Feds via illegal license plate ID, may not be protected?   

[Hawkeye21 2,484]

1 hour ago, MDC said:

I get it: You’re a sheep. If a law enforcement officer tried to detain you without cause or assaulted you, you’d lay down and lick his boots. Your safety is more important than your dignity.

We get it, bootlicker.  

How does being douche bag a give a person dignity?  It's called intelligence and there's been a severe lack of it here.

[Hawkeye21 2,484]

1 hour ago, Fnord said:

I'll point out that you're subscribing to the old rules, the ones that have been in place for 249-ish years.

Those rules are gone. You say "take it to court" but this admin has already closed the investigation into Good's killing. We can wait to see what happens with Pretti's, but I'm not holding my breath that an investigation will occur. If they're not going to investigate an officer-involved shooting under highly questionable circumstances, do you think they'll investigate the "agitator" or "criminal" who was wrongfully arrested, beaten and pepper sprayed, driven around for a while, and dropped off 20 miles from his house without a coat in subzero temps?

The point is that right now, in the current climate under current leadership, your confidence that the wrongs will be addressed is no longer valid. They will not. We are being shown that in real time. I used instances of things that have actually occurred in the last few weeks. None of this is hypothetical anymore.

The same rules apply but people stopped following them.  The left has shifted so incredibly far to the extreme that nothing normal seems right to them anymore.

[nobody 3,005]

Just now, Fireballer said:

So you’re saying that whistling, when mixed with a collaborative effort to ID Feds via illegal license plate ID, may not be protected?   

What I learned during covid when my fellow citizens cheered as the government tried to get me fired for not taking a vax I didn't need is that the government can claim anything they want is legal if enough people are cool with it.

From that perspective, I sympathize with the protestors.  

Although, I don't think agitating agents and impeding their movement and operations is an effective or legal way to accomplish their goals.  So my sympathy is used up pretty quick.

[SaintsInDome2006 928]

9 minutes ago, nobody said:

I don't abide stopping people and asking for identification without cause like I think someone mentioned ICE demanding paperwork at a gas station from people pumping gas.  I don't know what the law says on that.  I always thought it was illegal for law enforcement to demand ID from random people.

It is.

[Fnord 2,757]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

The same rules apply but people stopped following them.  The left has shifted so incredibly far to the extreme that nothing normal seems right to them anymore.

It sounds like you're laying 100% of the blame on extremist liberals, which is all liberals based on how you wrote it. With 0% of the blame going toward ICE/CBP agents?

Is that correct? This ain't a gotcha, I respect your opinion and want to make sure I'm not misrepresenting your position.

[Hawkeye21 2,484]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

It sounds like you're laying 100% of the blame on extremist liberals, which is all liberals based on how you wrote it. With 0% of the blame going toward ICE/CBP agents?

Is that correct? This ain't a gotcha, I respect your opinion and want to make sure I'm not misrepresenting your position.

I have zero control over what ICE does.  Right now they are trying to do their job.  There are going to be mistakes made by them, no different than our regular law enforcement.  We have allowed our country to get to this point because of poor immigration policies and border control.  The more people cooperate, the fewer problems there will be.

[Hawkeye21 2,484]

9 minutes ago, nobody said:

What I learned during covid when my fellow citizens cheered as the government tried to get me fired for not taking a vax I didn't need is that the government can claim anything they want is legal if enough people are cool with it.

From that perspective, I sympathize with the protestors.  

Although, I don't think agitating agents and impeding their movement and operations is an effective or legal way to accomplish their goals.  So my sympathy is used up pretty quick.

Exactly.  I was against wearing a mask but I was willing to cooperate in order to keep things peaceful.  If a place required a mask then I was going to wear it instead of making a huge deal out of it.

Some battles are not worth getting into and I have yet to see a battle worth getting into just yet.

[MDC 8,344]

10 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

How does being douche bag a give a person dignity?  It's called intelligence and there's been a severe lack of it here.

I’d say the douche bag is the rent-a thug who shoved a woman to the ground and pepper gassed Prezzi when he tried to protect her. Not the guy who took a face full of pepper gas before getting pistol whipped, beaten and shot.

[Fnord 2,757]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I have zero control over what ICE does.  Right now they are trying to do their job.  There are going to be mistakes made by them, no different than our regular law enforcement.  We have allowed our country to get to this point because of poor immigration policies and border control.  The more people cooperate, the fewer problems there will be.

What if they are doing their jobs very poorly? Or in a manner that directly contradicts established law, procedure, and training? What if they're violating the rights of American citizens, up to and including killing them, and not facing so much as an investigation into said killings?

I agree with the bolded; but cooperation is kind of a 2-way street. If there is no trust that agents are going to act in accordance with the law, then what?

[Hawkeye21 2,484]

1 minute ago, MDC said:

I’d say the douche bag is the rent-a thug who shoved a woman to the ground and pepper gassed Prezzi when he tried to protect her. Not the guy who took a face full of pepper gas before getting pistol whipped, beaten and shot.

Why put yourself in that situation.  We are all responsible for ourselves.  Why put yourself in a place for another person to harm you if they are so terrible?

[MDC 8,344]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Why put yourself in that situation.  

Because you’re a man. You wouldn’t get it.  

[Hawkeye21 2,484]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

What if they are doing their jobs very poorly? Or in a manner that directly contradicts established law, procedure, and training? What if they're violating the rights of American citizens, up to and including killing them, and not facing so much as an investigation into said killings?

I agree with the bolded; but cooperation is kind of a 2-way street. If there is no trust that agents are going to act in accordance with the law, then what?

There are procedures for holding people accountable.

[Hawkeye21 2,484]

1 minute ago, MDC said:

Because you’re a man. You wouldn’t get it.  

So... that means you're a woman?  Not sure this came out the way you wanted it to.

[League Champion 1,998]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

So... that means you're a woman?  Not sure this came out the way you wanted it to.

@MDC just admitted that he's queer! 

[MDC 8,344]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

So... that means you're a woman?  Not sure this came out the way you wanted it to.

Prezzi put himself in harms way because he’s a man. You’d have let the ICE officer assault a woman right in front of you and then spit shined his boots with your tongue. 

[Hawkeye21 2,484]

Just now, MDC said:

Prezzi put himself in harms way because he’s a man. You’d have let the ICE officer assault a woman right in front of you and then spit shined his boots with your tongue. 

Depends on what she did for that to happen to her.  I would not let any random person hurt another woman though.  These are not the same situations though.

[Gladiators 2,057]

Hey, that wasn't nice of ICE to shove some poor lady to the ground.  Perhaps I should start wrasslin' with ICE...And oh by the way, I have a weapon on me.  Brilliant! 

[MDC 8,344]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Depends on what she did for that to happen to her.  I would not let any random person hurt another woman though.  These are not the same situations though.

Based on what we’ve been seeing she probably was filming the thug. That seems to be all it takes to trigger these goons. 

[SaintsInDome2006 928]

4 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

Hey, that wasn't nice of ICE to shove some poor lady to the ground.  Perhaps I should start wrasslin' with ICE...And oh by the way, I have a weapon on me.  Brilliant! 

Anyone who’s been to Mardi Gras knows what the answer here is - do what the police say, even if they’ve mistakenly thought you were involved, don’t argue, just do it.

Having said that, Pretti put his gun hand up - empty, palms open. The rule in this country is not if you don’t comply with an officer (& this was a Customs & Border agent, not a cop) you will be shot dead for it.

[Strike 6,199]

1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Anyone who’s been to Mardi Gras knows what the answer here is - do what the police say, even if they’ve mistakenly thought you were involved, don’t argue, just do it.

Having said that, Pretti put his gun hand up - empty, palms open. The rule in this country is not if you don’t comply with an officer (& this was a Customs & Border agent, not a cop) you will be shot dead for it.

Ah, the old "Hands up Don't Shoot."

[Fnord 2,757]

14 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

There are procedures for holding people accountable.

There are. What if they are not being carried out by the Feds?

[SaintsInDome2006 928]

Just now, Strike said:

Ah, the old "Hands up Don't Shoot."

Yeah I know that’s from some old controversy, I can’t even remember now. Customs agent didn’t even know he had a gun when they threw him on the ground.

[Strike 6,199]

Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Yeah I know that’s from some old controversy, I can’t even remember now. Customs agent didn’t even know he had a gun when they threw him on the ground.

We know someone kept yelling "Gun" so we can be pretty sure it was a very tense situation.  And you've got protestors blowing whistles and doing anything they can to distract and escalate the situation and it's just a poweder keg waiting to blow.  And here we are 

[TimHauck 3,571]

3 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

He did not deserve to die from his ignorance but when one interjects chaos into uncertain and volitile situations the situation can turn bad.  

Hey @Engorgeous George I’m not sure some of the bootlickers here agree with this sentence you wrote about this incident.

[Fireballer 2,721]

25 minutes ago, MDC said:

Prezzi put himself in harms way because he’s a man. You’d have let the ICE officer assault a woman right in front of you and then spit shined his boots with your tongue. 

Why did the officer push her?

[SaintsInDome2006 928]

23 minutes ago, Strike said:

We know someone kept yelling "Gun" so we can be pretty sure it was a very tense situation.  And you've got protestors blowing whistles and doing anything they can to distract and escalate the situation and it's just a poweder keg waiting to blow.  And here we are 

Agreed. Taking their motives at face value, I somewhat think DHS - which was designed to coordinate intelligence between domestic agencies - is trying to do the impossible. They’ve got CBP, BOP, HSI, SRT & lord knows who else doing crowd control. I also realize local PD should be there. But I think the problem is instead of getting a warrant for person X at place Y at time Z they are mostly doing uncoordinated sweeps. People swarm around them, the tension heightens & events like this are inevitable. There will be more if they don’t leave.

[Hawkeye21 2,484]

15 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Agreed. Taking their motives at face value, I somewhat think DHS - which was designed to coordinate intelligence between domestic agencies - is trying to do the impossible. They’ve got CBP, BOP, HSI, SRT & lord knows who else doing crowd control. I also realize local PD should be there. But I think the problem is instead of getting a warrant for person X at place Y at time Z they are mostly doing uncoordinated sweeps. People swarm around them, the tension heightens & events like this are inevitable. There will be more if they don’t leave.

Too many stupid people all in the same area trying to do what they think is the right thing.  It's chaos.

[SaintsInDome2006 928]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Too many stupid people all in the same area trying to do what they think is the right thing.  It's chaos.

Which is why you don’t do the operation in this manner. Constitutional issues aside.