$13k Hospital Bill for 24 Hour Stay...?

[Know Doubt 0]

So a while back I caught a nasty bacteria called citrobracta(sp?).

 

First I started pooping out my guts and then 3 hours later my body decided that wasn't enough so it added vomiting them out, 2 hours after that I went to ER.

 

So they hook me up to an IV for fluids/etc and admit me after about 2 hours to the hospital.

A precaution because of my kidney disease(Membranous glomerulonephritis) they keep me over night.

 

I stay in ER and the hospital for probably 22-24 hours tops.

 

The bill came to $13k of which our insurance paid $10k but I'm freaking at the outrageous costs of that 24 hour stay when they never did anything except give me fluids, take my blood and strap a heart monitor on me.

 

So far in my findings because they won't let me see the bill is that thus far I've been treated for 'hyper tension'(high BP, what a $2 pill daily takes care of) , also 'renal failure', which I already 'had' so why charge me for it? And to that point both times my kidneys have acted up the shortest stay I had was 5 days in the hospital.

How'd these genus's fix that in 24 hours?

 

 

The staff keep emphasizing that I had a heart monitor, jeeez, do those cost that much?

 

What am I missing here?

 

The other reason they give is that my Insurance Company didn't question it so why should I?

 

Just because my 'then' Insurance isn't smart enough to question such a huge bill for a 24 hour stay doesn't mean it is correct.

 

 

 

Thx.

 

 

.

[Voltaire 4,622]

You may have been living in Britain too long to notice, but the health care system in the US is broken.

[kutulu 1,564]

It would have been cheaper to die.

[heavy-set 39]

It would have been cheaper to die.

try paying for a funeral

[phillybear 365]

The problem is that health insurance exists. If nobody was allowed to have it, the prices of medical care and medication would have to be more competitive and affordable. Health insurance is the worst thing to ever happen in the history of humanity.

[heavy-set 39]

So a while back I caught a nasty bacteria called citrobracta(sp?).

 

First I started pooping out my guts and then 3 hours later my body decided that wasn't enough so it added vomiting them out, 2 hours after that I went to ER.

 

So they hook me up to an IV for fluids/etc and admit me after about 2 hours to the hospital.

A precaution because of my kidney disease(Membranous glomerulonephritis) they keep me over night.

 

I stay in ER and the hospital for probably 22-24 hours tops.

 

The bill came to $13k of which our insurance paid $10k but I'm freaking at the outrageous costs of that 24 hour stay when they never did anything except give me fluids, take my blood and strap a heart monitor on me.

 

So far in my findings because they won't let me see the bill is that thus far I've been treated for 'hyper tension'(high BP, what a $2 pill daily takes care of) , also 'renal failure', which I already 'had' so why charge me for it? And to that point both times my kidneys have acted up the shortest stay I had was 5 days in the hospital.

How'd these genus's fix that in 24 hours?

 

 

The staff keep emphasizing that I had a heart monitor, jeeez, do those cost that much?

 

What am I missing here?

 

The other reason they give is that my Insurance Company didn't question it so why should I?

 

Just because my 'then' Insurance isn't smart enough to question such a huge bill for a 24 hour stay doesn't mean it is correct.

 

 

 

Thx.

 

 

.

 

does your insurance have a co-insurance? ie, a 20% coinsurance means you pay 20% of the bill, not counting co-pays?

 

what did you expect for a bill? and what is acceptable for you?

 

my co-pay to be admitted to a hospital is $500, but since I have no coinsurance, I would expect a bill for $500.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Tell them that you cannot pay the bill. The term is "indigent". Be willing to go on a payment plan up to the amount that you think is reasonable. They will write off the rest. You will have paid them more than 90% of the individuals that owe them money.

 

BTW- make sure that you write "fock off" in the notes of each check you send them. Hospitals are thieves.

[KSB2424 3,087]

They will write off the rest.

But whats the next step after they 'write it off'? The next step is to charge more for services to off set that write off. Then they have to 'write off' the next person. Then raise the rates to off set that write off. Over and over. Before you know it it costs 13K for a 24 hours stay.

 

That's how they get ya.

 

In other words what Voltaire said

[Know Doubt 0]

does your insurance have a co-insurance? ie, a 20% coinsurance means you pay 20% of the bill, not counting co-pays?

 

what did you expect for a bill? and what is acceptable for you?

 

my co-pay to be admitted to a hospital is $500, but since I have no coinsurance, I would expect a bill for $500.

 

 

Well, I spent 5 days and two ER visits in Fullerton for an infected kidney and it didn't come out to this much and those guys even did an MRI.

I think after all the different bills, ER, ER Dr. , ER 2nd time, ER Dr. 2nd time and then getting admitted, then two Doctors looking at me once I was admitted, then the MRI I figure we paid about $1500-$2000.

 

This place is on an AF Base here in England and it seems like they said: "Oh, you're a civilian...??? :poof!: you owe us 13k..."

 

 

WTF?

 

 

.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I say let the gubmint run healthcare. Problem solved.

[Voltaire 4,622]

My wife (and her friend that told her the story) was aghast when she had a cold and went to the hospital in the US and was billed $2000 for a hospital visit. She knew it would be expensive but wasn't prepared for that. Now, I wasn't shocked at all. I know how it goes. Healthcare costs are destroying the country.

 

In China if you get sick, you see a doctor and all costs are easily handled out of pocket. I wasn't use to that because I'm use to not going to the hospital. Ever.

 

In the US, the one time I considered going to the hospital was when I blew out my knee playing pickup football. I felt it pop and it was completly unstable and it was very obvious something serious was wrong. Still, I had no money to pay for that sh*t so I ignored it and waited to see what would happen on it's own. I hoped for the best. Fortunately, the rest of my knee ligaments eventually stabilized it and I'm nearly completly functional. But I'm missing my left MCL (still to this day a self diagnosis) and it reminds me of that every so often.

 

As for China, I've had two babies born in China and the service was extremely good. I paid for both completly out of pocket and the cost was easily afforable.

 

On the first one, the ultrasound showed concern that my wife's pregnancy may have been ectopic. My daughter had attached so close to the opening to the fallopian tube it was impossible to determine if she was in or out. As a consequence, my wife was required to stay in the hospital for a week with daily ultrasounds. Costs were low.

 

On the second baby, my wife's blood chemistry was out of whack, I don't remember the exact deficiency she had, but she took medicine regularly for months and again, we just ate the cost again of of pocket and rolled with it. Not a big deal.

 

The deliveries were both with little complications and the bill was always . It still amazes me how cheap it is to go to the hospital here whenever I go. Whereas in the US, I'd just never go. I'm lucky I guess having cockroach-like DNA such that I never get sick.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

But whats the next step after they 'write it off'? The next step is to charge more for services to off set that write off. Then they have to 'write off' the next person. Then raise the rates to off set that write off. Over and over. Before you know it it costs 13K for a 24 hours stay.

 

That's how they get ya.

 

In other words what Voltaire said

 

Which is why we need Healthcare reform. Giving people insurance only addresses the ability to pay exorbitant prices. Add in some tort reform, some price regulation, limit impact of FDA and you can cut costs.

 

In the meantime, I would not be the one stuck paying the $3k.

[KSB2424 3,087]

Which is why we need Healthcare reform. Giving people insurance only addresses the ability to pay exorbitant prices. Add in some tort reform, some price regulation, limit impact of FDA and you can cut costs.

 

In the meantime, I would not be the one stuck paying the $3k.

Well sure. I think 99% of people agree that Healthcare is broken. The arguement is over the method of how to fix it.

 

I like most of the other things you said as more things that need to be done. Its a very complex issue. I don't pretend to know all the answers.

[Little Rusty 17]

The problem is that health insurance exists. If nobody was allowed to have it, the prices of medical care and medication would have to be more competitive and affordable. Health insurance is the worst thing to ever happen in the history of humanity.

Wow,...i never thought about that before

[MedStudent 56]

You are paying for the uninsured that come to the ER and get free care. The majority of hospitals in the US are non profit. They have a lot of expenses that need to be paid. They get it from whoever they can.

 

 

[MedStudent 56]

This place is on an AF Base here in England and it seems like they said: "Oh, you're a civilian...??? :poof!: you owe us 13k..."

 

 

I didn't catch that line. I have no clue how overseas military hospitals come up with their charges to civilians.

[penultimatestraw 473]

The problem is that health insurance exists. If nobody was allowed to have it, the prices of medical care and medication would have to be more competitive and affordable. Health insurance is the worst thing to ever happen in the history of humanity.

Partially true. Insurance and billing/coding adds several layers of unnecessary complexity to the process. This, in turn, adds $$$. However the bills would still be high as doctors salaries (the OP saw at least two), nursing, hospital rooms, blood draws and medical technology cost $$$, too. In this case the heart monitor was probably unnecessary, and I bet he got a litany of tests including EKG, abdominal X-ray or CT and too many blood tests. Probably got unnecessary antibiotics, too. Some of this is to cover the MDs asses - defensive medicine in our litigious society, which is worst among ED docs.

 

The truth is, medical care is too expensive for the average person, and our system incorporates a tremendous amount of waste. If insurers were removed from the equation, people might truly question the costs of their care, and the insurers wouldn't be ignored so often as a big part of the equation. The free market will never be able to provide all these services to everyone, as business has no motive to provide an inherently expensive product (even after the fat is trimmed) to a customer who cannot afford it. We should have catastrophic insurance provided by a large entity (possibly the government) + competition from private insurers for those who can afford to pay. But people should also pay more out-of-pocket, too, to get them more actively involved in their healthcare spending.

 

As an aside, the doctor probably collected a couple hundred dollars max from his stay.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

They bill as much as they can from insurance and then hope you will send them a dime. You could probably negotiate it down quite a bit.

[penultimatestraw 473]

So far in my findings because they won't let me see the bill is that thus far I've been treated for 'hyper tension'(high BP, what a $2 pill daily takes care of) , also 'renal failure', which I already 'had' so why charge me for it? And to that point both times my kidneys have acted up the shortest stay I had was 5 days in the hospital.

How'd these genus's fix that in 24 hours?

You probably had acute worsening of your chronic renal failure from dehydration, which is readily reversible. Nonetheless, because of the way insurance/billing works, acute renal failure warrants increased charges - regardless of the underlying reason for it. It is, by definition, a medically complex problem.

[WahooJim 4]

My wife recently had a saphenous vein oblation (varicose vein treatment) at a hospital in Tulsa. Two one-hour outpatient sessions a month apart. Her doc is associated with OU Physicians group and they don't use surgical centers or do in-office procedures, so the hospital was the only option. This vascular guy was the only one in our network. The bill for the hospital alone (not including the doc's fees) was about $16,000. That's eight grand an hour.

 

She had previously checked with and made an appointment with a different vascular guy that was out of our network and his expected bill (everything including the surgeries and facilities) was about $3500. When we found out he was out of network, she cancelled with him and went to the OU Physicians dude.

 

Our out of pocket cost for the procedures was almost $5K (her individual deductible). Had we known the ridiculous costs that the hospital would pass along, we would have been better off to see the other guy and not even turn it in on insurance. It's broke alright, but I don't know how to fix it.

 

We are adamant requesters of itemizations every time a member of our family is in the hospital. Every single time, we have found things on our itemization that were wrong and have had our bills reduced. For this one, we found a bunch of doses of Fentanyl and 100 ml of Heparin on the bill, plus a bone saw and some heart stuff that she never received. Had $800 hacked off the top after a very rancorous negotiation including letters to the President of the hospital and to OU Physicians. These people are scoundrels.

 

I highly recommend that you always request an itemization for surgeries or hospitalizations. Doesn't matter if your insurance is paying or you, it all contributes to the clusterfock we are in.

[Know Doubt 0]

You probably had acute worsening of your chronic renal failure from dehydration, which is readily reversible. Nonetheless, because of the way insurance/billing works, acute renal failure warrants increased charges - regardless of the underlying reason for it. It is, by definition, a medically complex problem.

 

 

This.

 

This sucks as it's not what I want to hear here but makes the most sense.

 

 

Thx.

[Know Doubt 0]

My wife recently had a saphenous vein oblation (varicose vein treatment) at a hospital in Tulsa. Two one-hour outpatient sessions a month apart. Her doc is associated with OU Physicians group and they don't use surgical centers or do in-office procedures, so the hospital was the only option. This vascular guy was the only one in our network. The bill for the hospital alone (not including the doc's fees) was about $16,000. That's eight grand an hour.

 

She had previously checked with and made an appointment with a different vascular guy that was out of our network and his expected bill (everything including the surgeries and facilities) was about $3500. When we found out he was out of network, she cancelled with him and went to the OU Physicians dude.

 

Our out of pocket cost for the procedures was almost $5K (her individual deductible). Had we known the ridiculous costs that the hospital would pass along, we would have been better off to see the other guy and not even turn it in on insurance. It's broke alright, but I don't know how to fix it.

 

We are adamant requesters of itemizations every time a member of our family is in the hospital. Every single time, we have found things on our itemization that were wrong and have had our bills reduced. For this one, we found a bunch of doses of Fentanyl and 100 ml of Heparin on the bill, plus a bone saw and some heart stuff that she never received. Had $800 hacked off the top after a very rancorous negotiation including letters to the President of the hospital and to OU Physicians. These people are scoundrels.

 

I highly recommend that you always request an itemization for surgeries or hospitalizations. Doesn't matter if your insurance is paying or you, it all contributes to the clusterfock we are in.

 

 

 

Good stuff and good advice, thx.

 

 

.

[Know Doubt 0]

The problem is that health insurance exists. If nobody was allowed to have it, the prices of medical care and medication would have to be more competitive and affordable. Health insurance is the worst thing to ever happen in the history of humanity.

 

 

One of the smartest people I know has mentioned this too...

 

I'll have to move you up my "Smart People I Know" rankings a coupla spots just below him.

 

 

[Know Doubt 0]

Tell them that you cannot pay the bill. The term is "indigent". Be willing to go on a payment plan up to the amount that you think is reasonable. They will write off the rest. You will have paid them more than 90% of the individuals that owe them money.

 

BTW- make sure that you write "fock off" in the notes of each check you send them. Hospitals are thieves.

 

 

Well we have the $$$ but I see where you are coming from.

I'll give that a shot tomorrow.

 

Thx.

[MTSkiBum 1,605]

Sorry to hear it. Hopefully you get everything straightened out as smoothly as possible

[Chronic Husker 85]

Don't pay it. When you apply for a loan for a home or car, credit evaluators throw medical bills out the window. They know it's nonsense.

[hoytdwow 202]

On a similar note, I had to get stitches last summer while at the beach.

 

I went to the ER not realizing there was an urgent care nearby I probably could have gone to.

 

I was there for about 40 minutes, got 3 stitches. I interacted with seven (7!) different staff members at the hospital, including three separate front desk/admin types. I didn't even see a Dr. A nurse did the stitching up. But, all these people have to get paid. One of them was some lady called an "after care specialist" who told me the stitches might hurt for awhile, and to make sure I kept the wound clean. Ok!

 

I took no drugs, had no tests performed, didn't even see a Dr., like I said.

 

Cost: $600.

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

Imagine a world without financing.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

But whats the next step after they 'write it off'? The next step is to charge more for services to off set that write off. Then they have to 'write off' the next person. Then raise the rates to off set that write off. Over and over. Before you know it it costs 13K for a 24 hours stay.

 

That's how they get ya.

 

In other words what Voltaire said

 

Actually, the next step is to take a deduction for bad debt against their taxes. Then what you said. Carry on.

 

 

I say let the gubmint run healthcare. Problem solved.

 

Couldn't be much more broken that it already focking is.

 

The majority of hospitals in the US are non profit.

 

Not anymore they're not. Most of the ones here are owned by the same dooshbag (The Frist family) and make a focking fortune.

[Voltaire 4,622]

Actually, the next step is to take a deduction for bad debt against their taxes. Then what you said. Carry on.

 

 

 

 

Couldn't be much more broken that it already focking is.

 

 

 

Not anymore they're not. Most of the ones here are owned by the same dooshbag (The Frist family) and make a focking fortune.

 

Frist ... hospitals ... Tennessee ... hmmm...

[Voltaire 4,622]

The problem is that health insurance exists. If nobody was allowed to have it, the prices of medical care and medication would have to be more competitive and affordable. Health insurance is the worst thing to ever happen in the history of humanity.

 

It's the Chinese way and it's awesome. The government buys state of the art equipment to put in the hospitals. So that part is totally subsidized. We get great care with modern equipment and testing and the costs are because I make so much more than the average person around here. So it doesn't matter if we have insurance or not. You don't have to buy the expensive foreign drugs if you don't want, everybody knows the pharmacy near your house carries the identical thing as a pirated knockoff for 1/10th the cost -no prescription necessary, all over the counter. If you need more, just go back.

[windycityguy 1]

In June we discovered my wife had a tumor on her kidney. It was determined to be renal cell carcinoma.

 

We meet with a surgeon. When we told him we didn't have insurance he asked what we could afford etc. I didn't say a word and he eventually said it's a $7,500 fee for him to perform the surgery. If we paid cash up front he would take 2k, if we paid in payments over 6 months he wanted $2,500.

 

I will never again get insurance.

 

It's cheaper in the long run to negotiate and pay out of pocket. Eventually we got Loyola university to handle it all expenses paid. Had it done laparoscopically which was non invasive and cut recovery time in half. They provide a free check up every 6 months with a ultra sound and chest xrays.

[windycityguy 1]

I worked my local dentist as well. Explained that I was broke and no ins. He set me up on a payment plan. I pay reduced cost at a 2% rate. I just have to send some thing once a month. If I need new work I need 10% down. Last time I needed a root canal he did it for free.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Couldn't be much more broken that it already focking is.

 

Not anymore they're not. Most of the ones here are owned by the same dooshbag (The Frist family) and make a focking fortune.

Agreed that the system is broken. The rest of the developed world has figured out healthcare economics better than the US, and it almost invariably involves the government. But most hospitals are still not-for-profit: My link

Total Number of All U.S. Registered * Hospitals 5,754

 

Number of U.S. Community ** Hospitals 4,985

 

Number of Nongovernment Not-for-Profit Community Hospitals 2,904

 

Number of Investor-Owned (For-Profit) Community Hospitals 1,013

 

Number of State and Local Government Community Hospitals 1,068

 

Number of Federal Government Hospitals 213

 

Number of Nonfederal Psychiatric Hospitals 435

 

Number of Nonfederal Long Term Care Hospitals 111

 

Number of Hospital Units of Institutions(Prison Hospitals, College Infirmaries, Etc.) 10

[penultimatestraw 473]

In June we discovered my wife had a tumor on her kidney. It was determined to be renal cell carcinoma.

 

We meet with a surgeon. When we told him we didn't have insurance he asked what we could afford etc. I didn't say a word and he eventually said it's a $7,500 fee for him to perform the surgery. If we paid cash up front he would take 2k, if we paid in payments over 6 months he wanted $2,500.

 

I will never again get insurance.

 

It's cheaper in the long run to negotiate and pay out of pocket. Eventually we got Loyola university to handle it all expenses paid. Had it done laparoscopically which was non invasive and cut recovery time in half. They provide a free check up every 6 months with a ultra sound and chest xrays.

Doctors actually prefer this - saves them time and frustration dealing with insurers, who arbitrarily change their reimbursement rates all the time. A doctor is lucky to collect 40-50% of what he bills.

 

The insurance industry has escaped public notice for the tremendous cost/inefficiency it adds to the system. Meanwhile, doctors are portrayed as rich/greedy, when they account for only 8-10% of healthcare expenditures, but almost all of the liability. Compare doctors' salaries to those of the insurance co executives. Hospital admin are just as bad, and equally worthless.

 

Catastrophic ins + out-of-pocket for everything else is the way to go IMO.

[KSB2424 3,087]

In June we discovered my wife had a tumor on her kidney. It was determined to be renal cell carcinoma.

 

We meet with a surgeon. When we told him we didn't have insurance he asked what we could afford etc. I didn't say a word and he eventually said it's a $7,500 fee for him to perform the surgery. If we paid cash up front he would take 2k, if we paid in payments over 6 months he wanted $2,500.

 

I will never again get insurance.

 

It's cheaper in the long run to negotiate and pay out of pocket. Eventually we got Loyola university to handle it all expenses paid. Had it done laparoscopically which was non invasive and cut recovery time in half. They provide a free check up every 6 months with a ultra sound and chest xrays.

I'm 100% glad this worked for you.

 

The macro problem though is that this scenario drives up costs for everybody else.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I'm 100% glad this worked for you.

 

The macro problem though is that this scenario drives up costs for everybody else.

He negotiated his costs just as insurers do. Why is this bad for everybody else? One less sick person in the insured pool?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Gotta love the hospital's response. I wonder if I can do this when one of my customers can't pay his bill.......just add his unpaid bill to someone else and say "Hey, you are able to pay this so pay it"

 

 

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — The case of a man who was stuck with a $14,419 bill that he calls inflated and unreasonable after three days of care in a Charlotte hospital is going to be heard by the North Carolina Supreme Court.

 

The case, scheduled to be heard by the state's high court on Monday, is upsetting officials at the state's major medical centers.

 

Robert Talford argues that there should be a trial to determine whether the cost of medications was reasonable. He says the hospital, which he declined to identify, charged 24 times more for the medication than what a local pharmacy would charge.

 

"The cost was not reasonable since the difference in the charges for the medications was 24 times, 15 times and 11 times higher," Talford said in court documents. "The reasonable man could find these charges unreasonable."

 

The bill from Talford's 2007 hospital stay doesn't include another $5,556 for his room, he said.

 

The North Carolina Hospital Association and big hospital groups based in Durham, Asheville, Greensboro, Winston-Salem and Raleigh want the Supreme Court to rule against Talford and make it easy for them to collect overdue bills in court without a trial.

 

"While all patients receiving care are generally liable for payment for services they receive, the practical reality — especially in the current economy — is that hospitals do not receive payment from a significant number of their patients, many of whom have no means to pay," the hospitals said in arguments submitted to the court. "So it is imperative that hospitals are able to collect money from patients able to pay for their medical care without unreasonable barriers to hinder such efforts."

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nc-high-court-hear-case-14k-hospital-bill-150904908.html

[Old School 360]

2011- Ruptured Appendix.

Infection.

8 days in the hospital, plugged up to the antibiotics.

$68,000

 

[edjr 5,776]

In June we discovered my wife had a tumor on her kidney. It was determined to be renal cell carcinoma.

 

We meet with a surgeon. When we told him we didn't have insurance he asked what we could afford etc. I didn't say a word and he eventually said it's a $7,500 fee for him to perform the surgery. If we paid cash up front he would take 2k, if we paid in payments over 6 months he wanted $2,500.

 

I will never again get insurance.

 

It's cheaper in the long run to negotiate and pay out of pocket. Eventually we got Loyola university to handle it all expenses paid. Had it done laparoscopically which was non invasive and cut recovery time in half. They provide a free check up every 6 months with a ultra sound and chest xrays.

 

if you lived in Massachusetts when you filed your taxes you would pay a hefty penalty for not having insurance for at least 9 out of the 12 months of the year.

 

When I was doing my taxes, I purposely put in I had no insurance to see the penalty and my refund went from +180 to -600.

 

if I had no insurance I would have had to pay the state of mass 800 bucks? What the fock is that? Thank you Mitt Scumney