Trump's Wall

[RLLD 3,455]

Why are people against this wall again? From what I understand, the people that actually live on the border want it. Shouldn't we put a bit of credence in what they have to say?

 

1) Its a complete waste of time and money; there are already walls....they tunnel under them.

2) Improving our immigration policies and systems is a far more worthy effort.

3) Instead of alienating, how about we embrace these people who actually want to work, I kinda like having them around.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

 

1) Its a complete waste of time and money; there are already walls....they tunnel under them.

2) Improving our immigration policies and systems is a far more worthy effort.

3) Instead of alienating, how about we embrace these people who actually want to work, I kinda like having them around.

What if the tunneling could be stopped? I don't think that should be all that difficult. And like I said, I'm giving what the people who are directly affected by an open border have to say some weight. It's easy for the rest of us to decry it when it's not our community that pays the price.

[edjr 5,564]

Great Wall of China we'll call it

 

we will build it out of nice plates and glasses

[KSB2424 3,083]

Building a Wall is more of a metaphor for physically "securing the border" to me. I don't take it literally as if we are going to build an actual 2,000 mile wall.

 

Maybe there is an actual wall in some place along the border where it makes sense, maybe its fencing, maybe it's more patrol agents maybe its the use of technology like cameras and drones to secure the border. Dependent on where it's at, the landscape, the traffic of illegals, etc is dependent on what type of physical security is used and implemented.

 

And of course you do that in conjunction with modernizing the VISA and guest workers programs to better track those here legally who stay beyond when they shouldn't.

 

We can also stream line and make it easier, faster and safer for the immigrants who want to stay here to be granted LEGAL access and start paying taxes and contributing to our country.

 

I see no reason why we can't or shouldn't do all those things. I'm not all that big of a fan of Bobby Jindal but he said it best a few years ago in regards to immigration. We make it easier to come here illegally and difficult to do so legally. It should be the opposite.

 

JINDAL: When it comes to immigration, we've got a completely backwards system today. What I believe we need is a system of high walls and a broad gate. Right now, we've got the opposite. We've got low walls and a narrow gate. What I mean by that is we make it very difficult for people to come here legally. We make it very easy for people to come here illegally. As the son of immigrants, I think we should let more people come in to our country legally, because it's compassionate for them and because it's good for us. When people want to come here, work hard, play by the rules, that's good for America. And so, I think that this is a problem we can address. I think our system right now is completely backwards.

 

With all that said, Mexico isn't paying for the "wall". That is just Trump riling up the masses.

[RLLD 3,455]

What if the tunneling could be stopped? I don't think that should be all that difficult. And like I said, I'm giving what the people who are directly affected by an open border have to say some weight. It's easy for the rest of us to decry it when it's not our community that pays the price.

 

I think the way to stop tunneling is to have a more current approach toward immigration.

[edjr 5,564]

Building a Wall is more of a metaphor for physically "securing the border" to me.

 

If it were anyone other than Drumpf, I'd agree.

[Mike Honcho 4,034]

Building a Wall is more of a metaphor for physically "securing the border" to me. I don't take it literally as if we are going to build an actual 2,000 mile wall.

 

Maybe there is an actual wall in some place along the border where it makes sense, maybe its fencing, maybe it's more patrol agents maybe its the use of technology like cameras and drones to secure the border. Dependent on where it's at, the landscape, the traffic of illegals, etc is dependent on what type of physical security is used and implemented.

 

And of course you do that in conjunction with modernizing the VISA and guest workers programs to better track those here legally who stay beyond when they shouldn't.

 

We can also stream line and make it easier, faster and safer for the immigrants who want to stay here to be granted LEGAL access and start paying taxes and contributing to our country.

 

I see no reason why we can't or shouldn't do all those things. I'm not all that big of a fan of Bobby Jindal but he said it best a few years ago in regards to immigration. We make it easier to come here illegally and difficult to do so legally. It should be the opposite.

 

 

With all that said, Mexico isn't paying for the "wall". That is just Trump riling up the masses.

 

You are really amazing at spinning, you should teach a class.

 

Trump reveals how he would force Mexico to pay for border wall

 

 

Donald Trump says he would force Mexico to pay for a border wall as president by threatening to cut off the flow of billions of dollars in payments that immigrants send home to the country, an idea that could decimate the Mexican economy and set up an unprecedented showdown between the United States and a key regional ally.

 

In a two-page memo to The Washington Post, Trump outlined for the first time how he would seek to force Mexico to pay for his 1,000-mile border fence, which Trump has made a cornerstone of his presidential campaign and which has been repeatedly scoffed at by current and former Mexican leaders.

 

 

#notametaphor

[KSB2424 3,083]

 

You are really amazing at spinning, you should teach a class.

 

Trump reveals how he would force Mexico to pay for border wall

 

 

#notametaphor

 

I wasn't clear in my post, I was not defending Donald Trump. I was saying that historically when Republicans talked about "Building a Wall" that is more or less what they mean. Securing the border with walls and fences and agents and drones and cameras and etc. i.e. giving more attention and resources to the border.

 

Now Trump? Fock, he prolly does mean building a Great Wall of China type wall or some shiot. I don't trust nor believe or think he knows WTF he's talking about which is why I will not vote for him.

 

But the thread took a turn to discussing if "building a wall' would work at all, etc. I was more or less going down that rabbit hole.

[Mike Honcho 4,034]

 

I wasn't clear. in my post, I was not defending Donald Trump. I was saying that historically when Republicans talked about "Building a Wall" that is more or less what they mean't. Securing the border with walls and fences and agents and drones and cameras etc.

 

Now Trump? Fock, he prolly does mean building a Great Wall of China type wall or some shiot. I don't trust nor believe or think he knows WTF he's talking about which is why I will not vote for him.

 

But the thread took a turn to discussing if building a wall would work at all, etc. I was more or less going down that rabbit hole.

 

Thanks for the clear up. I was starting to worry you had developed some PTSD/shell shock thing from Trump securing the nomination.

[kutulu 1,545]

The Wall is a colossal fortification which will stretch for 1000 leagues (3000 miles) along the southern border of the once again great United States defending the realm from the rapists and drug dealers who live beyond. The Wall will reportedly be over 700 feet tall and is to be made of solid ice.

[MDC 5,891]

Are we sure Trump isn't just suggesting that Mexico pays for our border wall?

[Willis McGahee's Dentist 61]

Are we sure Trump isn't just suggesting that Mexico pays for our border wall?

That's exactly what he's suggesting. In fact, it's the number one promise of his campaign. It's going to be funny watching Mexico tell him to go f**k himself.

[parrot 789]

The Wall is a colossal fortification which will stretch for 1000 leagues (3000 miles) along the southern border of the once again great United States defending the realm from the rapists and drug dealers who live beyond. The Wall will reportedly be over 700 feet tall and is to be made of solid ice.

At least we don't have to worry about White walkers. Other colored walkers maybe, but not white.

[BufordT 371]

Why don't we use drones to help secure the border?

[wiffleball 4,640]

I honestly don't have a problem with The wall as a concept. However, As I've already stated, the idea that Mexico is going to pay for the wall is retarded. And the idea that he's going to impose a surcharge Flies right in the face of NAFTA which would end up costing the American taxpayer And much higher prices On imported goods.So the only other way to pay for the wall is with US taxpayer dollars.It is a lose-lose proposition In reality for the American taxpayer.

 

And, The concept of Forcibly Deporting 11 million People Is f****** retarded. We don't own enough buses In the entire country to accomplish that.

 

Puerto Rico is going under quickly. Forget the Mexicans, I say we turn that entire Island into a prison Colony much like Australia used to be.Mexican black Chinese white if you commit a felony , A violent felony ,Then you go to the island. Will be much easier to Keep them there Then build a f****** wall That's two thousand miles long.

 

Or Guam, I don't care.

[wiffleball 4,640]

Not to hijack the thread, but since somebody mentioned Trump greatest promise of his campaign, His greatest promise Was that he would be self-funding, Which I refuted some time ago. Article came out today that he met With the Jets owner Who will now head the Trump Victory fund Donation campaign.As I predicted, In the end, He has only loaned his money to the campaign. He will get fully refunded Via the so-called Trump Victory fund.Self-funded my ass.

[wiffleball 4,640]

I don't know why he's targeting Mexicans. Mexicans in general Are hardworking, risk their lives to be here, and are grateful for every day that they are here. Compare that to the blacktivist groups, They were forced to be here Constant remind us of that and hate every f****** minute apparently. So I would much rather spend my tax dollars shipping them back to Africa. How about a one for one trade? One black felon leaves one Mexican stays, Seems like a good trade to me. Though pro Sports would admittedly suffer.

[hoytdwow 202]

A wall will never work. People will climb over it, tunnel under it, blow a hole in it, bribe guards to let them through it, etc. Hell, people will debark in boats across the gulf and land on the Texas coast. The wall is a galactically stupid idea.

 

Illegal border crossing is not the problem. People coming legally, then overstaying their visas is the problem. People hiring illegals and not getting punished for it is the problem.

[Mike Honcho 4,034]

A wall will never work. People will climb over it, tunnel under it, blow a hole in it, bribe guards to let them through it, etc. Hell, people will debark in boats across the gulf and land on the Texas coast. The wall is a galactically stupid idea.

 

Illegal border crossing is not the problem. People coming legally, then overstaying their visas is the problem. People hiring illegals and not getting punished for it is the problem.

 

Those are white people, they are NOT THE PROBLEM!

[RLLD 3,455]

Why do we dislike hard working people? Why not embrace them, they are valuable, and we have too few of them at this time.

 

Setup a system whereby we make it easier to come in, to allow hard working people to do just that.

 

Sure you will negatively impact the entitled and overpaid, but rewarding hard work does happen if you put in time and effort.

[KSB2424 3,083]

 

Illegal border crossing is not the problem. People coming legally, then overstaying their visas is the problem. People hiring illegals and not getting punished for it is the problem.

 

They are not mutually exclusive. It's not like you have to pick one or the other. Both are a problem.

[hoytdwow 202]

 

They are not mutually exclusive. It's not like you have to pick one or the other. Both are a problem.

Thanks professor. Of course they are both problems....but illegal crossing is nowhere near enough or a problem to justify spending billions on a useless wall.

[RLLD 3,455]

Thanks professor. Of course they are both problems....but illegal crossing is nowhere near enough or a problem to justify spending billions on a useless wall.

 

Exactly. Especially when you can benefit from NOT doing it, and from allowing people who want to work .....to come in and actually work, and pay taxes on their earnings.

 

There is no perfect answer, but there are a variety of palatable ones that can bring benefit to a plurality.

[KSB2424 3,083]

Thanks professor. Of course they are both problems....but illegal crossing is nowhere near enough or a problem to justify spending billions on a useless wall.

 

See here is my problem.

 

Trump says "Just build a wall and it will fix immigration!@#!"

Hoyt says "Illegal border crossing is not the problem!@#!".

 

I'm saying you are both wrong. Illegals crossing the border is a problem, along with other issues like overstaying your VISA or Guest Worker program, and to really help the issue you must confront it all in a comprehensive plan.

 

Unfortunately all the people who believed in a comprehensive plan that included further securing the border, updating and fixing our visa program as well as giving the 12m illegals here a path to citizenship are not running anymore. So we're stuck with this crap.

[hoytdwow 202]

 

See here is my problem.

 

Trump says "Just build a wall and it will fix immigration!@#!"

Hoyt says "Illegal border crossing is not the problem!@#!".

 

I'm saying you are both wrong. Illegals crossing the border is a problem, along with other issues like overstaying your VISA or Guest Worker program, and to really help the issue you must confront it all in a comprehensive plan.

 

Unfortunately all the people who believed in a comprehensive plan that included further securing the border, updating and fixing our visa program as well as giving the 12m illegals here a path to citizenship are not running anymore. So we're stuck with this crap.

Your problem is that you are an insufferable pedant. Half of your posts are merely recapitulations of others' work using different words so you appear to be right every time.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

Your problem is that you are an insufferable pedant. Half of your posts are merely recapitulations of others' work using different words so you appear to be right every time.

You like using pedant. Just learn it?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,584]

I have no problem with first generation illegals honestly, they come here to provide a better life, and generally work hard to do it.

 

Its the 2nd generation that I have a huge issue with

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

 

Exactly. Especially when you can benefit from NOT doing it, and from allowing people who want to work .....to come in and actually work, and pay taxes on their earnings.

 

There is no perfect answer, but there are a variety of palatable ones that can bring benefit to a plurality.

How much tax do you think they would be paying? Low income people don't pay many taxes

[RLLD 3,455]

How much tax do you think they would be paying? Low income people don't pay many taxes

 

More than they pay as undocumented laborers who pay zero taxes. The point remains, there is a benefit to managing the situation rather than expending money on a wall.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

 

More than they pay as undocumented laborers who pay zero taxes. The point remains, there is a benefit to managing the situation rather than expending money on a wall.

Not really. When you factor in deductions they may be getting a check cut to them. And then if they have kids that's even less taxes. Then there's workmans comp ect. Nah, they would cost more than they would contribute. Now, if we have another stupid war and the rest of us won't send our kids to fight it, maybe something could be worked out.

[RLLD 3,455]

Not really. When you factor in deductions they may be getting a check cut to them. And then if they have kids that's even less taxes. Then there's workmans comp ect. Nah, they would cost more than they would contribute. Now, if we have another stupid war and the rest of us won't send our kids to fight it, maybe something could be worked out.

 

We can agree to disagree.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

 

More than they pay as undocumented laborers who pay zero taxes. The point remains, there is a benefit to managing the situation rather than expending money on a wall.

 

Many of the undocumented people do pay taxes. They are using fake SSN's. They pay taxes if their employer is legally employing them. The advantage is that the undocumented folks can't collect because their SSN is fake.

 

Now, going after employers who take on the undocumented people or not following the law in with-holding payroll taxes... that makes sense.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

 

Many of the undocumented people do pay taxes. They are using fake SSN's. They pay taxes if their employer is legally employing them. The advantage is that the undocumented folks can't collect because their SSN is fake.

 

Now, going after employers who take on the undocumented people or not following the law in with-holding payroll taxes... that makes sense.

True. A guy I went to high school with is a criminal defense lawyer in Texas. his clients use a different SS # when the current one they are using gets flagged. And yes, SS keeps that money. That wouldnt happen if they were legal. But if we go after the off the books guys, now their labor costs go up. Might cost you more to get your grass cut.

[wiffleball 4,640]

To add a bit of perspective, Consider Israel. They have walls all over the place And an absolutely brutal and heartless border security protocol.And, they have a whole lot less Territory to secure.And still There is a flow of Commerce And bodies That goes on and on Every single Hour of every single day.There are a dozen ways around Their protocols including tunnels And many other ways.We should talk to Israel About their experience and learn from it.

[cbfalcon 824]

 

They are not mutually exclusive. It's not like you have to pick one or the other. Both are a problem.

All math hereafter is approximate, yet 100% accurate......But it only takes 1 white dude to hire about 125 illegals per month. So we can claim both are a problem, but....

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Land mines are cheaper than a wall. Just sayin.

[KSB2424 3,083]

Poet Robert Frost said it best.

 

Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun;
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
‘Stay where you are until our backs are turned!'
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of outdoor game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, ‘Good fences make good neighbors.'
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
'Why do they make good neighbors? Isn’t it
Where there are cows? But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I’d ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offense.
Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,
That wants it down.' I could say ‘Elves’ to him,
But it’s not elves exactly, and I’d rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me,
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father’s saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, ‘Good fences make good neighbors.'

[Baker Boy 1,485]

Five years ago, the entire Senate Democratic caucus voted for hundreds of miles of fencing along the U.S.-Mexico border.

 

How times have changed.

 

Democrats are now blasting President Trump's border wall demands as “ineffective” and “unreasonable,” as they battle his initial $18 billion request.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/09/dems-change-tune-on-border-wall-after-backing-barrier-under-obama.html

[Baker Boy 1,485]

President Trump's immigration agenda is pro-Hispanic

 

The president is reforming our broken system from one that poses no serious challenge to dangerous illegal entries, to one that fosters a legal, more secure alternative. As a Hispanic woman and legal immigrant from Bolivia, I see this proposed system as significantly more pro-Hispanic and pro-immigrant than the shameful status quo.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/jarely-parada-president-trumps-immigration-agenda-is-actually-very-pro-hispanic