For all you "Separation of Church and State" types.

[FeelingMN 273]

To the OP, Obama is not establishing a national religion in any shape or form in that speech. He is appealing to his audience, first and foremost. They are likely mindless zealots, but zealots are voters, too (unfortunately). In any case he also mentions Judaism and Islam, so he hasn't favored any flavor of witchcraft more so than others. A shout out to Brahma and Buddha would have been nice, I'll agree.

 

 

I will say that if he made these comments at some event in the middle of bumfuck USA, then I would agree with RP. But considering the venue, I think he was just playing to the crowd.

[penultimatestraw 473]

And eventhough the 5% only earn 32% of the income they pay over 50% of the personal income tax.

It's not fair, but taxing every level commensurate with their % of income earned would be far more detrimental to lower earners IMO (plus it would screw the middle class). As MDC noted, it's not as if the poor get off scot-free.

[KSB2424 3,172]

I'm okay with a progressive tax code where the rich pay the most, the middle class pay some, and the poor pay hardly any. It's okay.

 

Some of us just find it funny that others keep spouting about how the tax code favors the rich and rich people get all the tax breaks yada yada. It's downright laughable is all.

 

Most fair minded people are perfectly fine with a discussion about making sure Income is taxed as income and not as anything esle (a loophole). We are fine with a discussion about exacly how "progressive" a tax code should be. We are fine with talking about the pro's and con's of high versus low capital gains tax rates. All that is fine and dandy.

 

What is irritating to see on TV talkshows, radio ads, left wing blogs, newspapers, and message boards like this one is either A. complete ignorance of how taxes work or B. outwright lying and manipulation of data for the sake of partisan politics (or even intraparty politics).

[MedStudent 56]

1328213696[/url]' post='4692818']

Let's go through this at your speed.

 

and what do the rich people do with their money?

 

Rich people will invest their money. Poor people will spend it. The problem we have now is a lack of demand. Companies are doing well. Stocks are up. Plenty of investors driving up stock prices. Just not enough demand to warrant hiring more people and increasing production. Put more money in the hands of the middle and lower classes and it will te spent on goods and services driving up demand.

[MedStudent 56]

1328215506[/url]' post='4692861']

It's the spending stupid! Government spending has doubled in the last decade; the rich don't have enough money to support your spending habits. Do the math; you can use a calculator if you want.

 

 

"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money," - Margaret Thatcher

 

I agree most of the balancing of the budget needs to be done with cuts. But I would not cut at this time. I would wait for the unemployment numbers to go down. We could lop off 300 billion from defense spending but that would ruin any chance of recovery and would put many Americans out of work at a bad time. Make the cuts when the economy can absorb it.

[Mungwater 601]

I agree most of the balancing of the budget needs to be done with cuts. But I would not cut at this time. I would wait for the unemployment numbers to go down. We could lop off 300 billion from defense spending but that would ruin any chance of recovery and would put many Americans out of work at a bad time. Make the cuts when the economy can absorb it.

 

With the afghani mission winding down we should be able to save some, I remember the military under Clinton, it sucked, no raises or anything, we didn't even have fuel to do exercises, we practiced in golf carts that were donated

[MedStudent 56]

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Most of the people you're talking about aren't CEO's. It's nice that fairness doesn't enter your equation though.

 

Don't really know what you're talking about re: the economy either. This won't help the economy. If anything it will hurt it.

 

Is your position that the rich should not be paying higher taxes?

[Bert 1,128]

It's not fair, but taxing every level commensurate with their % of income earned would be far more detrimental to lower earners IMO (plus it would screw the middle class). As MDC noted, it's not as if the poor get off scot-free.

I don't disagree. But I am tired of all the retards in the middle class b!tching that "the rich only pay 15% tax and I pay 25%" which is complete and utter bullsh!t. The lower and middle class of this country do not pay the tax bills the top 10% of earners pay the tax bills.

[Strike 5,975]

Is your position that the rich should not be paying higher taxes?

 

I would simplify the tax code, probably resulting in upper middle class and rich people paying more taxes but without raising the rates. IMO taxes is the least of our worries. And, even using your numbers, we barely make a dent in our fiscal problems and could be doing so at the detriment of the economy which is fragile enough as it is.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I don't disagree. But I am tired of all the retards in the middle class b!tching that "the rich only pay 15% tax and I pay 25%" which is complete and utter bullsh!t. The lower and middle class of this country do not pay the tax bills the top 10% of earners pay the tax bills.

Don't think anyone is bitching about that here. Some (Medstudent) advocate the rich paying even more, however. Personally I think we need to collect more revenue and spend less to reduce our debt. I don't expect tax changes to eliminate the debt entirely, but I also don't think increasing taxes (either through elimination of loopholes or changing the rates) on the wealthy hurts much, either. And I am in the highest income tax bracket.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

 

To the OP, Obama is not establishing a national religion in any shape or form in that speech.

 

Not a single Republican has ever advocated this either, but libtards get all butthurt anytime someone tries to put a manger scene on public property. So, how is Zero using religion as a basis to promote and sell his tax policy any different?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

And eventhough the 5% only earn 32% of the income they pay over 50% of the personal income tax.

 

Still not fair. Can't tell you what fair is, but that ain't it.

[Bert 1,128]

Don't think anyone is bitching about that here. Some (Medstudent) advocate the rich paying even more, however. Personally I think we need to collect more revenue and spend less to reduce our debt. I don't expect tax changes to eliminate the debt entirely, but I also don't think increasing taxes (either through elimination of loopholes or changing the rates) on the wealthy hurts much, either. And I am in the highest income tax bracket.

 

Call it what you want. If you think the people paying most of the income taxes in this country should pay more fine make that argument but don't make asinine statements.

 

I don't blame Romney for taking advantage of the tax code, although I think that code needs to be changed when a middle class working guy pays almost twice as high a rate as a guy worth $250 million. But I do think it's funny that a guy like Romney can pay a lower rate than a minimum wage worker, then get on stage campaigning on a platform of reducing his own taxes, and when you point out the unfairness it's called "class warfare."

 

I paid upwards of 25% of my salary in taxes last year and needless to say I didn't pull in $10 million.

[phillybear 366]

So you think the marginally rich should pay 70% of their income, just in income tax????? And that doesn't even include payroll taxes. But you really think someone making, say, a million a year, should pay 700,000 just in income tax????

 

There are counties in New York, for example, where people are paying 55% to 60% of their income towards federal, state, and local taxes. Already.

 

Under this proposed solution, they would be paying at least 70% to 75% of their income towards taxes. What incentive is there to be productive?

[MDC 7,826]

It's the spending stupid! Government spending has doubled in the last decade; the rich don’t have enough money to support your spending habits. Do the math; you can use a calculator if you want.

 

Do they have enough $$$ to pay your pension while you sit around lecturing working people on things you don't know about?

[Mungwater 601]

Do they have enough $$$ to pay your pension while you sit around lecturing working people on things you don't know about?

 

CRIPPLE FIGHT!

[Phurfur 70]

Do they have enough $$$ to pay your pension while you sit around lecturing working people on things you don't know about?

 

So it is not about the spending?

 

 

To bad most places don't offer pensions anymore, it is a sweet gig.

 

Dolce Far Niente

 

BTW: My pension is from the private sector and is very solvent. Thanks for asking.

[MDC 7,826]

So it is not about the spending?

 

 

To bad most places don't offer pensions anymore, it is a sweet gig.

 

Dolce Far Niente

 

BTW: My pension is from the private sector and is very solvent. Thanks for asking.

 

It IS about the spending. I just wonder why you don't voluntarily forego your pension if you're so worried about it? You're sort of like the poor FFT inverse of Warren Buffet that way.

 

FYI, it was your wife's teacher pension last time. You may want to get your story straight to avoid future embarrassment.

[Phurfur 70]

It IS about the spending. I just wonder why you don't voluntarily forego your pension if you're so worried about it? You're sort of like the poor FFT inverse of Warren Buffet that way.

 

FYI, it was your wife's teacher pension last time. You may want to get your story straight to avoid future embarrassment.

 

 

We both have pensions you dope and for the very slow I will repeat: My pension is from the private sector! Do you know what the private sector is?

[MDC 7,826]

We both have pensions you dope and for the very slow I will repeat: My pension is from the private sector!

 

If your pension is in the private sector, why have you repeatedly "thanked" FFTers for paying your pension?

[Phurfur 70]

If your pension is in the private sector, why have you repeatedly "thanked" FFTers for paying your pension?

 

 

SS

 

BTW: Thanks for the raise this year.

[MDC 7,826]

SS

 

BTW: Thanks for the raise this year.

 

 

The reason I stopped working was the total disregard the government had in spending my hard earned tax money. BHO had me paying for my neighbor’s mortgages and cars. He bailed out Wall Street, the Unions, and big business with my money. He gave direct cash payments to everyone on entitlement with my money. (and called them tax cuts) BHO penalized the responsible at the expense of the irresponsible. At the same time the government offered my wife a chunk of cash to retire early with full pension and medical benefits. I said enough and dropped out of the work force with her. Currently 80% of our income and our health care are coming from the government and we are making 80% of what we were making while working. Currently we are both receiving checks from the government or as it should be put the “Taxpayer”.

 

Seems to me you and your wife collect the same benefits you whine about. Somebody should go into one of those Warren Buffet threads to see if you rip him for failing to "walk the walk." That would be funny.

[jerryskids 7,053]

Has anyone pointed out that Jesus wasn't a big fan of tax collectors?

[Phurfur 70]

Seems to me you and your wife collect the same benefits you whine about. Somebody should go into one of those Warren Buffet threads to see if you rip him for failing to "walk the walk." That would be funny.

 

It is your world my friend I am just living within the rules just like Buffet, Romney and almost every other American. It is time you figured this out of yourself.

 

I'd love to chat but I have a 9:33 tee time. Dolce Far Niente

[MDC 7,826]

It is your world my friend I am just living within the rules just like Buffet, Romney and almost every other American. It is time you figured this out of yourself.

 

In other words you're a loudmouthed hypocrite and a pathological liar. Gotcha.

[nikki2200 4]

So it is not about the spending?

 

 

To bad most places don't offer pensions anymore, it is a sweet gig.

 

Dolce Far Niente

 

BTW: My pension is from the private sector and is very solvent. Thanks for asking.

 

Not this again.

 

It gets really annoying going to search your old posts every time you make up a new lie.

[nikki2200 4]

Seems to me you and your wife collect the same benefits you whine about. Somebody should go into one of those Warren Buffet threads to see if you rip him for failing to "walk the walk." That would be funny.

 

Thank you.

 

Maybe I'll go find the one where he says he's a retired war vet and that's where all his government money was coming from.

[MDC 7,826]

Thank you.

 

Maybe I'll go find the one where he says he's a retired war vet and that's where all his government money was coming from.

 

Here's the link.

 

Apparently Phur a Vietnam veteran who's married to a schoolteacher and 80% of their income is from the government benefits and pension he constantly decried on this site. Oh, and he thanks the taxpayers for the private pension he receives, presumably the 20% of his income that doesn't come from his wife's lucrative teacher pension.

 

Can anyone make sense of this?

[NewbieJr 541]

Not this again.

 

It gets really annoying going to search your old posts every time you make up a new lie.

Why bother. The guy was a birther forever. As soon as they produced his birth certificate and proved the whole movement was a joke, he suddenly claimed he wasn't a birther. He just changes his story to fit each scenerio.

 

 

But he's a wicked lyrics poster.

[MedStudent 56]

1328290118[/url]' post='4693516']

Thank you.

 

Maybe I'll go find the one where he says he's a retired war vet and that's where all his government money was coming from.

 

I thought he said he had his own business but he shut it down because of Obama. So his big private pension would just be his own money that he put aside.

[Little Rusty 19]

Why bother. The guy was a birther forever. As soon as they produced his birth certificate and proved the whole movement was a joke, he suddenly claimed he wasn't a birther. He just changes his story to fit each scenerio.

 

key word

[MDC 7,826]

I thought he said he had his own business but he shut it down because of Obama. So his big private pension would just be his own money that he put aside.

 

Who the hell calls their own retirement savings a "pension"? This guy's story has more holes than swiss cheese.

[nikki2200 4]

I thought he said he had his own business but he shut it down because of Obama. So his big private pension would just be his own money that he put aside.

 

Well I think that would make up only 20% of his current income. But yes. It was Obama's fault that he decided to leave the workforce and become a leech off of society.

[NewbieJr 541]

key word

Of course, moon landing dude

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Has anyone pointed out that Jesus wasn't a big fan of tax collectors?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Call it what you want. If you think the people paying most of the income taxes in this country should pay more fine make that argument but don't make asinine statements.

I'm not MDC; to which asinine statement of mine are you referring?

[penultimatestraw 473]

There are counties in New York, for example, where people are paying 55% to 60% of their income towards federal, state, and local taxes. Already.

 

Under this proposed solution, they would be paying at least 70% to 75% of their income towards taxes. What incentive is there to be productive?

To make money?

[Bert 1,128]

I'm not MDC; to which asinine statement of mine are you referring?

Sorry I wasn't referring to you making asinine statements. It seems every time someone on this board throws out earning stats they conveniently leave out the % of taxes paid by each earning group and make some dumb a$$ statement. MDC, who you mentioned, has been a chief offender recently.

[MDC 7,826]

Sorry I wasn't referring to you making asinine statements. It seems every time someone on this board throws out earning stats they conveniently leave out the % of taxes paid by each earning group and make some dumb a$$ statement. MDC, who you mentioned, has been a chief offender recently.

 

[Gepetto 1,448]

Has anyone pointed out that Jesus wasn't a big fan of tax collectors?

 

Not true.

 

 

http://www.bible-history.com/taxcollectors/TAXCOLLECTORSJesus_and_the_Tax_Collectors.htm

 

Jesus and the Tax Collectors

 

 

The attitude of Jesus toward the tax collectors was in stark contrast to that of the Rabbis. He had come to seek and save the lost. The Pharisees were separatists, and did not lower themselves to have anything to do with a tax collector, who was to them no better than a Gentile. But Jesus came not to condemn anyone, but to save every sinner and offer a better life. He never taught that there was anything inherently wrong with paying tribute to the Roman Government or collecting the tax. He was opposed to extortioners, but would fling open the door of repentance and salvation to them. He rejected none, not even the worst.

 

Jesus made himself a friend of men, even of the tax collectors and the worst of sinners. He set a new precedent among the Jews by accepting and associating with the tax collectors. He ate with them (Mark 2:16), He offered salvation to them (Luke 19:9), and He even chose a tax collector (Matthew) as one of His twelve disciples (Matt 9:9).

 

Luke 18:9-14 "Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

 

 

 

And this:

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+19%3A1-10&version=NIV

 

Zacchaeus the Tax Collector

1 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

 

7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”

 

8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

 

9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”