Jamaal Charles Owners?

[Dan 59]

We can agree to disagree.....

 

Maybe if Charles had some how taken over previously I would accept, but I cannot since I see the reality and the reason. After today, Charles is finally showing other pieces he was missing. During the next Chiefs game I predict a swing in the workload in favor of Charles.

 

I guess he had a setback in practices this week.

[Buttmonkey 8]

I don't think anyone questions the talent of Charles, but in the system that Haley is using he is not going to be a true #1, but instead Jones will be used for the bulk of the catches and Charles will be used for the big play. It's unfolding as I stated it would, pretty easy to spot really...

 

[Buttmonkey 8]

As I stated from the start, Jones was the better back but Charles would eventually emerge, and is nearly there.

 

Certainly if one has drafted Charles then this horrible injustice is simple unpalatable.

 

Unfortunately, the real world does not always unfold in support of our "fantasy". Charles is nearly the better RB, as I said he would eventually be. In the coming weeks you will see the carries and touches favor him as he is finally doing all of the things an NFL running back should do.

 

If talent and explosiveness alone were all it took, Lawrence Phillips would have had a nice long career....hell, if Lawrence Phillips could do more than churn out yards, Steve Young may have had a few more years.

 

It's the difference between knowing what you are talking about and wanting what you believe to be true.

 

[Buttmonkey 8]

Jamal Charles - 203 carries - 1303 yards, 6.1 yards per carry average, 4 TDs

Thomas Jones - 212 carries - 828 yards, 3.9 yards per carry average, 6 TDs

 

Wow Imagine what Charles could do if he had TJ's abilty to read blocks. JC is only averaging one of the best YPC averages in league history. Did someone say TJ was better

[mobb_deep 917]

Jamal Charles - 203 carries - 1303 yards, 6.1 yards per carry average, 4 TDs

Thomas Jones - 212 carries - 828 yards, 3.9 yards per carry average, 6 TDs

 

Wow Imagine what Charles could do if he had TJ's abilty to read blocks. JC is only averaging one of the best YPC averages in league history. Did someone say TJ was better

 

I'd love his TD's to be a bit more, but Charles is still the #8 RB in my league (.5 PPR). Ahead of Ray Rice, Turner, Mende, Sjax, etc etc (not to mention TJ @ 24th ranked).

 

Couldn't be happier about his numbers as my #2 back.

[ricanrockers 39]

Yes, I was right on Royal, the year before LJ, then there was Walker and many more....but I digress. I make my call, and time will tell....

 

Not with Charles!!

[Stewburtx8 67]

Jamal Charles - 203 carries - 1303 yards, 6.1 yards per carry average, 4 TDs

Thomas Jones - 212 carries - 828 yards, 3.9 yards per carry average, 6 TDs

 

Wow Imagine what Charles could do if he had TJ's abilty to read blocks. JC is only averaging one of the best YPC averages in league history. Did someone say TJ was better

 

 

Don't forget that Charles also has 39 receptions for 415 yards and a TD. 242 touches- 1717 yards- 7.10 yards per TOUCH By comparison, when Chris Johnson broke the record last year for total yards rushing/receiving, he averaged 6.15 yards per touch.

[p00h 85]

dont quit your day job driving limmos brah!

[travis_henrys_baby_momma 10]

It's the Kent and Buttmonkey show. This episode-- Making excuses for Jamaaaaaaaaaall. A five yard wide hole and nothing but daylight to the end zone, yet he's easily tracked down.

 

 

[RLLD 3,455]

So. lets see....I said Jones would start over Charles and he did, that Charles would eventually unseat Jones, and he did, that Charles was the better talent, but not yet the better running back....

 

 

Hmmmm, yep, hit on each one.....I think I will keep calling these each year, its fun to watch the stupid make themselves apparent.

[MDC 5,890]

Charles is much more talented. Too bad he can't read blocks.

[RLLD 3,455]

Charles is much more talented. Too bad he could not read blocks, pickup the defensive shifts or execute the plays to spec in order to setup the later plays.

 

 

Fixed......oh wait, did Charles start when i said Jones would start, oh he didn't....OK.....just checking....

[fantasymind 1]

Maybe this helps?

 

http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/HumBio_p021.shtml

[lguero1 4]

I bought Charles in an auction. Dropped him. Later traded for him. Now I'm in the Barrio Bowl. I'm a Jamaal Charles owner and I am proud.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

damn ray, you were thoroughly wrong on this topic.

 

Charles was the better back all year both numbers wise and in visual evidence. he is battling for a rushing title...

 

but i'll give you a mulligan because you were right about Eddie Royal (sort of) in 2009 (had the result but not he reasoning).

[kmbryant09 1]

damn ray, you were thoroughly wrong on this topic.

 

Charles was the better back all year both numbers wise and in visual evidence. he is battling for a rushing title...

 

but i'll give you a mulligan because you were right about Eddie Royal (sort of) in 2009 (had the result but not he reasoning).

I'd be willing to give him a redo, if only he admitted that he was wrong on this subject.

 

Instead, he's ignoring his entire pre-season arguments, twisting around his words (ignoring the point he made about T. Jones simply being the better back, and turning that into, 'T. Jones will be the starter').

 

And it's kinda funny that he's saying he predicted Charles' success, and correctly predicted that he'd become the starter....when J. Charles hasn't started a single game. I'm fairly positive that T. Jones has started EVERY SINGLE GAME, and gotten the FIRST CARRY in every single game. So what exactly does he think he got right?

[jocstrap 8]

I am pulling up Jamaal Charles' final rankings in all 3 of my leagues vs Thomas Jones

 

RB rankings/standings excluding week #17

 

League 1

Jamaal Charles # 7

Thomas Jones #22

 

league 2

Jamaal Charles #2

Thomas Jones #20

 

League 3

Jamaal Charles #6

Thomas Jones #24

 

RLLD is a stubborn fella. The facts don't lie, yet he continues to defend his statements. Then again, I don't have much respect for RLLD in fantasy football. He does however know his real estate predictions.

[De Novo 0]

And it's kinda funny that he's saying he predicted Charles' success, and correctly predicted that he'd become the starter....when J. Charles hasn't started a single game. I'm fairly positive that T. Jones has started EVERY SINGLE GAME, and gotten the FIRST CARRY in every single game. So what exactly does he think he got right?

I'm almost positive Charles has started a game.

[RSersen 0]

He started six games, according to NFL.com:

 

Week 3

Week 6

Week 8

Week 10

Week 13

Week 15

 

Still, that doesn't justify the prediction that Charles would "eventually unseat Jones" in any way, shape, or form. It's not like Charles has started the last 6 games....they've been spread out over the entire season, and basically came down to who Haley wanted to touch the ball first on any given week.

 

I "reached" for Charles earlier than most in all of my leagues. 1,835 total yards and 7 TD, I'll take that any day of the week. Basically he was the 2010 version of Ray Rice '09...yet we were all laughed at for "overvaluing" him, while those who took Rice at #4 as a "sure thing" were left with a bust.

 

I'm proud to have been one of the most vocal Charles bandwagon drivers this preseason, and I'll do it again next year, whether Thomas "the better back" Jones is still there or not.

[kmbryant09 1]

He started six games, according to NFL.com:

 

Week 3

Week 6

Week 8

Week 10

Week 13

Week 15

 

Still, that doesn't justify the prediction that Charles would "eventually unseat Jones" in any way, shape, or form. It's not like Charles has started the last 6 games....they've been spread out over the entire season, and basically came down to who Haley wanted to touch the ball first on any given week.

 

I "reached" for Charles earlier than most in all of my leagues. 1,835 total yards and 7 TD, I'll take that any day of the week. Basically he was the 2010 version of Ray Rice '09...yet we were all laughed at for "overvaluing" him, while those who took Rice at #4 as a "sure thing" were left with a bust.

 

I'm proud to have been one of the most vocal Charles bandwagon drivers this preseason, and I'll do it again next year, whether Thomas "the better back" Jones is still there or not.

What determines who gets the start? Is it the first formation? First series? First touch?

 

Nonetheless I stand corrected, but Charles still only received the first carry in 3 of those 6 games.

[cmh6476 750]

wth, you guys are realy arguing over this? The days of the 300-carry pound the rock back in KC are over fellas, at least for the time being. The Chiefs are very happy with their 2-headed monster, with the explosiveness and elusiveness of Charles and his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield, and Jones ability as a change of pace and more of a physical bruiser. They both have their roles in this offense, both will get their touches, and both provide something the other does not to what has turned into a really potent offense.

 

/end of thread

[kmbryant09 1]

wth, you guys are realy arguing over this? The days of the 300-carry pound the rock back in KC are over fellas, at least for the time being. The Chiefs are very happy with their 2-headed monster, with the explosiveness and elusiveness of Charles and his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield, and Jones ability as a change of pace and more of a physical bruiser. They both have their roles in this offense, both will get their touches, and both provide something the other does not to what has turned into a really potent offense.

 

/end of thread

Welcome to the discussion???

 

I've never complained that Jamaal Charles needs more touches to help out my fantasy team, etc. I've simply b!tched at RLLD for making the bold prediction pre-season that T. Jones is a better RB, going on & on about the things that he does better than J. Charles. he even prefaced his assessment by saying that IF HE WAS WRONG - HE'D COME BACK AND ADMIT IT. And after watching the season unfold, the disparity between Charles & Jones is quite noticeable...and even that's an understatement. The fact that RLLD won't admit that he was wrong - and even further claiming that he had predicted all of this, is just mind boggling.

 

That's the only problem I have.

[Buttmonkey 8]

wth, you guys are realy arguing over this? The days of the 300-carry pound the rock back in KC are over fellas, at least for the time being. The Chiefs are very happy with their 2-headed monster, with the explosiveness and elusiveness of Charles and his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield, and Jones ability as a change of pace and more of a physical bruiser. They both have their roles in this offense, both will get their touches, and both provide something the other does not to what has turned into a really potent offense.

 

/end of thread

 

What does Charles need that Jones has

 

All Charles did was have one of the best YPC averages in league history. Jones has never even sniffed that YPC average.

 

/end of thread

[Pavlov 0]

What does Charles need that Jones has

 

All Charles did was have one of the best YPC averages in league history. Jones has never even sniffed that YPC average.

 

/end of thread

 

The only thing I could think of as a reason to keep Charles off the field while Jones gets his carries is that people are worried about Charles wearing down as the season progresses and they want to avoid the mistakes that were made with Larry Johnson. Add 100 carries to Charles' load and the YPC comes down. Have a few 300+ carry seasons and the wheels come off. He's still amazing and a huge talent and as a Charles owner I can't say I was totally happy with how he was used this year, but I can understand the thought process.

[Boston Three Party 6]

The only thing I could think of as a reason to keep Charles off the field while Jones gets his carries is that people are worried about Charles wearing down as the season progresses and they want to avoid the mistakes that were made with Larry Johnson. Add 100 carries to Charles' load and the YPC comes down. Have a few 300+ carry seasons and the wheels come off. He's still amazing and a huge talent and as a Charles owner I can't say I was totally happy with how he was used this year, but I can understand the thought process.

 

The only thought process in this thread is the epic and infinite ownership of RAY LEWIS. That's right chump, how did your fantasy titles do this year? Oh wait....you didn't OWN CJ2.0.

 

I want to see KC take down Baltimore - but it will require JC to get 15+ touches IMHO. And Haley is such a focking loser he will crush himself before he does it. One can still hope, even outside fantasyland.

[RLLD 3,455]

I stated he would not start and he didn't

 

Just because you Charles owner have sour grapes about it isn't on me

 

What a bunch of wimmen

[RLLD 3,455]

The only thing I could think of as a reason to keep Charles off the field while Jones gets his carries is that people are worried about Charles wearing down as the season progresses and they want to avoid the mistakes that were made with Larry Johnson. Add 100 carries to Charles' load and the YPC comes down. Have a few 300+ carry seasons and the wheels come off. He's still amazing and a huge talent and as a Charles owner I can't say I was totally happy with how he was used this year, but I can understand the thought process.

 

There is much more to it.

 

Two years ago I had four running backs. One of whom was blazing fast, and was pretty sure he should be the starter, and wasn't....and was pissed. The problem with him was that his inability to execute the plays as called hurt our later play calls, rendering our scoring plays ineffective when opportunity arose. I had to play the kids who could run the offense. Further, the kid was ineffective as a blocker, and the other teams knew it, so when he would come in to the game, they had a read on the play, limiting the effectiveness.

[kmbryant09 1]

There is much more to it.

 

Two years ago I had four running backs. One of whom was blazing fast, and was pretty sure he should be the starter, and wasn't....and was pissed. The problem with him was that his inability to execute the plays as called hurt our later play calls, rendering our scoring plays ineffective when opportunity arose. I had to play the kids who could run the offense. Further, the kid was ineffective as a blocker, and the other teams knew it, so when he would come in to the game, they had a read on the play, limiting the effectiveness.

I think the real problem is your inability to execute on your word.

 

Did you or did you not state, multiple times, that Thomas Jones was a better RB than Jamaal Charles?

 

Does this help?

Circle one:

 

Yes No

[RLLD 3,455]

I think the real problem is your inability to execute on your word.

 

Did you or did you not state, multiple times, that Thomas Jones was a better RB than Jamaal Charles?

 

Does this help?

Circle one:

 

Yes No

 

Yes, I did, and this was my attempt to help you and others understand before the season began just why Jones would start over Charles. That you still pretend this did not transpire, and further attempt to ignore the contextual relationship is indicative that you still want to pretend Charles was the better back at the time, which he was not, which is why he did not "start".

 

Now.

 

Let's see if you also can do this.

 

Did I say that Jones was the better running back?

 

Yes No

 

 

 

Did I say that Charles was the better talent?

 

Yes No

 

Did I say that Charles would eventually become the stater, and ergo, the better running back?

 

Yes No

 

 

 

Who started most of the games? Eh chief??

 

Who eventually became the starter??

 

Take your time.....

 

You can be pissed I was right, and hate the reason, so I guess we can just agree to disagree on the reasoning, and you can remain pissed that Jones started just like I said he would

[kmbryant09 1]

RLLD - I've said this before, and I'll say it again - I really, really respected your opinions on this board, more so than most other posters....But this whole argument has made me lose every ounce of respect for you.

 

When was Thomas Jones the better RB? 4 years ago?

 

I mean, J. Charles was outproducing him in every shape or form ALL SEASON...It's not like he had a slightly higher ypc average, but was fumbling a lot, couldn't get the 'tough yards' on 3rd/4th short, couldn't pick up blitzes, wasn't as good as a receiver, etc.

 

So what exactly did Thomas Jones do better than Charles that made him "BETTER", as you still claim. He set up later playcalling?

[kmbryant09 1]

And I'm not pissed about anything, ya know why?

 

Cause I didn't listen to you.

 

I drafted Jamaal Charles, I won my league for the 3rd straight year, by the biggest margin in league history. I now have Jamaal Charles, Arian Foster, and Big Ben as my 3 keepers (tiered system).

 

I'm not pissed that Charles didn't get more touches. I'm not pissed that Todd Haley stuck with Thomas Jones for so long when it was painfully obvious to the entire football league that Charles was much better.

 

I'm really only upset because you can't even admit you're wrong. Your assessment of the two players was WAYYYY OFF. And you even prefaced your assessment by saying, "if I'm wrong, I'll admit that"...which leads me to wonder....Exactly what would've needed to happen for you to admit that your whole "T. Jones is better than J. Charles" assessment was wrong? Did Jones need to forget how to run? Did he need to be cut by the Chiefs, not be picked up by another team, get cut in tryouts for the CFL, only to turn up as a RB coach in college? Did J. Charles need to run for 400 yards a game for you to admit you were wrong? Did he need to average 6x the ypc that T. Jones had?

[Stewburtx8 67]

I think has put a little too much faith in Todd Haley and the Chiefs coaching staff all along. He was right that Thomas Jones would start, but his reasoning seemed flawed all along. His reasoning basically was "Thomas Jones was the Chiefs starter to start the season, therefore he must of been the better RB at the time." Because you know, why would the Chiefs not start their best players? Well maybe because Todd Haley is an arrogant SOB and didn't want to be told how to do things. Or maybe he is just an idiot. Either way, this argument shouldn't still be on going, because Jamaal Charles is clearly the better RB right now, and in most people's opinions, he always was.

[Houston Texans 10]

I stated he would not start and he didn't

 

Just because you Charles owner have sour grapes about it isn't on me

 

What a bunch of wimmen

I don't really have a stake in this, but since the FF season is over, I actually read this entire thread today, and before the season started, you posted this:

 

Pay attention kids, this is how to disagree.

 

I see your point. My perspective if derived from small things as I watch each perform.

In high school I was a tailback, and linebacker, and we had this nasty contraption we called the "chute"....it was metal paddles, four on each side that were spring-hinged.....if you followed your fullback through it properly you would be fine......if not, you were not merely hitting the paddles, you were hitting them as they sprung back on to you....it taught one the important of hitting the hole at the proper timing, and I think Jones is simply better at reading, finding and hitting the holes....JMHO

 

Let's keep an eye on it see how it unfolds. Frankly, I would like to know if I see what I think I am seeing and the only way to know is by letting it unfold.

First, let's addressed the underlined portion "JMHO." This was/is your opinion. It is based on no inside knowledge, access to coaches, or extraordinary contact with T Jones, J Charles, T Haley, or the KC Chiefs.

 

Second, I'm familiar with this type of device, although my high school did not call it the "chute," and you are absolutely correct in that it taught a RB to hit the hole correctly (although it doesn't really have much to do with timing, other than if you are following a lead blocker through it). You used this HS memory to explain how you believe that T Jones was better at reading blocks and hitting the holes correctly.

 

Finally, you go on to explain how you "would like to know if I see what I think I am seeing and the only way to know is by letting it unfold." The season is over, so it has "unfolded."

 

Please answer me this question, and I would ask you to do so without mentioning Haley, since he wasn't mentioned in this pre-season post:

 

what DID YOU SEE from this season that suggests that T Jones is better at reading blocks and hitting holes? The stats suggest otherwise, since Charles' YPC was so drastically better than Jones'.

 

I only saw 2 Chiefs' games this year (not from that TV market), and what I saw out of Jones was a RB who was rarely able to get through a hole before it closed. He may still have this ability you speak of to see the hole, but since you wanted "to know if you saw what you think you saw," how could you have seen Jones' was reading blocks and hitting holes better than Charles?

[Houston Texans 10]

No reply, Limo Driver?

 

I guess if Jones had been in on that TD run, he'd have somehow read the blocks better or hit the hole better?

 

BTW, how was Charles able to break off that run if he didn't have Jones setting that play up with about 10 plays where he read the blocks and hit the hole perfectly for 2 yards a pop?

[p00h 85]

1. dude is beasting!

2. THe limo driver round and round discussion is getting super boring. it's time to let it go. I think RLLD knows damn well he's making a fool of himself, and is going to go down with the sinking ship. Engaging him over and over only to get the same response makes you insane, by definition. Let it go...

[Houston Texans 10]

1. dude is beasting!

2. THe limo driver round and round discussion is getting super boring. it's time to let it go. I think RLLD knows damn well he's making a fool of himself, and is going to go down with the sinking ship. Engaging him over and over only to get the same response makes you insane, by definition. Let it go...

I'm not sure who this is referring to, I hope it's not me.

 

I've posted TWICE in this entire thread, and there were both in the last couple of days. The first was a legitimate question to RLLD (which he failed to respond to) asking for clarification about his position with regards to Charles/Jones. The second was today, when it has become clear that he is not going to respond to my post, because his position is indefensible.

[p00h 85]

I'm not sure who this is referring to, I hope it's not me.

 

I've posted TWICE in this entire thread, and there were both in the last couple of days. The first was a legitimate question to RLLD (which he failed to respond to) asking for clarification about his position with regards to Charles/Jones. The second was today, when it has become clear that he is not going to respond to my post, because his position is indefensible.

 

 

not engaging anyone in particular, rather everyone that keeps 'asking him questions.' He's stuck on what he's stuck on, and it's more than clear he's going to sink with the ship, as stupid as that has already made him look and will continue to make him look. So do you see any value in asking him the same questions that he's been answering stupidly??? Do you really believe there's going to be an AHAH! moment where he's going to recant everything and tell you he was wrong??? Think about it...

[kmbryant09 1]

not engaging anyone in particular, rather everyone that keeps 'asking him questions.' He's stuck on what he's stuck on, and it's more than clear he's going to sink with the ship, as stupid as that has already made him look and will continue to make him look. So do you see any value in asking him the same questions that he's been answering stupidly??? Do you really believe there's going to be an AHAH! moment where he's going to recant everything and tell you he was wrong??? Think about it...

No but it's fun to bring up. I haven't gotten sick of it.

 

And when you go back on your word as blatant as he has, I believe he deserves a little humility.