Best Two QB's of all time

[redtodd 7]

I don't care what anyone says. Brady and Manning are the best QB's of all time.

 

I am not going to get into a who is better of the two, but know this, they are the two best to EVER play the game.

 

I have no doubt in my mind (and yes, I did see Marino, Montana, Elway play).

[patweisers44 710]

Pennington

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

No Vince Young in the discussion?!!!!

 

 

There's people breaking out the 'Vince Young just wins games' lines again. Christ, people are ignorant if they can't see the only reason Titans are winning is Chris FOCKING Johnson.

 

IRT topic, I can't disagree red. They are truly dynamic and as a Moss owner, I'm glad to see Brady chucking the ball deep again.

[Eagles Green 34]

Young > Peyton >>>> System QB

 

[All_The_Way 0]

so you seen what 20 years of football out of 100+ years.. and that gives you enough information to make that statement

[Sho Nuff 720]

No Vince Young in the discussion?!!!!

There's people breaking out the 'Vince Young just wins games' lines again. Christ, people are ignorant if they can't see the only reason Titans are winning is Chris FOCKING Johnson.

 

IRT topic, I can't disagree red. They are truly dynamic and as a Moss owner, I'm glad to see Brady chucking the ball deep again.

 

First off...if anyone is saying VY is even close to this its hilarious.

But you are also ignorant if you think Vince Young, with the way he is playing right now, is not having an effect on Chris Johnson too. CJ was not exactly lighting everything up with Kerry Collins back there.

Face it...VY has sucked in the past. But right now is actually playing pretty darn good for him, and between Johnson opening up things for the passing game...and teams also wondering if VY will run, it is also opening up some things for Johnson.

 

On the topic...I still have Montana just barely in front of these 2 guys.

[edjr 5,754]

 

I'll wait till their careers are over to pass judgement, you should do the same.

[donhaas 18]

I thought this thread was about Bart Starr and Aaron Rodgers

[enis_44 0]

The rules governing defense as well as the general evolution of the passing game make it impossible to compare stats between generations. Therefore it would take someone like Paul Zimmerman (who unfortunately had a stroke) or the like who's been around for 50+ years of pro football to make that judgement imo. Someone who could estimate how each Qb might fair in other situations in other eras. My vote would be, whoever might excel in all eras would be the "best". I have no idea who that guy is though.

The only thing I'm positive of, is it won't be Matt Stafford......

[redtodd 7]

so you seen what 20 years of football out of 100+ years.. and that gives you enough information to make that statement

 

Yes. QB's in the past didn't have to know what these guys know. The guys in the 70's and earlier played in a league that ran it a lot more than passed it. When they did pass it, they did not have to face the crazy defenses that they have to play now.

 

No doubt in my mind, these guys are better than the Unitas-like QB's.

[TD Ryan2 315]

No doubt in my mind, these guys are better than the Unitas-like QB's.

 

 

the game is so much more advanced today from schemes, to speed and size.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I'll preface this by saying that I have nothing but respect for Brady (can't stand Belicheat at all, and can't stand the Pats for the most part, but Brady is excluded from all that). With that in mind...

 

Honestly and truthfully, Peyton Manning is among the greatest, and possibly is the GOAT. Tom Brady can't hold Mannings jock. Tom Brady is the consummate competitor and winner, but he is simply not in Peyton Mannings league as a QB. Brady wouldn't even enter the discussion were it not for Randy Moss. Peyton had better #'s in his rookie year than Brady averaged for his career BR (Before Randy). Brady won titles on the strength of his defense and when that defense deteriorated he hasn't won since and can't carry the team. If Moss were to get hurt, the Pats are a just above .500 team. Brady will make the HOF, and deservedly so, but Peyton Manning will be THE QB that all others are compared to when it's said and done.

[kmbryant09 1]

I don't care what anyone says. Brady and Manning are the best QB's of all time.

 

I am not going to get into a who is better of the two, but know this, they are the two best to EVER play the game.

 

I have no doubt in my mind (and yes, I did see Marino, Montana, Elway play).

With the way Brady's played in '07 and this year, he's playing like one of the best. I still think he needs to put up top2-3 numbers for another 3 or 4 years before he can be a top3 lock. He won championships, but hasn't put up stellar numbers before '07.

[redtodd 7]

Honestly and truthfully, Peyton Manning is among the greatest, and possibly is the GOAT. Tom Brady can't hold Mannings jock. Tom Brady is the consummate competitor and winner, but he is simply not in Peyton Mannings league as a QB. Brady wouldn't even enter the discussion were it not for Randy Moss. Peyton had better #'s in his rookie year than Brady averaged for his career BR (Before Randy). Brady won titles on the strength of his defense and when that defense deteriorated he hasn't won since and can't carry the team. If Moss were to get hurt, the Pats are a just above .500 team. Brady will make the HOF, and deservedly so, but Peyton Manning will be THE QB that all others are compared to when it's said and done.

 

[Portis26 0]

Peyton is top 5 all time, not Brady.

 

If u disagree with my Brady analysis then go and watch the Superbowls that he played in and there is obvious collusion.. Think how good Montana/Elway/Marino even Young would have been if he knew what coverage was going to roll to; or of there where 9 guys on the line of scrimmage, which guys were actually going to blitz. but with that cheating basically confirmed by tape of the Ram walk through and the taping Jets D coordinators from the stands... I can't, in food consiousness, label him as one of the greats

 

Otto Graham was probably the best and changed the game

Sonny Jurgenson also deserves mention and Elway, Montana are top 5 undoubtingly

 

I'm not trying to knock Brady, I just think he gets way to much credit when he only deserves a little

[redtodd 7]

Peyton is top 5 all time, not Brady.

 

If u disagree with my Brady analysis then go and watch the Superbowls that he played in and there is obvious collusion.. Think how good Montana/Elway/Marino even Young would have been if he knew what coverage was going to roll to; or of there where 9 guys on the line of scrimmage, which guys were actually going to blitz. but with that cheating basically confirmed by tape of the Ram walk through and the taping Jets D coordinators from the stands... I can't, in food consiousness, label him as one of the greats

 

Otto Graham was probably the best and changed the game

Sonny Jurgenson also deserves mention and Elway, Montana are top 5 undoubtingly

 

I'm not trying to knock Brady, I just think he gets way to much credit when he only deserves a little

 

If I blindly hated the Patriots, I would probably feel that way too.

[MTSkiBum 1,605]

I'll preface this by saying that I have nothing but respect for Brady (can't stand Belicheat at all, and can't stand the Pats for the most part, but Brady is excluded from all that). With that in mind...

 

Honestly and truthfully, Peyton Manning is among the greatest, and possibly is the GOAT. Tom Brady can't hold Mannings jock. Tom Brady is the consummate competitor and winner, but he is simply not in Peyton Mannings league as a QB. Brady wouldn't even enter the discussion were it not for Randy Moss. Peyton had better #'s in his rookie year than Brady averaged for his career BR (Before Randy). Brady won titles on the strength of his defense and when that defense deteriorated he hasn't won since and can't carry the team. If Moss were to get hurt, the Pats are a just above .500 team. Brady will make the HOF, and deservedly so, but Peyton Manning will be THE QB that all others are compared to when it's said and done.

 

 

My argument in the Brady-Manning debate is that if manning went down week 1, what do you think the colts record would be. I would say at best they would be looking at 6-10. Their offensive weapons and line are average at best. Manning is the Colts. However the patriots are a good enough team to go 11-5 with Brady going down.

[jgcrawfish 232]

 

Well done, good thing you're so open minded and open to opinion and not blinded by homerism or anything.

 

 

My argument in the Brady-Manning debate is that if manning went down week 1, what do you think the colts record would be. I would say at best they would be looking at 6-10. Their offensive weapons and line are average at best. Manning is the Colts. However the patriots are a good enough team to go 11-5 with Brady going down.

 

Agree completely with you here...and Cassel proved it last year and is proof it's more the system than the QB. Brady makes them a championship contender. But if the Pats are a 12-14 win team with Brady, and a 10-11 win team without him, that's not that sharp a fall off. Put Sorgi in the same position in Indy and you're right, they're lucky to be a 7 win team.

[RoadLizard 73]

First off...if anyone is saying VY is even close to this its hilarious.

But you are also ignorant if you think Vince Young, with the way he is playing right now, is not having an effect on Chris Johnson too. CJ was not exactly lighting everything up with Kerry Collins back there.

Face it...VY has sucked in the past. But right now is actually playing pretty darn good for him, and between Johnson opening up things for the passing game...and teams also wondering if VY will run, it is also opening up some things for Johnson.

 

On the topic...I still have Montana just barely in front of these 2 guys.

 

Ummm.... CJ was lighting it up with CFollins in there just as well. He would have had the same stat line against the Bills with my mother playing quarterback.

 

I figured we'd get the Vince Young BS rammed down our throats again after a few meaningless wins for the crappy Titans. Barf.

 

Oh yeah, Manning is the best ever. Sorry.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Ummm.... CJ was lighting it up with CFollins in there just as well. He would have had the same stat line against the Bills with my mother playing quarterback.

 

I figured we'd get the Vince Young BS rammed down our throats again after a few meaningless wins for the crappy Titans. Barf.

 

Oh yeah, Manning is the best ever. Sorry.

 

Other than the Houston and NE game (when the rest of the team gave up) his numbers were hardly outstanding with Collins this year).

First 6 games he had 596 yards and 2 TDs rushing...another 16 receptions for 126 and a TD.

The last 3 games? He has rushed for 495 yards averaging 6.6 per carry and 2 TDs a game...and added in 14 receptions for 136 yards.

That is quite a difference.

This is not a huge VY BS being rammed down your throat. He is playing well but not even close to in the league of those two (and it was a joke bringing him up in the first place in this thread).

But the fact remains...Johnson's numbers improved remarkably the last 3 games. Perhaps its the opponents...but the difference has been huge.

[enis_44 0]

Brady getting hurt last year did more to tarnish his "best ever" chances than anything else he could have done. When you go down week 1 and the backup Qb from USC comes in and leads your team to 10-6(?), then that just stings. Peyton is better.

 

The Pats are Bellicheat

The Colts are Manning

[SUXBNME 1,365]

Steve Young > the rest

 

I hate the focking 49ers, but in his prime, nobody compared. Mebbe Elway

[redtodd 7]

Well done, good thing you're so open minded and open to opinion and not blinded by homerism or anything.

 

You have established yourself often enough to be blind Patriot Hater, that your opinion is not really relevant. To even pretend that Brady is a system QB is either just plain and simple ignorance or your fishing. Go back to Nebie's basement where you came from.

[listen2me 23 1,586]

Don't try to sneak Brady in there with Manning after last nights game. It is like the bully that realizes there is a bigger bully, and tries to be associated and be friends with him.

 

Careers are not over, so I can't say where they rank. But in my opinion Manning has been the better QB all of his career, and will most likely go down as a better QB than Brady. Where they fall I don't know. But I can see people making a case for Manning being the best of all time after he retires, while never considering Brady as #1, but all considering him top 5.

[listen2me 23 1,586]

Brady getting hurt last year did more to tarnish his "best ever" chances than anything else he could have done. When you go down week 1 and the backup Qb from USC comes in and leads your team to 10-6(?), then that just stings. Peyton is better.

 

The Pats are Bellicheat

The Colts are Manning

 

Yea new coach, new young before the season started no namers (Collie, Garcon) and he is still putting up amazing stats and is undefeated through 9. Just another 12-14 win season for the Colts, it is becoming automatic.....or maybe already is.

[redtodd 7]

Don't try to sneak Brady in there with Manning after last nights game. It is like the bully that realizes there is a bigger bully, and tries to be associated and be friends with him.

 

Careers are not over, so I can't say where they rank. But in my opinion Manning has been the better QB all of his career, and will most likely go down as a better QB than Brady. Where they fall I don't know. But I can see people making a case for Manning being the best of all time after he retires, while never considering Brady as #1, but all considering him top 5.

 

It isn't based off of last night. I have been saying this for a bit.

 

I don't really care to argue over who is better between the two. I just think both are #1 and #2. You can figure out which one is which.

[jgcrawfish 232]

You have established yourself often enough to be blind Patriot Hater, that your opinion is not really relevant. To even pretend that Brady is a system QB is either just plain and simple ignorance or your fishing. Go back to Nebie's basement where you came from.

 

Ah, ok. See, here's the thing. I don't really dislike the Pats all that much, but my dislike for Belicheat is enough to tarnish the whole team. However, it's homer d-bags like you that bring out my ire. I admitted I'm a Brady fan. I said he's the ultimate competitor and a difference maker on that team. However, realistically, it was proven last year by Cassel that he's not missed that much. While I think that Brady would make most teams slightly better, I believe that Peyton Manning could make almost every team significantly better. Were I the coach of the Pats, I'd say give me Brady because he's in my system. Were I the coach of any other team, I take Peyton everyday, and twice on Sundays, and don't look back. Brady is Aikman without the kickass running game. Manning is Montana/Marino with a bigger arm and less weapons.

 

However, Peyton isn't my #1 just yet, but he's in the conversation. I can't yet put Brady in that echelon. He's great, but he's not that great.

[kmbryant09 1]

Ah, ok. See, here's the thing. I don't really dislike the Pats all that much, but my dislike for Belicheat is enough to tarnish the whole team. However, it's homer d-bags like you that bring out my ire. I admitted I'm a Brady fan. I said he's the ultimate competitor and a difference maker on that team. However, realistically, it was proven last year by Cassel that he's not missed that much. While I think that Brady would make most teams slightly better, I believe that Peyton Manning could make almost every team significantly better. Were I the coach of the Pats, I'd say give me Brady because he's in my system. Were I the coach of any other team, I take Peyton everyday, and twice on Sundays, and don't look back. Brady is Aikman without the kickass running game. Manning is Montana/Marino with a bigger arm and less weapons.

 

However, Peyton isn't my #1 just yet, but he's in the conversation. I can't yet put Brady in that echelon. He's great, but he's not that great.

This really was the most accurate analysis I've heard yet, nice job crawfish

[Phurfur 70]

I don't care what anyone says. Brady and Manning are the best QB's of all time.

 

I am not going to get into a who is better of the two, but know this, they are the two best to EVER play the game.

 

I have no doubt in my mind (and yes, I did see Marino, Montana, Elway play).

 

You are not qualified to make this determination because you have only seen a small portion of the great QB play.

 

React to the moment much?

[jgcrawfish 232]

This really was the most accurate analysis I've heard yet, nice job crawfish

 

Thanks, although as a Spurs fan I have a hard time accepting a compliment from anybody with Kobe in their handle, I'll take it where I can get it.

 

[NewbieJr 541]

I'll reserve judgement unti Brady wins a ring, or wins a playoff game for that matter, post-cheating scandal.

 

I'd have to think there were quite a few QBs who could win championships knowing what defensive stunts/blitzes were coming every play.

[kmbryant09 1]

Thanks, although as a Spurs fan I have a hard time accepting a compliment from anybody with Kobe in their handle, I'll take it where I can get it.

 

Rest easy my friend, the Bryant is the school that I attended, not Kobe Bryant

 

Although I'm not much of a Spurs fan

[jgcrawfish 232]

Rest easy my friend, the Bryant is the school that I attended, not Kobe Bryant

 

Although I'm not much of a Spurs fan

 

Then all is well...

[listen2me 23 1,586]

Tom Jackson put it pretty good. Manning pretty much forced BB into that choice. Not many other QBs can make opposing coaches go for it on their own 28, 4th and 2, and up by 6.

[gopkrs 0]

Someone mentioned Otto Graham. I never saw him play but his stats are incredible. But I have to go with Montana. Accuracy, cool, clock management, smart and just a winner. And Unitas would still have been a great QB today.

[do rag 0]

Manning is in the top 5, not Brady however

 

Graham, Unitas, Montana, Marino, Manning are my top 5.....Brady is probably somewhere between 12-15, only because of the rings

[JT 137]

Love these discussions, especially the part where paople blindly throw out names from the past, guys they've never seen and whose stats would get them laughed out of most discussions.

 

Been following the NFL closely for 40 years. I didn't see Otto Graham in his prime. His legacy is he was tough as nails and a winner. But a great QB? Not by the standards typically applied here.

 

Graham's career comp % = 55.8% Only twice in his career did he complete more than 60% for a season.

 

TD vs INT = 174-135

 

QB Rating = 86.6

 

By comparison, Donovan McNabb's comp % is 58.9 (career) with 4 seasons over 60%. He's thrown 206 TD vs 94 INT. 86.3 rating.

 

And I'm not cherry picking with Graham. Unitas, who I did see and idolized, completed 54.6% for his career, with a best season of 58.5% (lower than McNabb's career mark). 290 TD vs 253 INT

 

OK, today's offenses are more sophisticated, with more receivers in more patterns, more short high percentage passes, and QB's can barely be touched. But 1950's, 60's and even 70's defenses were inferior athletically and schematically to today's standards. Watch some old NFL game film. Looks like good 2009 high school ball with big guys.

 

Manning is the best I've ever seen. Size, arm strength, understanding of the game. Ability to master incredibly complex schemes on both sides of the ball. Yep, had some great WR. Also has had plenty of nothing that looked great with him at QB (Brandon Stokely, anyone?)

 

I'd have Brady in the top group, but I'd have him behind Montana for certain.

 

And did somebody actually say Sonny Jurgenson?!?!? Fat Ol' Sunny was fun to watch, a great competitor, and fantastic instincts for the game. But not within sniffing distance of the top 10.

[bob_probert_2000 1]

Pennington

MCNAIR!!!

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I'd put both in the discussion, but Peyton is easily better than Brady. This season shows it glaringly. Peyton has absolutely no running game, and only two proven pass catchers. The defense, particularly in the secondary, is playing hurt, and not very good.

 

And yet, the colts are 9-0.

 

Brady meanwhile, has a good running game, probably the best deep threat to ever play in Moss, an outstanding outlet guy in Welker, and a good defense.

 

Manning lost all his coaches this season, and goes on to put up possibly the best season of his career.

 

How do you think Brady would fare if BB left?

 

Manning is already in the top 5, and if his carreer finishes well, with another ring or two, he could become the GOAT.

 

Brady is a very one, but not quite in the same class as peyton.

[goat 0]

No Vince Young in the discussion?!!!!

There's people breaking out the 'Vince Young just wins games' lines again. Christ, people are ignorant if they can't see the only reason Titans are winning is Chris FOCKING Johnson.

 

IRT topic, I can't disagree red. They are truly dynamic and as a Moss owner, I'm glad to see Brady chucking the ball deep again.

could have swore johnson was on that team while they went 0-6 to start the yr....and for record he had a few good games stats wise during that miserable run.

 

yes chris johnson is a beast yes he is big part of why they are winning. but know this. vyoung is adding an additional threat that has to be accounted for now and is putting the ball in the receivers hands where collins wasnt for whatever reason.

 

plus the guy just seems to have winning record where ever he goes. at some point you have to give credit for that. even if you wanna call him luckiest guy on earth.